Nick Nurse Is Overrated

[vulture]

So you see Phili's injury luck this season as proof that firing Nurse was a good idea.

Phili was absolutely rolling when healthy. This feels like you're choosing an opportune moment to claim this victory.

I'm still high on Nurse and hope we get another chance to see him in the playoffs with a strong roster. I also consistently disagree with the Raps fans narrative about him not being a good development coach.

Toronto also consistently had more injuries when he was their coach. At this point we're well past coincidence.

Proof about firing Nurse? Keep up. Let's not change history and say anyone needed proof to fire him. Toronto didn't fire just Nurse, they watched him virtually quit on the team on live TV before the season ended, then they did as he wanted them to. And the FO was none to happy about it or having to do it.

He hasn't developed any player in the last 4 years, and actually hurt young players development, never giving them any real PT. I don't see how its a narrative when its actual history.

Oh yeah hugely healthy year for the Raps in year 1 without Nurse. Barnes, Poeltl, Quickley barely missed any games. Also so crazy how injury prone Raptors (Lowry, OG, Kawhi, Ibaka) just became amazing pinnacles of health the moment they got away from Nurse.

The development stuff I just find hard to assign blame on that one. It's possible Nurse could have done more for some of those young guys, but they weren't ready to help a team that had expectations to make the playoffs and surprise people once they got there. All of those guys got chances here and there but none of them popped. I'm curious to see who you think deserved a better opportunity.

I feel I always have to remind some Raps fans that Nurse was the development guy for the bench mob boys (Siakam, Poeltl, FVV). Maybe those guys were always going to be good, and Malachi (or whoever you like here) was never going to be good. As fans we have no idea if the Raps had a talent problem or a development problem. Nurse has clearly overseen some big development stories, and has some development failures, just as Masai has some incredible draft finds and misses.

We really don't know for sure, but everyone seems to divide up the blame differently between coaching and front office.

Don’t mind Johnny he’s just a front office apologist. There isn’t a single decision they have made he doesn’t agree with.
Saying that the coach is responsible for injuries when the raptors got hit by way more injuries this season is just inaccurate. The injuries are up in the league for a variety factors just look at the playoffs.

Every young player the front office provided other than Scottie Barnes who he helped develop, either isn't in the league or a 15th man who has been traded multiple times since they left the raptors.

Nick is a problem solver and he has his faults like every coach but I thought he helped embiid and maxey become better playmakers this season. That has always been the issue with Joel when he gets doubled. The offense was clicking before he got hurt and raptors fans were saying that he wasn’t a good offensive coach. However when you don’t have the talent your offense will stink. They were wrong as usual.

[Jabroni Lames]

You need good players to win. If you have good players, Nurse has proven that he will win with them. He's easily a top 5 coach at least. I don't fault him at all for not developing low ceiling prospects on the Raptors

Why couldn’t Nurse even get to playoffs with: Siakam, FVV, OG, Barnes, Poeltl starting plus Trent, Precious & Boucher off the bench. I repeat…. not even make the playoffs. Those are good to great players right there with enough bench depth. Like what does Nurse need? An all-star team? When you don’t have the players, like Thibs, THAT is when a coach proves his mettle.

Almost any coach can win with good players + luck. Masai gifted Nurse an all-time great defensive team that won 59 games the season before and added DPOYs Kawhi, Gasol & all-defense Danny Green. And Nurse lucked into not facing Lebron, KD and some Klay for the playoffs. He’s been dining off that lucky chip ever since. He hasn’t really proven anything other than he was lucky…. once.

1. He took them to game 7 of the East Semis against Boston in '20-'21 w/o Kawhi and Green, and w/ the corpse of Marc Gasol, a series Tatum said was the hardest series he had played to date on JJ's podcast last year
2. He made the playoffs with the personnel you called out excluding Poeltl in '21-'22 as the 5th seed
3. Raptors were 15-11 w/ Poeltl in '22-'23 and would have made the playoffs had he been there the whole year
4. The Raptors novel play style that Nurse put in for '21-'22 got scouted by the league which led to less wins, yet we didn't have the personnel to respond to it in any way - that's on the FO. It also didn't help that our only movement shooter FVV - a career .380 3pt shooter - had his worst 3pt shooting season of his career at .340.

