LeBron is by far the greatest close out game player in NBA history

[UnbelievablyRAW]

AD himself says Lebron is the best in the league yet fans keep trying to push this narrative that Lebron isn’t better than Davis lmao

[Homer38]

The record of Jordan in his career without the great Scottie Pippen is also awful.

[Jedzz]

People are getting uncomfortable with his continued success.

In my thinking it doesn't have anything to do with continued success.
It has to do with the Media that won't stop focusing every waking minute they can on him, in conjunction with some of the things Lebron himself keeps saying.

What's the recent quote? Something about comparing himself or his life to Sinatra now? Sing us a tune Lebron. "Your way"

Even last year when he and his team were irrelavant, they still talked about him endlessly on TV and Radio talkshows for complete shows and hours on end. It doesn't change win or lose. The guy is a great player. We get it. But he's not always the best player that day. People could give his name a rest now and then when they should.

Media does what sells. That's why Kawhi and Giannis(the best players in the game, pre-conference semis) were getting the afternoon games and Lebron only ever got the prime time slots.

That doesn't mean that the media or the general NBA folklore always sing his praises. Barring 2-3 dudes, who can sometimes be foolishly starstruck, most media members have made careers out of unfairly criticizing Lebron and only finding shifting narratives to discredit him so they have a contradictorian point of view and Lebron's pic/video in their shows.

I'm assuming you already saw the coaches poll for best player and team most likely to win it all this season. Ffs, the Mavs got a vote in there, but Lebron couldn't, despite clearly being the 2nd / 3rd favourite team(following Clips, Bucks) since the beginning.

So don't use that excuse for your hate. It's only robbed him of several MVPs so far.

You have plenty of false statements in there. That mass majority of media are positive speakers about players. Meaning they will rarely focus on any players negatives for long. And they do not focus on Lebrons negatives either. The few that have always made their careers focusing on the negatives and creating arguments to create a name for themselves do so about every topic, not just him. But when they all are willing to talk about him endlessly, those people do their thing endlessly about him then.

Media does what sells.

This is a fairy tale. They do what they want. They seem to endlessly do what is easy and copy each other. They wake up, hear the news from others and their day script is already written and they don't have to do any work at all.

Fans of other teams don't want to hear about him and his team all the time. There are 29 other teams, each one with 15 roster spots, and their fan populations that care to hear about their teams more. Even in the playoffs that he's involved in, there are other players that other team fans know nothing about. This is the chance to discuss them and make them known to others as well. So it doesn't explain why so much of their time needs to be discussing him. Just stop. Report what he accomplished like anyone else and then leave it there and move on.

[Jedzz]

The record of Jordan in his career without the great Scottie Pippen is also awful.

This isn't singles tennis. The discussion is sickoning, but carryon.

[Homer38]

The record of Jordan in his career without the great Scottie Pippen is also awful.

This isn't singles tennis. The discussion is sickoning, but carryon.

I know

It was just in response to JordanBulls who said that LBJ had missed the playoffs in 2019...

[Cookies4Life]

Well he's played for a very long time so those stats don't surprise me one bit.

I'd still take prime Jordan over him 100 out of 100 times in a closeout game.

Some of the posts regarding Jordan make me realize how young this forum is. If you actually watched him play in his absolute prime, you'd know there's no discussion between the 2. TO me Lebron is similar to Hank Aaron, a great player that had a very long career and was excellent throughout.

Jordan is more similar to a Babe Ruth sticking with that metaphor.

[KrazyP]

MJ said himself he was exhausted even before the 1993 postseason was over (the reason why he needed almost 2yrs off) and that was just after playing 7 consecutive seasons. We're suppose to believe his legs and mind could last for 8 straight Finals appearances??

No chance.

He was mentally exhausted from his father's passing in 1993 and subsequent BS stories from the media about it. Thats different from being physically exhausted from the playing the game itself.

Also, Jordan was the type of player who when exhausted, found ways to elevate his game......see his 38 pt outburst while dealing with the flu and playing 44 of 48 mins in game 5 of the 1997 finals.

