Steve Nash believes James Harden is unfairly treated by the new rules

[Kobeskillz]

Harden is hard to watch, all his flopping and foul baiting makes him boring to watch, when I see him drive, I am always praying someone Bill Laimbeer’s him in the face

I always thought he was super boring to watch too. I just figured Houston loved free throw contest and someone moon walking backwards while launching 3s.

[KingFox]

Read on Twitter

This. I love watching compilations of actual harden buckets and highlights, but no one in the game is so good that you have to guard with your hands behind your back. Literally made no sense. If he truly is one of the 75 best, I expect to adjust accordingly.

Period.

[turnaroundJ]

Harden flops but not always. The way he handles the ball and the way he can start and stop at will - somehow these lull defenders into reaching. I can’t count how many times players foolishly tried to reach for the ball when they never had a chance in hell of stealing it. I feel like that’s just bad defense. You gotta play D with your footwork and not your hands. Or maybe it’s different when you’re actually in front of him guarding him in person.

[og15]

Great players adjust. Harden needs to adjust, if he can't, then that's an indictment on his greatness. I expect him to adjust just like many others have in the past.

[Homer38]

I except him to adjust,but if he can't he will be the biggest fraud ever.

[Karate Diop]

Harden will be fine, he's getting back into shape and getting accustomed to his teammates...

[Jabroni Lames]

For years, Harden has been exploiting a loophole in the rules that allowed un-natural, non-basketball plays to be rewarded. And now those loopholes are closed. Steve Nash is the last coach in the world who should be complaining about it. His famous "That's Not Basketball" meme, complaining about Trae Young might have triggered the NBA to finally clamp down.

Watch on YouTube

[ShootersShoot]

8 pages in and no vids or examples of harden being reffed unfairly this season. If those claims are being made I want to see evidence.

[nfmos]

If Harden thinks the rule change went too far that means they are working as intended. Great news.

Nash thinks the refs are calling the game differently for Harden than other players...

Here's the thing, you are defending Harden and arguing that he is being treated unfairly compared to other players. But its a wasted argument because i know I, and maybe others, don't care if its unfairly being applied to him now

The refs hands were tied for the longest time as far as the borderline violations they had to call with him and all the other players. But now, its like they have finally been given the green light to be able to use their judgement on whether the players are making non-basketball plays, and you don't think they remember all the video clips of Harden making them look like fools with his fake fouls? Of course he is going to be given less benefit of doubt now because he was by farrr the biggest violator of that trash in the first place. What percentage of 3s Harden takes does he actually even land standing on his feet instead of falling down? Go look at the amount of fouls on 3 point shots Harden got compared to every other player in the league.

So yeah, i don't care if he is picked on now, like others have said, i feel he has been a manufactured star for a while now. His efficiency numbers were solely based on his ability to hunt for fouls, and that type of manipulating the rules should never have been encouraged. I have no problem with Steph not getting those calls on his 3s, because i think those junk calls ruin the game. So Harden either needs to show he can adjust, or just shut up. The problem is that he got so lazy on relying on those calls that he got out of shape and maybe can't get to his previous levels before. But its on him now, not the refs.

[DonaldSanders]

Watched my first game of the season last night (POR vs LAC) and it looked to me like the refs allowed a lot more contact than they have in recent years.

This is a good thing.

Players will adjust and as long as the refs hold the line we will get to watch basketball instead of an endless parade to the free throw line when a defender dares to breathe near a perimeter player.

Yup, all the games I have watched have been like that. People like more "let them play" and less constant trips to the line.

So you have the new "unnatural motion" rules and then also the refs calling it more like they do in the playoffs. Both of these hurt JH's FT production and both of these make the NBA *much* more fun to watch. I love the season so far!

[dhsilv2]

If Harden thinks the rule change went too far that means they are working as intended. Great news.

Nash thinks the refs are calling the game differently for Harden than other players...

