What the HELL was the NBA/Silver thinking involving Karl Malone so much in all-star weekend?

[dhsilv2]

You're splitting hairs over the use of the word "prepubescent?" Fine, but according to every definition and societal standard, she was a child at the time of inception. Omitting the word prepubescent doesn't change the result, which is should be the more important point.

A child is a young human being below the age of puberty. So it's literally the defining difference here.

A child is defined as a young human being below the age of puberty or below the legal age of majority.

When Karl Malone attended Louisiana Tech and impregnated Gloria Bell, the age of consent was 17. In the legal context, Karl Malone violated Louisiana's statutory rape statute (e.g., he illegally had sex with someone Louisiana acknowledges as underage). Bell's family could have pressed statutory rape charges, but they didn't because, according to Gloria, Malone was "a neighborhood kid." After refusing to engage in his son's life or pay child support, Malone eventually agreed to an out-of-court settlement with the Bell family a few years later. Malone eventually became involved with his son, Demetress Bell, once he was an established vet in the NFL.

Bottomline: He raped an underage girl, and the only reason he went on to enjoy an HoF NBA career is because Bell's parents chose to drop the charges against him. Karl Malone is a scumbag, period. He allegedly committed several other truly awful acts throughout his playing career, and I don't understand why he's honored instead of summarily condemned.

Age of majority is not related to the discuss of if one is or isn't a pedophile. The rest of this is irrelevant. Nobody thinks this is ok or wasn't statutory rape.

[Mamba81p]

A lot of closeted pedophiles on this thread. The world is a scary place

[infinite11285]

A child is a young human being below the age of puberty. So it's literally the defining difference here.

A child is defined as a young human being below the age of puberty or below the legal age of majority.

When Karl Malone attended Louisiana Tech and impregnated Gloria Bell, the age of consent was 17. In the legal context, Karl Malone violated Louisiana's statutory rape statute (e.g., he illegally had sex with someone Louisiana acknowledges as underage). Bell's family could have pressed statutory rape charges, but they didn't because, according to Gloria, Malone was "a neighborhood kid." After refusing to engage in his son's life or pay child support, Malone eventually agreed to an out-of-court settlement with the Bell family a few years later. Malone eventually became involved with his son, Demetress Bell, once he was an established vet in the NFL.

Bottomline: He raped an underage girl, and the only reason he went on to enjoy an HoF NBA career is because Bell's parents chose to drop the charges against him. Karl Malone is a scumbag, period. He allegedly committed several other truly awful acts throughout his playing career, and I don't understand why he's honored instead of summarily condemned.

Age of majority is not related to the discuss of if one is or isn't a pedophile. The rest of this is irrelevant. Nobody thinks this is ok or wasn't statutory rape.

The age of majority is relevant when defining who constitutes as a child, which was my point.

I intentionally didn't use the word pedophile to describe Karl Malone, although he's widely acknowledged as one, because you've been excessively critical of the use of that word in this thread, too. None of it changes the fact that he impregnated an underage girl.

[Nate505]

A lot of closeted pedophiles on this thread.

Didn't realize they sold brushes that broad.

[Pharmcat]

A lot of closeted pedophiles on this thread. The world is a scary place

This thread is eye opening

[oldncreaky]

No, people misusing these terms are doing it. Just like when DiCaprio gets called a pedo for dating a woman who is 19.

There's a significant difference between an adult being romantically involved with a 19-year-old (legal adult) and a prepubescent 12-year-old.

Agree, but this was NOT a prepubescent 12 year old which we know as she had a kid!

The point I'm getting at is this is the very reason why the NBA doesn't want to touch this stuff. We don't agree as a society on what is or isn't wrong. We do have a term, pedophile, which is distinctly for people attractive prepubescent children. When we use it to describe anything we PERSONALLY feel is wrong, it's a problem. We can't even agree on what the age of consent is. It's still legal in some states to marry a 14 year old. Meanwhile two 17 years olds having sex in a state can BOTH be sexual assaulting each other. And yes, we have people calling Leo a pedophile for dating a woman who's 19 despite it clearly being legal everywhere in the country.

