NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued)

[eyeatoma]

I hope Embiid wins a 2nd MVP actually.
The inevitable collapse in the playoffs afterwards will be glorious.

If he's injured again there will be a collapse. I'd love to see him healthy. Shame that his game and body doesn't allow for it very often.

[PistolPeteJR]

Well only AD played super fantastic but he is still behind Lebron overall this season.

Hali should move up to top 5 and Lebron should be top 10 MVP voting.

Well I didn’t ask about the game I asked about the whole IST and its impact on voting.

That said, I don’t see how Hali can be in front of LeBron in the voting so far this year. Offensively, tremendous impact (more than LBJ), sure, but so is LeBron’s, who also has very solid defensive impact, more so than Hali. Unless you’re arguing something like 5th and 6th or something like that?

Actually I would probably put Hali 6th/7th at most now that I think about it. Would not put him above Jokic, Embiid, Giannis, Luka or SGA.

Lebron would be 6th or 7th as well.

What makes SGA a lock and Hali not? Both are meh on defense, both are strong scorers with Hali better from deep and the better playmaker?

[dygaction]

Well I didn’t ask about the game I asked about the whole IST and its impact on voting.

That said, I don’t see how Hali can be in front of LeBron in the voting so far this year. Offensively, tremendous impact (more than LBJ), sure, but so is LeBron’s, who also has very solid defensive impact, more so than Hali. Unless you’re arguing something like 5th and 6th or something like that?

Actually I would probably put Hali 6th/7th at most now that I think about it. Would not put him above Jokic, Embiid, Giannis, Luka or SGA.

Lebron would be 6th or 7th as well.

What makes SGA a lock and Hali not? Both are meh on defense, both are strong scorers with Hali better from deep and the better playmaker?

Both are meh on defense?? That's a big paint brush
Per 100:
SGA - 7.6r/3.8s/1.2b 107DRtg 3.5 DBPM; Team #7 in D
Hali - 5.6r/1.3s/0.9b 122DRtg -0.3DBPM; Team #28 in D

[Johnny Firpo]

If you think SGA is meh on defense, you must have not watch OKC games at all. There is no other explanation. If the regular season ended today, he could be 2nd All-Defense.

[AussieBuck]

Giannis deserves an honourable mention for keeping coach Grief employed past a quarter of the season.

[losmi]

He answered questions honestly. If you've missed out 2 years in a row you'd answer the same way.

All he said was the goal posts keep changing which absolutely appeared to happen.

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

What goal posts were changing against Embiid? His fans keep saying that, but there is absolutely no basis for it.

Team record being the biggest one. Awarding a 6th seed the MVP was surprising. Especially given that the Sixers were without Simmons for the entire season and Harden wasn't around till the last month and a half.

Awarding 4th seed who underachieved would be more surprising than awarding 6th seed who overachieved.

[eyeatoma]

What goal posts were changing against Embiid? His fans keep saying that, but there is absolutely no basis for it.

Team record being the biggest one. Awarding a 6th seed the MVP was surprising. Especially given that the Sixers were without Simmons for the entire season and Harden wasn't around till the last month and a half.

Awarding 4th seed who underachieved would be more surprising than awarding 6th seed who overachieved.

Explain to me how not having a 1st all defense defender in Ben Simmons, and not having an all star calibre gaurd except that last 5-6 weeks of the season in Harden(At the time for both of them) where Embiid had to carry, and Maxey hadn't come into his own, was underachieving lol.

Take the 2nd best player of your team and let me know how they'll do.

I know the Nuggets didn't have MPJ either, but I'd argue that SImmons was worth atleast 70-80% of MPJ and Murray combined, given that he was an all star.

[losmi]

You're wasting your time with Embiid. He has already stolen one MVP, and he is by far the worst and least successful of all players who have this award. There's no way they'll give him another one.

[losmi]

Team record being the biggest one. Awarding a 6th seed the MVP was surprising. Especially given that the Sixers were without Simmons for the entire season and Harden wasn't around till the last month and a half.

Awarding 4th seed who underachieved would be more surprising than awarding 6th seed who overachieved.

Explain to me how not having a 1st all defense defender in Ben Simmons, and not having an all star calibre gaurd except that last 5-6 weeks of the season in Harden(At the time for both of them) where Embiid had to carry, and Maxey hadn't come into his own, was underachieving lol.