Here's the thing, you are defending Harden and arguing that he is being treated unfairly compared to other players. But its a wasted argument because i know I, and maybe others, don't care if its unfairly being applied to him now

The refs hands were tied for the longest time as far as the borderline violations they had to call with him and all the other players. But now, its like they have finally been given the green light to be able to use their judgement on whether the players are making non-basketball plays, and you don't think they remember all the video clips of Harden making them look like fools with his fake fouls? Of course he is going to be given less benefit of doubt now because he was by farrr the biggest violator of that trash in the first place. What percentage of 3s Harden takes does he actually even land standing on his feet instead of falling down? Go look at the amount of fouls on 3 point shots Harden got compared to every other player in the league.

So yeah, i don't care if he is picked on now, like others have said, i feel he has been a manufactured star for a while now. His efficiency numbers were solely based on his ability to hunt for fouls, and that type of manipulating the rules should never have been encouraged. I have no problem with Steph not getting those calls on his 3s, because i think those junk calls ruin the game. So Harden either needs to show he can adjust, or just shut up. The problem is that he got so lazy on relying on those calls that he got out of shape and maybe can't get to his previous levels before. But its on him now, not the refs.

What about his shots THIS year do you think is relying on the refs bailing him out? It's like you didn't take 5 minutes to watch every single shot he's taken here that I already posted to make sure nobody has to do this.

And the idea that harden's been making the refs look bad is pretty far from it. If anything he's made a lot of fans look silly because they can't seem to understand the rules. I've got no issue whatsoever with calling these guys out for flopping. The weird stopping in motion to get a guy his back stuff was stupid. We clearly disagree on the 3's...harden's step back has lead to people leaping forward at him and, gasp...landing in his land space. That's a foul.

But again do you think his first shot in the last game was not a foul? It looks pretty plain to me that he was hacked, and that should have been called. And it would have been called for other players. There was no flopping, no weird non basketball movement. It was a guy going in and getting hit as he went up. It happens, maybe you think it was clean. That's cool too, but those are the types of plays we're talking about here. Not what happened 2 years ago in houston.

And in the post above, I was simply stating what nash was saying. It's clearly even when it takes 10 minutes to watch every dang shot he took this year...most of you aren't even looking and are assuming highlights for 2 3 4 years ago are what we're seeing this year.

[nfmos]

Nash thinks the refs are calling the game differently for Harden than other players...

Here's the thing, you are defending Harden and arguing that he is being treated unfairly compared to other players. But its a wasted argument because i know I, and maybe others, don't care if its unfairly being applied to him now

The refs hands were tied for the longest time as far as the borderline violations they had to call with him and all the other players. But now, its like they have finally been given the green light to be able to use their judgement on whether the players are making non-basketball plays, and you don't think they remember all the video clips of Harden making them look like fools with his fake fouls? Of course he is going to be given less benefit of doubt now because he was by farrr the biggest violator of that trash in the first place. What percentage of 3s Harden takes does he actually even land standing on his feet instead of falling down? Go look at the amount of fouls on 3 point shots Harden got compared to every other player in the league.

So yeah, i don't care if he is picked on now, like others have said, i feel he has been a manufactured star for a while now. His efficiency numbers were solely based on his ability to hunt for fouls, and that type of manipulating the rules should never have been encouraged. I have no problem with Steph not getting those calls on his 3s, because i think those junk calls ruin the game. So Harden either needs to show he can adjust, or just shut up. The problem is that he got so lazy on relying on those calls that he got out of shape and maybe can't get to his previous levels before. But its on him now, not the refs.

What about his shots THIS year do you think is relying on the refs bailing him out? It's like you didn't take 5 minutes to watch every single shot he's taken here that I already posted to make sure nobody has to do this.

And the idea that harden's been making the refs look bad is pretty far from it. If anything he's made a lot of fans look silly because they can't seem to understand the rules. I've got no issue whatsoever with calling these guys out for flopping. The weird stopping in motion to get a guy his back stuff was stupid. We clearly disagree on the 3's...harden's step back has lead to people leaping forward at him and, gasp...landing in his land space. That's a foul.

