Who are the good 1 on 1 Defenders MJ faced?

[LKN]

LBJ has "torched" teams with Jason Kidd, Shawn Marion, Tyson Chandler and many NBA greats in the regular season also - so why would Michael Jordan going off against Shawn Marion in the RS mean anything? (if that even happened)

Jason Kidd wasn't playing defense in 2011? Okay, well, you clearly are just going off of narratives if you think that is true because that is hilariously incorrect. Jason Kidd was still one of the best defensive guards. You are just saying he was bad because he was older and not considered a superstar anymore - but the idea that Jason Kidd wasn't playing defense is just....what exactly do you think he was doing?


Olajuwon and Robinson were not in the same conference as Michael Jordan. Jordan never played Zo in a playoff series. Mutumbo only had one series against Michael Jordan and Michael Jordan didn't score well. The only center you listed there that Jordan had any history with was Patrick Ewing, and the Knicks lost because Ewing mediocre offensive help, they defended the Bulls quite well. On top of that, what does any of them have to do with Tyson Chandler? They are better defenders yes, that doesn't mean Tyson Chandler was not a great defender.

That is not to mention that none of those players played on the same team at the same time and were not coached by Rich Carslile so I don't know what relevance that has. Zone defense isn't one vs one defense either, and the Mavericks used zone to stop the Heat.


It seems like people here are not aware that 1 vs 1 defense and team defense are two different things. Shawn Marion isn't even famous for being a 1 vs 1 defender, so even if Jordan did torch him (which my guess is that you looked up that Jordan had high PPG against the Suns, which is not the same thing as him scoring on Marion at will) it doesn't say anything about who is the better 1 vs 1 guy.


Zone defense is not 1 vs 1 defense.



On top of that, we are basically over analyzing one series that happened in LBJ's career that will likely last 20 seasons of all-nba play and deep post season runs. That seems rather silly.

Wait what"? MJ faced Mourning 3 different times in the playoffs.

FFS

They placed twice. I did forget because the Hornets were a crappy defensive team and one of those season was 1995 where Jordan just came back.

They played 3 times:

1995
1996
1997

He also played against Shaq twice as well.

Your entire premise that "he only faced Ewing" was based on you being too lazy to click on basketball reference and you just making s**t up.

Do better.

[prolific passer]

LBJ has "torched" teams with Jason Kidd, Shawn Marion, Tyson Chandler and many NBA greats in the regular season also - so why would Michael Jordan going off against Shawn Marion in the RS mean anything? (if that even happened)

Jason Kidd wasn't playing defense in 2011? Okay, well, you clearly are just going off of narratives if you think that is true because that is hilariously incorrect. Jason Kidd was still one of the best defensive guards. You are just saying he was bad because he was older and not considered a superstar anymore - but the idea that Jason Kidd wasn't playing defense is just....what exactly do you think he was doing?


Olajuwon and Robinson were not in the same conference as Michael Jordan. Jordan never played Zo in a playoff series. Mutumbo only had one series against Michael Jordan and Michael Jordan didn't score well. The only center you listed there that Jordan had any history with was Patrick Ewing, and the Knicks lost because Ewing mediocre offensive help, they defended the Bulls quite well. On top of that, what does any of them have to do with Tyson Chandler? They are better defenders yes, that doesn't mean Tyson Chandler was not a great defender.

That is not to mention that none of those players played on the same team at the same time and were not coached by Rich Carslile so I don't know what relevance that has. Zone defense isn't one vs one defense either, and the Mavericks used zone to stop the Heat.


It seems like people here are not aware that 1 vs 1 defense and team defense are two different things. Shawn Marion isn't even famous for being a 1 vs 1 defender, so even if Jordan did torch him (which my guess is that you looked up that Jordan had high PPG against the Suns, which is not the same thing as him scoring on Marion at will) it doesn't say anything about who is the better 1 vs 1 guy.


Zone defense is not 1 vs 1 defense.



On top of that, we are basically over analyzing one series that happened in LBJ's career that will likely last 20 seasons of all-nba play and deep post season runs. That seems rather silly.

Wait what"? MJ faced Mourning 3 different times in the playoffs.

FFS

They placed twice.

I did forget because the Hornets were a crappy defensive team and one of those season was 1995 where Jordan just came back.

95, 96, and 97.
Jordan faced 3 hof centers in the 96 playoffs and another all star big who could have been a hofer if it wasn't for his off the court the problems in Shawn Kemp who took to Hakeem better than anybody during Hakeem's prime from 93-97.