Lebron and Jordan are both great players. Anybody who thinks Lebron is the clear cut greatest is a fool and probably didnt watch Jordan play.

Isn't Mike the GOAT of Mental Toughness / Killer Instinct / 'The Dog in Him' debates. It's funny how Mike blames his Baseball adventure and the Glove shut down and basically every time he passed gas in public on his dad's passing and still gets to play the mental toughness card.

He wasn't the first player to lose someone in the family. Some of them never had a dad in their lives. Some have lost their family during the season. IT's sister's loss during the 2017 Celtics playoff run comes to mind. That's what mental fortitude / toughness looks like, not retiring whenever you get overwhelmed.

Pick one narrative ffs.

There's a difference between coping with the loss of a loved one in private vs coping with the loss of a loved in the international spotlight with people blaming you for the death.

FFS? If you cant see the uniqueness of the situation Jordan faced, I dont really know what to tell you.

[JoeyLightYears]

Well he's played for a very long time so those stats don't surprise me one bit.

I'd still take prime Jordan over him 100 out of 100 times in a closeout game.

Some of the posts regarding Jordan make me realize how young this forum is. If you actually watched him play in his absolute prime, you'd know there's no discussion between the 2. TO me Lebron is similar to Hank Aaron, a great player that had a very long career and was excellent throughout.

Jordan is more similar to a Babe Ruth sticking with that metaphor.

This is nostalgia speaking. MJ took a lot of heat when he was winning MVPs and regularly being booted by the Pistons. This is actually the version of MJ that might have been his peak-- but his team and coach wasn't as good. It was remarkably similar to what young LeBron went through.

[lazybatman]

He was mentally exhausted from his father's passing in 1993 and subsequent BS stories from the media about it. Thats different from being physically exhausted from the playing the game itself.

Also, Jordan was the type of player who when exhausted, found ways to elevate his game......see his 38 pt outburst while dealing with the flu and playing 44 of 48 mins in game 5 of the 1997 finals.

Lebron and Jordan are both great players. Anybody who thinks Lebron is the clear cut greatest is a fool and probably didnt watch Jordan play.

Isn't Mike the GOAT of Mental Toughness / Killer Instinct / 'The Dog in Him' debates. It's funny how Mike blames his Baseball adventure and the Glove shut down and basically every time he passed gas in public on his dad's passing and still gets to play the mental toughness card.

He wasn't the first player to lose someone in the family. Some of them never had a dad in their lives. Some have lost their family during the season. IT's sister's loss during the 2017 Celtics playoff run comes to mind. That's what mental fortitude / toughness looks like, not retiring whenever you get overwhelmed.

Pick one narrative ffs.

There's a difference between coping with the loss of a loved one in private vs coping with the loss of a loved in the international spotlight with people blaming you for the death.

FFS? If you cant see the uniqueness of the situation Jordan faced, I dont really know what to tell you.

I do see the uniqueness of it the first time when he retired to pursue baseball, although I don't buy the reason. But, how was the GP shutdown connected to his father. Why did he retire the second time? FFS, go on explain that to me.

It's like Lebron saying that Kawhi and Iggy did nothing to stop him in the 2014 and 2015 finals, it was just him getting lost in his feelings about the Mavs 2011 series. Would y'all buy that BS?

Mike's was a great basketball player, but as a person he's an vengeful, insecure liar.

[JoeyLightYears]

Mike's was a great basketball player, but as a person he's an vengeful, insecure liar.

Yes, it's amazing to see all of the blind worship for this guy when he was a class-A ****. All you need to do is listen to his HOF speech to see what a vindictive prick he was.

