What exactly makes Tatum more talked about/ranked higher than Pascal Siakim?

[Klayforspicy]

People were expecting Tatum to be improving by leaps and bounds, but thats not the case. Partly due to over projection, and partly due to his situation in Boston.

I would say Siakim is a more productive player right now. That can change by next season however.

[MrPerfect1]

The direct answer is that Tatum had his profile breakout during a playoff run in which his team pulled off 2 upsets and almost had one of the most improbable Finals runs ever. That was more about the Celtics team defense and their execution on offense, but Tatum was the best player in many of the key quarters of those games so he got his profile upped quite a bit. We saw him showing out when it mattered and when teams could plan against him, and we haven't seen that from Siakim yet (but maybe will this PO).

The Celtics did not pull off 2 upsets. They were clearly favored Round 1 vs MIL.

As for Tatum, he has more hype since he went to Duke, was the #2 pick, and plays in a Big Market.

[Lalouie]

Isn't Pascal factually the better player and better all around?

only thing I can think of is age and shot creating abilities (pascal is still more efficient)

he went to duke

[ballup]

Let's say Tatum has a decade of building up basketball skills over Siakam. What makes people think Siakam can make up for that gap, let alone what Tatum may improve in the future, in 6 years? Tatum had the freedom as a kid to hone his step backs, pull ups, turnarounds, fadeaways, and dribble moves. Yes Siakam has the benefit of professional training, but limited time due to games, team practices, travel, personal time, events associated with being an NBA player.

You can't expect a player to continuously have astronomical improvements Siakam has every offseason. Progression isn't linear and a diminishing returns effect happens.

Now this isn't to say Tatum is guaranteed to figure it out himself. He has gone on both sides of the Jeff Green-Andrew Wiggins shot selection spectrum.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

[LBJKB24MJ23]

age, potential, are always factors. in a sport where physicality and skillset are prized in both regards, age is always something to be talked about. down the line in 4-5 years, people rather have Tatum (~25) vs Siakam (~29) if he meets expectations like Siakam did (siakam obviously blew past his expectations and is looking more and more like a future all star) - if Irving left, I think Tatum can be an all star but right now, expectations have been tempered because he hasn't taken that next step as a player (stunted/blocked by his current teammates)

but there is no doubt who the better basketball player is right now: its Siakam.

[OakleyDokely]

Isn't Pascal factually the better player and better all around?

only thing I can think of is age and shot creating abilities (pascal is still more efficient)

Even if Tatum isnt better, he isnt far off. Statistically they score the exact same amount...pascal gets less then 1 more rebound per game and less then 1 more assist per game. basically:

Tatum 16/6/2
Pascal 16/7/3

Pascal 55/37/79 on 63 TS% and 19 PER
Tatum 46/38/86 on 57 TS% and 16 PER

Pascal is more efficient, but Tatum creates more of his own offense.

I dont think any of that is really different enough to offset that Tatum is 4-5 years younger with more growth and higher ceiling (i know i know siakim has only been playing ball for a few years, etc...)

You're only looking at the offensive side of things though (Siakam has similar raw stats with better efficiency)

Siakam is a very good passer and ballhandler. He can defend multiple positions from wings to bigs. He's one of the best players in transition. The only thing lacking right now in Siakam's game is a midrange jumper.

Tatum has the age factor and the potential for improvement on Siakam. Tatum might eventually get to (or pass) Siakam's level, but Siakam is the better player right now and could be the better player for the foreseeable future.

[KGtabake]

Age, trade value and playoffs performance.
I would say talent as well but this is just my opinion.

[Quattro]

I don't think either of these guys is a finished product yet. Let's talk about this in 2 or 3 years.

[CoachD]

People have this weird idea that youth = regular / linear growth.

How many guys have we seen that showed a TON of potential in their first couple of years and never got past that point? The answer is most

No, we understand that players peak athletically at a younger age than most people realize. This is a problem for someone's peak...you don't keep recovering like a 20 year old at 30. You can with skills and development expend that prime into your early 30's but that's extremely rare.

There are examples of players that don't have a lot of miles on their body playing well into their early 30s.

Even still.

Siakam is 24, not 29. If he has 6 years playing at THIS level, he's a super-valuable player. If he continues to improve just a little each year, he will be a 4-5 time all star, and a guy who is one of the best in the league at impacting wins.