[nzahir]

Never heard of "the Jordan Rules"

You're acting like MJ didn't get fts for taking those fouls, he did

If you want to talk about someone not getting calls, go watch Lebron for the past 5 years

The pistons were a very good team D and they beat MJ 3 times in a row. They started to get a bit older and the bulls became better

But in the 90s, MJ didn't have to face too many tough defenders on the perimeter if I am being honest

If I'm being honest. Lebron not going to the line is a good thing because he can't make them anyway.

Yes, not going to the line>getting to the line

SMFH

You do realize 74% vs 84% (lebron vs MJ career wise) isn't a huge difference right?

If MJ was to shoot 10 fts and Lebron was to shoot 10 fts, MJ would make 8-9 and Lebron would make 7-8

(.74)(2 fta)=1.48ppp, so yes, I do think Lebron getting his ft calls would help

[ssang]

MJ was oversized and an outlier athlete at his position. He always had a physical matchup at his position because you couldn't really defend Pippen with a 4 or a 2. Again more of the reason Jordan never won without Pippen and Pippen was able to win without Jordan.

Washington Jordan failed to make the playoffs. Houston and Portland Pippen continued to make the playoffs.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

Nothing like revisionist history, completely ignoring context, cherry picking a narrative one wants to believe in his own head, from someone who was no more than a twinkle in his father's eye at the time any of the things he speculates on even occurred.

And what the hell of value did Scottie really win without Jordan, post-Bulls? Now we're moving the goal posts to talk up playoff appears with a Rockets squad that made it to the 2nd round sporting he, Hakeem and Barkley...and the outrageously deep, loaded up Blazers teams he took part in? And we're now making this worthless, asinine comparison to what a 300 year old Jordan did with a mediocre Wizards squad several years later? This is what it's come to? Sad and desperate. Pathetic.

Why am I even dignifying this with a response?

Whatever, I'll keep going anyway.

And Jordan's Wizard's years, really? You're gonna hold that against him? When he was 38-40 years old and three years retired at the time he came back and still dropped 20+ as an old man on a highly mediocre roster. All the while when he could've stayed retired already as the greatest player to have ever laced 'em up, after having absolutely nothing left to prove, only coming back to ball cause he still had the competitive itch and knew he could still be an effective ball player even as a 3 year retired geriatric old man, with no more than a shot or two of juice left in the tank.

It's one thing to not have been around during the time things happened, but to then go on and educate yourself on the game's rich history (obviously not something you did; and apparently not many others either). But it's entirely another to have not lived through a period of basketball, only to be be stupid and lazy, and speak of things of that time confidently as fact, when in actuality nothing could be further from the truth.

Is it the Twitters that's made so many people so damn stupid this day and age? Is it Trump? Is it the lockdown and the absence of live sports? Beats me. All I know is, whatever the f**k it is, it's fascinating.

[prolific passer]

You're acting like MJ didn't get fts for taking those fouls, he did

If you want to talk about someone not getting calls, go watch Lebron for the past 5 years

The pistons were a very good team D and they beat MJ 3 times in a row. They started to get a bit older and the bulls became better

But in the 90s, MJ didn't have to face too many tough defenders on the perimeter if I am being honest

If I'm being honest. Lebron not going to the line is a good thing because he can't make them anyway.

Yes, not going to the line>getting to the line

SMFH

You do realize 74% vs 84% (lebron vs MJ career wise) isn't a huge difference right?

If MJ was to shoot 10 fts and Lebron was to shoot 10 fts, MJ would make 8-9 and Lebron would make 7-8

(.74)(2 fta)=1.48ppp, so yes, I do think Lebron getting his ft calls would help

Well. He sure does need the practice.

[HeartBreakKid]

Wait what"? MJ faced Mourning 3 different times in the playoffs.

FFS

They placed twice. I did forget because the Hornets were a crappy defensive team and one of those season was 1995 where Jordan just came back.

They played 3 times:

1995
1996
1997

He also played against Shaq twice as well.

Your entire premise that "he only faced Ewing" was based on you being too lazy to click on basketball reference and you just making s**t up.

Do better.

Wow, you are so incredibly bias (I mean you literally have a Michael Jordan avatar so I guess it's expected) it's almost sad.

You just acknowledged that I made that entire post off of my memory. And out of all the details I got right, you think that because you went on basketball reference that that means that I am an idiot? Like, the guy I responded too said Jason Kidd was a poor defender in 2011, that didn't catch your attention, but the Alonzo Mournin thing did? Could you be anymore bias?

What does Shaq have to do with anything? I mean...some of you guys who are going crazy over Jordan are actually pathetic. Like you guys are just mentioning anything so Jordan>James, my first post in the entire thread was a comparison of Iguodalla and John Starks, I never have even said James was a better scorer than Jordan - but literally every reply someone brings up something random like...Shaq??