The locker room was an absolute mess which led to the guys not playing well together last year - you can blame the latter partly on Nurse. And maybe you can blame some of the injury issues we had to how he over-worked his roster, though the FO also shares blame in that. But to say Nurse hasn't proven anything and was simply lucky is insane.

You can make the same list of excuses for every single coach in the league. Basically reinforces the OP that Nurse is nothing special, and rating him high is indeed over-rating him.

And taking the very young Celtics,with Kemba and Theis starting, to 7 games in round 2 wins you some type of medal? Lmao. Talk about lowering the bar just to be able to somehow praise Nurse. That’s literally the high water mark of Nurse’s absolutely pathetic post-season record since Kawhi left. Way worse than Doc Rivers, for example.

[Johnny Bball]

Don’t mind Johnny he’s just a front office apologist. There isn’t a single decision they have made he doesn’t agree with.
Saying that the coach is responsible for injuries when the raptors got hit by way more injuries this season is just inaccurate. The injuries are up in the league for a variety factors just look at the playoffs.

Every young player the front office provided other than Scottie Barnes who he helped develop, either isn't in the league or a 15th man who has been traded multiple times since they left the raptors.

Nick is a problem solver and he has his faults like every coach but I thought he helped embiid and maxey become better playmakers this season. That has always been the issue with Joel when he gets doubled. The offense was clicking before he got hurt and raptors fans were saying that he wasn’t a good offensive coach. However when you don’t have the talent your offense will stink. They were wrong as usual.

It doesn't have anything to do with defending the front office because I'm not and its not part of any discussion. Keep your insults to the raptors forum. A forum where near the entire forum agreed Nurse played players too many minutes, except for probably me. But it continues, and Philly has the same problems, no viable bench because nobody plays all year.

OG left for one of two reasons and one was that he repeatedly asked for was an opportunity from Nurse to do more, for a couple years. Never happened. Barnes 2nd year was stagnant. FVV was supposed to move off-ball with the ball more in Barnes hands. There were injuries, Nurse started wanting to win more than to develop Barnes and Nurse had the team go right back to what he was doing before that wasn't really working overly well. He benched both Barnes and Achiuwa two years ago pretty much ruining any confidence Achiuwa had. Koloko's minutes disappeared after February for no good reason (not that it matters now). Patrick McCaw over everyone. The wasn't one single deep bench guy, talented or not, that Nurse could get anything out of the last few years. All that on a team that they couldn't get to succeed or develop an even semi-useful bench rotation. At some point you have to admit that Nurse at the end was not the same coach as the Nurse that started there. Not to mention, he virtually quit on the team right before the playoffs.

And whether Nurse was a good offensive coach or a bad one wasn't even part of the discussion, so you can attribute that strawman to whoever "they" are that actually said it.

And you literally use to post that Nurse was no longer putting players in a position to succeed... but sure, pretend you didn't and its different now.

[vulture]

Don’t mind Johnny he’s just a front office apologist. There isn’t a single decision they have made he doesn’t agree with.
Saying that the coach is responsible for injuries when the raptors got hit by way more injuries this season is just inaccurate. The injuries are up in the league for a variety factors just look at the playoffs.

Every young player the front office provided other than Scottie Barnes who he helped develop, either isn't in the league or a 15th man who has been traded multiple times since they left the raptors.

Nick is a problem solver and he has his faults like every coach but I thought he helped embiid and maxey become better playmakers this season. That has always been the issue with Joel when he gets doubled. The offense was clicking before he got hurt and raptors fans were saying that he wasn’t a good offensive coach. However when you don’t have the talent your offense will stink. They were wrong as usual.

It doesn't have anything to do with defending the front office because I'm not and its not part of any discussion. Keep your insults to the raptors forum. A forum where near the entire forum agreed Nurse played players too many minutes, except for probably me. But it continues, and Philly has the same problems, no viable bench because nobody plays all year.

