Has Anthony Edwards Surpassed Jayson Tatum?

[nikster]

Magic got to. Kobe as well. Duncan. Not saying Tatum is on their tier, but there have been plenty of great players who got to start on great teams right off the bat, and their stats aren’t thrown out either. The context matters less than you think probably, tbh. At the end of his career all they will see is how much he put up statistically + his awards. Maybe context should weigh in more, but it typically never does. Kobe may be hurt by it because some don’t really ‘count’ his first 3 championships, but he’s still regarded as a top 6-12 player all time depending who you talk to despite being drafted to a perfect situation.

you just named three players. I didn't say no great player was ever selected straight into a dominant team situation, but 99% of great players (who are usually picked high in the draft) - didn't have that luxury

I won't derail this with a Kobe debate, i'm much lower on Kobe than most he's def not in my top 12.

there is another matter here which is the eras, Tatum has played his career at the scoring inflation \ pace and space era, that helps too. it's the same reason every year now this player or other is breaking scoring and PER records

citing stuff like how rare it is for Tatum to have X number of playoff points by 26 is completely disingenious.
it ignores Tatum being a huge outlier in terms of him starting for a great playoff team in his rookie season and every season since,
it ignores the scoring inflation and it ignores the fact that most players (even great ones) didn't come to the league at 19, so they never had even a theorethical chance to play 7 full seasons by 26.

Tatum's durable tho, i'll give him that. that helps him as well to accumalte these stats but it's very negligble if we're focused on commulative playoff stats it def helped him too, but not nearly as much as being on a great team and in this era - have helped him

Tatum's a great player and any team will be glad to have him but let's get real plz.

edit: if these accolades are all that, then i'm sure every franchise would rather build around Tatum than around Ant, right?
30/30 GM's and owners pick ANT in a heartbeat. the "X number of playoff points before age Y" is great for captions on televised games and for future NBA trivia questions but it's pretty irrelvant otherwise

I only named some of the greatest players to ever play the game, lol. I don’t have a whole list of players in my head. Barkley was also drafted into a great situation. Jerry West was drafted on to a team with Baylor already on it. There are probably many others. Not all great players played on crappy teams and organizations to begin with. It shouldn’t be held against players that are.

Are you not holding it against players that don't have the advantage of strong supporting casts by citing those cumulative playoff stats?

[Bad-Thoma]

edit: if these accolades are all that, then i'm sure every franchise would rather build around Tatum than around Ant, right?
30/30 GM's and owners pick ANT in a heartbeat. the "X number of playoff points before age Y" is great for captions on televised games and for future NBA trivia questions but it's pretty irrelvant otherwise

You can't speak for 30/30 GMs and owners, that is pure speculation. It's also pretty silly to throw speculation around like it's a fact and then tell us actual statistics are irrelevant. It's disingenuous and kind of lame when their are plenty of legit arguments to be made for Ant. All accolades, awards, statistical accomplishments, and titles come with context, this is absolutely true but in the end a player is going to be judged on success and statistical accomplishment and the rest will only be debate points for the fans. Mostly they'll be ammunition for haters on a message board somewhere.

Statistically they both track similarly when looking the their seasons at the same age with a slight edge to Tatum on shooting percentages and rebounds and a slight edge to Ant for overall assists and steals. Time will tell.

[Drax]

Ant > Tatum. Tatum is a system player.

That... is the least sensible description of Tatum I have seen yet.

You know he had the second-most isolation sets in the entire league behind just Doncic during the RS, right? Literally, only Luka and Shai scored more off of isos than Tatum. You realize how violently inaccurate is your assessment?

System player mean he is playing on a great team which has a great system in place and thus the system is showing him as much better player than he (allegedly) is. This has been a knock on him from start and will remain there on his career, until he goes to a different team and reaches even higher heights on that team. Kawhi was also called system player before he removed that label with his performance with Raptors.

Since Brad Stevens moved into the front office we didn't have a great system. This team gets carried by its talent not the system, we have/had an ISO offense and rely on 3PT shooting way to much. This team with a coach like Carlisle, Spo or Pop who enforce good offensive sets would go bonkers and Tatum would be the pillar.

[GiannisAnte34]

At this point, it's actually based on 16 playoff games, not 6. Just FWIW.

I can't believe you just told him to f*** his mother, just because he got the playoff games sample wrong.

What are you on about?

Maybe.

Entirely irrelevant to what srhcan just said, and likewise to my response.

A word to the wise is sufficient, I think I understood his message better than you tried to pick it apart

If you specifically quote someone, then what you write should actually relate to what they had posted.