[Prophet_tt]

Please. To everyone trying to excuse Lebron's greatness. Go right now, look yourself in the mirror and conduct yourself better. Excuses waste time. They allow you to be irresponsible for your actions. Lebron like everyone in this thread isn't perfect. If you expect him to be then you are really saying how much you respect him because you think you should be God like. Please. These excuses are disgusting. Your comments are lol worthy and I'm just shaking my head at the toxicity I am seeing. The man has been to EVERY finals for the last 9 years that he has made the playoffs. He's performed bad 1 time in 10 years (twice if you want to count last year). Appreciate that. Some of y'all commenting couldn't even hold a minimum wage job for ten years much less perform at a high level. Jesus. Just look yourself in the mirror and stop the bs excuses. I feel bad for you I truly do, human to human. If y'all are trolling though.. Keep up the great work! I did not expect this tonight.. He SNAPPED in the 4 haha! Great game!

the thread title is saying that he's the greatest close out player. Its not about excusing his greatness its about putting him where he belongs which isn't at the top. He will always be a player who has needed a super-team to succeed. He himself doesn't believe in his ability that's why he needs these people.

And who in your opinion has won without a super team. Has he ever played on a team better than the 90s Bulls.

So Lebron had to do a little bit of the GM's job also. More credit to him then.

He's a write off, different type of thinker clearly. Since there is no way to sway him, or he judges the game based off of different metrics, I will just let him be.

[KrazyP]

Isn't Mike the GOAT of Mental Toughness / Killer Instinct / 'The Dog in Him' debates. It's funny how Mike blames his Baseball adventure and the Glove shut down and basically every time he passed gas in public on his dad's passing and still gets to play the mental toughness card.

He wasn't the first player to lose someone in the family. Some of them never had a dad in their lives. Some have lost their family during the season. IT's sister's loss during the 2017 Celtics playoff run comes to mind. That's what mental fortitude / toughness looks like, not retiring whenever you get overwhelmed.

Pick one narrative ffs.

There's a difference between coping with the loss of a loved one in private vs coping with the loss of a loved in the international spotlight with people blaming you for the death.

FFS? If you cant see the uniqueness of the situation Jordan faced, I dont really know what to tell you.

I do see the uniqueness of it the first time when he retired to pursue baseball, although I don't buy the reason. But, how was the GP shutdown connected to his father. Why did he retire the second time? FFS, go on explain that to me.

The second time was an odd situation. Krause had decided in advance of the end of the season he was going to blow up the team even though it was still good. Perhaps Jordan could have been like Lebron and just teamed up with some all-stars elsewhere but back in those days stars wanted to beat other stars, not team up with them.

With all that said, your general point is still absurd....saying Jordan lacks mental toughness because he retired in his mid30s after 6 championships is a bit of a reach.

[lazybatman]

There's a difference between coping with the loss of a loved one in private vs coping with the loss of a loved in the international spotlight with people blaming you for the death.

FFS? If you cant see the uniqueness of the situation Jordan faced, I dont really know what to tell you.

I do see the uniqueness of it the first time when he retired to pursue baseball, although I don't buy the reason. But, how was the GP shutdown connected to his father. Why did he retire the second time? FFS, go on explain that to me.

The second time was an odd situation. Krause had decided in advance of the end of the season he was going to blow up the team even though it was still good. Perhaps Jordan could have been like Lebron and just teamed up with some all-stars elsewhere but back in those days stars wanted to beat other stars, not team up with them.

With all that said, your general point is still absurd....saying Jordan lacks mental toughness because he retired in his mid30s after 6 championships is a bit of a reach.

Calling out a dude who retires twice in the middle of his prime due to mental exhaustion, as he has said on record, and lies with a straight face; Ordered an insecure documentary about himself, edited by himself after seeing the mantle slipping when Lebron won the 2016 3-1 comeback championship. A doc in which he takes a classless dump on Scottie, Jerry Krauss, Grant, Isaiah(after interviewing him).

Had he comeback from retirement, and joined a 1994 20-62 record, Pistons / Bucks team for a new challenge and taken them to the promised land (a'la Lebron's return to Cleveland, or signing for the Lakers), maybe he gets more credit. But, outside of Phil and Scottie, he's never even reached a conference finals. And, this may be debatable, but for me he doesn't win the 1996-97 chips without Rodman - the greatest rebounder in the game.