OG left for one of two reasons and one was that he repeatedly asked for was an opportunity from Nurse to do more, for a couple years. Never happened. Barnes 2nd year was stagnant. FVV was supposed to move off-ball with the ball more in Barnes hands. There were injuries, Nurse started wanting to win more than to develop Barnes and Nurse had the team go right back to what he was doing before that wasn't really working overly well. He benched both Barnes and Achiuwa two years ago pretty much ruining any confidence Achiuwa had. Koloko's minutes disappeared after February for no good reason (not that it matters now). Patrick McCaw over everyone. The wasn't one single deep bench guy, talented or not, that Nurse could get anything out of the last few years. All that on a team that they couldn't get to succeed or develop an even semi-useful bench rotation. At some point you have to admit that Nurse at the end was not the same coach as the Nurse that started there. Not to mention, he virtually quit on the team right before the playoffs.

And whether Nurse was a good offensive coach or a bad one wasn't even part of the discussion, so you can attribute that strawman to whoever "they" are that actually said it.

And you literally use to post that Nurse was no longer putting players in a position to succeed... but sure, pretend you didn't and its different now.

He literally tried all those things with the team and it didn’t work. OG can’t do more stuff as proven with the Knicks (ppg down). Fred played off ball but Scottie wasn’t good enough to create anything in the half court. Scottie didn’t improve because he didn’t put in the work and pouted all year long.

Nurse wasn’t perfect and yes he played guys too many minutes but players and front office deserve culpability too. They had no shooting, no bench and asked pascal to create everything. You have guys asking for bigger roles they can’t fit in.

You can say nurse is overrated all you want but he’s an innovator. It’s just because you can’t recognize any schemes in nba game. The game is about talent and the raptors have had very little influx of talent since the championship season.

[Johnny Bball]

Don’t mind Johnny he’s just a front office apologist. There isn’t a single decision they have made he doesn’t agree with.
Saying that the coach is responsible for injuries when the raptors got hit by way more injuries this season is just inaccurate. The injuries are up in the league for a variety factors just look at the playoffs.

Every young player the front office provided other than Scottie Barnes who he helped develop, either isn't in the league or a 15th man who has been traded multiple times since they left the raptors.

Nick is a problem solver and he has his faults like every coach but I thought he helped embiid and maxey become better playmakers this season. That has always been the issue with Joel when he gets doubled. The offense was clicking before he got hurt and raptors fans were saying that he wasn’t a good offensive coach. However when you don’t have the talent your offense will stink. They were wrong as usual.

It doesn't have anything to do with defending the front office because I'm not and its not part of any discussion. Keep your insults to the raptors forum. A forum where near the entire forum agreed Nurse played players too many minutes, except for probably me. But it continues, and Philly has the same problems, no viable bench because nobody plays all year.

OG left for one of two reasons and one was that he repeatedly asked for was an opportunity from Nurse to do more, for a couple years. Never happened. Barnes 2nd year was stagnant. FVV was supposed to move off-ball with the ball more in Barnes hands. There were injuries, Nurse started wanting to win more than to develop Barnes and Nurse had the team go right back to what he was doing before that wasn't really working overly well. He benched both Barnes and Achiuwa two years ago pretty much ruining any confidence Achiuwa had. Koloko's minutes disappeared after February for no good reason (not that it matters now). Patrick McCaw over everyone. The wasn't one single deep bench guy, talented or not, that Nurse could get anything out of the last few years. All that on a team that they couldn't get to succeed or develop an even semi-useful bench rotation. At some point you have to admit that Nurse at the end was not the same coach as the Nurse that started there. Not to mention, he virtually quit on the team right before the playoffs.

And whether Nurse was a good offensive coach or a bad one wasn't even part of the discussion, so you can attribute that strawman to whoever "they" are that actually said it.

And you literally use to post that Nurse was no longer putting players in a position to succeed... but sure, pretend you didn't and its different now.

He literally tried all those things with the team and it didn’t work. OG can’t do more stuff as proven with the Knicks (ppg down). Fred played off ball but Scottie wasn’t good enough to create anything in the half court. Scottie didn’t improve because he didn’t put in the work and pouted all year long.

Nurse wasn’t perfect and yes he played guys too many minutes but players and front office deserve culpability too. They had no shooting, no bench and asked pascal to create everything. You have guys asking for bigger roles they can’t fit in.

You can say nurse is overrated all you want but he’s an innovator. It’s just because you can’t recognize any schemes in nba game. The game is about talent and the raptors have had very little influx of talent since the championship season.

