NBA players are better than ever, despite what the legends say

[GreatWhiteStiff]

Main difference now is that there is far more international talent, rules are completely different now so what skills work best are different but athletically they were the same. Chucking 3s isn't a special talent, guys back then could do the exact something but their asses would get stuck to the bench taking a desperate shot like that. Lets see these guys dance around the lane with somebody literally hanging on their hip. Defense basically doesn't exist now.

People who stan current players or were too young to see what came before need to stop being so defensive, its pathetic

The guys back then couldn't shoot threes, that's one reason they didn't. I mean they never practiced from that range, it wasn't considered a good shot for almost everyone in the beginning, and then just specialists. I mean there are exceptions like Larry Bird who could shoot, but chose not to, even though his coaches either should've or would've encouraged it. Oddly enough Antoine Walker shot a lot of threes, wasn't particularly efficient from there or inside the arc, OR at the free throw line and was rewarded for it contractually (though his decision making off the court was "questionable" as well) and that was before the three point revolution as he started his nba career like 25 years ago.

[BostonCouchGM]

rules changes make it impossible to compare across generations in almost every sport except soccer. It's especially dumb in the major sports though where offense has been promoted and offensive numbers have exploded. At least old heads like me have actually lived through prior generations so we know when this generation is being hyperbolic and laughably wrong.

[Pachinko_]

rules changes make it impossible to compare across generations in almost every sport except soccer. It's especially dumb in the major sports though where offense has been promoted and offensive numbers have exploded. At least old heads like me have actually lived through prior generations so we know when this generation is being hyperbolic and laughably wrong.

ok I'm an old head as well. But from what I can see "this generation" have many different opinions. Criticisms seem to come from old and young guys alike.

[bdp31770]

Players are more athletic now, but the main reason is because decades ago each team had three or four big man types that they don't have now. The Joe Kleine, Rick mahorn, bill wennington, etc types have been replaced by more athletic swingman or combo forward types. The NBA champion bulls of the early '90s had about four of these types of players, none of whom would be in the NBA nowadays.

[JoseRizal]

It is expected that in time, any product should improve. However, it's not totally because the generation of players now are better.

- Advancement in technology (shoes, therapy, workout equipment)
- Evolution of rules, which favors the offense
- Refs allowing travels and carry and gets influenced by foul-baiting and arm flailing

These are just some of the factors that contributed to the perceived bias.

A lot will agree that MJ will always be considered as the better player than Dr. J, but Jordan himself said that if not for the influence Julius & Michael Thompson had on him, he wouldn't be able to be the great player that he is.

I don't agree that nostalgia is to blame, it's more of the disrespect that the old players are getting with the young NBA fans, to a certain extent players nowadays, that triggers this debate.

In the end, if not for those who paved the way for the game to evolve into a global sport that we all enjoy and love, then this wouldn't even be a discussion right now.

[Vampirate]

rules changes make it impossible to compare across generations in almost every sport except soccer. It's especially dumb in the major sports though where offense has been promoted and offensive numbers have exploded. At least old heads like me have actually lived through prior generations so we know when this generation is being hyperbolic and laughably wrong.

Baseball is the weird exception to this rule, it's the sport with the most analytics yet were in a pitchers era.

[PedroFlu]

If you look at how the 3 guys played yesterday - Jokic, Giannis, Doncic - you know this is a truly special era.

There's also Embiid, Tatum, Zion.

And also Morant, Shai, Garland, Mitchell, Booker, Edwards, KAT, Trae, Haliburton, Fox, Sabonis, Brunson, Jaylen Brown, Markkanen, Ingram, Lamelo, Banchero.

And also LBJ, Curry, KD, Kawhi, Butler, AD, PG, Lillard, Harden.

Are we gonna pretend we're living normal times? Is the NBA washed or it's simply pretty damn good? Don't take it for granted.

[dhsilv2]

Main difference now is that there is far more international talent, rules are completely different now so what skills work best are different but athletically they were the same. Chucking 3s isn't a special talent, guys back then could do the exact something but their asses would get stuck to the bench taking a desperate shot like that. Lets see these guys dance around the lane with somebody literally hanging on their hip. Defense basically doesn't exist now.

People who stan current players or were too young to see what came before need to stop being so defensive, its pathetic

The guys back then couldn't shoot threes, that's one reason they didn't. I mean they never practiced from that range, it wasn't considered a good shot for almost everyone in the beginning, and then just specialists. I mean there are exceptions like Larry Bird who could shoot, but chose not to, even though his coaches either should've or would've encouraged it. Oddly enough Antoine Walker shot a lot of threes, wasn't particularly efficient from there or inside the arc, OR at the free throw line and was rewarded for it contractually (though his decision making off the court was "questionable" as well) and that was before the three point revolution as he started his nba career like 25 years ago.