Take the 2nd best player of your team and let me know how they'll do. That's essentially what happened with the Nuggets and they came in 6th. Same happened in Philly and they came in 4th.

Nuggets were missing 2nd and 3rd best player for the whole season and still secured playoffs.

Embiid got Harden and dropped to 4th seed while loosing all games against good teams. That's underachieving.

[eyeatoma]

You're wasting your time with Embiid. He has already stolen one MVP, and he is by far the worst and least successful of all players who have this award. There's no way they'll give him another one.

Lol

Forgot that the MVP was based on playoff performance.

[eyeatoma]

Awarding 4th seed who underachieved would be more surprising than awarding 6th seed who overachieved.

Explain to me how not having a 1st all defense defender in Ben Simmons, and not having an all star calibre gaurd except that last 5-6 weeks of the season in Harden(At the time for both of them) where Embiid had to carry, and Maxey hadn't come into his own, was underachieving lol.

Take the 2nd best player of your team and let me know how they'll do. That's essentially what happened with the Nuggets and they came in 6th. Same happened in Philly and they came in 4th.

Nuggets were missing 2nd and 3rd best player for the whole season and still secured playoffs.

Embiid got Harden and dropped to 4th seed while loosing all games against good teams. That's underachieving.

LMAO not underachieving, that's called a break in period when Harden arrives. Hard for ANY team to acclimate to a ball dominant guard like Harden.

I know the Nuggets didn't have MPJ either, but I'd argue that SImmons was worth atleast 70-80% of MPJ and Murray combined, given that he was an all star and has made an all-nba team.

Goal posts changed, plain and simple. You can argue it all you want.

Jokic the MVP of that season proceeded to get gentleman swept by the Warriors. But in this case playoff performance doesn't count right. If he were that good, that transcendent why wasn't he able to beat the Warriors then?

[dygaction]

To Memphis crowd, luka is Menacing Vicious Petty, meme coming

Luka's past 5 games, 4W-1L
41/9/9; 0TO
36/15/18; 30-0 4th quarter run, 46min
40/10/11; 29/10/10 first half leads to a 50pt beat down of Jazz
32/6/10; with Grant Williams/Josh Green/Maxi Kleber/Kyrie injured, 41min
35/8/6; with Grant Williams/Josh Green/Maxi Kleber/Kyrie/THJ/Derrick Jones Jr. injured, 44min

Kidd in full Thibodeau mode. If Luka does not play the b2b game today, is he ducking LeBron?

Watch on YouTube

[AussieBuck]

To Memphis crowd, luka is Menacing Vicious Petty, meme coming

Luka's past 5 games, 4W-1L
41/9/9; 0TO
36/15/18; 30-0 4th quarter run, 46min
40/10/11; 29/10/10 first half leads to a 50pt beat down of Jazz
32/6/10; with Grant Williams/Josh Green/Maxi Kleber/Kyrie injured, 41min
35/8/6; with Grant Williams/Josh Green/Maxi Kleber/Kyrie/THJ/Derrick Jones Jr. injured, 44min

Kidd in full Thibodeau mode. If Luka does not play the b2b game today, is he ducking LeBron?

Watch on YouTube

Classic Kidd, regularly played Giannis for almost the whole second half to save his dodgy butt

[iggymcfrack]

For all of you +/- stat lovers.

Read on Twitter

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Sixers obliterated the Wizards by 45 points. Oh and btw only 4 fts this game.

Come to think of it I don't know how Embiid isn't the consensus #1 for MVP right now given that he has been able to sit out 6 4th quarters because the Sixers have dominated so much with him.

I'd be curious to know how many of the other MVP candidates have sat out 4th quarters this season, and if they aren't how it gives them an opportunity to add to their stats.

The notion that he stat pads is ridiculous given what I just mentioned.

No one’s really judging these guys on their per game averages so sitting out some 4th quarters doesn’t make much difference. For the season, SGA’s averaging 35.1 MPG compared to 34.8 MPG for Embiid and 34.2 MPG for Jokic. They’re basically the same. Furthermore, if Embiid’s playing in more blowouts than Jokic, it’s not because they’re playing better with him on the floor, it’s because of the bench.

Embiid on: +8.8
Embiid off: +2.9

Jokic on: +9.8
Jokic off: -11.7

SGA on: +11.7
SGA off: -2.0

Now that doesn’t include last night’s games so Embiid might match Jokic in NetRtg by virtue of a +30 vs. a +8, but it’s still not like it’s his time on the floor that’s the difference in the team performance.

