Masai Ujiri's future with the Raptors might end soon

[JRoy]

WTF has Marks accomplished to justify this much respect?

Marks came into a hopeless situation and did a good job, but became a victim of events outside his control. Masai's was the cause of his own misfortunes. Unlike Masai, Marks understands strategy. When things fell apart, he realised when he had to rebuild and did so.

Jeez the mental gymnastics to somehow think this is insane.

Once one understands the blatant double standard everything else makes sense.

[GiannisAnte34]

Pop refusing to send Kawhi for the best bid and KD/Klay going down is pure luck, so the Championship is a little bit overrated in that respect. Some people might say that trading for a rental mercenary when there is a literal juggernaut super team standing in the way is a poor use of assets, but it's also a necessary risk to capitalize on injury /shrug

Seems like Masai has been on a streak of chasing those risks to pounce on and coming up short

[G R E Y]

Pop refusing to send Kawhi for the best bid and KD/Klay going down is pure luck, so the Championship is a little bit overrated in that respect. Some people might say that trading for a rental mercenary when there is a literal juggernaut super team standing in the way is a poor use of assets, but it's also a necessary risk to capitalize on injury /shrug

Seems like Masai has been on a streak of chasing those risks to pounce on and coming up short

Now that the 'misdiagnosis' ruse has been debunked, this one seems to be making the rounds again. What was the best offer we refused? LAL lowballed knowing #2 insisted on LA. Spurs sought All Star, prospect, picks. TO was the lone team to offer all three without being further handcuffed by getting an albatross contract (Deng) sent back to match salary.

There's absolutely no reason to cater to a player's demands after he so unceremoniously cleaves himself from a team, all the less so if a desired destination doesn't come close to what's asked.

As it turns out, were *still* carrying over higher picks from that deal, including a top 10 protected pick in the incoming 2025 draft.

As to the topic, Ed Rogers taking majority control has to be a harbinger for Ujiri. Too much friction for too long. I suspect this is higher on the list of priorities. If Rogers has any foresight he'll have some replacements in mind before ridding himself a personal nuisance for a short victory lap.

[GiannisAnte34]

Pop refusing to send Kawhi for the best bid and KD/Klay going down is pure luck, so the Championship is a little bit overrated in that respect. Some people might say that trading for a rental mercenary when there is a literal juggernaut super team standing in the way is a poor use of assets, but it's also a necessary risk to capitalize on injury /shrug

Seems like Masai has been on a streak of chasing those risks to pounce on and coming up short

Now that the 'misdiagnosis' ruse has been debunked, this one seems to be making the rounds again. What was the best offer we refused? LAL lowballed knowing #2 insisted on LA. Spurs sought All Star, prospect, picks. TO was the lone team to offer all three without being further handcuffed by getting an albatross contract (Deng) sent back to match salary.

There's absolutely no reason to cater to a player's demands after he so unceremoniously cleaves himself from a team, all the less so if a desired destination doesn't come close to what's asked.

As it turns out, were *still* carrying over higher picks from that deal, including a top 10 protected pick in the incoming 2025 draft.

As to the topic, Ed Rogers taking majority control has to be a harbinger for Ujiri. Too much friction for too long. I suspect this is higher on the list of priorities. If Rogers has any foresight he'll have some replacements in mind before ridding himself a personal nuisance for a short victory lap.

My understanding is the Lakers offered Brandon Ingram, Kyle Kuzma, Lonzo Ball, and the 2019 1st (2nd overall) Grizzlies drafted Ja Morant

Kawhi was adamant about playing in LA, Toronto was made crystal clear on this before they even got him

[nikster]

Pop refusing to send Kawhi for the best bid and KD/Klay going down is pure luck, so the Championship is a little bit overrated in that respect. Some people might say that trading for a rental mercenary when there is a literal juggernaut super team standing in the way is a poor use of assets, but it's also a necessary risk to capitalize on injury /shrug

Seems like Masai has been on a streak of chasing those risks to pounce on and coming up short

There's no hard proof what picks the Lakers actually offered, and any other team could have tried to beat the Raps. But they didn't. How is Masai lucky compared to other GMs when hes had a single post season of a superstar in his entire career as an executive (for which he had to give up assets in a significant gamble)?

