Have we been underrating Luka?

[deneem4]

You're trying to copy personal stats and compare it 1 : 1 without even going further into any context behind them. Then you ask me if i am serious?
So according to your logic, Jokic doesn't elevate his teammates either since guys like Gordon or KCP had better individual seasons with other teams as well. But we know it doesn't work like that.

You lack so many points in your arguments that you need to revert back to Brunson and KP to prove your point. I was talking about ROLE players and KP/Brunson stories are completely different and irrelevant in this context. In case you didn't know, Luka and Brunson did go to WCF together.

I understand now that it's clear you don't watch Mavs and you simply read box scores, so you're either trolling me hard or you lack the awareness of how little you actually know about what it means to elevate the team.

Jokic elevates himself 1st of all, that’s why he’s an nba champion and mvp, he gets better when he needs to and it equates to winning
As a wizards fan I watched gafford play, this is what he do, it’s a reason he rarely plays over 25 mins a game with the mavs
That’s the point luka has seen success with Brunson, so why is this season where he hasn’t landed a top seed supposed to get him an mvp? When he has better role players and a star in kyrie irving

And for you to mention kyrie Boston and Brooklyn as a fiasco without factoring in the political climate he has weather these past few years is insane as a real basketball fan, you can’t be serious at all

Your arguments are like a roller coaster ride i simply have no clue anymore what to respond to. I'll just talk about Mavs standings since i see it botheres you so much.

Mavs had 33 different starting lineups at some point (NBA high) due to injuries and other stuff. They only recently got somewhat healthy and have the 2nd best record in the league since then. If healthy they would have been a higher seed probably. Mavs managed to have a 4th seed last season with Wood and Dinwiddie as their 2nd and 3rd best players before the Kyrie trade? Can you even comprehend how ridiculous that was? Then Luka got injured, they traded away important rotation pieces and FO wanted to tank the season.

Only recently Mavs 5-man lineup passed the 100 minutes treshold. For example Nuggets starting lineup had over 800 minutes played together at that time. Mavs had no continuity or chemistry because of various reasons. Kyrie also already missed over 20 games...

If if if, is your argument

[Ambrose]

That usually happens when people play less on a playoff team vs on the wizards with kuzma nem

Players do not usually score more while playing less, all while also seeing a big increase in efficiency, no, that's not true.

It's even more impressive when you actually look at what he was doing this year before he became a Mav. The difference is clear as day. The eye test shows. The numbers show it. If you don't see it, you're not paying attention.

He was doing the same thing now he has a better team and he’s doing the same thing that’s the point Daniel gafford is still the same Daniel gafford it’s not a big change in efficiency for a center to go from .73 to .77 while playing with hof guys vs Beal and kuzma

He's not doing the same thing. The difference in efficiency is big. The fact that you don't understand that is the problem.

[deneem4]

Since the trade his FG% is up 8%, and he's averaging 6 points more per 100 possessions. That's a pretty massive jump.

Last year his fg was .73 as a full year with the wizards averaging 9ppg
This year after the trade as a maverick it’s .77 and 11ppg

He went up 2ppg and .04 in percentage let’s use normal stats

You want to use normal stats for Gafford, but not for Luka?

Luka's "normal stats" are the best in the league... so I guess you must think he is the best.

I read that he broke some record of normal stats (points+rebounds+assists).

Congrats those broken records has led to a 5th seed, that’s the point

[ChipotleWest]

That dude is not even worth debating, he has trouble even saying what he means. He just hates Luka and will regardless, let him.

[Dirk]

Last year his fg was .73 as a full year with the wizards averaging 9ppg
This year after the trade as a maverick it’s .77 and 11ppg

He went up 2ppg and .04 in percentage let’s use normal stats

You want to use normal stats for Gafford, but not for Luka?

Luka's "normal stats" are the best in the league... so I guess you must think he is the best.

I read that he broke some record of normal stats (points+rebounds+assists).

Congrats those broken records has led to a 5th seed, that’s the point

Your points are confusing, now you're casually including "5th seed", which implies you're essentially "blaming" Luka for losses when he missed games or maybe for games where the Mavs were ravaged by injuries.

I am confused though, on one hand you don't seem to think the Gafford improvement is "huge", but now all of a sudden you think a 6 game difference between the Mavs and the top of the West is "huge".

[deneem4]

Players do not usually score more while playing less, all while also seeing a big increase in efficiency, no, that's not true.

