Wembanyama. I'm concerned

[JustBuzzin]

I'm concerned why the hell is he on damn near every Nat'l tv game. The NBA trying to force him down our throats.

He's exciting to watch don't get me wrong, but they should put more teams on the schedule. Spurs are a bad team right now.

[DoctorX]

He doesn't seem to have the personal characteristics to be great. By that I mean, he doesn't seem even slightly "crazy". Not sure how you can be great without being a bit off and having that hole that must be filled. By that I mean Jordan, James, Kobe, Kareem, Bird... that overwhelming drive/need to prove it.

Duncan wasn't crazy and he was great.

I think that's more of an apt comparison. And yes, just not great-est.

Duncan is a top 10 player of all time. I don't know how he can't be one of the greatest. He was the GOAT PF.

[BrooklynDynasty]

My intuition leads me to believe that given his apparent need for a lot of teammate help and shortcomings on impacting a game offensively, that even projecting standard development, and the Spurs unlikely being ever able to assemble a roster as good as Parker/Ginobili/Leonard around him, that he would be lucky just to have half of Duncan's career. That's still probably a HoF player and in the top 50 of all time, but GOAT trajectory is not going to happen

[Bum Adebayo]

The simple fact about him needing a proper PG and all of that, shows me he is just not that can't miss prospect, he will probably still be a great player and all that, but the hype was never justified at all, especially his offense, will probably never be a guy that you can run the ball though him in playoffs. He could still be MVP and all that eventually, depending on the competition, but more in the mold of a Giannis or an Embiid compared to a Lebron or a Jokic or a Curry.

[ropjhk]

That and his poor shooting numbers in the French league, yes. It’s literally all the data we have and the only thing we can use to make predictions.

We also have game footage to make predictions and the way he moves on the court, leverages his size and plays defense is more than enough to predict that he's going to be a great player.

I never said he won’t be a great player. But this is supposedly the greatest prospect of all time, and if he can’t shoot he’s not going to live up to that hype.

Javale McGee moves extremely well on the court, too. But without elite skill it doesn’t amount to much.

You said that all we had to go on for predictions was the data. I'm just pointing out that you missed the obvious by not mentioning game footage as another input for predictions.

[BrooklynDynasty]

The simple fact about him needing a proper PG and all of that, shows me he is just not that can't miss prospect, he will probably still be a great player and all that, but the hype was never justified at all, especially his offense, will probably never be a guy that you can run the ball though him in playoffs. He could still be MVP and all that eventually, depending on the competition, but more in the mold of a Giannis or an Embiid compared to a Lebron or a Jokic or a Curry.

This.

No one talks about MJ, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq needing a "proper PG"

[zero rings]

We also have game footage to make predictions and the way he moves on the court, leverages his size and plays defense is more than enough to predict that he's going to be a great player.

I never said he won’t be a great player. But this is supposedly the greatest prospect of all time, and if he can’t shoot he’s not going to live up to that hype.

Javale McGee moves extremely well on the court, too. But without elite skill it doesn’t amount to much.

You said that all we had to go on for predictions was the data. I'm just pointing out that you missed the obvious by not mentioning game footage as another input for predictions.

The “eye test” is only useful for contextualizing the data. On its own it’s unreliable because most people only focus on what they want to see.

Wemby is objectively a bad shooter based on the actual results. Watching game footage and marveling at the way he moves doesn’t change that.

[Yoshun]

The simple fact about him needing a proper PG and all of that, shows me he is just not that can't miss prospect, he will probably still be a great player and all that, but the hype was never justified at all, especially his offense, will probably never be a guy that you can run the ball though him in playoffs. He could still be MVP and all that eventually, depending on the competition, but more in the mold of a Giannis or an Embiid compared to a Lebron or a Jokic or a Curry.

This.

No one talks about MJ, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq needing a "proper PG"

Yes, and no. I hear what you guys are saying, but I'm not sure that's the whole story.

MJ is on another level. He was often one of the primary ball handlers on his team. Wilt, Kareem, and Shaq were different cases though. Shaq always had a top notch guard with him (Penny, Kobe, Wade), so the discussion of him needing one never took place. Wilt and Kareem were superstars without primary guards. However Wilt only put up 13ppg as a rookie ( he also put up 18rpg and 4.5apg). They both needed really good guards to win
though. They would have been HOFs anyway though, that's true, but would they have won? Would we still think of them the same way?

That said, I agree Wembanyama is not on their level, they were better passers, which helps. He's still very young though.

[Vampirate]

The comparison to Durant on offense isn't super accurate imo. KD shot 87% from the FT line as a rookie, and was adjusting from a very short college 3-pt line to the NBA. KD is also a smoother athlete, Wemby is a step slower and doesn't really have much burst. I'm not convinced he can be a solid #1 or maybe even #2 on offense on a good team in the future.

