After further review, I'm starting to shade LA's 2020 title

[HotRocks34]

And the people saying it's not are only doing it because they hate a guy they've never even met. Sad ****.

I have defended and argued LeBron's case on here, for most of my 15+ years, more times than I can count. I wouldn't say I'm his biggest fan, but I sure as heck respect him as a player.

It's not about hate for me. I just look at the data and say "these guys can't stay healthy over a full year, so if the Bubble Season was a full year then health issues may have derailed things." That's my only point. We saw this happen last year, clearly, in the playoffs. And people can say it happened this year, too (although I'm not sure LA had the right ingredients for a deep postseason run even if healthy this year).

I only came to this conclusion after watching this play out for four years (Bron/Davis in LA), with the Bubble year being the aberration. That's why I'm making this post now and not two years ago.

As stated in the original post, I defended the title when it was won. Yes, asterisk, but fully valid and legit title. I've just slightly changed my mind on that given the health info of the past two years.

Just my opinion.

[Archerbro]

The people saying it's legit are mainly doing so out of a moral code they have for themselves where they disavow asterisks outright. They just feel as tho it is improper and disrespectful to the team or player in question. And that's fine.

But...in their heart of hearts they know...the 2020 title is ILLEGITIMATE.

How so? they had the best record in the West and didn't even get the advantage of home court, in your heart of hearts y'all know they were winning regardless of wether there was a bubble or not.

they absolutely were contenders, the point being-
covid didn't give us a real playoffs. it gave us some tournament in disney world where players came in not in shape, some didn't show up at all, role players were superstars, etc.

The point is-we didn't get a real playoffs because of forces outside of the NBA.

were the lakers the kings of the bubble? absolutely,would they have won the NBA title had covid not happened?-sure id have them in top 5 to win title: but we'll never know. and this is exactly why I was against the bubble to begin with.

It wasn't a real playoffs, and alot of people were gonna asterisk it regardless of who won.
It's the same reason the dodgers have an asterisk on that 66 game season too.
buddies of mine who are NHL fans asterisk 2020 as well.

It's an asterisk not because of anything lebron or LA did, but because of the circumstances and how the U.S. leagues/etc handled a pandemic.

[Shock Defeat]

This. I think the same about 2011 Mavericks. Winning the title, then 7th seed and then 10th seed.

The Mavericks were actually good for a long time though leading up to 2011. Not the same situation at all.

From 07 to 2011 they only got out of the first round once and haven't been out of the first round since.

In 07 they were the best team in the league then got upset by the Warriors. If anything, that was the fluke (against the Mavericks). Then they lost in the first round, made the 2nd round, and then lost to the Spurs when the Mavs were the 2 seed, and we all know that the Spurs were not a traditional 7 seed. It wasn't even considered an upset at the time.

Not the same situation at all.

[Sofia]

Watch on YouTube

It's already been done

This is your only post in nearly 11.5 years!?

Its a high quality post, funny ass video, could even say 11.5 years in the making

“Also MJ pushed off” lol

Oh I’m not knocking the content. It’s just wild that someone has an account older than Lebron’s first ring and has only just made their first post.

And Jordan did push off.

[Edrees]

They won a title and then failed miserably every other year. This shows to me that the ring was fairly flukey and suspect.

Lol, they lost to the suns last year. You're guidelines would place almost every 1x nba champ title team as a fluke, if the next season your team loses to the eventual western conference champ means you "failed miserably"

[Cavsfansince84]

I wonder if we'd hear so much about the 2020 title if anyone other than the Lakers had won it that year. Something tells me the answer is no.

[JN61]

Totally legit. They won 4 playoffs series to get that championship. They didn't cheat.

Let's stop this bullsh*t.

Mickey mouse rings.

[TheLand13]

This. I think the same about 2011 Mavericks. Winning the title, then 7th seed and then 10th seed.

The Mavericks were actually good for a long time though leading up to 2011. Not the same situation at all.

From 07 to 2011 they only got out of the first round once and haven't been out of the first round since.

You guys are ignoring context. 2011 was the season they acquired Tyson Chandler, who completely changed their defense and made them a much more dynamic team overall. They immediately lost him after that season and they were never able to achieve that same level of defensive consistency that helped get them become champions in the first place.

[TheLand13]

You ll never hear, if we ran this play or had made that shot.

Kind of hard to make that argument when you don’t even make it to game 7 against them…

[Ursusamericanus]

It was totally legit. All the teams had the same amount of rest. A ring is a ring. And yes, they shat themselves this year all the same.

[SpiderX1016]

They probably wouldn't have won if it weren't for the circumstances but I'm not going to discount that title if everyone else played in the same conditions.