Walker isn't that odd. He was coached by Pitino in college and then with Boston. Rick was one of the VERY early adopters to spamming 3's. On those same boston teams (and at kentucky) Walter McCarty was an even taller guy bombing 3's from that era.

[C_Alejandro]

If you look at how the 3 guys played yesterday - Jokic, Giannis, Doncic - you know this is a truly special era.

There's also Embiid, Tatum, Zion.

And also Morant, Shai, Garland, Mitchell, Booker, Edwards, KAT, Trae, Haliburton, Fox, Sabonis, Brunson, Jaylen Brown, Markkanen, Ingram, Lamelo, Banchero.

And also LBJ, Curry, KD, Kawhi, Butler, AD, PG, Lillard, Harden.

Are we gonna pretend we're living normal times? Is the NBA washed or it's simply pretty damn good? Don't take it for granted.

These aren’t normal times. We’re truly blessed to see this level of sheer talent.

I don’t know how the world will look like in 2040. I can only see what’s in front of me. And to disregard the current era to hype up a bygone era is unacceptable.

We need to fire the current NBA pundits, including Stephen A Smith, Skip Bayless, Shaq, and the others. They’re completely out of touch. They don’t even talk strategy, and they’re caught up in Jordan hero worship.

The NBA needs to understand that Stephen A Smith is detrimental to the current NBA product. He wants to suck up to retired old players, while ignoring the young guys today.

Fire them all

[C_Alejandro]

Defense and rim protection is also at some of the worst level ever seen.

This year, all 30 teams are shooting at a ridiculous clip in the restricted area. Denver is at the top at 72% and OKC is at the bottom at 62%

Compare that to 1997 where the best team was 61% and the worst team was 44% at the rim. The best team at the rim back then would be the worst in the league today.

Its easy to get high percentage buckets when there is no resistance at the rim.

False

The reason why teams shoot at a high percentage at the rim is because teams run spread pick-and-roll offences, and they opt for cuts and back door screens which lead to higher percentage shots at the rim.

Back in the 90s, players would post-up and go 1-on-1 with each other. Nowadays, you’ll have a screen set and the player cuts to the rim for a layup. Shooters in the corner also prevent help defenders from getting too close

Again, WATCH THE GAME TAPE. The tape never lies. There’s a reason why players are efficient at the rim and it’s not because of “lack of defence.” It’s due to the style of play. Players didn’t magically forget how to block shots

[C_Alejandro]

Why can't we see that it's both? Yes players in the league today have a higher skill level then ever before as social media / Youtube and the general popularity of basketball has increased and much more kids are learning to play bball now. You can see pretty good players in even pickup games these days - however, can't we also say the NBA has gone too far in allowing these skill players to show off their skills by neutering defense.

I saw the Lakers game recently and Hachimura had a bunch of touch falls called on him for daring to play any kind of defense. What used to be no calls where defense and offense are in the same space, is now a foul on the defender. Moving screens have become normalized. Palming the ball has become normalized. It seems the only legitimate defense that is accepted by the NBA today is the charge call (and to even get this call players are forced to flop to ensure Refs see the charge).

These players are highly skilled and playing at the highest level, and they aren't allowed to be guarded too much - of course 40pt games become the norm and 50-60pt games start happening more often.

False

Answer this question: Why did the NBA in the 90s prevent players from playing zone defences?

If anything, the 80s and 90s neutered the defences. Only in 2001 were those archaic rules thrown out. Nowadays, you can actually set traps and use sophisticated defensive tactics

People talk about handchecking. Let’s talk about zones

[C_Alejandro]

NBA might be one of the only sports where the fans cant admit that the players have become more talented and better. As if globalization and vasts amount of resources being poured into the game wouldnt increase the talent level. Its crazy. We also have some ridiculous revisionist history of how 'violent' the game was.

I watch full games from the 90's and see guys constantly with hands on hips or knees off ball (both offense and defense) doing absolutely nothing. It's honestly wild to watch

I agree 100%

Players in the 90s would routinely just stand around and take a breather while watching their teammate going 1-on-1 against the defender. There were no close outs. Barely any screen action. They were just standing around

Game tape is the great equalizer. I challenge anyone to watch a full game from the 90s and tell me with a straight face that those guys were more talented than today’s players

[BostonCouchGM]

rules changes make it impossible to compare across generations in almost every sport except soccer. It's especially dumb in the major sports though where offense has been promoted and offensive numbers have exploded. At least old heads like me have actually lived through prior generations so we know when this generation is being hyperbolic and laughably wrong.

Baseball is the weird exception to this rule, it's the sport with the most analytics yet were in a pitchers era.

Everyone is juiced to the gills and throws 95-100 with multiple pitching changes, defensive shifts and batters not caring if they strike out. MLB is a joke, nearly as bad as the NBA. But you could never compare across generations in baseball because of the color barrier, wars, raising and lowering mounds, steroids, corked bats, juiced balls, small ball parks, etc.

