NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2)

[BelgradeNugget]

The issue is the MVP award is about how a player did in a single season. Not a reflection of past or future seasons.

If Denver have the best record overall (plausible) and Jokic keeps putting up NBA2k stats (guaranteed) it'll be hard to not give him the MVP unless you base your criteria on things outside of this season.

Giannis didn't win his 3rd because of this very reason.

Sure, but that doesn't make it right. Why punish players for the voters screwing up their previous ballots?

Giannis didn't win his 3rd strait because Jokic was more deserving that year and won 90% of 1st place votes. It was only question should it be unanimous or not. That is the simple fact.
If anyone deserve it more than Jokic this year he should win it.
BTW, LeBron didn't win his 3rd in 2011 because he didn't deserve it. Rose did.

[p0peye]

Usually post-bombing ends on my ignore list, but level of entertainment is simply too high, I apologise.

[Feed Your Head]

Jokic is just stupid lmao.

[AleksandarN]

All I got to say, is why is the MVP an offensive player of the year award?

It is not.

But Jokic appears to be the only true Basketball Genius we've ever seen.

That's the only way one can explain how a completely unathletic 7-Footer dominates the game as a perfect offensive Nucleus in a otherwise mediocre Team to the Point where Defense becomes almost obsolete.

How else can one explain to me how the Nuggets are leading the Western Conference despite having one of the worst Defensive Ratings in the League?

That being said, I am completely with you when it comes to All-Time Ratings and Sorts.

Those kinda talks are a waste of time right now.

Jokic won't even go down as the greatest Foreign Player ever, unless he manages to lead his Team to at least one Championship.

Dirk and Pau are still way ahead of both him and Joel in that regard.

Edit: Dirk, Pau and Giannis of course ...

An offensive genius. He seems to do a great
job knowing when to take over. Would rather involve his teammates first and then if it's not working take over.

That being said it's not sustainable in the playoffs and limits for effective this team can be.

If offensive brilliance is what we were looking for Nash should have won a third MVP.

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Stop it Nash is no where near the offensive talent as Jokic

[Blaze4G]

Yeah has nothign to do with the fact that it props your boy up. What' sthe point of all these advanced stats, and being the stats king, when you can't get past the WCF?

Yeah, the math really props my boy up, that’s right. Funny how much these metrics offend you despite the fact they give every NBA player and equal chance.

personal numbers aside: Jokic has 19 wins and Embiid has 14.

Over his career Embiid has a higher winning percentage than Jokic.

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You do realize the award of MVP is for this season and not a career award right?

[RB34]

Embiid’s defence is getting massively overrated itt.

His winning percentages? He’s played on teams with Jimmy Butler and peak Ben Simmons.

[Mick Dundee]

If offensive brilliance is what we were looking for Nash should have won a third MVP.

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Come on Dude ...

30/14/10 ...

When did Nash ever put up a Statline like that?

That's just Crazy-Ass Numbers ...

Yeah I know it's the last 10 Games Avg, but Jokic played with a minor wrist injury before that.

And he's not showing any signs of slowing down.

Most to the contrary ... The crazyness gains volume every other day ...

And no End in Sight.

How is anyone MVP Candidate supposed to compete with that at this very point in time?

[kuclas]

Giannis didn't win his 3rd because of this very reason.

Sure, but that doesn't make it right. Why punish players for the voters screwing up their previous ballots?

Giannis didn't win his 3rd strait because Jokic was more deserving that year and won 90% of 1st place votes. It was only question should it be unanimous or not. That is the simple fact.
If anyone deserve it more than Jokic this year he should win it.
BTW, LeBron didn't win his 3rd in 2011 because he didn't deserve it. Rose did.

Rose didn’t deserve the 2010-2011 season mvp. In a way with the way the nba has sped up games to allow more scoring

What rose did in 2010 season is equivalent to what Tatum is doing in this current 2022 season. So Tatum should win over Jokic by a landslide using your criteria.