But again do you think his first shot in the last game was not a foul? It looks pretty plain to me that he was hacked, and that should have been called. And it would have been called for other players. There was no flopping, no weird non basketball movement. It was a guy going in and getting hit as he went up. It happens, maybe you think it was clean. That's cool too, but those are the types of plays we're talking about here. Not what happened 2 years ago in houston.

And in the post above, I was simply stating what nash was saying. It's clearly even when it takes 10 minutes to watch every dang shot he took this year...most of you aren't even looking and are assuming highlights for 2 3 4 years ago are what we're seeing this year.

You clearly have a bias toward Harden and can't see the crap he was doing before and how the majority of NBA fans thought even if at the very best he was staying within the written rules, he was definitely violating the spirit of the rules. I will admit i have a bias against Harden because i think he played an ugly game even though he was capable of so much more. I am a huge Curry fan but i could see that him kicking out on 3s was ridiculous, and don't mind him not getting that call anymore. But if you think every single time Harden did a step back, or even the majority of the time, that defenders were the reason he could not land on his feet, you either are blinded by your bias, or are being disingenuous. Every time he shot a 3 you could on the way down he wasnt even putting his feet down to land, he was always planning to fall. Imagine doing that crap on the playground?

And again, i dont care if he is being picked on this year, even if he is. Overall, the refs are letting contact go uncalled all over the league, the problem with Harden is he stopped learning how to play through that since his first instinct started to become hunting for fouls. Again, do we really think defenders started defending him with their arms behind their back because he was just so amazing, or because they knew a primary part of his game was hunting for arms to lock and draw a call?

He built up years of bad karma with the refs, now its coming back to him.

[dhsilv2]

Here's the thing, you are defending Harden and arguing that he is being treated unfairly compared to other players. But its a wasted argument because i know I, and maybe others, don't care if its unfairly being applied to him now

The refs hands were tied for the longest time as far as the borderline violations they had to call with him and all the other players. But now, its like they have finally been given the green light to be able to use their judgement on whether the players are making non-basketball plays, and you don't think they remember all the video clips of Harden making them look like fools with his fake fouls? Of course he is going to be given less benefit of doubt now because he was by farrr the biggest violator of that trash in the first place. What percentage of 3s Harden takes does he actually even land standing on his feet instead of falling down? Go look at the amount of fouls on 3 point shots Harden got compared to every other player in the league.

So yeah, i don't care if he is picked on now, like others have said, i feel he has been a manufactured star for a while now. His efficiency numbers were solely based on his ability to hunt for fouls, and that type of manipulating the rules should never have been encouraged. I have no problem with Steph not getting those calls on his 3s, because i think those junk calls ruin the game. So Harden either needs to show he can adjust, or just shut up. The problem is that he got so lazy on relying on those calls that he got out of shape and maybe can't get to his previous levels before. But its on him now, not the refs.

What about his shots THIS year do you think is relying on the refs bailing him out? It's like you didn't take 5 minutes to watch every single shot he's taken here that I already posted to make sure nobody has to do this.

And the idea that harden's been making the refs look bad is pretty far from it. If anything he's made a lot of fans look silly because they can't seem to understand the rules. I've got no issue whatsoever with calling these guys out for flopping. The weird stopping in motion to get a guy his back stuff was stupid. We clearly disagree on the 3's...harden's step back has lead to people leaping forward at him and, gasp...landing in his land space. That's a foul.

But again do you think his first shot in the last game was not a foul? It looks pretty plain to me that he was hacked, and that should have been called. And it would have been called for other players. There was no flopping, no weird non basketball movement. It was a guy going in and getting hit as he went up. It happens, maybe you think it was clean. That's cool too, but those are the types of plays we're talking about here. Not what happened 2 years ago in houston.