Words have mean and this topic is incredibly complicated. I'd hope everyone agrees what Malone did was wrong. But I'm also pretty sure the NBA doesn't want to try and set some rules or qualifications around because it's just too complicated for an entertainment company to step into.

I agree that Malone's actions aren't admirable either then or now, and that it's problematic for the NBA to recognise him so publicly given their other social stances. But I have a lot more concern for the child abandonment (not supporting the child) than for the sex crimes labels thrown about, and you're absolutely right that the legal issue is murky and throwing around "pedophile" doesn't clarify a complicated issue.

Every state is free to set its own laws about age of the age of consent and marriage, and I'm not aware of any jurisdiction that recognises "statutory rape" within a marriage, and their are literally thousands of minors seduced/coerced/forced into marriage with an adult every year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_marriage_in_the_United_States

In 8 states, there is no minimum age for marriage i.e. technically a newborn can be married off with parental consent.

"Between 2000 and 2018, nearly 232,474 minors were legally married in the United States.[13] The vast majority of child marriages (reliable sources vary between 78% and 95%) were between a minor girl and an adult man.[13][14][15] In many cases, minors in the U.S. may be married when they are under the age of sexual consent, which varies from 16 to 18 depending on the state.[16] In some states, minors cannot legally divorce or leave their spouse, and domestic violence shelters typically do not accept minors."

If we're going to get outraged about adult men with underage girls, the thousands of instances occurring right now are probably a better target than one instance from 40 years ago.

[Sprewell4Three]

This thing regarding Malone sounds like fake out rage to me. The girls family never filed charges to Malone. The bastard kid became an NFL player and has made amends with Malone. But yet we have randoms on a basketball forum irate over a situation that was dealt with 30+ yrs ago. Y’all sad.


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[Nate505]

Mike Tyson was arrested for raping a woman in the early 90s. His former trainer pulled a gun on Tyson for inappropriately touching his underage daughter, yet people love Mike Tyson.

Who 'loves' Mike Tyson? He's a boxing legend and one of the most feared men in American sports history. Acknowledging that, or being interested in some of the other things he does/says doesn't mean we 'love' him as a person.

I don't know about 'love,' but after his conviction he managed to get his own animated show on Comedy Central, have a sort of one man special show on HBO, has started a fairly well publicized cannabis company, was a guest on two different professional wrestling promotions, and has made numerous media appearances across the board.

Does the public at large love him? No, but I would say he has a pretty big fanbase, probably due to a mixture of his past success and his somewhat quirky personality that many people find endearing.

On a general note, I've always found it odd that Karl Malone's past actions don't seem to get a lot of heat, but it's probably for a few reasons:

1) In terms of celebrity, he's just not that prominent of one. NBA fans know who he is, and he did a few things outside the NBA bubble in his life, but it's not like he's some sort of household name. And most things he did outside the NBA bubble were 20+ years ago. Which leads to point #2.

2) What he did was like about 40 years ago now, and the public really only heard about it 20 years ago. Usually the longer something took place, the less outrage there is about it. That depends on the offense of course, but that's the general rule.

3) The girl or the family didn't press charges. I won't go into their motives for it, but they didn't, and so he has no criminal record for it.

4) Malone himself probably isn't seen as some cold calculating psychopath who was out trying to sleep with underage girls, but more of a dumb country bumpkin who didn't think about what he was doing. That's not an excuse, especially not a legal one if the family would have pressed charges, but in general when celebrities get heat for things their motivations are taken into account.

[Sprewell4Three]

A lot of closeted pedophiles on this thread. The world is a scary place

You should be more irate over the girl and her family for never filing charges. You over here in this thread talking big and bad trying to be the girls defendant is crazy to me. You don’t know this woman from a paper bag. Now you’re calling people in this thread closeted pedophiles?


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[Edrees]

It's insane the NBA's reception to this versus what Ime Udoka did but how much worse what Malone did was.

[JonFromVA]

Nobody is required to move on, but also nobody is required not to. The girl's family wasn't interested in pressing criminal charges, and the state apparently didn't choose to do so on their own; they just wanted to make sure he provided for his child. Years later he even connected with said child.