Are you reaching? You must be - you must be implying that I am saying Michael Jordan never played any great centers because they were not in the same conference, which is why you mentioned Shaq. Hakeem Olajuwon and David Robinson did not play a playoff series against Michael Jordan, and he had a medicore series for his standards against Mutumbo - so the argument that Jordan went up against all these great centers and destroyed them is indeed exaggerated (and largely irrelevant to James performance vs the Mavericks on top of that, as Tyson Chandler doesn't have to be as good as Hakeem Olajuwon). Are you disagreeing and saying that he did go up against the Spurs and the Rockets? If so, what exactly are you arguing about?

The Knicks and Hawks did defend Jordan well, so I don't know why we are harping on this. The Bulls were an elite defense and offensive team. The Hawks and Knicks had poor offenses, that is the primary reason why they would lose, what does that have to do with their defensive centers?







Michael Jordan is a better scorer than Lebron James. So what exactly are you upset about that you want me to admit? Should I lie and exaggerate that Michael Jordan dominated Hakeem Olajuwon, or pretend that LBJ was locked down by JJ Barrea? Some of you guys need to learn how to argue rationally, these guys aren't our dads, you can concede some points and still be right.

[LKN]

You're acting like MJ didn't get fts for taking those fouls, he did

If you want to talk about someone not getting calls, go watch Lebron for the past 5 years

The pistons were a very good team D and they beat MJ 3 times in a row. They started to get a bit older and the bulls became better

But in the 90s, MJ didn't have to face too many tough defenders on the perimeter if I am being honest

If I'm being honest. Lebron not going to the line is a good thing because he can't make them anyway.

Yes, not going to the line>getting to the line

SMFH

You do realize 74% vs 84% (lebron vs MJ career wise) isn't a huge difference right?

If MJ was to shoot 10 fts and Lebron was to shoot 10 fts, MJ would make 8-9 and Lebron would make 7-8

(.74)(2 fta)=1.48ppp, so yes, I do think Lebron getting his ft calls would help

A 10% different in FT% is absolutely gigantic.

Where do these crazy takes come from?

I guess there's not much difference between a 35% 3PFG% and a 40% 3FPG%.

I mean that's only 1.5 more points every 10 shots.

[LKN]

They placed twice. I did forget because the Hornets were a crappy defensive team and one of those season was 1995 where Jordan just came back.

They played 3 times:

1995
1996
1997

He also played against Shaq twice as well.

Your entire premise that "he only faced Ewing" was based on you being too lazy to click on basketball reference and you just making s**t up.

Do better.

Wow, you are so incredibly bias (I mean you literally have a Michael Jordan avatar so I guess it's expected) it's almost sad.

You just acknowledged that I made that entire post off of my memory. And out of all the details I got right, you think that because you went on basketball reference that that means that I am an idiot? Like, the guy I responded too said Jason Kidd was a poor defender in 2011, that didn't catch your attention, but the Alonzo Mournin thing did? Could you be anymore bias?

What does Shaq have to do with anything? I mean...some of you guys who are going crazy over Jordan are actually pathetic. Like you guys are just mentioning anything so Jordan>James, my first post in the entire thread was a comparison of Iguodalla and John Starks, I never have even said James was a better scorer than Jordan - but literally every reply someone brings up something random like...Shaq??


Are you reaching? You must be - you must be implying that I am saying Michael Jordan never played any great centers because they were not in the same conference, which is why you mentioned Shaq. Hakeem Olajuwon and David Robinson did not play a playoff series against Michael Jordan, and he had a medicore series for his standards against Mutumbo - so the argument that Jordan went up against all these great centers is indeed exaggerated. Are you disagreeing and saying that he did go up against the Spurs and the Rockets? If so, what exactly are you arguing about?

The Knicks and Hawks did defend Jordan well, so I don't know why we are harping on this. The Bulls were an elite defense and offensive team. The Hawks and Knicks had poor offenses, that is the primary reason why they would lose, what does that have to do with their defensive centers?







Michael Jordan is a better scorer than Lebron James. So what exactly are you upset about that you want me to admit? Should I lie and exaggerate that Michael Jordan dominated Hakeem Olajuwon, or pretend that LBJ was locked down by JJ Barrea? Some of you guys need to learn how to argue rationally, these guys aren't our dads, you can concede some points and still be right.

Meh - deleted.... these threads get everyone too worked up.

It's just basketball - cheers!