[BostonCouchGM]

players aren't more athletic and skilled. There's just different skills and different types of athleticism. Back then you had plodding 4s but they had high BBIQ, could set screens, hit the boards, protect the rim and had back to the basket moves. Those 4s have been replaced with lighter and faster guys but smaller and weaker. These guys can run the floor and shoot but can't defend the rim, rebound or play with their backs to the basket. Different skills. Not better or worse. Different athletes, not better or worse. Elite guys then would be elite now and vice versa

[Heej]

Can you imagine smalls venturing into the paint and getting levelled as an accepted defensive tactic?

Can you imagine that didn't happen anywhere near as often as people of your ilk want us to believe?

[picko]

We haven't had any league expansion in 18 years and minimal league expansion in 27 years. Over the same period, the game has grown globally, leading to an influx of elite global talent. By comparison, the 1980s and 1990s - the so-called golden era of NBA basketball - was primarily a domestic competition. The talent pool today is just so much deeper and that to me is completely incongruous with the idea that the league is now worse than it was in the 1980s and 1990s.

[Sedale Threatt]

players aren't more athletic and skilled. There's just different skills and different types of athleticism. Back then you had plodding 4s but they had high BBIQ, could set screens, hit the boards, protect the rim and had back to the basket moves. Those 4s have been replaced with lighter and faster guys but smaller and weaker. These guys can run the floor and shoot but can't defend the rim, rebound or play with their backs to the basket. Different skills. Not better or worse. Different athletes, not better or worse. Elite guys then would be elite now and vice versa

A portion of 4s/5s had those skill sets, which would probably still be valuable today to varying degrees. But to a large extent stiffs were just stiffs, meant to wrangle with other stiffs because coaches were far too entrenched in the paradigm of the day, the 3-point shot was grossly undervalued as a novelty and creatives like Don Nelson were looked at like weirdo mad scientists for playing small lineups. When in fact, just like football coaches who favored spread offenses before they became all the rage, they were far ahead of their time.

Just go back and review some of the rosters from the late 90s and early 00s at some of the complete wastes of spaces on NBA rosters. An example: Three of the four division winners in 1997-98 started Greg Ostertag, Jim McIlvaine and Luc Longley. You can make a lot of criticisms of this era, like you can with any other. But personally, I would be very, very happy to never watch goons like that on an NBA court again. Thinning out that particular herd has been one of the best aspects of the current day.

[ItsDanger]

Go watch MJ highlights.

[HMFFL]

Everybody is an elite talent when they're allowed to take three steps, carry the ball, and only play offense. This is what some fans believe is a good product.

Former players should focus their attention on Silver and call him out instead of the current players.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

[Ontario]

This NBA season has the deepest level of talent we’ve ever seen. We have players from Jokic, Embiid, Luka, Steph, Ja, Kyrie, and many other talents. Even the role players are incredibly versatile and skilled.

Yet every single day, I see constant comments from older heads like Charles Oakley saying that Giannis wouldn’t make an NBA roster in the 1990s. Or that Steph would get bullied by the likes of Isiah Thomas

I’m all for respecting the NBA older-heads, but no other sport does this. NFL and soccer fans aren’t constantly listening to legends denigrating the current game. They barely even do analysis anymore.

I see guys like SHAQ who didn’t even know who Rui Hachimura was, despite his literal job being paid to talk about basketball. Yet this same guy will denigrate the current talent and say they’re “soft.”

It’s honestly killing the product. Fans believe what these legends say, and their nostalgia leads them to believe that NBA superstars today would struggle in the 1990s. That’s false. The opposite is true. Yet I’m seeing 21 year olds who falsely believe that they missed out on the golden era of basketball.

Again, no other sport does this. Basketball is beset by this cancer of nostalgia bias and Jordan worship, and it needs to stop if this sport is to thrive.

You are correct in your assumption that yes people who undermine superstars today as if they could not compete in past years is hyperbole. That does not at all support the claim that you then follow it up with that "NBA players are better then ever", that also is equally an exaggeration. Guys today in general put way too much focus on pure shooting and not enough on the other fundamentals of the game, and that's not their fault, that's just what the game has evolved into. The league having its best shooting period ever and its highest scoring period ever does not make the players the best they have ever been or the most talented players have ever been.

Truth is Steph in the 90's would have topped out somewhere between his Dad's career and Reggie Millers career, which is by all means still a great NBA player, it was just literally a different game at the time. Giannis totally would have had a career, they may have groomed him more in development as a wing instead of a center just because of what other "bigs" there were to play against but I mean Cliff Robinson and Rashard Lewis both had excellent careers he could have developed along that path and maybe surpassed those guys with better man to man defense.