Nurse WAS an innovator. After his first year he hasn't innovated a thing. I keep saying WAS and its like nobody wants to read it. Barnes needed the time regardless and benching him served zero purpose. I was with you in that thinking Barnes was just not deserving/ready at the time, but I think you can look back now and say that's not the case. Tried them all? He abandoned the very ideas of change because injuries had the Raptors losing more. Injuries that spawn partly from Nick anyway. And you call me an apologist, lol. What the....

At least we agree that he works players too hard now. I mean... when I look at Embiids game log. I look at the bad teams they played and the minutes he's still playing, and its stupid. They had him play 3o minutes in a 50 point blowout of CHA, when he knows the guy has injury problems when worked hard. And every time he does that it takes some developmental minutes away from someone else.

I'm just glad Nurse is gone. It was his own choice. He's the one that bailed. There's nothing to defend when the decision was his.

Anyway... this is far to much raptor detail for the general board.

[Hans1984]

Yes.

[WentzerWuver]

Is Jason Kidd Underrated?

Overrated like the Wolves HC after they lose to the C's

[Ssj16]

There feels to be a lot of slander against Nick Nurse here. All coaches need a solid roster to make serious damage in the playoffs.

Gregg Popovich is the greatest coach of all time in my estimation. I can't wait for Lebroni James and others to tell me how he's fared without Tim Duncan since he retired.

I find it sad that all the great stuff that Nurse has done in the past with the Raps has been discounted and how are people ignoring the fact that NY had the better overall team and Nurse still got it to game 6.

[WuTang_CMB]

When he has a ferrari, he can drive it. which is what you want when you are in contention
he's a real good coach

last few years were tough in TOR as him and Masai werent on the same page. Covid fked them and their evaluation

[vulture]

It doesn't have anything to do with defending the front office because I'm not and its not part of any discussion. Keep your insults to the raptors forum. A forum where near the entire forum agreed Nurse played players too many minutes, except for probably me. But it continues, and Philly has the same problems, no viable bench because nobody plays all year.

OG left for one of two reasons and one was that he repeatedly asked for was an opportunity from Nurse to do more, for a couple years. Never happened. Barnes 2nd year was stagnant. FVV was supposed to move off-ball with the ball more in Barnes hands. There were injuries, Nurse started wanting to win more than to develop Barnes and Nurse had the team go right back to what he was doing before that wasn't really working overly well. He benched both Barnes and Achiuwa two years ago pretty much ruining any confidence Achiuwa had. Koloko's minutes disappeared after February for no good reason (not that it matters now). Patrick McCaw over everyone. The wasn't one single deep bench guy, talented or not, that Nurse could get anything out of the last few years. All that on a team that they couldn't get to succeed or develop an even semi-useful bench rotation. At some point you have to admit that Nurse at the end was not the same coach as the Nurse that started there. Not to mention, he virtually quit on the team right before the playoffs.

And whether Nurse was a good offensive coach or a bad one wasn't even part of the discussion, so you can attribute that strawman to whoever "they" are that actually said it.

And you literally use to post that Nurse was no longer putting players in a position to succeed... but sure, pretend you didn't and its different now.

He literally tried all those things with the team and it didn’t work. OG can’t do more stuff as proven with the Knicks (ppg down). Fred played off ball but Scottie wasn’t good enough to create anything in the half court. Scottie didn’t improve because he didn’t put in the work and pouted all year long.

Nurse wasn’t perfect and yes he played guys too many minutes but players and front office deserve culpability too. They had no shooting, no bench and asked pascal to create everything. You have guys asking for bigger roles they can’t fit in.

You can say nurse is overrated all you want but he’s an innovator. It’s just because you can’t recognize any schemes in nba game. The game is about talent and the raptors have had very little influx of talent since the championship season.

Nurse WAS an innovator. After his first year he hasn't innovated a thing. I keep saying WAS and its like nobody wants to read it. Barnes needed the time regardless and benching him served zero purpose. I was with you in that thinking Barnes was just not deserving/ready at the time, but I think you can look back now and say that's not the case. Tried them all? He abandoned the very ideas of change because injuries had the Raptors losing more. Injuries that spawn partly from Nick anyway. And you call me an apologist, lol. What the....