Lebron was the far better player than rose in 2010. Voters didn’t want to give him a 3rd straight mvp. Lebron better shooting percentage. Same 3 point field goals. Better efficiency. More points. More rebounds. Same assists. Lebron was simply greater in 2010 season than rose.

Jokic has to get the nuggets to 62 plus wins to be in consideration.

Or else I think Giannis if the bucks gets 57 wins will get mvp. For some reason. I don’t think Tatum has any shot of mvp even if Boston wins 65 games.

[Purch]

Embiid’s defence is getting massively overrated itt.

His winning percentages? He’s played on teams with Jimmy Butler and peak Ben Simmons.

I mean Philly currently has the 2nd best ranked defense in the league, and he's been the anchor to that defense. It's not like that roster has spectacular defensive players running rampant either.

So what exactly is overrated?

[eyeatoma]

If offensive brilliance is what we were looking for Nash should have won a third MVP.

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Come on Dude ...

30/14/10 ...

When did Nash ever put up a Statline like that?

That's just Crazy-Ass Numbers ...

Yeah I know it's the last 10 Games Avg, but Jokic played with a minor wrist injury before that.

And he's not showing any signs of slowing down.

Most to the contrary ... The crazyness gains volume every other day ...

And no End in Sight.

How is anyone MVP Candidate supposed to compete with that at this very point in time?

I'm just, saying, Nash was strongly in the running for a 3rd MVP if I recall. Not saying Nash was better than Jokic.

Nash and the Suns changed the NBA. At the time he was the NBA's best offensive engine.

A whole offense unto itself.

He revolutionized the game, and laid the foundation for 3 point avalanche the NBA is experiencing now.

He also made Amare and the Matrix into all stars. They greatly benefited from his passing, PNR and lobs.

Jokic as good as he is in elevating his teammates hasn't been able to make Murray and MPJ into all stars.



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[Mickey8]

Maybe they don't have the quality to be all stars , or maybe they are always injured, or maybe the West was always stuck with the bunch of great players.

[velkisimo]

If offensive brilliance is what we were looking for Nash should have won a third MVP.

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Come on Dude ...

30/14/10 ...

When did Nash ever put up a Statline like that?

That's just Crazy-Ass Numbers ...

Yeah I know it's the last 10 Games Avg, but Jokic played with a minor wrist injury before that.

And he's not showing any signs of slowing down.

Most to the contrary ... The crazyness gains volume every other day ...

And no End in Sight.

How is anyone MVP Candidate supposed to compete with that at this very point in time?

I'm just, saying, Nash was strongly in the running for a 3rd MVP if I recall. Not saying Nash was better than Jokic.

Nash and the Suns changed the NBA. At the time he was the NBA's best offensive engine.

A whole offense unto itself.

He revolutionized the game, and laid the foundation for 3 point avalanche the NBA is experiencing now.

He also made Amare and the Matrix into all stars. They greatly benefited from his passing, PNR and lobs.

Jokic as good as he is in elevating his teammates hasn't been able to make Murray and MPJ into all stars.

Both players were all stars without Nash, with Marion being one in 2003 before Nash even came to Suns. So he did not make them into all stars. They were just amazing and deserving players and it was obvious from the start.

While i disagree with voter fatigue, it is real. So I dont see Jokić winning regardless of what he does as long as there is a worthy candidate and we definitely have a few. If everything stays as is, I see Tatum as next MVP.

[BelgradeNugget]

Sure, but that doesn't make it right. Why punish players for the voters screwing up their previous ballots?

Giannis didn't win his 3rd strait because Jokic was more deserving that year and won 90% of 1st place votes. It was only question should it be unanimous or not. That is the simple fact.
If anyone deserve it more than Jokic this year he should win it.
BTW, LeBron didn't win his 3rd in 2011 because he didn't deserve it. Rose did.

Rose didn’t deserve the 2010-2011 season mvp. In a way with the way the nba has sped up games to allow more scoring

What rose did in 2010 season is equivalent to what Tatum is doing in this current 2022 season. So Tatum should win over Jokic by a landslide using your criteria.

