Why is Al Horford not considered one of the best players in the NBA by the common fan?

[username_taken]

Fantastic player, probably top 25-30 in the NBA, but top 10 is laughable.

[triple_threat]

That's because people commonly associate "best" with top-5 to top-10 and Horford is neither.

I think Horford is a top 10 player. I don't think it's debatable either. I look at the overall impact. I don't just look at the scoreboard. I actually watch and understand Basketball and understand how players play and how you can be utilized said player.

I am not one of those fans who sees a player struggling and says, well he sucks. I look at his role, his personnel grouping, his ability to fit said scheme and his ability to adjust to said scheme. I see the ENTIRE game. Not just if he can pass, rebound, shoot, has the tools. I look at everything. So when you said Al Horford, I see something different. I don't know what you see, but if you don't see what I see, that's fine but I just want you to acknowledge what I see and understand the effect it has on Millsap, Noah, Kyrie, IT and other players he's played with in the past. The man literally single-handedly made Kyle Korver an All Star. Name one player in NBA history who could do that?

Horford is indisputably a top 10 player? What are you smoking this is the same horford that gets dominated by Tristan Thompson

[ajones9219]

Horford is top 50ish player. Calling him a top 10 player is just disrespectful.

In order*

LeBron James
Kevin Durant
Russell Westbrook
Stephen Curry
Anthony Davis
Kawhi Leonard
James Harden
Giannis Antetounkompo
Kyrie Irving
Demarcus Cousins
Blake Griffin
* Isaiah Thomas
Demar Derozan
Damian Lillard
Karl Anthony Towns
John Wall
Jimmy Butler
Draymond Green
Paul George
*Carmelo Anthony
Klay Thompson
Kyle Lowry
Kemba Walker
*Joel Embiid
Chris Paul
Mike Conley
Gordon Hayward
Marc Gasol
*Andrew Wiggins
*D'Angelo Russell
*Devin Booker
Brad Beal
Nikola Jokic
Lamarcus Aldridge
Paul Milsapp
Andre Drummond
*Ben Simmons
*Eric Bledsoe
*Goran Dragic
*Dennis Schroeder
*Myles Turner
Hassan Whiteside
*Dwight Howard
Rudy Gobert
*Victor Oladipo
Deandre Jordan
*Jeff Teague
*Tobias Harris
*Khris Middleton
*Brook Lopez
Al Horford

The 17 with * are worse than him and there are a few more that are debatable (millsap for example)

How is isaiah thomas worse than horford? All those guys i mentioned are better 2nd or 3rd options than horford.

I'd star a few more myself. A few of those names being above Horford is laughable to me and tells me your scale of who is good is their ppg. Though id put it above horford

[ajones9219]

When teams play him to pass he loses a lot of his offense because he's not much of a threat to score or take over a game outside of hitting a few jumpers in a row. He's good at taking advantage of space/weak points, but he's not someone that can overwhelm a focussed defense with his talent. Sorry, intangibles and the non boxscore stuff is easier to replicate, which makes his ranking a little muddier.

I dont know man, Horford has flat out taken over a few games this year and dominated offensively. To my guy above saying Horford is top 10, I disagree. But I'd put him top 20-25 for sure

I just said he's not much of a threat. I think he had about 8 20+ppg games last year. That's just the extent of his takeover ability. I'm comparing him to a guy like Marc Gasol, who does all the same intangibles stuff but absolutely controls games with his passing and can also go for 30, and hits 20 far more frequently. If Horford is top 10, what's Gasol? I'd put Horford in that 20-30 range, too. But I'm just saying I know how he's guarded and teams don't pay much attention to him.

Cool. Ask the thunder last game or Washington in the playoffs last year if he is a threat.

[Karate Diop]

The issue with Horford is that he's incredibly soft, he won't bang with anyone around the basket and always fades when the action ramps up in big playoff games...

[ATLTimekeeper]

Cool. Ask the thunder last game or Washington in the playoffs last year if he is a threat.

Scoring 20 points once in a 7 game series is hardly threatening. And that was probably his best playoff performance ever.

Against OKC he went 8/10. 6/6 on wide open shots and 1/1 on open shots. That's sort of what I was getting at, when left wide open he can make you pay, but teams aren't worried about him as a scorer to the point where he'd shift the defense.

[jayu70]

Because he isn't.
He's a 5 tool player, a swiss army knife.
He's a jack of all trades, but master of none.
What he can do, he does well.

[UNCBlue012]

He's not one of the BEST. But, he is one of the better players at least. I thought this before he joined the Celtics.

People who say otherwise are most definitely welcome to their incorrect opinions.

[MEGAQUIB]

Because he isn’t one of the best NBA players.

[jonjames]

The 17 with * are worse than him and there are a few more that are debatable (millsap for example)

How is isaiah thomas worse than horford? All those guys i mentioned are better 2nd or 3rd options than horford.

I'd star a few more myself. A few of those names being above Horford is laughable to me and tells me your scale of who is good is their ppg. Though id put it above horford

Horford is a solid player nothing more than that. He pulls a houdini in the playoffs time and time again and his impact is nowhere close to true star. I been long time hawks fan he was overrated then and still is now.

[NY 567]

Because he's not one of the best players in the league.

[kg01]

While I agree with you this poster apparently does not and I wondered what Boston fans would say.

On this. I think Draymond is a Hall of Famer. I loves 8him. Infinitely better is a stretch however.