I remember when Dion Waiters was a kid in Cleveland, and Cavs fans would yell that he was averaging 15 ppg as a second year player, and it was OBVIOUS he was going to be better than Demar, Butler etc because he was only a 2nd year player. All of those fans said if you had to choose between them, you'd choose Waiters because he's already so dynamic and only 20 or 21 years old. Fast forward a bunch of years, and he's never evolved past that point. He's exactly the same guy with even MORE tunnel vision. Waiters playing into his 30s at a high level isn't a concern, because he will likely not even be in the league.

[Myth]

Boston is on national tv more so people see Tatum more.

Also the Kawhi story in Toronto overshadows the story of Pascal's development.

[Double Helix]

This all raises an interesting idea about upside. Malcom Gladwell would likely tell you that not yet reaching your 10,000+ hours at working at any one skill is a bigger indicator or upside between two men whose age gap is only 4 years when neither is likely to change a ton physically from here.

The fact is that a big reason why Siakam has improved to the degree he has is because he came to the sport so late. He was a soccer prospect who grew and didn’t even play 5 on 5 seriously until he was 17. He was drafted only 4 years after that point.

Stop and think about that. Imagine learning about a sport and just beginning to play it seriously and then 4 years later you are facing pros. Thats what he did but being around pros and skill development coaches made him realize there’s so much more to the game and he’s taken to everything they throw at him. The guy is just a natural and now he’s even making 3s at a good clip.

Had Siakam discovered basketball at age 10 and played in the states in the AAU setup he could have been a top 2 pick by the time he was 19.

He was just way behind in skill development.

[lilswift01]

Siakam is truly a special player. I just don't see how tatum will be a better player unless he starts dropping 30 a game as a 1st option on a winning team. Pascal is the much better athlete, defender, rebounder, passer, iso scorer, motor...only thing tatum can do is shoot better.

Sent from my LG-H933 using RealGM mobile app

[PlatinumState]

I feel like people drank the Tatum juice too much last season.

[Double Helix]

I think part of it is looks that helps Tatum to be honest. Male fans don’t want to admit it but when their prospects look like guys they can imagine in commercials physically due to their looks they tend to boost their support of the player more. The prospects in the league that are more traditionally good-looking always tend to be more popular in comparison to the more average looking dudes. For a long time I’ve heard stuff like “He just has the looks of a Star.” I remember when people used to say the same thing of Rudy Gay when he was young.

Most male fans won’t admit they’re influenced by it but all sports fans want to imagine their prospects becoming the next big thing and Tatum has a look to him that’s easier to advertise than someone like Siakam.

If Kris Middleton’s game somehow transferred to Chandler Parsons body he’d be way more popular than Middleton is. If Paul Milsap’s game had somehow transferred into Tristan Thompson’s body Thompson would have been a megastar bigger than Milsap for reasons unrelated to the Kardashians. It’s just how people are.

[dhsilv2]

People have this weird idea that youth = regular / linear growth.

How many guys have we seen that showed a TON of potential in their first couple of years and never got past that point? The answer is most

No, we understand that players peak athletically at a younger age than most people realize. This is a problem for someone's peak...you don't keep recovering like a 20 year old at 30. You can with skills and development expend that prime into your early 30's but that's extremely rare.

There are examples of players that don't have a lot of miles on their body playing well into their early 30s.

Even still.

Siakam is 24, not 29. If he has 6 years playing at THIS level, he's a super-valuable player. If he continues to improve just a little each year, he will be a 4-5 time all star, and a guy who is one of the best in the league at impacting wins.

I remember when Dion Waiters was a kid in Cleveland, and Cavs fans would yell that he was averaging 15 ppg as a second year player, and it was OBVIOUS he was going to be better than Demar, Butler etc because he was only a 2nd year player. All of those fans said if you had to choose between them, you'd choose Waiters because he's already so dynamic and only 20 or 21 years old. Fast forward a bunch of years, and he's never evolved past that point. He's exactly the same guy with even MORE tunnel vision. Waiters playing into his 30s at a high level isn't a concern, because he will likely not even be in the league.