[Frozzy]

A lot of closeted pedophiles on this thread. The world is a scary place

This thread gives me strong Neogaf vibes

ifykyk

[KyRo23]

A lot of closeted pedophiles on this thread. The world is a scary place

You should be more irate over the girl and her family for never filing charges. You over here in this thread talking big and bad trying to be the girls defendant is crazy to me. You don’t know this woman from a paper bag. Now you’re calling people in this thread closeted pedophiles?


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Yeah.... no

I mean you can be upset about them not filing charges, but you really can't blame how a victim decides to go forward. That is just 100% wrong. If someone has a crime committed against them and they decide to not press charges and move on, people should be MORE upset with the victim?

You don't have to know a 12 year old to know that this is Malone's fault. I honestly can't believe you just said that

[UglyBugBall]

Who 'loves' Mike Tyson? He's a boxing legend and one of the most feared men in American sports history. Acknowledging that, or being interested in some of the other things he does/says doesn't mean we 'love' him as a person.

He’s rehabilitated his public image. He’s been in movies, tv shows, roasts, podcasts. No one even brings up his past.

Yeah Mike Tyson might be the most rehabilitated celebrity in history. 20 years ago he was mostly hated for the things he had done. Now he is this beloved figure in blockbuster movies and doing friendly interviews from late night to the biggest podcasts in the world. It is like society just decided one day to flip a switch and decide his bad things didn't matter. In some ways the anti Malone since 20 years ago very few people talked about Malone's crimes.

Well first of all, Tyson actually went to prison for his crimes. He already paid for them. Are we supposed to live in a world where after you do your time behind bars, you have to spend the rest of your life doing 'time' in society too? I don't think Tyson is a fair comparison to Malone. Society didn't just 'forget' about his crimes. Society punished him for it by sending him to prison. That's how this works.

[Cavsfansince84]

It's insane the NBA's reception to this versus what Ime Udoka did but how much worse what Malone did was.

You guys are leaving two major factors here in terms of the nba and public perception of Malone which are:

a. I would bet 95% of nba fans aren't even aware of the sex with 13 year old girl story
b. It happened almost 40 years ago and generally speaking that matters whenever someone does something we think of as bad. I think there is more outrage any time something involves a young girl/boy but I think from the pov of the league the fact he was never charged and it never really came out until more recently means it can be swept under the rug.

[dhsilv2]

A child is defined as a young human being below the age of puberty or below the legal age of majority.

When Karl Malone attended Louisiana Tech and impregnated Gloria Bell, the age of consent was 17. In the legal context, Karl Malone violated Louisiana's statutory rape statute (e.g., he illegally had sex with someone Louisiana acknowledges as underage). Bell's family could have pressed statutory rape charges, but they didn't because, according to Gloria, Malone was "a neighborhood kid." After refusing to engage in his son's life or pay child support, Malone eventually agreed to an out-of-court settlement with the Bell family a few years later. Malone eventually became involved with his son, Demetress Bell, once he was an established vet in the NFL.

Bottomline: He raped an underage girl, and the only reason he went on to enjoy an HoF NBA career is because Bell's parents chose to drop the charges against him. Karl Malone is a scumbag, period. He allegedly committed several other truly awful acts throughout his playing career, and I don't understand why he's honored instead of summarily condemned.

Age of majority is not related to the discuss of if one is or isn't a pedophile. The rest of this is irrelevant. Nobody thinks this is ok or wasn't statutory rape.

The age of majority is relevant when defining who constitutes as a child, which was my point.

I intentionally didn't use the word pedophile to describe Karl Malone, although he's widely acknowledged as one, because you've been excessively critical of the use of that word in this thread, too. None of it changes the fact that he impregnated an underage girl.

If we're looking at age of Majority in the context that you're quoting me. You'd be stating that anyone who at any age had sex with someone under 18 is a pedophile. The rest is not related to what I've been discussing which is in the need to use accurate language, which carries over the complexity of this issue from the NBA and Silver's point of view. They clearly don't want to create a bigger issue down the road by being short sighted here.

[Hsker4Life]

Why? he didn't kill anybody. Yeah, a grown man impregnating a young girl is never good, but when it comes down to it he's owned up to his mistake and made things right with the son that came from that mistake.