I quoted someone perceiving their statement differently from you. Try to wrap your mind around that and digest it instead of only looking for what's wrong.

[tsherkin]

I quoted someone perceiving their statement differently from you. Try to wrap your mind around that and digest it instead of only looking for what's wrong.

I was quoted. What was said in the post was completely unrelated to anything I said, nor to the passage I'd quoted. That's just non-sensical. A waste of my time, too.

[tsherkin]

System player mean he is playing on a great team which has a great system in place and thus the system is showing him as much better player than he (allegedly) is. This has been a knock on him from start and will remain there on his career, until he goes to a different team and reaches even higher heights on that team. Kawhi was also called system player before he removed that label with his performance with Raptors.

No, that's not what "system player" means. The idea that Boston's system is what showcases him moreso than would be the case elsewhere is off-kilter with his actual skill set. It's a lazy, pejorative term designed to undercut a player. Tatum's weaknesses are well-enumerated at this point; there's nothing specific about Boston's sets which enable him as a POA isolation specialist and pull-up 3pt artist, so it's just an odd thing to use as a label for him.

[Klomp]

Not a perfect comparison of course, but Anthony Edwards has now played in as many playoff games as Tatum did in his first postseason.

Edwards career playoffs (19 games): 29.2 ppg (.508/.403/.832), 5.4 rpg, 4.7 apg, 1.5 spg, 1.3 bpg in 39.3 mpg
Tatum 2017-18 playoffs (19 games): 18.5 ppg (.471/.324/.845), 4.4 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.2 spg, 0.5 bpg in 35.9 mpg

[tsherkin]

Not a perfect comparison of course, but Anthony Edwards has now played in as many playoff games as Tatum did in his first postseason.

Edwards career playoffs (19 games): 29.2 ppg (.508/.403/.832), 5.4 rpg, 4.7 apg, 1.5 spg, 1.3 bpg in 39.3 mpg
Tatum 2017-18 playoffs (19 games): 18.5 ppg (.471/.324/.845), 4.4 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.2 spg, 0.5 bpg in 35.9 mpg

I don't think Ant needs to play as many games as Tatum to prove himself, but maintaining his performance over a lengthy postseason run is pretty important. He's on his way at the moment, looking pretty good.

[thinktank]

Not a perfect comparison of course, but Anthony Edwards has now played in as many playoff games as Tatum did in his first postseason.

Edwards career playoffs (19 games): 29.2 ppg (.508/.403/.832), 5.4 rpg, 4.7 apg, 1.5 spg, 1.3 bpg in 39.3 mpg
Tatum 2017-18 playoffs (19 games): 18.5 ppg (.471/.324/.845), 4.4 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.2 spg, 0.5 bpg in 35.9 mpg

Ant is better than Tatum in this playoffs too.

In this playoffs, Ant’s been the 2nd or 3rd best player.

Advanced stats:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2024_advanced.html#advanced_stats::ts_pct

What’s crazy is he’s 22 and you just know there’s no chance in hell he doesn’t put up a big game tonight.

[tsherkin]

Ant is better than Tatum in this playoffs too.

In this playoffs, Ant’s been the 2nd or 3rd best player.

Advanced stats:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2024_advanced.html#advanced_stats::ts_pct

What’s crazy is he’s 22 and you just know there’s no chance in hell he doesn’t put up a big game tonight.

You understand that is literally just a sorted list of scoring efficiency, right?

[web123888]

Probably. Better scorer, shooter, much more athletic and better finisher around the rim, better playoffs performer. Probably about equal defensively.

Tatum is a #2 option masquerading as a #1 option. Edwards is a legit #1 option.

[DarkAzcura]

you just named three players. I didn't say no great player was ever selected straight into a dominant team situation, but 99% of great players (who are usually picked high in the draft) - didn't have that luxury

I won't derail this with a Kobe debate, i'm much lower on Kobe than most he's def not in my top 12.

there is another matter here which is the eras, Tatum has played his career at the scoring inflation \ pace and space era, that helps too. it's the same reason every year now this player or other is breaking scoring and PER records

citing stuff like how rare it is for Tatum to have X number of playoff points by 26 is completely disingenious.
it ignores Tatum being a huge outlier in terms of him starting for a great playoff team in his rookie season and every season since,
it ignores the scoring inflation and it ignores the fact that most players (even great ones) didn't come to the league at 19, so they never had even a theorethical chance to play 7 full seasons by 26.