And in the post above, I was simply stating what nash was saying. It's clearly even when it takes 10 minutes to watch every dang shot he took this year...most of you aren't even looking and are assuming highlights for 2 3 4 years ago are what we're seeing this year.

You clearly have a bias toward Harden and can't see the crap he was doing before and how the majority of NBA fans thought even if at the very best he was staying within the written rules, he was definitely violating the spirit of the rules. I will admit i have a bias against Harden because i think he played an ugly game even though he was capable of so much more. I am a huge Curry fan but i could see that him kicking out on 3s was ridiculous, and don't mind him not getting that call anymore. But if you think every single time Harden did a step back, or even the majority of the time, that defenders were the reason he could not land on his feet, you either are blinded by your bias, or are being disingenuous. Every time he shot a 3 you could on the way down he wasnt even putting his feet down to land, he was always planning to fall. Imagine doing that crap on the playground?

And again, i dont care if he is being picked on this year, even if he is. Overall, the refs are letting contact go uncalled all over the league, the problem with Harden is he stopped learning how to play through that since his first instinct started to become hunting for fouls. Again, do we really think defenders started defending him with their arms behind their back because he was just so amazing, or because they knew a primary part of his game was hunting for arms to lock and draw a call?

He built up years of bad karma with the refs, now its coming back to him.

I get it. You want to dog on Harden. I'm talking about this year. You want to talk about 2 years ago.

[xinxin]

Ok…

I’m back here to do more of these :

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha ha


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[nfmos]

What about his shots THIS year do you think is relying on the refs bailing him out? It's like you didn't take 5 minutes to watch every single shot he's taken here that I already posted to make sure nobody has to do this.

And the idea that harden's been making the refs look bad is pretty far from it. If anything he's made a lot of fans look silly because they can't seem to understand the rules. I've got no issue whatsoever with calling these guys out for flopping. The weird stopping in motion to get a guy his back stuff was stupid. We clearly disagree on the 3's...harden's step back has lead to people leaping forward at him and, gasp...landing in his land space. That's a foul.

But again do you think his first shot in the last game was not a foul? It looks pretty plain to me that he was hacked, and that should have been called. And it would have been called for other players. There was no flopping, no weird non basketball movement. It was a guy going in and getting hit as he went up. It happens, maybe you think it was clean. That's cool too, but those are the types of plays we're talking about here. Not what happened 2 years ago in houston.

And in the post above, I was simply stating what nash was saying. It's clearly even when it takes 10 minutes to watch every dang shot he took this year...most of you aren't even looking and are assuming highlights for 2 3 4 years ago are what we're seeing this year.

You clearly have a bias toward Harden and can't see the crap he was doing before and how the majority of NBA fans thought even if at the very best he was staying within the written rules, he was definitely violating the spirit of the rules. I will admit i have a bias against Harden because i think he played an ugly game even though he was capable of so much more. I am a huge Curry fan but i could see that him kicking out on 3s was ridiculous, and don't mind him not getting that call anymore. But if you think every single time Harden did a step back, or even the majority of the time, that defenders were the reason he could not land on his feet, you either are blinded by your bias, or are being disingenuous. Every time he shot a 3 you could on the way down he wasnt even putting his feet down to land, he was always planning to fall. Imagine doing that crap on the playground?

And again, i dont care if he is being picked on this year, even if he is. Overall, the refs are letting contact go uncalled all over the league, the problem with Harden is he stopped learning how to play through that since his first instinct started to become hunting for fouls. Again, do we really think defenders started defending him with their arms behind their back because he was just so amazing, or because they knew a primary part of his game was hunting for arms to lock and draw a call?

He built up years of bad karma with the refs, now its coming back to him.

I get it. You want to dog on Harden. I'm talking about this year. You want to talk about 2 years ago.

Once you build a reputation, you need to live with it or work hard to disprove it. People dont just forget all the years of Harden doing that crap. If he stops complaining and the refs see he is determined to just play the game then he will start getting the benefit of doubt again.

