Jerry West pretty much destroys JJ Redick

[LakersLegacy]

JJ should have won more for sure. It’s a different game then and now. Of course players are better now. But players should be even better today than they are because many aren’t that dedicated to winning and don’t care as much as players in the past despite $100,000,000.00 or more.

So Jerry and JJ both have points. Jerry is right that players should care more for how much access they have and $$$$$$ they have. JJ is right that players are better because of a bigger talent pool (also taller more athletic players today) more access to trainers, training facilities, mentors etc

[hoosierdaddy34]

Goes both ways. Take all the knowledge and advancements and the money from that era to this era away from guys like Redick and he doesn't even make to 60s league. Guys like Redick are too busy trying to get nice newspaper job or what ever to rise a family to care about the sports..

He is a shooting specialist which translates to any era. But given there was no three point line back then, that’s what he built his entire game around. He’d still probably average 30 plus a game. Basketball wasn’t good in that era, bunch of dudes with a weak handle and slow release set shots…a lot of unathletic dudes on the court. Guys selling insurance in the offseason. Yawn.

Oh yeah, compared to today with guy's who are fashion designers and podcasters. Much more dignified.

You couldn’t have missed the point any more than you did.

[Pantsman]

Are we going to sit here and pretend they didn't play against janitors and plumbers because we should "respect our elders?"

What JJ said was the truth. The truth is uncomfortable.

The idea they were plumbers is extremely stupid. Like really really really stupid.

Yeah most of them weren’t smart enough to have a trade. They were usually car salesmen and grocery bagger.

[Slot Machine]

Anyone else notice that it’s pretty much exclusively LeBron fanboys defending JJ here?

[Nate505]

Are we going to sit here and pretend they didn't play against janitors and plumbers because we should "respect our elders?"

What JJ said was the truth. The truth is uncomfortable.

The idea they were plumbers is extremely stupid. Like really really really stupid.

Yeah most of them weren’t smart enough to have a trade. They were usually car salesmen and grocery bagger.

And professional basketball players. That was like the primary profession for most of them, at least when they were in the league.

[CS707]

Frankly, that sounded to me as if West was conceding at least some of Redick's claimed facts, while taking strong umbrage at Redick's tone.

Exactly this IMO. He straight up acknowledged the point about the level of athletes then vs. now. I think what he took offense to was the suggestion that accomplishments from that era were not as impressive. Dominating an era is dominating an era. He was also pointing out that JJ had a place in the league in the backs of those players.

When he mentioned Cousy's name in that context, I wondered whether he'd go to the union-recognition story. As the story is commonly told today, the three players most credited with getting the union established and recognized by the owners were:

-- Bob Cousy, founder and first president.
-- Tom Heinsohn, second president, and organizer of the all-star game labor action that won recognition.
-- Jerry West, the non-Celtic always mentioned as standing up to his team owner's threats and participating in the half-time strike.

Good info. I wasn’t aware of that. I assumed he was just acknowledging that the ability for a role player to make millions of dollars in today’s era is possible because the stars of eras past generated interest in the game in the first place. A JJ Reddick level player in Cousy’s era might have had to find another career more capable of supporting his family. What you posted makes a lot of sense though.

[Fencer reregistered]

Exactly this IMO. He straight up acknowledged the point about the level of athletes then vs. now. I think what he took offense to was the suggestion that accomplishments from that era were not as impressive. Dominating an era is dominating an era. He was also pointing out that JJ had a place in the league in the backs of those players.

When he mentioned Cousy's name in that context, I wondered whether he'd go to the union-recognition story. As the story is commonly told today, the three players most credited with getting the union established and recognized by the owners were:

-- Bob Cousy, founder and first president.
-- Tom Heinsohn, second president, and organizer of the all-star game labor action that won recognition.
-- Jerry West, the non-Celtic always mentioned as standing up to his team owner's threats and participating in the half-time strike.

Good info. I wasn’t aware of that. I assumed he was just acknowledging that the ability for a role player to make millions of dollars in today’s era is possible because the stars of eras past generated interest in the game in the first place. A JJ Reddick level player in Cousy’s era might have had to find another career more capable of supporting his family. What you posted makes a lot of sense though.