It's even more impressive when you actually look at what he was doing this year before he became a Mav. The difference is clear as day. The eye test shows. The numbers show it. If you don't see it, you're not paying attention.

He was doing the same thing now he has a better team and he’s doing the same thing that’s the point Daniel gafford is still the same Daniel gafford it’s not a big change in efficiency for a center to go from .73 to .77 while playing with hof guys vs Beal and kuzma

He's not doing the same thing. The difference in efficiency is big. The fact that you don't understand that is the problem.

Please help me understand this dramatic difference in gafford game while playing less minutes with a better team

[Archx]

Jokic elevates himself 1st of all, that’s why he’s an nba champion and mvp, he gets better when he needs to and it equates to winning
As a wizards fan I watched gafford play, this is what he do, it’s a reason he rarely plays over 25 mins a game with the mavs
That’s the point luka has seen success with Brunson, so why is this season where he hasn’t landed a top seed supposed to get him an mvp? When he has better role players and a star in kyrie irving

And for you to mention kyrie Boston and Brooklyn as a fiasco without factoring in the political climate he has weather these past few years is insane as a real basketball fan, you can’t be serious at all

Your arguments are like a roller coaster ride i simply have no clue anymore what to respond to. I'll just talk about Mavs standings since i see it botheres you so much.

Mavs had 33 different starting lineups at some point (NBA high) due to injuries and other stuff. They only recently got somewhat healthy and have the 2nd best record in the league since then. If healthy they would have been a higher seed probably. Mavs managed to have a 4th seed last season with Wood and Dinwiddie as their 2nd and 3rd best players before the Kyrie trade? Can you even comprehend how ridiculous that was? Then Luka got injured, they traded away important rotation pieces and FO wanted to tank the season.

Only recently Mavs 5-man lineup passed the 100 minutes treshold. For example Nuggets starting lineup had over 800 minutes played together at that time. Mavs had no continuity or chemistry because of various reasons. Kyrie also already missed over 20 games...

If if if, is your argument

I gave you statistical data, that is not "if" argument.

You're arguing here with at least 5 or 6 Mavs fans and you're still trying to convince them that they're wrong by watching their own team and you're right as a Wizards fan. Make it make sense.

[Ambrose]

He was doing the same thing now he has a better team and he’s doing the same thing that’s the point Daniel gafford is still the same Daniel gafford it’s not a big change in efficiency for a center to go from .73 to .77 while playing with hof guys vs Beal and kuzma

He's not doing the same thing. The difference in efficiency is big. The fact that you don't understand that is the problem.

Please help me understand this dramatic difference in gafford game while playing less minutes with a better team

Sure.

The difference between Daniel Gafford in Washington vs. Daniel Gafford in Dallas is statistically greater than the difference between Dejounte Murray and Kawhi Leonard.

[deneem4]

He's not doing the same thing. The difference in efficiency is big. The fact that you don't understand that is the problem.

Please help me understand this dramatic difference in gafford game while playing less minutes with a better team

Sure.

The difference between Daniel Gafford in Washington vs. Daniel Gafford in Dallas is statistically greater than the difference between Dejounte Murray and Kawhi Leonard.

Il help you with stats

Gafford offensive rating this year with mavs
1st 146
Gafford offensive rating last year with wizards
3rd 135

[Ambrose]

Please help me understand this dramatic difference in gafford game while playing less minutes with a better team

Sure.

The difference between Daniel Gafford in Washington vs. Daniel Gafford in Dallas is statistically greater than the difference between Dejounte Murray and Kawhi Leonard.

Il help you with stats

Gafford offensive rating this year with mavs
1st 146
Gafford offensive rating last year with wizards
3rd 135

That's also a big difference. Thank you for making my point.

[deneem4]

Your arguments are like a roller coaster ride i simply have no clue anymore what to respond to. I'll just talk about Mavs standings since i see it botheres you so much.

Mavs had 33 different starting lineups at some point (NBA high) due to injuries and other stuff. They only recently got somewhat healthy and have the 2nd best record in the league since then. If healthy they would have been a higher seed probably. Then Luka got injured, they traded away important rotation pieces and FO wanted to tank the season.

Only recently Mavs 5-man lineup passed the 100 minutes treshold. For example Nuggets starting lineup had over 800 minutes played together at that time. Mavs had no continuity or chemistry because of various reasons. Kyrie also already missed over 20 games...