At least we agree that he works players too hard now. I mean... when I look at Embiids game log. I look at the bad teams they played and the minutes he's still playing, and its stupid. They had him play 3o minutes in a 50 point blowout of CHA, when he knows the guy has injury problems when worked hard. And every time he does that it takes some developmental minutes away from someone else.

I'm just glad Nurse is gone. It was his own choice. He's the one that bailed. There's nothing to defend when the decision was his.

Anyway... this is far to much raptor detail for the general board.

Saying he wasn’t innovating means you really don’t know basketball. It’s clear You just watch guys run up and down to see who makes a basket.

He recognized the offensive rebounding inefficiency in the league during the Tampa season. He brought peel switching to the league and he also took the concept of nexting the pick and roll from the euroleague. Most teams use these concepts now and the warriors won their 2022 title with peel switching as a big concept.

I can name so many defensive concepts used from game to game that it would make your head spin.
Just say you don’t know basketball instead of speaking in generalities next time.

I’m happy he’s gone to a more talented team because he deserves it. the raptors lost a championship coach and that’s hard to replace.

[Johnny Bball]

He literally tried all those things with the team and it didn’t work. OG can’t do more stuff as proven with the Knicks (ppg down). Fred played off ball but Scottie wasn’t good enough to create anything in the half court. Scottie didn’t improve because he didn’t put in the work and pouted all year long.

Nurse wasn’t perfect and yes he played guys too many minutes but players and front office deserve culpability too. They had no shooting, no bench and asked pascal to create everything. You have guys asking for bigger roles they can’t fit in.

You can say nurse is overrated all you want but he’s an innovator. It’s just because you can’t recognize any schemes in nba game. The game is about talent and the raptors have had very little influx of talent since the championship season.

Nurse WAS an innovator. After his first year he hasn't innovated a thing. I keep saying WAS and its like nobody wants to read it. Barnes needed the time regardless and benching him served zero purpose. I was with you in that thinking Barnes was just not deserving/ready at the time, but I think you can look back now and say that's not the case. Tried them all? He abandoned the very ideas of change because injuries had the Raptors losing more. Injuries that spawn partly from Nick anyway. And you call me an apologist, lol. What the....

At least we agree that he works players too hard now. I mean... when I look at Embiids game log. I look at the bad teams they played and the minutes he's still playing, and its stupid. They had him play 3o minutes in a 50 point blowout of CHA, when he knows the guy has injury problems when worked hard. And every time he does that it takes some developmental minutes away from someone else.

I'm just glad Nurse is gone. It was his own choice. He's the one that bailed. There's nothing to defend when the decision was his.

Anyway... this is far to much raptor detail for the general board.

Saying he wasn’t innovating means you really don’t know basketball. It’s clear You just watch guys run up and down to see who makes a basket.

He recognized the offensive rebounding inefficiency in the league during the Tampa season. He brought peel switching to the league and he also took the concept of nexting the pick and roll from the euroleague. Most teams use these concepts now and the warriors won their 2022 title with peel switching as a big concept.

I can name so many defensive concepts used from game to game that it would make your head spin.
Just say you don’t know basketball instead of speaking in generalities next time.

I’m happy he’s gone to a more talented team because he deserves it. the raptors lost a championship coach and that’s hard to replace.

It was literally in 2019-2020 season. Fall 2019. I'm a summer off from it being his first year, if you even consider just a season a year. As for the rest, I'm tired of the childish insults. Welcome to my foes list forever.

And way to be the apologist you accuse others of being.

[Jabroni Lames]

When he has a ferrari, he can drive it. which is what you want when you are in contention
he's a real good coach

last few years were tough in TOR as him and Masai werent on the same page. Covid fked them and their evaluation

Auto racing is like 99% car, 1% driver. The only driver who has won with a clearly inferior is Michael Schumacher. Coaches aren't difference makers... so why is Nurse held in higher esteem than: Doc Rivers, Bud, Ty Lue, Carlisle or Frank Vogel? Coaches who have accomplished a lot more than Nurse.

The absolutely best we can say about Nurse is that he didn't screw up a 59-win team that was upgraded to GOAT-level defense, while being gifted with KD, Lebron & Klay injury luck. Nurse had ONE shining moment, and it's been downhill from there.