Here's the best article on the incident I can quickly find.

https://www.latimes.com/sports/la-xpm-2011-feb-16-la-sp-all-star-strike-20110217-story.html

[Fencer reregistered]

Another story of West feeling disrespected, in this case by Jeannie Buss and her team.

https://theathletic.com/3095914/2022/02/01/nba-75-at-no-14-jerry-west-was-mr-clutch-and-forever-will-be-brutally-honest-about-himself/?amp=1

[WRau1]

JJ probably could've worded it differently so it didn't sound insulting but he was somewhat correct. Modern athletes benefit from modern tech. The athletes of yesterday were worse by comparison and the talent drop-off between yesterday & today was huge, especially at the back end of the league. That's not to say that the guys from yesterday, if given today's tech, couldn't be just as good but we simply will never know. Redick even did say that the all-time greats would be great in any era. I don't understand why people are getting so bent out of shape by that.

[thamadkant]

JJ wouldn't last in the 'Plumber and fireman' era.

He was a scrub in the 00's and only found relevance in the league as the it transitioned to the 3 ball and defensive rules changed. Even then, JJ was only a role player. He made that comment as if he could survive in an earlier era. If someone else said it, like a Lebron, sure. But JJ Reddick needs to learn his place when taking shots at older eras.

If JJ Redick had to work as a plumber to support his family and play basketball as extra income, he would not last long in the NBA at all. Players today have 3-4 medical professionals traveling with them, a couple of doctors standing by, chefs for teams and even individual players, 24/7 access to facilities and care and 50+ years of knowledge and lessons-learnt from the past both on-court and off-court. This is just how it is.... in 50 years time (assuming society hasnt crumbled before) professional players would have instant healing tools and maybe even artificial cartilage that would allow them to play competitively into their 50s.

You know society has really benefitted from the hard work and path ways the early generation set up and put up with. No joke, my grand parents survived on bread and lard for breakfast and steamed vegetables while working jobs that were dangerous back then due to the lack of knowledge and focus on work health safety, my grandpa lost his arms as he was an electrician in the 50s.
I will be the first to say that the last 20 years of my life so far has been 100% better than the early years due to how society has transformed and has become more convenient (although access to information globally and instantly has affected mental health a lot).

[No-more-rings]

JJ’s comment sort of reminds me of Marcellus Wiley once saying something to the effect of Wilt and Russell playing with wooden baskets, and then mocking the defensive stances of players back then.

[PizzaSteve]

Another story of West feeling disrespected, in this case by Jeannie Buss and her team.

https://theathletic.com/3095914/2022/02/01/nba-75-at-no-14-jerry-west-was-mr-clutch-and-forever-will-be-brutally-honest-about-himself/?amp=1

LA blew it. West is a foundation stone of the Golden state dynasty. Too much background to dive into, but had LA tapped better into West's talent, they might have several more titles. Egos.

Regarding the JJ comment, it is a stupid meme thing, that annoys older folks about how younger people communicate these days. They get attached to there meme, even when it is stupid and nonsense. Also, the worship of money as a measuring stick of talent is also sad.

The players of that generation were pros of varying skills, just as today. Calling them plummers and milkmen becauee pay was low is the height of disrespect.

Many pros in sports of lesser pay are superb atheletes. The world's best Ultimate players are superb atheletes even if almost unpaid. Many women are superb atheletes, even is poorly paid. The best female rugby players and crew atheletes are beasts. Are they to be disrespected because their sport is poorly paid.

It is arrogant bull, and repeating it shows an insecurity that is sad.

[Fencer reregistered]

Another story of West feeling disrespected, in this case by Jeannie Buss and her team.

https://theathletic.com/3095914/2022/02/01/nba-75-at-no-14-jerry-west-was-mr-clutch-and-forever-will-be-brutally-honest-about-himself/?amp=1

LA blew it. West is a foundation stone of the Golden state dynasty. Too much background to dive into, but had LA tapped better into West's talent, they might have several more titles. Egos.

Regarding the JJ comment, it is a stupid meme thing, that annoys older folks about how younger people communicate these days. They get attached to there meme, even when it is stupid and nonsense. Also, the worship of money as a measuring stick of talent is also sad.

The players of that generation were pros of varying skills, just as today. Calling them plummers and milkmen becauee pay was low is the height of disrespect.

Many pros in sports of lesser pay are superb atheletes. The world's best Ultimate players are superb atheletes even if almost unpaid. Many women are superb atheletes, even is poorly paid. The best female rugby players and crew atheletes are beasts. Are they to be disrespected because their sport is poorly paid.