If if if, is your argument

I gave you statistical data, that is not "if" argument.

You're arguing here with at least 5 or 6 Mavs fans and you're still trying to convince them that they're wrong by watching their own team and you're right as a Wizards fan. Make it make sense.

Dude

“If healthy they would have been a higher seed probably. Mavs managed to have a 4th seed last season with Wood and Dinwiddie as their 2nd and 3rd best players before the Kyrie trade? Can you even comprehend how ridiculous that was? ”

That’s an if

[deneem4]

Sure.

The difference between Daniel Gafford in Washington vs. Daniel Gafford in Dallas is statistically greater than the difference between Dejounte Murray and Kawhi Leonard.

Il help you with stats

Gafford offensive rating this year with mavs
1st 146
Gafford offensive rating last year with wizards
3rd 135

That's also a big difference. Thank you for making my point.

Yea he’s playing with luka and kyrie on less minutes he should be better than playin with Beal and Kuzma obviously

[Ambrose]

Il help you with stats

Gafford offensive rating this year with mavs
1st 146
Gafford offensive rating last year with wizards
3rd 135

That's also a big difference. Thank you for making my point.

Yea he’s playing with luka and kyrie on less minutes he should be better than playin with Beal and Kuzma obviously

Obviously, you'd expect efficiency to go up in a better situation. But this isn't a 'normal' efficiency change, it's a massive difference, and his volume is up too. That's not normal. What are you missing?

[Archx]

If if if, is your argument

I gave you statistical data, that is not "if" argument.

You're arguing here with at least 5 or 6 Mavs fans and you're still trying to convince them that they're wrong by watching their own team and you're right as a Wizards fan. Make it make sense.

Dude

“If healthy they would have been a higher seed probably. Mavs managed to have a 4th seed last season with Wood and Dinwiddie as their 2nd and 3rd best players before the Kyrie trade? Can you even comprehend how ridiculous that was? ”

That’s an if

And that is a reasonable argument, you can't dismiss everything i wrote by simply pointing out one "if". When all you're doing all this time is pointing out the probables. You also used the same argument with Pelicans IF Ingram was healthy...

[deneem4]

That dude is not even worth debating, he has trouble even saying what he means. He just hates Luka and will regardless, let him.

I don’t hate luka, I don’t understand the obsession of propping him up when he hasn’t gotten to that point yet, let him grow and continue to get better, but don’t blame injuries and his teammates for the success he hasn’t reached…he got to the wcf with Brunson don’t talk down on the rest of that team

James harden got to the wcf in 2015 with a worse roster than that

[deneem4]

I gave you statistical data, that is not "if" argument.

You're arguing here with at least 5 or 6 Mavs fans and you're still trying to convince them that they're wrong by watching their own team and you're right as a Wizards fan. Make it make sense.

Dude

“If healthy they would have been a higher seed probably. Mavs managed to have a 4th seed last season with Wood and Dinwiddie as their 2nd and 3rd best players before the Kyrie trade? Can you even comprehend how ridiculous that was? ”

That’s an if

And that is a reasonable argument, you can't dismiss everything i wrote by simply pointing out one "if". When all you're doing all this time is pointing out the probables. You also used the same argument with Pelicans IF Ingram was healthy...

Yea the only if, I used once in response to you

[deneem4]

That's also a big difference. Thank you for making my point.

Yea he’s playing with luka and kyrie on less minutes he should be better than playin with Beal and Kuzma obviously

Obviously, you'd expect efficiency to go up in a better situation. But this isn't a 'normal' efficiency change, it's a massive difference, and his volume is up too. That's not normal. What are you missing?

Guess we know who the real mvp is

[deneem4]

What’s going to be the excuse if mavs don’t win it all this year???
You guys jus said mavs has a top team and they’re healthy and luka and kyrie are at they’re best

So let’s bookmark this thread to remind of potential excuses, see you guys in may

[blueberrysticky]

What’s going to be the excuse if mavs don’t win it all this year???
You guys jus said mavs has a top team and they’re healthy and luka and kyrie are at they’re best

So let’s bookmark this thread to remind of potential excuses, see you guys in may

[deneem4]

What’s going to be the excuse if mavs don’t win it all this year???
You guys jus said mavs has a top team and they’re healthy and luka and kyrie are at they’re best

So let’s bookmark this thread to remind of potential excuses, see you guys in may

Mavs fans set themselves up for this….
All the arguments are clear