[Lockdown504090]

John Starks is nowhere near Andre Iguodalla as a defender. If Starks is quicker it isn't enough to make up for the length disadvantage. Taller players don't need to be as fast to cover as much ground - and strength matters a ton for defense.

The quickest players in the league are not the best defenders...much stronger correlation with arm length than quickness in regards to being an elite defender (and Iggy has very, very long arms).

which lockdown defender was he going against when he averaged 18 a game against dallas?

He faced a well coached team that orchestrated a zone based defensive scheme that consisted of Jason Kidd, Shawn Marion and Tyson Chandler (the three most important defensive positions). LBJ was hardly ever guarded 1 vs 1 in that series - as that would be an idiotic thing to do. Rick Carlisle is not an idiot.

Other than that - your statement is largely irrelevant to my post. Actually, it is entirely irrelevant. Andre Iguodalla being a better defender than John Starks and LBJ having a bad series against The Mavericks are two entirely different topics, and it shows that you have some type of personal bias just the fact that you randomly brought it up (Basically shows you just want to "win" an argument that makes LBJ look bad or perhaps makes MJ look good for the sake of).

Everyone has a personal bias, bringing up mine doesnt change that. ur premise is also a little weird because you are talking about size differences when you are talking about the guy who has never had an issue with the size of anyone on the basketball court 1-5. Lebron has been the strongest dude on the court in most of the games hes played in his entire life.

Ill use 220 for mjs weight for arguments sake and ill use lebron at 250.

Jordan 6'6 220 John starks 6'3 180 +3 height, +40 weight
Lebron 6'9 250 Kawhi 6'7 230 +2 height +20 weight

Jordan 6'6 220 Byron Russel 6'7 225 -1 height -5 weight
Lebron 6'9 250 Iggy 6'6 215 +3 height + 35 weight

My point was simply that individual defense isnt the end all be all. Detroit was kicking jordans ass with the guys you mentioned. Payton had the most success on him and he was "undersized" as well lebron should have treated the defenders you named the same way jordan treated his. Also you cant really put a bigger guy on michael, because of his off ball movement, those guys you're asking for may not be able to chase him around which results in higher PPP shots than jumpers out of the post. same thing as the warriors wouldnt put kawhi on curry because hes too fast off the ball, but they would put him on lebron, because its easier to stay in front of him.

[In SVG We Trust]

This guy lockdown is comparing height and weight as a measurement of being athletic. Are you serious?

Also, someone who thinks LeBron, Kobe, Duncan and some others didn't face a so much better defenders than Jordan really needs to grow up. Guys it's not 1996 anymore, sorry if you're not happy as you used to be, but stop idolizing your youth to face the reality.

[LKN]

This guy lockdown is comparing height and weight as a measurement of being athletic. Are you serious?

Also, someone who thinks LeBron, Kobe, Duncan and some others didn't face a so much better defenders than Jordan really needs to grow up. Guys it's not 1996 anymore, sorry if you're not happy as you used to be, but stop idolizing your youth to face the reality.

Imagine if MJ had actually played against Kobe and Duncan. Imagine if that had actually happened.... alas, I guess we'll never know

[In SVG We Trust]

This guy lockdown is comparing height and weight as a measurement of being athletic. Are you serious?

Also, someone who thinks LeBron, Kobe, Duncan and some others didn't face a so much better defenders than Jordan really needs to grow up. Guys it's not 1996 anymore, sorry if you're not happy as you used to be, but stop idolizing your youth to face the reality.

Imagine if MJ had actually played against Kobe and Duncan. Imagine if that had actually happened.... alas, I guess we'll never know

Imagine LeBron retires this year and I talk about how he had to face the great Zion Williamson.

Duncan was drafted in 1997, Kobe in 1996. Kobe was a 15ppg player in 98. Man I'm not gonna argue with you anymore, you don't respect yourself, not a little bit.

I hope you don't think vaccines are gonna control our minds and that the earth is flat.

[LKN]

This guy lockdown is comparing height and weight as a measurement of being athletic. Are you serious?

Also, someone who thinks LeBron, Kobe, Duncan and some others didn't face a so much better defenders than Jordan really needs to grow up. Guys it's not 1996 anymore, sorry if you're not happy as you used to be, but stop idolizing your youth to face the reality.

Imagine if MJ had actually played against Kobe and Duncan. Imagine if that had actually happened.... alas, I guess we'll never know

Imagine LeBron retires this year and I talk about how he had to face the great Zion Williamson.

Duncan was drafted in 1997, Kobe in 1996. Kobe was a 15ppg player in 98. Man I'm not gonna argue with you anymore, you don't respect yourself, not a little bit.

I hope you don't think vaccines are gonna control our minds and that the earth is flat.