The Kawhi trade isn't any luckier than having Giannis fall to 15th overall, and the GSW injuries aren't any luckier than having Kyrie/Harden go down in a 7 game series

[G R E Y]

Pop refusing to send Kawhi for the best bid and KD/Klay going down is pure luck, so the Championship is a little bit overrated in that respect. Some people might say that trading for a rental mercenary when there is a literal juggernaut super team standing in the way is a poor use of assets, but it's also a necessary risk to capitalize on injury /shrug

Seems like Masai has been on a streak of chasing those risks to pounce on and coming up short

Now that the 'misdiagnosis' ruse has been debunked, this one seems to be making the rounds again. What was the best offer we refused? LAL lowballed knowing #2 insisted on LA. Spurs sought All Star, prospect, picks. TO was the lone team to offer all three without being further handcuffed by getting an albatross contract (Deng) sent back to match salary.

There's absolutely no reason to cater to a player's demands after he so unceremoniously cleaves himself from a team, all the less so if a desired destination doesn't come close to what's asked.

As it turns out, were *still* carrying over higher picks from that deal, including a top 10 protected pick in the incoming 2025 draft.

As to the topic, Ed Rogers taking majority control has to be a harbinger for Ujiri. Too much friction for too long. I suspect this is higher on the list of priorities. If Rogers has any foresight he'll have some replacements in mind before ridding himself a personal nuisance for a short victory lap.

My understanding is the Lakers offered Brandon Ingram, Kyle Kuzma, Lonzo Ball, and the 2019 1st (2nd overall) Grizzlies drafted Ja Morant

Kawhi was adamant about playing in LA, Toronto was made crystal clear on this before they even got him

How could that match salaries?

Wasn't all three, it was BI, Deng to match salaries, Ball, and some pick, don't recall which one.

Deng was on LAL's books for a looooong time. Ball was never ever going to play for Spurs. Less him, more his father's drama, and given what we'd just endured with #2's father figure uncle, and given we had Murray/White strength in the back court, it was a bad fit on and off the court. BI was a good prospect but not All Star.

DD's contract had a couple of years left and we got a top 10 protected. Thad we traded for another 1st. Jakob yet another 1st. We made the most of the deal that gave us what we asked, I think.

[GiannisAnte34]

Pop refusing to send Kawhi for the best bid and KD/Klay going down is pure luck, so the Championship is a little bit overrated in that respect. Some people might say that trading for a rental mercenary when there is a literal juggernaut super team standing in the way is a poor use of assets, but it's also a necessary risk to capitalize on injury /shrug

Seems like Masai has been on a streak of chasing those risks to pounce on and coming up short

There's no hard proof what picks the Lakers actually offered, and any other team could have tried to beat the Raps. But they didn't. How is Masai lucky compared to other GMs when hes had a single post season of a superstar in his entire career as an executive (for which he had to give up assets in a significant gamble)?

The Kawhi trade isn't any luckier than having Giannis fall to 15th overall, and the GSW injuries aren't any luckier than having Kyrie/Harden go down in a 7 game series

Giannis was drafted by Hambone, whom many Bucks fans criticized openly for making questionable decisions

and even if Horst was the one who drafted Giannis, a lot of the fans criticize him too for playing it too safe

there's a pretty big difference between the Nets and the Warriors. the Warriors were a well-established dynasty with two superstars who had no injury history (Curry/Durant) Durant going down that season was a bit of a fluke

the Nets big 3 had two known injury prone stars (KD coming off his major injury that kept him out for a full season, and Kyrie who had been injured in the playoffs multiple times and quit on his teams *Boston/Cleveland)

when the Nets proclaimed themselves as inevitable Champions, many people knew it was possible but unlikely because of the fit issues and the known injury history. when the Warriors +KD ragdolled LeBron's super Cavs team, many people were convinced they would win it again the year the Raps gambled on Kawhi

[Vampirate]

I think Masai got suboptimal value for all 4 of Siakam, OG, FVV and Lowry. I also think his Barnes obsession has juiced his value. They should have either kept Barnes in a smaller role, earning minutes, which would have limited the chance of overpayment, or traded him. I really don't think Barnes is that great tbh.