Tatum's durable tho, i'll give him that. that helps him as well to accumalte these stats but it's very negligble if we're focused on commulative playoff stats it def helped him too, but not nearly as much as being on a great team and in this era - have helped him

Tatum's a great player and any team will be glad to have him but let's get real plz.

edit: if these accolades are all that, then i'm sure every franchise would rather build around Tatum than around Ant, right?
30/30 GM's and owners pick ANT in a heartbeat. the "X number of playoff points before age Y" is great for captions on televised games and for future NBA trivia questions but it's pretty irrelvant otherwise

I only named some of the greatest players to ever play the game, lol. I don’t have a whole list of players in my head. Barkley was also drafted into a great situation. Jerry West was drafted on to a team with Baylor already on it. There are probably many others. Not all great players played on crappy teams and organizations to begin with. It shouldn’t be held against players that are.

Are you not holding it against players that don't have the advantage of strong supporting casts by citing those cumulative playoff stats?

This is just a silly slippery slope that no one applies to any other players, but it’s Tatum, and he’s in the phase of his career where people will want to nitpick. Like it or not this is how players are looked at historically.

When I was much younger, I used to be super annoyed with how underrated Pierce was and made arguments that if he were on the Lakers, he would have championships next to Shaq as well. In the end, these types of arguments are endless and meaningless because it didn’t happen. You can live in what ifs all you want, though.

[nikster]

I only named some of the greatest players to ever play the game, lol. I don’t have a whole list of players in my head. Barkley was also drafted into a great situation. Jerry West was drafted on to a team with Baylor already on it. There are probably many others. Not all great players played on crappy teams and organizations to begin with. It shouldn’t be held against players that are.

Are you not holding it against players that don't have the advantage of strong supporting casts by citing those cumulative playoff stats?

This is just a silly slippery slope that no one applies to any other players, but it’s Tatum, and he’s in the phase of his career where people will want to nitpick. Like it or not this is how players are looked at historically.

When I was much younger, I used to be super annoyed with how underrated Pierce was and made arguments that if he were on the Lakers, he would have championships next to Shaq as well. In the end, these types of arguments are endless and meaningless because it didn’t happen. You can live in what ifs all you want, though.

Okay but why would cumulative playoff stats over a career be an indicator of who's better right now? (Not comparing careers). I've never seen someone use cumulative stats to compare two active players. It's especially crazy argument when comparing to a player in his 2nd post season.

Edwards has better cumulative stats so far this post season despite playing one less game. Tatum has over 300 more playoff points than Joker, is Tatum a better scorer than him?

[DarkAzcura]

Are you not holding it against players that don't have the advantage of strong supporting casts by citing those cumulative playoff stats?

This is just a silly slippery slope that no one applies to any other players, but it’s Tatum, and he’s in the phase of his career where people will want to nitpick. Like it or not this is how players are looked at historically.

When I was much younger, I used to be super annoyed with how underrated Pierce was and made arguments that if he were on the Lakers, he would have championships next to Shaq as well. In the end, these types of arguments are endless and meaningless because it didn’t happen. You can live in what ifs all you want, though.

Okay but why would cumulative playoff stats over a career be an indicator of who's better right now? (Not comparing careers). I've never seen someone use cumulative stats to compare two active players.

Edwards has better cumulative stats so far this post season despite playing one less game. Tatum has over 300 more playoff points than Joker, is Tatum a better scorer than him?

Oh sure, I agree with you on comparing active players. One of the posters I quoted (maybe it was you) had an issue with those stats being used in general as well. I have a problem with that.

Also, I think in some cases cumulative stats can hurt an active player as it is kind of doing for Tatum for some people. When Tatum was Edwards’ age, he was leading the Celtics to a near Finals appearance putting up 26/10/5 in the playoffs, which are great numbers. People tend to live in the moment as they are doing with Edwards right now, which is fine, but also probably not fair to Tatum as well for a similar reason you think cumulative stats are not a fair comparison for Edwards.

If Tatum didn’t fracture his wrist in 2022 during the Finals, we probably wouldn’t be having this conversation anyway.

[thinktank]

Ant is better than Tatum in this playoffs too.

In this playoffs, Ant’s been the 2nd or 3rd best player.

Advanced stats:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2024_advanced.html#advanced_stats::ts_pct

What’s crazy is he’s 22 and you just know there’s no chance in hell he doesn’t put up a big game tonight.

You understand that is literally just a sorted list of scoring efficiency, right?

Why do snooty when you’re wrong? Geez. You can sort by any of the advanced stats there. Scroll right, ya goof. It’s Jokic and Ant at the top of most if not all of them (BPM, WS, etc.).