What will actually happen is that kids in 20 years are going to claim that "LBJ would never be able to handle Zion's athleticism" and when you try to call BS on them they are going to use the exact arguments you are using now against you.

FWIW, Duncan was the damn finals MVP the year after MJ retired... unlike Kobe he was basically in his prime from day 1

[nzahir]

If I'm being honest. Lebron not going to the line is a good thing because he can't make them anyway.

Yes, not going to the line>getting to the line

SMFH

You do realize 74% vs 84% (lebron vs MJ career wise) isn't a huge difference right?

If MJ was to shoot 10 fts and Lebron was to shoot 10 fts, MJ would make 8-9 and Lebron would make 7-8

(.74)(2 fta)=1.48ppp, so yes, I do think Lebron getting his ft calls would help

A 10% different in FT% is absolutely gigantic.

Where do these crazy takes come from?

I guess there's not much difference between a 35% 3PFG% and a 40% 3FPG%.

I mean that's only 1.5 more points every 10 shots.

So 1 extra point when taking 10 fts a game (MJ or Bron aint taking much more on avg) is the huge difference? Might be valuable in a certain big time situation, but it isn't the biggest thing in the grand scheme of an entire game

[mademan]

I don’t mind mj being called the goat cause he did dominate his competition in ways no one else has. I have no idea why it’s hard for people to admit it was poor competition especially on perimeter. The defence talent in the league today is miles ahead

[Antinomy]

This guy lockdown is comparing height and weight as a measurement of being athletic. Are you serious?

Also, someone who thinks LeBron, Kobe, Duncan and some others didn't face a so much better defenders than Jordan really needs to grow up. Guys it's not 1996 anymore, sorry if you're not happy as you used to be, but stop idolizing your youth to face the reality.

They’re really running in circles to compare Starks & Bryon Russell to Andre Iguodala & Kawhi Leonard. You can’t make this stuff up.

[HypeMode]

I don’t mind mj being called the goat cause he did dominate his competition in ways no one else has. I have no idea why it’s hard for people to admit it was poor competition especially on perimeter. The defence talent in the league today is miles ahead

Exactly. MJ can be the GOAT at the same time while facing subpar perimeter defenders. They are not exclusive concepts.

The posters on this thread truly believe that scoring against John Starks is as difficult as facing Kawhi Leonard.

Michael Jordan was an amazing offensive player but I believe that he would have work harder for his points if he had to face Tony Allen, Kobe Bryant, Tayshaun Prince, and Bruce Bowen. Those guys are bigger, more athletic, and have better defensive instincts the perimeter defenders he was facing off against in the finals.

[DavidSterned]

I don’t mind mj being called the goat cause he did dominate his competition in ways no one else has. I have no idea why it’s hard for people to admit it was poor competition especially on perimeter. The defence talent in the league today is miles ahead

Exactly. MJ can be the GOAT at the same time while facing subpar perimeter defenders. They are not exclusive concepts.

The posters on this thread truly believe that scoring against John Starks is as difficult as facing Kawhi Leonard.

Michael Jordan was an amazing offensive player but I believe that he would have work harder for his points if he had to face Tony Allen, Kobe Bryant, Tayshaun Prince, and Bruce Bowen. Those guys are bigger, more athletic, and have better defensive instincts the perimeter defenders he was facing off against in the finals.

Tell us again why you think Byron Scott, Clyde Drexler, Dan Majerle, Gary Payton, and Bryon Russell were unathletic and/or had poor defensive instincts? Because that literally describes none of them

[Sark]

He also faced Stacey Augmon (6-8, 205), and Steve Smith (6-7, 200) in the playoffs. Why are they not listed?

[LKN]

I don’t mind mj being called the goat cause he did dominate his competition in ways no one else has. I have no idea why it’s hard for people to admit it was poor competition especially on perimeter. The defence talent in the league today is miles ahead

Exactly. MJ can be the GOAT at the same time while facing subpar perimeter defenders. They are not exclusive concepts.

The posters on this thread truly believe that scoring against John Starks is as difficult as facing Kawhi Leonard.

Michael Jordan was an amazing offensive player but I believe that he would have work harder for his points if he had to face Tony Allen, Kobe Bryant, Tayshaun Prince, and Bruce Bowen. Those guys are bigger, more athletic, and have better defensive instincts the perimeter defenders he was facing off against in the finals.

Amazing fact of the day - MJ played again Kobe and Bruce Bowen while he was still on the Bulls. Bowen was actually 26 then.

I know you clowns are just trolling - but you aren't even good at it. Jesus.... at least work in some comedy or something