Al is a PF/C. Draymond is a SF/PF. They are close and do kind of the same things. Drayton D up and Al have the same kind of effect on their teams.

If Warriors traded Dray for Al, Al would make the Warriors impossible to deal with. Warriors would lose perimeter defense, but would be even more versatile on offense and better inside.

I like both of these players. BUt, like I said above, Al doesn't do anything as well as Draymond defends.

I agree with this. Both players do a lot of the little things well. Al impacts the game more than Green but Green impact on defense is as elite as an elite offensive player while being a decent offensive player as well. I have Green as a top 10 player and ahead of Al.

Man, you're really all-in on this. You remind me of this cat that used to tell us Hawks fans that Al was a better player than Karl Malone.

[jayu70]

Al is the guy you add to your team when you have 'THAT' guy. Al just isn't THAT guy.

[King Ken]

Boston is on a 14 game winning streak and his impact remains supreme for Boston.

[PhilBlackson]

Does a great job in his ROLE on a TEAM, there are many greater INDIVIDUAL talents in the league, not to mention his stats don't jump off the page either.

[King Ken]

Does a great job in his ROLE on a TEAM, there are many greater INDIVIDUAL talents in the league, not to mention his stats don't jump off the page either.

I've said it for years, people overrate individual talent. If it's not outerworldly, impact is far more valuable. Al's impact has been amazing his entire career. Like I said, him going to Boston was great for his career. He didn't have to carry mediocre talent anymore and get underrated for it. He's been the key piece in all of his squads. From UF's two titles to Atlanta's 60 win season and the last two seasons in Boston.

[711takeover]

Does a great job in his ROLE on a TEAM, there are many greater INDIVIDUAL talents in the league, not to mention his stats don't jump off the page either.

His stats kinda do jump off the page though.

15.3 PPG, 8.8 RPG, 4.5 APG, 57.6% FG, 48.8% 3PT

In playoffs last year:
15.1 PPG, 6.6 RPG, 5.4 APG, 58.4% FG, 51.9% 3PT

[PhilBlackson]

Does a great job in his ROLE on a TEAM, there are many greater INDIVIDUAL talents in the league, not to mention his stats don't jump off the page either.

His stats kinda do jump off the page though.

15.3 PPG, 8.8 RPG, 4.5 APG, 57.6% FG, 48.8% 3PT

In playoffs last year:
15.1 PPG, 6.6 RPG, 5.4 APG, 58.4% FG, 51.9% 3PT

If you're into analytics or percentages (not to discredit because Al has always been good but a lot of that is also a product of the team and system) sure it's wonderful.....but sorry 15ppg and 8.8rpg hardly jump off the page. There are plenty of players that have put up just the raw production of 15 and 8, that's what doesn't stand out.

Rhyme off the stats of some of the other top big men like Anthony Davis (25/11), Kristaps (28.9/7.3), Giannis (30/10) etc those are numbers that do!! The discussion is also about the CASUAL FAN, 15/8 won't stand out to them to being any more than a role player which imo Al kinda is a very high impact one....don't get me wrong he's an all-star but there's levels to it and the names I mentioned were superstars and those are the kinds of players that considered the best by the casual fan and they are. Terrifying to think how damn good any of the players *ahem* Anthony Davis, would look on a TEAM and in a SYSTEM like the Celtics that knows how to play to a player's strengths.

Sorry Al has been VERY good this season but he isn't one of the best which I believe the discussion is based on the top 10-15 players which the casual fan would know and consider as such.

[MartinToVaught]

I feel bad for Horford. The media is trying so hard to promote Kyrie that Horford's actual leadership of the Celtics has been ignored.

[711takeover]

Does a great job in his ROLE on a TEAM, there are many greater INDIVIDUAL talents in the league, not to mention his stats don't jump off the page either.

His stats kinda do jump off the page though.

15.3 PPG, 8.8 RPG, 4.5 APG, 57.6% FG, 48.8% 3PT

In playoffs last year:
15.1 PPG, 6.6 RPG, 5.4 APG, 58.4% FG, 51.9% 3PT

If you're into analytics or percentages (not to discredit because Al has always been good but a lot of that is also a product of the team and system) sure it's wonderful.....but sorry 15ppg and 8.8rpg hardly jump off the page.

Rhyme off the stats of some of the other top big men like Anthony Davis (25/11), Kristaps (28.9/7.3), Giannis (30/10) etc those are numbers that do!! The discussion is also about the CASUAL FAN, 15/8 won't stand out to them to being any more than a role player which imo Al kinda is a very high impact one....don't get me wrong he's an all-star but there's levels to it and the names I mentioned were superstars and those are the kinds of players that considered the best by the casual fan and they are. Terrifying to think how damn good any of the players *ahem* Anthony Davis, would look on a TEAM and in a SYSTEM like the Celtics that knows how to play to a player's strengths.

Sorry Al has been VERY good this season but he isn't one of the best which I believe the discussion is based on the top 10-15 players which the casual fan would know and consider as such.

I never said he's one of the best players in the league or even close to top 15. His efficiency and stats make the Celtics a winning team and he does so much that doesn't show up in the box score. It's no coincidence the Celtics have taken the next step with him and IT4 and Bradley had career years playing with him. The fact that you're comparing AD to Horford is ridiculous because 10/10 I would rather have AD bro what.