Siakam yes, Siakam should have been traded sooner. FVV walked, but I don't think his trade market was that high (and him walking was a better outcome than keeping him). Lowry you could argue definitely, but he was on the downswing of his career.

OG though got RJ who seems to have turned things around a bit and IQ who's actually a very good player himself, as Knick fans will attest.

The Raptors flat out think Barnes is a franchise player, whether you disagree on that is a different matter. It's on Barnes himself to prove if the FO is correct in that assessment or not.

Barnes doesn't have his ceiling but there were tons of Jokic nay sayers out there before he became the consensus best player in the league It just comes with the territory of a high pick that a franchise is building around.

In other words, just because someone does or doesn't believe in something, doesn't mean it will or will not happen.

[Special_Puppy]

Raptors should have blown it up in 2022 at the latest. Now they are rebuilding with basically no surplus draft picks. That being said Masai is definately an above replacement level GM and if you fire him you are likely going to get a worse GM

[wegotthabeet]

Pop refusing to send Kawhi for the best bid and KD/Klay going down is pure luck, so the Championship is a little bit overrated in that respect. Some people might say that trading for a rental mercenary when there is a literal juggernaut super team standing in the way is a poor use of assets, but it's also a necessary risk to capitalize on injury /shrug

Seems like Masai has been on a streak of chasing those risks to pounce on and coming up short

Now that the 'misdiagnosis' ruse has been debunked, this one seems to be making the rounds again. What was the best offer we refused? LAL lowballed knowing #2 insisted on LA. Spurs sought All Star, prospect, picks. TO was the lone team to offer all three without being further handcuffed by getting an albatross contract (Deng) sent back to match salary.

There's absolutely no reason to cater to a player's demands after he so unceremoniously cleaves himself from a team, all the less so if a desired destination doesn't come close to what's asked.

As it turns out, were *still* carrying over higher picks from that deal, including a top 10 protected pick in the incoming 2025 draft.

As to the topic, Ed Rogers taking majority control has to be a harbinger for Ujiri. Too much friction for too long. I suspect this is higher on the list of priorities. If Rogers has any foresight he'll have some replacements in mind before ridding himself a personal nuisance for a short victory lap.

My understanding is the Lakers offered Brandon Ingram, Kyle Kuzma, Lonzo Ball, and the 2019 1st (2nd overall) Grizzlies drafted Ja Morant

Kawhi was adamant about playing in LA, Toronto was made crystal clear on this before they even got him

They never had the 2nd overall pick in 2019. The pick moved up 7 or 8 spots to 4th overall post lottery, but this was a year after the Kawhi trade.

A Lakers Kawhi trade would have been centered around Ingram, Ball or Kuzma, Deng on a bad contract and a probable very late pick. At the time that might have been perceived as a better trade offer, but retrospectively it wasn't great.

The Spurs tried to get Simmons from Philadelphia, Tatum or Brown from Boston and were turned down by both teams. The Kawhi to Raptors deal came together because of the connection Webster had to the Spurs front office, hence the multiple trades between the two teams. If the Lakers offer was hands down the best he probably ends up there. If they offered what they offered for AD he probably becomes a Laker in 2018.

[djsunyc]

Raptors should have blown it up in 2022 at the latest. Now they are rebuilding with basically no surplus draft picks. That being said Masai is definately an above replacement level GM and if you fire him you are likely going to get a worse GM

they have indy's 2026 first.