[vulture]

Nurse WAS an innovator. After his first year he hasn't innovated a thing. I keep saying WAS and its like nobody wants to read it. Barnes needed the time regardless and benching him served zero purpose. I was with you in that thinking Barnes was just not deserving/ready at the time, but I think you can look back now and say that's not the case. Tried them all? He abandoned the very ideas of change because injuries had the Raptors losing more. Injuries that spawn partly from Nick anyway. And you call me an apologist, lol. What the....

At least we agree that he works players too hard now. I mean... when I look at Embiids game log. I look at the bad teams they played and the minutes he's still playing, and its stupid. They had him play 3o minutes in a 50 point blowout of CHA, when he knows the guy has injury problems when worked hard. And every time he does that it takes some developmental minutes away from someone else.

I'm just glad Nurse is gone. It was his own choice. He's the one that bailed. There's nothing to defend when the decision was his.

Anyway... this is far to much raptor detail for the general board.

Saying he wasn’t innovating means you really don’t know basketball. It’s clear You just watch guys run up and down to see who makes a basket.

He recognized the offensive rebounding inefficiency in the league during the Tampa season. He brought peel switching to the league and he also took the concept of nexting the pick and roll from the euroleague. Most teams use these concepts now and the warriors won their 2022 title with peel switching as a big concept.

I can name so many defensive concepts used from game to game that it would make your head spin.
Just say you don’t know basketball instead of speaking in generalities next time.

I’m happy he’s gone to a more talented team because he deserves it. the raptors lost a championship coach and that’s hard to replace.

It was literally in 2019-2020 season. Fall 2019. I'm a summer off from it being his first year, if you even consider just a season a year. As for the rest, I'm tired of the childish insults. Welcome to my foes list forever.

And way to be the apologist you accuse others of being.

It was the last 4 seasons but ok. I’m not trying to be mean but it’s ok to say that you can’t recognize schemes or concepts in the game.

If you want to block me for telling you the truth then by all means good riddance.

[WuTang_CMB]

When he has a ferrari, he can drive it. which is what you want when you are in contention
he's a real good coach

last few years were tough in TOR as him and Masai werent on the same page. Covid fked them and their evaluation

Auto racing is like 99% car, 1% driver. The only driver who has won with a clearly inferior is Michael Schumacher. Coaches aren't difference makers... so why is Nurse held in higher esteem than: Doc Rivers, Bud, Ty Lue, Carlisle or Frank Vogel? Coaches who have accomplished a lot more than Nurse.

The absolutely best we can say about Nurse is that he didn't screw up a 59-win team that was upgraded to GOAT-level defense, while being gifted with KD, Lebron & Klay injury luck. Nurse had ONE shining moment, and it's been downhill from there.

You arent understanding the metaphore when it comes to nba coaching. There are many coaches in the nba with contenders that cant push them over the hump over a large body of work. Nurse proved in 2019 he can

[Jabroni Lames]

When he has a ferrari, he can drive it. which is what you want when you are in contention
he's a real good coach

last few years were tough in TOR as him and Masai werent on the same page. Covid fked them and their evaluation

Auto racing is like 99% car, 1% driver. The only driver who has won with a clearly inferior is Michael Schumacher. Coaches aren't difference makers... so why is Nurse held in higher esteem than: Doc Rivers, Bud, Ty Lue, Carlisle or Frank Vogel? Coaches who have accomplished a lot more than Nurse.

The absolutely best we can say about Nurse is that he didn't screw up a 59-win team that was upgraded to GOAT-level defense, while being gifted with KD, Lebron & Klay injury luck. Nurse had ONE shining moment, and it's been downhill from there.

You arent understanding the metaphore when it comes to nba coaching. There are many coaches in the nba with contenders that cant push them over the hump over a large body of work. Nurse proved in 2019 he can

A lot of coaches without titles could've done the same with that roster, e.g., Thibs & Brad Stevens come to mind immediately.

I'd really like to understand WHY Nurse is ranked/rated so high?

Rank/Rate these coaches: Nurse, Kerr, Spo, Ty Lue, Vogel, Bud, Pop, Kidd, Mazzulla, Brad Stevens, Thibs, Rick Carlisle, Monty Williams, Ime Udoka & Mike Malone. I'd put Nurse right at the bottom.