[pr0wler]

Harden has 17.3 PPG on under 37% after 4 games right now.I think with the times he will adjust and he will be fine(if this is not the case,he will be a fraud) but the days with 8-10 free points per game are likely over and it was about damn time.

Agreed. Nice to see a well balanced take. The majority of the posts in this thread are just dunking on Harden's slump, when he's still most likely recovering from the hamstring injury at the end of the playoffs last season (he couldn't even run), and is clearly being targeted by the refs in the early going.

The majority of his FTA attempts are legit fouls, but there were definitely a 2-3 attempts per game that were unjustified. So I'm glad to see those out of the game, not just for him but for other players as well.

[5paceman]

[Cavsfansince84]

Agreed. Nice to see a well balanced take. The majority of the posts in this thread are just dunking on Harden's slump, when he's still most likely recovering from the hamstring injury at the end of the playoffs last season (he couldn't even run), and is clearly being targeted by the refs in the early going.

The majority of his FTA attempts are legit fouls, but there were definitely a 2-3 attempts per game that were unjustified. So I'm glad to see those out of the game, not just for him but for other players as well.

I feel like it was more than that though I wouldn't say unjustified so much as they are attempts he just wouldn't get today. I also don't think this had as much to do with some guys using the rules as they were being interpreted to their advantage so much as the nba didn't think fans liked it. So they are changing it to make for a better product.

[dhsilv2]

You clearly have a bias toward Harden and can't see the crap he was doing before and how the majority of NBA fans thought even if at the very best he was staying within the written rules, he was definitely violating the spirit of the rules. I will admit i have a bias against Harden because i think he played an ugly game even though he was capable of so much more. I am a huge Curry fan but i could see that him kicking out on 3s was ridiculous, and don't mind him not getting that call anymore. But if you think every single time Harden did a step back, or even the majority of the time, that defenders were the reason he could not land on his feet, you either are blinded by your bias, or are being disingenuous. Every time he shot a 3 you could on the way down he wasnt even putting his feet down to land, he was always planning to fall. Imagine doing that crap on the playground?

And again, i dont care if he is being picked on this year, even if he is. Overall, the refs are letting contact go uncalled all over the league, the problem with Harden is he stopped learning how to play through that since his first instinct started to become hunting for fouls. Again, do we really think defenders started defending him with their arms behind their back because he was just so amazing, or because they knew a primary part of his game was hunting for arms to lock and draw a call?

He built up years of bad karma with the refs, now its coming back to him.

I get it. You want to dog on Harden. I'm talking about this year. You want to talk about 2 years ago.

Once you build a reputation, you need to live with it or work hard to disprove it. People dont just forget all the years of Harden doing that crap. If he stops complaining and the refs see he is determined to just play the game then he will start getting the benefit of doubt again.

So you just can't discuss the actual topic and want to cry about the past? We're talking about this season. These professional refs who have clearly never had any issues with Harden, not whiney fans. If you can't have an objective discussion based on this year and this year alone, I've got nothing for you.

[JN61]

You guys realize in about 10 20 minutes you can see every field goal Harden's taken this year right?

No need to speculate, no need to say people don't watch the games. Just here is every shot in each game. Judge for yourself.


https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?ContextMeasure=FGA&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=28800&GameID=0022100044&PlayerID=201935&RangeType=0&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612751&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?ContextMeasure=FGA&GameID=0022100035&PlayerID=201935&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?ContextMeasure=FGA&GameID=0022100021&PlayerID=201935&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?ContextMeasure=FGA&GameID=0022100001&PlayerID=201935&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?ContextMeasure=FGA&GameID=0012100056&PlayerID=201935&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Pre%20Season&TeamID=&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game

Eh. Half of the plays were stepbacks with absolutely no contact and many plays with very little to no contact under the rim... Then many 50/50 plays which aren't called this year at all for anyone... I think it's you who haven't watched other players... Some guys been absolutely destroyed and getting no calls what so ever. Quit victimizing for a player who is now getting refereed like other players...