[losmi]

You're wasting your time with Embiid. He has already stolen one MVP, and he is by far the worst and least successful of all players who have this award. There's no way they'll give him another one.

Lol

Forgot that the MVP was based on playoff performance.

He was never the most valuable player in a regular season either.

Playoff performances, where he was never able to replicate his regular season peformances, technically don't count for the MVP award but imply that he is a regular season stat padder.

[eyeatoma]

You're wasting your time with Embiid. He has already stolen one MVP, and he is by far the worst and least successful of all players who have this award. There's no way they'll give him another one.

Lol

Forgot that the MVP was based on playoff performance.

He was never the most valuable player in a regular season either.

Playoff performances, where he was never able to replicate his regular season peformances, technically don't count for the MVP award but imply that he is a regular season stat padder.

Or that he was injured with injuries that would take most players out for the entire playoffs. Fun to just ignore facts. Every playoff but one he was injured. The one he was healthy he was swept, but his PER was also closest to his regular season. Funny how being healthy works.

[iggymcfrack]

I feel like 3rd is a good place for Joel in the MVP race right now. Lesser impact than SGA and Jokic, lesser box stats than Jokic that are pretty similar to SGA’s if maybe slightly ahead, and he’s missed 3 games while the other two guys have only missed 1 game each.

I’d say:

1. Jokic
2. SGA
3. Embiid

They’re all close. I’d say SGA’s a little closer to Jokic than he is Embiid, but the gaps are similar.

[ChartFiction]

I have a reluctance to put SGA first because I think ultimately its an Embiid/Jokic race but I feel like he has the most compelling argument right now. SGA is averaging more steals than turnovers. Efficient scorer with 30.5 ppg on 63.6% TS. Two-way player. Very impressive game on both ends with little to no flaws. The positives that stand out to me between the three

SGA: Tied with Philly for best team record between the three teams. Best on-court rtg between the three. Best EPM (Embiid leads in PER and Jokic leads in BPM but not a fan of either)

Jokic: Best on/off court rtg out of the three

Embiid: Best SRS out of the three and 76ers have 2nd best SRS in the league after the Celtics

[AleksandarN]

Awarding 4th seed who underachieved would be more surprising than awarding 6th seed who overachieved.

Explain to me how not having a 1st all defense defender in Ben Simmons, and not having an all star calibre gaurd except that last 5-6 weeks of the season in Harden(At the time for both of them) where Embiid had to carry, and Maxey hadn't come into his own, was underachieving lol.

Take the 2nd best player of your team and let me know how they'll do. That's essentially what happened with the Nuggets and they came in 6th. Same happened in Philly and they came in 4th.

Nuggets were missing 2nd and 3rd best player for the whole season and still secured playoffs.

Embiid got Harden and dropped to 4th seed while loosing all games against good teams. That's underachieving.

Not only that. It was over 60 million in cap space tied to both players. Which meant we were playing with players making almost the bare minimum

[AleksandarN]

Explain to me how not having a 1st all defense defender in Ben Simmons, and not having an all star calibre gaurd except that last 5-6 weeks of the season in Harden(At the time for both of them) where Embiid had to carry, and Maxey hadn't come into his own, was underachieving lol.

Take the 2nd best player of your team and let me know how they'll do. That's essentially what happened with the Nuggets and they came in 6th. Same happened in Philly and they came in 4th.

Nuggets were missing 2nd and 3rd best player for the whole season and still secured playoffs.

Embiid got Harden and dropped to 4th seed while loosing all games against good teams. That's underachieving.

LMAO not underachieving, that's called a break in period when Harden arrives. Hard for ANY team to acclimate to a ball dominant guard like Harden.

I know the Nuggets didn't have MPJ either, but I'd argue that SImmons was worth atleast 70-80% of MPJ and Murray combined, given that he was an all star and has made an all-nba team.

Goal posts changed, plain and simple. You can argue it all you want.

Jokic the MVP of that season proceeded to get gentleman swept by the Warriors. But in this case playoff performance doesn't count right. If he were that good, that transcendent why wasn't he able to beat the Warriors then?

What players did Jokic have starting in the backcourt and where are those players playing now? Also what was Jokic stats that series and then compare that to Embiid’s best playoffs. So no they are not going to beat the eventual champions with that roster. To make it to game 5 is astonishing itself. But you don’t really care about context because it does not fit your narrative.