[cupcakesnake]

When he has a ferrari, he can drive it. which is what you want when you are in contention
he's a real good coach

last few years were tough in TOR as him and Masai werent on the same page. Covid fked them and their evaluation

Auto racing is like 99% car, 1% driver. The only driver who has won with a clearly inferior is Michael Schumacher. Coaches aren't difference makers... so why is Nurse held in higher esteem than: Doc Rivers, Bud, Ty Lue, Carlisle or Frank Vogel? Coaches who have accomplished a lot more than Nurse.

The absolutely best we can say about Nurse is that he didn't screw up a 59-win team that was upgraded to GOAT-level defense, while being gifted with KD, Lebron & Klay injury luck. Nurse had ONE shining moment, and it's been downhill from there.

It's pretty boring to rank coaches purely by championships or wins/losses. It's one step less (but still boring imo) to argue about how good a team "really" was and how that coach helped them overachieve or underachieve. I understand coaching is complicated and value is hard to discern, so it's easiest to just go by results.

If analyzing offense and defensive strategy (or how roster personnel is used etc.) isn't interesting to a fan, I think they should shy away from ranking coaches. You can do it for fun, but you in particular seem really into a narrative based take on a coach's ability and I don't understand your level of conviction if you're just going off very surface level analysis that might not even touch on coaching ability.

I like Nurse entirely because of his strategic innovation, how he's tried to maximize weird rosters, and how quickly he's been able to adjust (especially defensively) in playoff series. Both in wins and losses, good/bad/mid seasons, Nurse is always doing something interesting that gives his teams a little edge. Lots of people have outlined the stategic brilliance in this thread, and out there in the basketball world. Whenever I'm reading or listening to people smarter than me and they're analyzing Nurse's coaching, there's a pretty strong consensus on his strategic acumen. In the more narrative based sports media world, it's fine to say Nurse bad or Nurse good based on the story of the season. I'm just not that stimulated or interested in that discourse, and I feel we can make it whatever we want it to be and support our points.

Is your Nurse dislike coming from something specific? Is it sort of something like: people pump this guy up too much and I don't see why he deserves it? There are lots of people who don't like Nurse, but I feel like you're driving the bus. You started this thread, and have 3 times as much posts as any other poster who's participated.

[WuTang_CMB]

Auto racing is like 99% car, 1% driver. The only driver who has won with a clearly inferior is Michael Schumacher. Coaches aren't difference makers... so why is Nurse held in higher esteem than: Doc Rivers, Bud, Ty Lue, Carlisle or Frank Vogel? Coaches who have accomplished a lot more than Nurse.

The absolutely best we can say about Nurse is that he didn't screw up a 59-win team that was upgraded to GOAT-level defense, while being gifted with KD, Lebron & Klay injury luck. Nurse had ONE shining moment, and it's been downhill from there.

You arent understanding the metaphore when it comes to nba coaching. There are many coaches in the nba with contenders that cant push them over the hump over a large body of work. Nurse proved in 2019 he can

A lot of coaches without titles could've done the same with that roster, e.g., Thibs & Brad Stevens come to mind immediately.

I'd really like to understand WHY Nurse is ranked/rated so high?

Rank/Rate these coaches: Nurse, Kerr, Spo, Ty Lue, Vogel, Bud, Pop, Kidd, Mazzulla, Brad Stevens, Thibs, Rick Carlisle, Monty Williams, Ime Udoka & Mike Malone. I'd put Nurse right at the bottom.

A lot of coaches would have lost with Raps roster also. He's great tactically and can make the adjustments to win a series. Philly a prime example where he went big. Vogel, Carlisle, Monty, Bud (who Nurse destroyed), Mazzulla, are all below Nurse. He's a top coach in the league for contenders. Developing teams probably not.

[Jabroni Lames]

You arent understanding the metaphore when it comes to nba coaching. There are many coaches in the nba with contenders that cant push them over the hump over a large body of work. Nurse proved in 2019 he can

A lot of coaches without titles could've done the same with that roster, e.g., Thibs & Brad Stevens come to mind immediately.

I'd really like to understand WHY Nurse is ranked/rated so high?