We're talking potential here. We all know that no player is a sure thing to keep improving. But after 26, athletic ability flatlines or declines (unless someone is out of shape). This creates a very real cap on how much upside is left to be tapped into. That's why Tatum gets more hype, he's got a lot longer till we expect to see an athletic decline.

[dhsilv2]

I think part of it is looks that helps Tatum to be honest. Male fans don’t want to admit it but when their prospects look like guys they can imagine in commercials physically due to their looks they tend to boost their support of the player more. The prospects in the league that are more traditionally good-looking always tend to be more popular in comparison to the more average looking dudes. For a long time I’ve heard stuff like “He just has the looks of a Star.” I remember when people used to say the same thing of Rudy Gay when he was young.

Most male fans won’t admit they’re influenced by it but all sports fans want to imagine their prospects becoming the next big thing and Tatum has a look to him that’s easier to advertise than someone like Siakam.

If Kris Middleton’s game somehow transferred to Chandler Parsons he’d be way more popular than Middleton is. It’s just how people are.

Siakim is way more jacked...so I'm not following the looks thing. Siakim would be way better in a male forward action flick. Tatum would be the guy Siakim was shooting.

[Double Helix]

I think part of it is looks that helps Tatum to be honest. Male fans don’t want to admit it but when their prospects look like guys they can imagine in commercials physically due to their looks they tend to boost their support of the player more. The prospects in the league that are more traditionally good-looking always tend to be more popular in comparison to the more average looking dudes. For a long time I’ve heard stuff like “He just has the looks of a Star.” I remember when people used to say the same thing of Rudy Gay when he was young.

Most male fans won’t admit they’re influenced by it but all sports fans want to imagine their prospects becoming the next big thing and Tatum has a look to him that’s easier to advertise than someone like Siakam.

If Kris Middleton’s game somehow transferred to Chandler Parsons he’d be way more popular than Middleton is. It’s just how people are.

Siakim is way more jacked...so I'm not following the looks thing. Siakim would be way better in a male forward action flick. Tatum would be the guy Siakim was shooting.

Also, don’t forget the prejudicial element that Shaq dropped on national TV at the all star game about about Stephen Curry. There’s truly some resentment in black America over a perception that lighter-skinned black Americans seem to perceived separately and more favorably in many ways including popularity in movies, music and on TV.

Tatum looks like someone Disney would cast. Pascal does not. And this can influence bias in people perceive Star power without even realizing it.

All of this stuff adds up. It’s not the main reason obviously. It may only be a small tiny reason but it contributes on a subconscious level toward how fans view players and star potential. Tatum was seen by some as a future face of the league in part, but obviously not limited to, the fact that he “looks the part” to a lot of people.

If Aminu had Giannis game would he be seen as the face of the sport the way Giannis is?

[Karate Diop]

So let me get this straight... Because Tatum has a more advanced skillset at a younger age... He has less room to improve and develop further?

Doesn't that seem... Backwards?

It's basically trying to argue that if Tatum wasn't as polished / didn't have as many skills as he currently has he'd have more "upside"... Crazy.

[KG Leonard]

The direct answer is that Tatum had his profile breakout during a playoff run in which his team pulled off 2 upsets and almost had one of the most improbable Finals runs ever. That was more about the Celtics team defense and their execution on offense, but Tatum was the best player in many of the key quarters of those games so he got his profile upped quite a bit. We saw him showing out when it mattered and when teams could plan against him, and we haven't seen that from Siakim yet (but maybe will this PO).

People tend to forget that when they start to dismiss his potential,talent in Boston team who is a letdown. Stop overrating regular season play for both Pascal(good season), Tatum( uneven).

When Pascal is this good,destroying Philly,Boston with all his quality that's when he will get more respect,hype. Tatum was the first offensive weapon in playoffs beating top teams. Don't forget that. If Raptors disappoint in playoffs again Pascal great RS won't be remember as much.

Skickat från min SM-N950F via Tapatalk

[Double Helix]

So let me get this straight... Because Tatum has a more advanced skillset at a younger age... He has less room to improve and develop further?

Doesn't that seem... Backwards?

It's basically trying to argue that if Tatum wasn't as polished / didn't have as many skills as he currently has he'd have more "upside"... Crazy.

I don’t think anyone was saying that. It’s more that Siakam didn’t get the coaching at a young age or the 10,000 hours theory at a young age so he has more that he can add (and has).