That's great that he has all these skills for a 7'5'' guy, but he has a very small frame and I'm not quite sure what role he fits on offense. I'm seeing a glorified Porzingis/Gobert in his prime, which is def a great player but maybe a bit less than a lot us were expecting.

People are living way too much in the here and now.

For one, rookie KD is not better than current VW rookie trajectory.

Secondly, if VW works on his shooting, there's not a single player in the league that can guard him.

Thirdly, the same spiel that's being said about VW and the 'he can't lead the team to the championship as the main guy', has been said about

Giannis
Jokic
Probably KD
Probably Lebron
Steph (people doubted the whole 'you can win a championship with jump shooters as your main core')


Here's the thing, rookies are expected to have massive weaknesses.

It's obvious VW's greatest strength is also his biggest weakness.

Kobe once told in an interview that he defended KD a certain way because KD couldn't go left.

[tsherkin]

Wemby is objectively a bad shooter based on the actual results. Watching game footage and marveling at the way he moves doesn’t change that.

He's taking mostly above-break 3s (5.0 per game vs his 5.5 3PA/g) and he's shooting 30.9% there. That isn't great but it's a good start for a rookie. Dude gets less than 7% of his 3s from the corners, and he's additionally shooting 45.8% from 10-16 feet while hitting 76.6% at the line.

You're going to want to try again on this "objectively a bad shooter" business.

[zimpy27]

The simple fact about him needing a proper PG and all of that, shows me he is just not that can't miss prospect, he will probably still be a great player and all that, but the hype was never justified at all, especially his offense, will probably never be a guy that you can run the ball though him in playoffs. He could still be MVP and all that eventually, depending on the competition, but more in the mold of a Giannis or an Embiid compared to a Lebron or a Jokic or a Curry.

This.

No one talks about MJ, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq needing a "proper PG"

I get what you guys are saying but those prospects had many years in college. They were 2 years older when they entered the league.

[Hans1984]

This kid 19 and it's his first year in the NBA. Give him some time.

[tribulations]

reminder, kevin durant was very inefficient as a rook. just saying

I totally forgot this but you're so right. Wasn't he playing out of position at SG that season?

[tsherkin]

reminder, kevin durant was very inefficient as a rook. just saying

I totally forgot this but you're so right. Wasn't he playing out of position at SG that season?

Correct. Like Lebron was playing at PG and SG until basically his third season.

[zero rings]

Wemby is objectively a bad shooter based on the actual results. Watching game footage and marveling at the way he moves doesn’t change that.

He's taking mostly above-break 3s (5.0 per game vs his 5.5 3PA/g) and he's shooting 30.9% there. That isn't great but it's a good start for a rookie. Dude gets less than 7% of his 3s from the corners, and he's additionally shooting 45.8% from 10-16 feet while hitting 76.6% at the line.

You're going to want to try again on this "objectively a bad shooter" business.

You can try to rationalize it however you want, 28% from 3 on 5.5 attempts is terrible. His 33% shooting from 16ft-3 is also terrible. He’s pretty much the worst volume jump shooter in the NBA, but if you find that encouraging by all means keep drinking the kool aid.

[tsherkin]

You can try to rationalize it however you want, 28% from 3 on 5.5 attempts is terrible. His 33% shooting from 16ft-3 is also terrible. He’s pretty much the worst volume jump shooter in the NBA, but if you find that encouraging by all means keep drinking the kool aid.

If you want to aggressively misunderstand his ability, that's your business, for sure. But he's showing plenty to indicate that he isn't "objectively a bad shooter," which was your contention. His mid-range shooting is as relevant as his perimeter shooting, and you didn't specify. You just tried to full-blast on his shooting touch without accounting for the areas where he's actually doing well, because you're trying to crap on him. Yeah, he isn't prime KD or anything like that as a rookie, but he's showing all kinds of stuff... especially considering the poor environment in which he's playing.

C'mon, man, you know how the game works.

[Godymas]

the Spurs are literally the worst team in the league

like worse than the Wizards

desperately need a starting PG

[bkohler]

This thread is going to age so quickly.

[Vampirate]

reminder, kevin durant was very inefficient as a rook. just saying

I totally forgot this but you're so right. Wasn't he playing out of position at SG that season?

Correct. Like Lebron was playing at PG and SG until basically his third season.

Prospects like Lebron, KD and now Wemby are pretty much position less.

[tsherkin]

Prospects like Lebron, KD and now Wemby are pretty much position less.

How you deploy them, who you guard, what specific sets you run, it does actually matter. Particularly early on.