[MoneyMo]

The Lakers in 19-20 were the first seed from start to finish. They started the season 24-3 and were 49-14 when the shutdown started on March 10th. They were already 77% through the regular season.

To say they only won cause of the bubble is foolish considering they went 3-5 when the season resumed in the bubble, with plenty of people predicting the Blazers to upset them. If anything, the bubble initially hurt them. The team that year was built perfectly around the strengths of their two best players, anyone trying to discredit it is just trying to create a narrative to discredit players they don't like.

[SleepingDragon]

Wow...so many people agree with Phil Jackson saying the Spurs' 1999 lockout title was not legitimate and should have an asterisk.

[-Sammy-]

The 'illegitimate' crowd's arguments can be summarized thus: 'this basketball championship isn't legit because of all the non-basketball factors; the fact that they played the best basketball under conditions that minimized the influence of non-basketball variables makes this basketball championship less legit than previous basketball championships in which non-basketball factors impacted the outcome more heavily.'

What happens between the 94x50 feet for the 48 minutes ought to be the most important thing-- the only thing, ideally-- in determining a basketball champion.

[Slim Charlez]

The Mavericks were actually good for a long time though leading up to 2011. Not the same situation at all.

From 07 to 2011 they only got out of the first round once and haven't been out of the first round since.

You guys are ignoring context. 2011 was the season they acquired Tyson Chandler, who completely changed their defense and made them a much more dynamic team overall. They immediately lost him after that season and they were never able to achieve that same level of defensive consistency that helped get them become champions in the first place.

Oh I agree with you, I completely disagree with the notion that just because a team wins a title one year then underachieves a year later that their accomplishments are stained because fact is that context can change everything. A lot oh things can change in a year.

[TheLand13]

And the people saying it's not are only doing it because they hate a guy they've never even met. Sad ****.

I have defended and argued LeBron's case on here, for most of my 15+ years, more times than I can count. I wouldn't say I'm his biggest fan, but I sure as heck respect him as a player.

It's not about hate for me. I just look at the data and say "these guys can't stay healthy over a full year, so if the Bubble Season was a full year then health issues may have derailed things." That's my only point. We saw this happen last year, clearly, in the playoffs. And people can say it happened this year, too (although I'm not sure LA had the right ingredients for a deep postseason run even if healthy this year).

I only came to this conclusion after watching this play out for four years (Bron/Davis in LA), with the Bubble year being the aberration. That's why I'm making this post now and not two years ago.

As stated in the original post, I defended the title when it was won. Yes, asterisk, but fully valid and legit title. I've just slightly changed my mind on that given the health info of the past two years.

Just my opinion.

That’s a poor reason to question its legitimacy. You’re ignoring other key factors, like this being by far the best team he had in LA and the best he looked with them, and the shortened off season that followed. At least try to use context in a better matter, it’s like you’re choosing to ignore other key factors for convenience sake.

[Ballerhogger]

Every team got 3 month rest to come back and ready to play. Look how decivesly they beat the heat. Who could of beaten the lakers legitmately? The clippers come to mind but they gave up the biggest chokes in nba history. 2020 had multiply bigs to throw at jokic and great perimeter defense to go with lebron and decent outshooting.

[Lalouie]

in the record books, it will still be a ring
but when people talk they'll question that.

it has been very clear, things fell into place the past decade for lebron because we are seeing what happens when they don't go right.

he is LUCKY riley was strong enough to put him in his place. another org would have succumbed to his whims and he would have been s*** out of luck and rings and zero resume to go back to cleveland with,,,,,,and no move to lal. it's so easy to extrapolate because it's simple math

[picko]

So the premise of this thread is that the Lakers may had hypothetical injuries that stopped them from winning? So we are discounting the title because of that.

Whether you like the Lakers or not - or LeBron for that matter - the 2019-20 championship was difficult in unique ways. There wasn't anything easy about it. We saw teams such as the Clippers and Bucks absolutely implode under the stress. That's real playoff pressure.

The Lakers were a dominant team that season. They were the second best regular season team - behind the Bucks - and were surging before the playoffs began. They managed the bubble better than anyone else and they played superb basketball throughout. LeBron and Davis had a historically great playoff run for a duo.

Every time I hear these arguments discounting that season it feels agenda driven. There is so much hatred directed towards the Lakers and LeBron that it's hard to treat some of these arguments as being in good faith.

[vxmike]

Everyone player with the same rules that year. The Lakers were pretty good and the ball bounced their way. Asterisk one title and people will find reasons to asterisk others.

Four years
One ring
Two missed playoffs
One first round exit

It’s safe to say Lebrons four years with the Lakers have been a big disappointment. They got one ring but rings are pretty cheap in the super team era.