Rank/Rate these coaches: Nurse, Kerr, Spo, Ty Lue, Vogel, Bud, Pop, Kidd, Mazzulla, Brad Stevens, Thibs, Rick Carlisle, Monty Williams, Ime Udoka & Mike Malone. I'd put Nurse right at the bottom.

A lot of coaches would have lost with Raps roster also. He's great tactically and can make the adjustments to win a series. Philly a prime example where he went big. Vogel, Carlisle, Monty, Bud (who Nurse destroyed), Mazzulla, are all below Nurse. He's a top coach in the league for contenders. Developing teams probably not.

Thibs just destroyed Nurse with an injury decimated roster. And Stevens destroyed Nurse with a very young Celtics roster, starting Theis & Kemba, with Williamses as rookies. Would've been a sweep except for OG's 0.2 second miracle shot.

And Nurse just lost in the first round with a contending roster, the reigning MVP and a fast-rising young all-star. I repeat: Lost in the FIRST ROUND. Worse than Doc Rivers.

There goes that Nurse narrative.

[WuTang_CMB]

A lot of coaches without titles could've done the same with that roster, e.g., Thibs & Brad Stevens come to mind immediately.

I'd really like to understand WHY Nurse is ranked/rated so high?

Rank/Rate these coaches: Nurse, Kerr, Spo, Ty Lue, Vogel, Bud, Pop, Kidd, Mazzulla, Brad Stevens, Thibs, Rick Carlisle, Monty Williams, Ime Udoka & Mike Malone. I'd put Nurse right at the bottom.

A lot of coaches would have lost with Raps roster also. He's great tactically and can make the adjustments to win a series. Philly a prime example where he went big. Vogel, Carlisle, Monty, Bud (who Nurse destroyed), Mazzulla, are all below Nurse. He's a top coach in the league for contenders. Developing teams probably not.

Thibs just destroyed Nurse with an injury decimated roster. And Stevens destroyed Nurse with a very young Celtics roster, starting Theis & Kemba, with Williamses as rookies. Would've been a sweep except for OG's 0.2 second miracle shot.

Nah that series went 7. Could have went either way. If Siakam touched a basketball during covid, they win. But I still have Stevens ahead of him even though Stevens didn't bring them to a chip like Nurse won. Nurse is at the upper echelon of coaches in the NBA, not even up for debate

[cupcakesnake]

A lot of coaches would have lost with Raps roster also. He's great tactically and can make the adjustments to win a series. Philly a prime example where he went big. Vogel, Carlisle, Monty, Bud (who Nurse destroyed), Mazzulla, are all below Nurse. He's a top coach in the league for contenders. Developing teams probably not.

Thibs just destroyed Nurse with an injury decimated roster. And Stevens destroyed Nurse with a very young Celtics roster, starting Theis & Kemba, with Williamses as rookies. Would've been a sweep except for OG's 0.2 second miracle shot.

Nah that series went 7. Could have went either way. If Siakam touched a basketball during covid, they win. But I still have Stevens ahead of him even though Stevens didn't bring them to a chip like Nurse won. Nurse is at the upper echelon of coaches in the NBA, not even up for debate

Boston went into that series with some pretty clear matchup advantages. Bigger defenders to throw a Toronto's tiny backcourt, and plenty of strong guys who could keep Siakam out of the paint. A big surprise element of that series was that Marc Gasol was cooked, we just didn't know until that series when Daniel Theis was able to slip screens for dunks at will, and Gasol no longer had the quicks to guard that action (after leaving everything on the floor in his 2019 NBA and World Cup wins). Gasol ended up not being able to play starter minutes, and with a declining Ibaka as the only other big, Toronto was forced to go small plenty often with a lineup of FVV/Lowry/Powell/OG/Siakam.

Toronto was overly reliant (offensively) on getting Lowry and FVV open for 3s. We're talking about the 14th ranked offense going up against the 4th ranked one. The team didn't have great scoring tools, and needed the defense to be great (another reason Gasol's regression really hurt). That being said, Nurse threw the kitchen sink at Boston and consistently found ways to muck up the game and keep it close. I thought that series was one of the best coached series I've ever seen, from both Stevens and Nurse. They both found each others roster/strategic weaknesses and ruined each other every game. Neither team was able to score in huge part because of the ruthless strategic adjustments by both coaches.