That really should be the end of it as far as us fans discussing basketball online are concerned, but nah because everyone on the internet feels "entitled" to hang on to hate over things that has nothing to do with them. With that being said, I hope to see more of Karl Malone. Like it or not he's still the greatest player in Utah Jazz history along with John Stockton. So he should get to be up there with the legends just like the rest of those legends.

Dude, he raped a 12 year old girl.

What is wrong with you?

What Karl Malone did was 100% wrong but he never RAPED anyone.

Even though there are many odd hypocrites who will tell you that someone that age can’t consent to sex but can consent to having a sex change, what he did was 100% rape. 12 year olds cannot consent to sex with an adult.

[UglyBugBall]

Mike Tyson was arrested for raping a woman in the early 90s. His former trainer pulled a gun on Tyson for inappropriately touching his underage daughter, yet people love Mike Tyson.

Who 'loves' Mike Tyson? He's a boxing legend and one of the most feared men in American sports history. Acknowledging that, or being interested in some of the other things he does/says doesn't mean we 'love' him as a person.

I don't know about 'love,' but after his conviction he managed to get his own animated show on Comedy Central, have a sort of one man special show on HBO, has started a fairly well publicized cannabis company, was a guest on two different professional wrestling promotions, and has made numerous media appearances across the board.

Does the public at large love him? No, but I would say he has a pretty big fanbase, probably due to a mixture of his past success and his somewhat quirky personality that many people find endearing.

I'll agree that Tyson has a 'fanbase' for the reasons you covered. He has a strangely interesting personality combined with a legendary career and eternal questions of what if's that fuel his legacy today. I also think there's an element of compassion for Tyson, because people by and large know that he's had a really rough life and you see some of that play out in his behavior. I don't think that's the same as loving Tyson the person. I think there's a degree of affection for him, but with the understanding that he's a deeply flawed human being and nobody's role model.

[GSWFan1994]

When Karl Malone attended Louisiana Tech and impregnated Gloria Bell, the age of consent was 17. In the legal context, Karl Malone violated Louisiana's statutory rape statute (e.g., he illegally had sex with someone Louisiana acknowledges as underage). Bell's family could have pressed statutory rape charges, but they didn't because, according to Gloria, Malone was "a neighborhood kid." After refusing to engage in his son's life or pay child support, Malone eventually agreed to an out-of-court settlement with the Bell family a few years later. Malone eventually became involved with his son, Demetress Bell, once he was an established vet in the NFL.

Bottomline: He raped an underage girl, and the only reason he went on to enjoy an HoF NBA career is because Bell's parents chose to drop the charges against him. Karl Malone is a scumbag, period. He allegedly committed several other truly awful acts throughout his playing career, and I don't understand why he's honored instead of summarily condemned.

I didn't know about that. What did he do apart from the underage girl case?

[YogurtProducer]

The cancel crowd is too funny. If Malone asks me for directions to the supermarket, I tell him where it is that means I SUPPORT child rape.

Seriously, where does it end. We can have a discussion about whether Malone should be judging a dunk contest but we're not going to have a constructive one if any time someone says something for Malone that means he supports raping kids.

Telling Karl where Wal-mart is, and celebrating him, are two very different things.

Can we differentiate between celebrating Malone the person vs Malone the Utah basketball player? I don't think anyone celebrates him as a person. I think 99% of us can agree he's no role model, and there hasn't been any evidence of him having atoned for what he did, as far as we are aware of, to change that fact.

I'm a fan of Michael Jackson the performer/entertainer. But even if you don't believe the allegations against him (and that's a big if), there are so many other aspects of his life that make him an incredibly poor role model that I would never celebrate him as a 'person' and would never want my kids to look up to him as a sort of role model.

I don't think the NBA was celebrating Karl the man. They were celebrating Karl the all-time great basketball player. I'm not sure how pretending that he's not changes that reality. We can acknowledge the player without celebrating the person is all I'm saying. We can do that without minimizing his crimes and being honest about how bad they were when it comes up for discussion.

It is pretty difficult to separate Karl the basketball player from Karl the man. Pretty much we are saying his basketball achievements hold more weight than his rapes.