Lebron was the far better player than rose in 2010. Voters didn’t want to give him a 3rd straight mvp. Lebron better shooting percentage. Same 3 point field goals. Better efficiency. More points. More rebounds. Same assists. Lebron was simply greater in 2010 season than rose.

Jokic has to get the nuggets to 62 plus wins to be in consideration.

Or else I think Giannis if the bucks gets 57 wins will get mvp. For some reason. I don’t think Tatum has any shot of mvp even if Boston wins 65 games.

LeBron's 2010-2011 season was embarrassing underachievement. He started the year on Miami introduction with famous not 1, not 2, not 3, but...sitting next to arguably top 5 player Dwyane Wade, and top 20 player Chris Bosh. If you join (create) super-team expectations are super-high. The year before with Cleveland Cavaliers he won 61 games. In 2010-2011 he won 58 games, Heat was 2nd in East after Chicago Bulls. Bulls won 41 games in 2009-10, and made jump to 62 wins in 2010-11, led by Derrick Rose.
So to simplify for MVP people measure what you achieved, relative to expectations.

Edit: I agree that Nuggets have to have the best record in the NBA (not sure about number) to win it.

[cam24thomas]

Rose carried the Bulls offense a lot more than LeBron carried the Heat offense (LeBron didn't), that is for sure.
I see why Rose won MVP, and it wasn't just because of the standings.
If the Heat had finished tied with the Bulls that year, Rose would still have won MVP.

[moderndarwin]

The Joker love fest in here is surprising. He’s a great player but flawed. His defense as a big is a true liability. And his offense is good but it’s obviously not translating to chips. He’s had plenty of good talent on his team and hasn’t been able to get them past Steph and Dubs. 3 time mvp that hasn’t won a ring that would have to unprecedented (and lame).

[Texas Chuck]

Giggles at anyone who thinks Joker isn't clearly one of three best players in the league. And giggles at anyone who thinks Steph Curry is only great because of winning titles on loaded teams. Curry would still have been great without getting to play with Dray and Klay and KD.

But its hilarious to look at the teams Steph played on and think oh he's way better than Jokic who hasn't played with talent remotely approaching that and think its all STeph and Joker responsible for the difference in team success.

The Nuggets are incredible when Joker is on the court and an absolute trainwreck when he is off. Penalizing him because of poor roster construction by his front office and poor play by his teammates is just beyond stupid.

[Duke4life831]

The Joker love fest in here is surprising. He’s a great player but flawed. His defense as a big is a true liability. And his offense is good but it’s obviously not translating to chips. He’s had plenty of good talent on his team and hasn’t been able to get them past Steph and Dubs. 3 time mvp that hasn’t won a ring that would have to unprecedented (and lame).

He’s had Plenty of good talent on his teams to win a championship? He’s yet to play with an all star in his career. Jokic with no all stars should be expected to get by one of the most dominant dynasties?

We have definitely reached the point where we have lost the plot. Again this is a thread for the 2022-2023 regular season MVP…

[slick_watts]

jokic is criminally underappreciated. the team is like, 19pp100 better offensively when he's on the court lol. the nuggets are beating teams by 10pp100 when he's in and losing by 13pp100 when he's on the bench. jokic has no control over the latter.

he's taken the lead over everyone else in most impact metrics. he's the best player in the league.

[Feed Your Head]

When Jokic is on the court, their net rating would be the best in basketball, by a lot.

When Jokic sits, their net rating would be the worst in basketball, by a lot.

I love Tatum, and think he’s been mvp worthy so far, but Jokic has been the best player in the league, and even more mvp worthy.

[ty 4191]

jokic is criminally underappreciated. the team is like, 19pp100 better offensively when he's on the court lol. the nuggets are beating teams by 10pp100 when he's in and losing by 13pp100 when he's on the bench. jokic has no control over the latter.

he's taken the lead over everyone else in most impact metrics. he's the best player in the league.

+23.3 On/Off Per 100 Possessions. That's light years ahead of everyone else this year!!