Lebron has never played with a team as good(two top 75 all time players) or been coached by an all time coach(including the Heat ). Spo may end up being in the top 25-50 all time, but he was just a baby with little creativity, during the 2010-14 run.

That's an insecure liar to me, not a mentally tough SOB, that y'all like to trumpet. He just rode the greatest superteam ever created, coached by the best(one of the best) in the game, thanks to Jerry Krauss. I'd call that getting extremely lucky, not mental toughness. That team was a juiced up Raptors + Scottie and Rodman, which won 55 games without Mike. They just needed a Grant Hill, Reggie Miller, Penny Hardaway, etc to get over the top.

Oh yeah, and Lebron dragged a bunch of nobodies to the finals in 2007 - Swept albeit against a dynastic Spurs. He took 2 games off the dynastic Warriors in 2015 with a 7 player squad without Kyrie and K-Love. Mike went up against teams like that - Celtics & Pistons and got swept over and over and over, till Isaiah broke his wrist, Magic lost Kareem(and retired an year later) and Bird hung it up.

P.S - don't use that Lebron teaming up with other all stars cos of mental weakness crap again, if you don't wanna get murdered

You can try to go back to the lazy and hollow 6 on 6 rings crap again though.

[Ugalde]

yea when you have another top 5 player on your roster consistently that’s going to happen

[VanWest82]

As a long time MJ supporter I have a hard time arguing with the stats. Lebron sure has put himself in position to lose a series a lot.

[homecourtloss]

Bump

LeBron is 38-10 in closeout games, the best in NBA history.

LeBron, 38-10
Duncan, 35-14
Wade, 22-9
Shaq, 33-14
Jordan, 30-13
Kareem, 37-16
Magic, 32-14
Havlicek, 26-12
Durant, 21-10
Kobe, 33-16
Bill Russell 25-16
Bird, 22-17
Dr. J, 24-21

Others without 20+ closeout wins:

David Robinson, 16-6
Curry, 19-9
Mikan, 18-10
Drexler, 16-9
Isiah Thomas, 16-9
Kawhi 17-10
Dirk, 13-8
Hakeem, 16-10
Ewing, 17-12
Nash, 11-7
Oscar Robertson, 8-6
Wilt, 18-17
Moses Malone, 10-9
Kevin Garnett, 13-24
Barkley, 12-15
K. Malone, 19-24

[Egg Nog]

As a long time MJ supporter I have a hard time arguing with the stats. Lebron sure has put himself in position to lose a series a lot.

lol

LeBron plays in a playoff series = "LeBron has put himself in a position to lose a series"

[Benedict_Boozer]

Another chance on Fri!

[A_Biased_Fan]

Bump

LeBron is 38-10 in closeout games, the best in NBA history.

LeBron, 38-10
Duncan, 35-14
Wade, 22-9
Shaq, 33-14
Jordan, 30-13
Kareem, 37-16
Magic, 32-14
Havlicek, 26-12
Durant, 21-10
Kobe, 33-16
Bill Russell 25-16
Bird, 22-17
Dr. J, 24-21

Others without 20+ closeout wins:

David Robinson, 16-6
Curry, 19-9
Mikan, 18-10
Drexler, 16-9
Isiah Thomas, 16-9
Kawhi 17-10
Dirk, 13-8
Hakeem, 16-10
Ewing, 17-12
Nash, 11-7
Oscar Robertson, 8-6
Wilt, 18-17
Moses Malone, 10-9
Kevin Garnett, 13-24
Barkley, 12-15
K. Malone, 19-24

Damn KG what you doin blowing that many closeout games!

[VanWest82]

As a long time MJ supporter I have a hard time arguing with the stats. Lebron sure has put himself in position to lose a series a lot.

lol

LeBron plays in a playoff series = "LeBron has put himself in a position to lose a series"

For some reason I interpreted it as elimination games. C'est la vie.