Debate the post as strongly as you'd like but don't insult the poster himself. -b

[WentzerWuver]

Not a perfect comparison of course, but Anthony Edwards has now played in as many playoff games as Tatum did in his first postseason.

Edwards career playoffs (19 games): 29.2 ppg (.508/.403/.832), 5.4 rpg, 4.7 apg, 1.5 spg, 1.3 bpg in 39.3 mpg
Tatum 2017-18 playoffs (19 games): 18.5 ppg (.471/.324/.845), 4.4 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.2 spg, 0.5 bpg in 35.9 mpg

Ant is better than Tatum in this playoffs too.

In this playoffs, Ant’s been the 2nd or 3rd best player.

Advanced stats:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2024_advanced.html#advanced_stats::ts_pct

What’s crazy is he’s 22 and you just know there’s no chance in hell he doesn’t put up a big game tonight.

Lol Tatum steps up big when he has to unlike your lover.

[thinktank]

Not a perfect comparison of course, but Anthony Edwards has now played in as many playoff games as Tatum did in his first postseason.

Edwards career playoffs (19 games): 29.2 ppg (.508/.403/.832), 5.4 rpg, 4.7 apg, 1.5 spg, 1.3 bpg in 39.3 mpg
Tatum 2017-18 playoffs (19 games): 18.5 ppg (.471/.324/.845), 4.4 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.2 spg, 0.5 bpg in 35.9 mpg

Ant is better than Tatum in this playoffs too.

In this playoffs, Ant’s been the 2nd or 3rd best player.

Advanced stats:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2024_advanced.html#advanced_stats::ts_pct

What’s crazy is he’s 22 and you just know there’s no chance in hell he doesn’t put up a big game tonight.

Lol Tatum steps up big when he has to unlike your lover.

Homophobia is not cool. Tatum hasn’t won ****. I’m sorry. He’s a great player, however. “Stepping up”. Sure.

Loving that Edwards is outplaying Tatum in the playoffs so far.

EDIT: Celtics fans seem like a greedy bunch. Tatum has never won a chip but they can’t allow any other wing to be viewed as outperforming him. Tatum is great. Ant is better than Tatum was at 22. The metrics bear it out. Celtics just had deeper teams in Tatum’s early years. That’s the difference.

The guy is leading all wings in the playoffs—at 22!!!

[tsherkin]

Ant is better than Tatum in this playoffs too.

In this playoffs, Ant’s been the 2nd or 3rd best player.

Advanced stats:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2024_advanced.html#advanced_stats::ts_pct

What’s crazy is he’s 22 and you just know there’s no chance in hell he doesn’t put up a big game tonight.

You understand that is literally just a sorted list of scoring efficiency, right?

Why do snooty when you’re wrong? Geez. You can sort by any of the advanced stats there. Scroll right, ya goof. It’s Jokic and Ant at the top of most if not all of them (BPM, WS, etc.).

Yes, I saw the table. You specifically linked to a list sorted by TS, though. Yes, Ant is doing well, but a lot of those stats are also heavily weighted towards scoring specifically, as is common with basketball stats. And yes, Ant has been scoring better than Tatum so far, unquestionably.

[thinktank]

You understand that is literally just a sorted list of scoring efficiency, right?

Why do snooty when you’re wrong? Geez. You can sort by any of the advanced stats there. Scroll right, ya goof. It’s Jokic and Ant at the top of most if not all of them (BPM, WS, etc.).

Yes, I saw the table. You specifically linked to a list sorted by TS, though. Yes, Ant is doing well, but a lot of those stats are also heavily weighted towards scoring specifically, as is common with basketball stats. And yes, Ant has been scoring better than Tatum so far, unquestionably.

It’s all the advanced stats and that was bball refs’ cut of the page. I assume you’re smart enough to sort on your own, for what you want to view.

Glad you agree. Ant’s absolutely killing it. You couldn’t ask for him to do more.

[10DayContract]

Probably. Better scorer, shooter, much more athletic and better finisher around the rim, better playoffs performer. Probably about equal defensively.

Tatum is a #2 option masquerading as a #1 option. Edwards is a legit #1 option.

I kind of agree with this too. And I know if the C's win the title one day Boston fans will run and always point this out, as of TODAY, he's a high level 2nd option. He's probably around what Pippen would be if he was in the NBA in 2024. Pippen at his very apex could've probably won a title as the best player on a team too. But think of it like this: If over the last 4-5 years you replaced Tatum with Kobe, we know they'd have won the title already. It wouldn't even be a question.