MJ VS LEBRON VS WHOEVER THREAD

[Sgt Major]

Is there a non-legendary story about Michael? I've never heard one, everything about him is unbelievable.

[bballgod07]

There is only one Player that is named LeCHOKE. And that aint Michael Jordan. Lechoke and Goat doesnt go together.

[chuck_wagon44]

He would be 6/8 if they played Houston in 94 and 95. That's a fact.

[chuck_wagon44]

asterisk rings, ducked hakeem at his peak.

Finally some true analysis.

Agreed.

[Xherdan 23]

LeBron is great. No question about it, but if we are going to play this game then let’s stop talking about how he dragged a team that didn’t deserve it to the NBA finals. He played in the Eastern conference during it’s weakest era. Later on he benefited by joining forces with his two biggest conference rivals and benefited from an elite Bulls team being destroyed by Rose’s injury.

Also what blatant disrespect to Magic Johnson/Worthy, Drexler/Porter, Barkley/KJ, Kemp/Payton, and Malone/Stockton. None of those teams were as good as the Warriors but Jordan bulldozed through hall of famers to get his rings.

I'm not sure the East in the '90s was any stronger than it was in the 00's or 10's, and if it was it's certainly not by much.

[J-Wolves]

He would be 6/8 if they played Houston in 94 and 95. That's a fact.

Couldnt get past Shaq and Hardaway in 95

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199505180CHI.html

[otwok]

Why is there so many GOAT/Jordan posts? Did something happen that I am not aware about?

[batmana]

Only after that summer when he said I got this is when they won, and people gotta stop downplaying the mavs that year, swept a back2back champ, beat the spurs, then okc in 5. Give them credit too.

That Dallas team didn't play the Spurs in the playoffs, if I start a topic, at least I'd refresh my memory on the facts.

I won't even debate on the topic because you aren't looking for a discussion, you simply believe your beliefs should be universal.

LeBron, stacking the deck in his favor by joining Wade and Bosh, had absolutely no business of losing to the Mavs. He didn't just lose, he got embarrassed. That's why 2011 can never be erased from history, no matter how many titles he wins.

Sent from my Redmi Note 7 using RealGM mobile app

[Xherdan 23]

News flash, Jordan didn’t play 6 years in the nba. People gotta stop using this 6/6 in their arguments. Just because you didn’t make the finals doesn’t mean you DIDNT lose. 6/15 is his actual record and even that being said can you have worse finals competition ? We leaving 6/6 in the last decade. This is the 1 argument people have for Jordan over bron and it’s expired. Lemme know when Jordan carries a team to the finals that has no business being there. I’m open to someone changing my mind about Lebron >jordan with a real argument. Until then lebron the goat and it’s not even close.

all the arguments have been stated.
there's only just a repackaging of the arguments.

but to your point,,,that's why neither mj nor lebron are the goats

I feel you, what I was tryna get outta this topic was a real one to one with a die hard jordan fan with no emotion/nostalgia and just facts/stats why they came to their conclusion. I Definitely could’ve scrolled through the board and what not but I felt for rebuttals and open conversation it would’ve been better for me to just create a post.

I'm not a die hard Jordan fan but I can try:
The reason MJ has a great argument for GOAT is because he scores consistently and efficiently.
I believe that this is the most important factor for playoff success and it's more valuable than being an all around player who can elevate bad teams to good but doesn't exactly make good teams great. Also, he has been a no show in the past and that takes away from his consistency IMO. He's also been great sometimes but I feel Jordan has been more reliable in his career.

It's not a huge gap between them either way but there is definitely a good argument for MJ that isn't based on "rangzzz" or nostalgia.

[ellobo]

Russell is my #1 in the GOAT rankings, for a variety of reasons. The big one that's perhaps least discussed is how radically he changed the game. Leaving your feet to defend was thought of as wrong, and he defied conventional wisdom (including his own coach).

It's actually laughable how 2000's fans repeat "no one cared about effiency" when Russell clearly did and planned accordingly. When someone from the 50's solves analytics, you only have yourself to blame.

In one of Russell's books, he talks about how he and KC Jones did calculations to answer the question, "If you are late running out to contest a jump shot (so you are contesting from a distance), when is it better to jump toward the shooter with your arm high and when is it better to jump straight up and extend your arm at an angle toward the shooter. He didn't include the actual calculations or all the specific parameters they considered, but they concluded that jumping straight up and extending the arm forward gets you closer to the release point (and reduces the risk of fouling).

I can't really judge the validity of the conclusion, but the point is how analytical his thinking was and how much he paid attention to detail in his approach to the game.

[OfficialRef]

asterisk rings, ducked hakeem at his peak.

Maybe he should have been a cupcake coward like lebron, and had Hakeem join the bulls for 5 more rings in a row! Too bad he isnt a coward, and is a competitor

maybe he shoudn't have gambled so hard and got his father killed

[Danny1616]

Okay so Jordan is 6/15 and Lebron is 3/17?

You tried to discredit Jordan and I get what your saying but he still has a way higher percentage of winning championships, lol.

Jordan won the championship in 40% of the time he played while Lebron has won in 18% of the time played.

Ummmm...good logic, thanks for validating why Jordan is the GOAT.

[so_bored]

Man, these star worshiping kids are out in full force lately. Hate to break it to you kids, but all these idol worshiping is worthless and waste of time. You'll learn when you grow older. Stop wasting time defending your idols, world doesn't change or care one bit about your opinion.

[tondi123]

Why do Lebron fanboys keep starting threads about MJ? It reeks of desperation since if their guy really was the GOAT they wouldn't need to spend their days trying to tear down the legacy of other players.

[drchaos]

Magic, Kareem, and Worthy beat the Larry Bird Celtics team twice even with four hall of famers on it.

[Sgt Major]

MJ transcends the status of an icon, star, superstar, whatever. The guy is simply the god of basketball and that's about it.

[The Rebel]

Yeah, playing against expansion teams like 1993 Miami Heat made Bulls much harder to win title...

Do you penalize everybody that has played since 1993? There are still the same number of teams so it is not like the dilution of talent has changed.

I don't penalize anyone, I just don't think playing one more round against bad team changes much.

BTW, talent pool is bigger today than it used to be due to international players.

are you trying to say there werent international players in the 90s?

By the way the talent pool is smaller 35% less kids play sports than they did in the 80s, making it considerably smaller.

[The Rebel]

LeBron doesn't belong to this group of GOATs. They have like twice MVPs and rings.

The funniest thing to me is that Lebron fans deep down all know he doesn't belong which is why they are constantly trying to find another argument that they can try to use.

Why are you so insecure?

Here's Lebron's argument:

-> possible GOAT peak
-> Potentially valuable career
-> GOAT prime

Here's jordan's argument
-> possible GOAT peak

One player has multiple venues of argumentation, the other has one. Jordan's case vs Lebron is based on something he can't claim close to goathood in. Russell and Kareem were unquestionably greater winners. That's just reality.

I'd expect a former mod to have better comping mechanisms.

Reality is making up fake qualifications, just like the entire premiss if this thread is why we all know that you Lebron stans have no argument, but keep proving my point for me.

[And1+2]

Just a reminder that Patrick McCaw is 3-0 in the last three years, and could easily surpass all of them when it's all said and done.

[1993Playoffs]

All the 80s legends were old once MJ reached his prime. I feel MJ has the weakest comp amongst the goat candidates