It is arrogant bull, and repeating it shows an insecurity that is sad.

Good points!

Except -- I didn't know there were any pro Ultimate players at all. My son-in-law was on a team that top 3 in what seemed to be the national championshp 2 years running, and I'm almost certain they were entirely amateur.

[PizzaSteve]

Another story of West feeling disrespected, in this case by Jeannie Buss and her team.

https://theathletic.com/3095914/2022/02/01/nba-75-at-no-14-jerry-west-was-mr-clutch-and-forever-will-be-brutally-honest-about-himself/?amp=1

LA blew it. West is a foundation stone of the Golden state dynasty. Too much background to dive into, but had LA tapped better into West's talent, they might have several more titles. Egos.

Regarding the JJ comment, it is a stupid meme thing, that annoys older folks about how younger people communicate these days. They get attached to there meme, even when it is stupid and nonsense. Also, the worship of money as a measuring stick of talent is also sad.

The players of that generation were pros of varying skills, just as today. Calling them plummers and milkmen becauee pay was low is the height of disrespect.

Many pros in sports of lesser pay are superb atheletes. The world's best Ultimate players are superb atheletes even if almost unpaid. Many women are superb atheletes, even is poorly paid. The best female rugby players and crew atheletes are beasts. Are they to be disrespected because their sport is poorly paid.

It is arrogant bull, and repeating it shows an insecurity that is sad.

Good points!

Except -- I didn't know there were any pro Ultimate players at all. My son-in-law was on a team that top 3 in what seemed to be the national championshp 2 years running, and I'm almost certain they were entirely amateur.

There is actually a pro team here in Oakland. Dont make much, but ...

Friends played in worlds in the early 90s. Definitely not professional, but those disk skills....

[tamaraw08]

Playing ability has nothing to do with evaluating. By West's theory, Michael Jordan & Larry Bird would have been building dynasties with their respective teams, but they never won a ring as executives (Wizards, Hornets, Pacers)? Dumars did, but he lost on more stupid trades/signings than the smart ones.

The plumber thing is disrespectful, and a lot of former players to say that today's game actually deteriorated is also stupid. Just appreciate each era's existence, you don't have to like everything you see, but respect it.

Please don’t forget the best coaches like Riley , Phil Jackson, Kerr didnt have glowing stats when they played. By West comments, Pops, Spoelstra should not be coaching then?

[Nate505]

JJ probably could've worded it differently so it didn't sound insulting but he was somewhat correct. Modern athletes benefit from modern tech. The athletes of yesterday were worse by comparison and the talent drop-off between yesterday & today was huge, especially at the back end of the league. That's not to say that the guys from yesterday, if given today's tech, couldn't be just as good but we simply will never know. Redick even did say that the all-time greats would be great in any era. I don't understand why people are getting so bent out of shape by that.

My issue with the quote is he makes it sound like the early NBA players were just a bunch of plumbers and fireman who happened to play basketball, when it was really the other way around.

Like some of the teams might have been Bob's Plumbing in an intramural league instead of guys who actually did play college ball and were some of the best players of their time.

[JayMKE]

Redick lacks either lacks self awareness or has so much of it now as a talking head that he knows these stupid insulting hot takes will get him tons of attention. Can’t believe the guy has fans, hated him since he was at Duke. He was a one trick pony and would have been that plumber in a previous era. It goes without saying these “plumbers” of previous eras laid the foundation for scrubs like Redick to live out the rest of their lives as multimillionaires.

[garrick]

Everyone wants to do hot takes on JJ's statements but what he really was talking about was in reference to Bob Cousey and the claim that he was the best PG of all time.

JJ said Bob Cousy wasn't the greatest of all time because the level of competition was so low at the time compared to today when you have elite athletes so his numbers would not look as great compared to CP3 who has to go up against extremely athletic players.

He did not say that the all time greats like Jerry West, Wilt and Bob Cousy were scurbs rather that the average athleticism and skill level of the non stars are much lower than they are today so their stats will look much better than if they played in the modern era and JJ isn't wrong about that. Even looking back in the 90's there were some awful players that wouldn't even sniff the end of the bench today.

[MrSparkle]

I think Jerry West’s last sentence in the clip summed it up- disrespectful. Kinda laid the hammer imo. JJ probably regrets what he said.

[BallerTalk]

Anyone else notice that it’s pretty much exclusively LeBron fanboys defending JJ here?

Nope.