[nikster]

Pop refusing to send Kawhi for the best bid and KD/Klay going down is pure luck, so the Championship is a little bit overrated in that respect. Some people might say that trading for a rental mercenary when there is a literal juggernaut super team standing in the way is a poor use of assets, but it's also a necessary risk to capitalize on injury /shrug

Seems like Masai has been on a streak of chasing those risks to pounce on and coming up short

There's no hard proof what picks the Lakers actually offered, and any other team could have tried to beat the Raps. But they didn't. How is Masai lucky compared to other GMs when hes had a single post season of a superstar in his entire career as an executive (for which he had to give up assets in a significant gamble)?

The Kawhi trade isn't any luckier than having Giannis fall to 15th overall, and the GSW injuries aren't any luckier than having Kyrie/Harden go down in a 7 game series

Giannis was drafted by Hambone, whom many Bucks fans criticized openly for making questionable decisions

and even if Horst was the one who drafted Giannis, a lot of the fans criticize him too for playing it too safe

there's a pretty big difference between the Nets and the Warriors. the Warriors were a well-established dynasty with two superstars who had no injury history (Curry/Durant) Durant going down that season was a bit of a fluke

the Nets big 3 had two known injury prone stars (KD coming off his major injury that kept him out for a full season, and Kyrie who had been injured in the playoffs multiple times and quit on his teams *Boston/Cleveland)

when the Nets proclaimed themselves as inevitable Champions, many people knew it was possible but unlikely because of the fit issues and the known injury history. when the Warriors +KD ragdolled LeBron's super Cavs team, many people were convinced they would win it again the year the Raps gambled on Kawhi

Don't see how any of that refuted what I said. Bucks got lucky to have a superstar, just like every title team. Masai had a superstar for all of one season, who was so dead set on going home he left after a title, which is fairly unlucky as far as executives of title winning teams go.

And Warriors weren't as injury prone but they were going on their 5th straight Finals appearance, not crazy that they started to break down. And it's not like Raps were 100% healthy, OG missed the entire run

[Profound23]

Did he get Giannis to Toronto yet?

Every Raptors fan told me it was happening

[Pantsman]

He’s held onto the aura of his title almost as long as doc held onto his.

[GiannisAnte34]

There's no hard proof what picks the Lakers actually offered, and any other team could have tried to beat the Raps. But they didn't. How is Masai lucky compared to other GMs when hes had a single post season of a superstar in his entire career as an executive (for which he had to give up assets in a significant gamble)?

The Kawhi trade isn't any luckier than having Giannis fall to 15th overall, and the GSW injuries aren't any luckier than having Kyrie/Harden go down in a 7 game series

Giannis was drafted by Hambone, whom many Bucks fans criticized openly for making questionable decisions

and even if Horst was the one who drafted Giannis, a lot of the fans criticize him too for playing it too safe

there's a pretty big difference between the Nets and the Warriors. the Warriors were a well-established dynasty with two superstars who had no injury history (Curry/Durant) Durant going down that season was a bit of a fluke

the Nets big 3 had two known injury prone stars (KD coming off his major injury that kept him out for a full season, and Kyrie who had been injured in the playoffs multiple times and quit on his teams *Boston/Cleveland)

when the Nets proclaimed themselves as inevitable Champions, many people knew it was possible but unlikely because of the fit issues and the known injury history. when the Warriors +KD ragdolled LeBron's super Cavs team, many people were convinced they would win it again the year the Raps gambled on Kawhi

Don't see how any of that refuted what I said. Bucks got lucky to have a superstar, just like every title team. Masai had a superstar for all of one season, who was so dead set on going home he left after a title, which is fairly unlucky as far as executives of title winning teams go.

And Warriors weren't as injury prone but they were going on their 5th straight Finals appearance, not crazy that they started to break down. And it's not like Raps were 100% healthy, OG missed the entire run

Stop the cap, if Durant plays the Raps come up short and the gamble on Kawhi looks much more foolish in hindsight because everybody knew the moment the trade went down he was adamant about going to LA. Proven by the fact he still dipped after winning the whole thing….

[nikster]

Giannis was drafted by Hambone, whom many Bucks fans criticized openly for making questionable decisions

and even if Horst was the one who drafted Giannis, a lot of the fans criticize him too for playing it too safe

there's a pretty big difference between the Nets and the Warriors. the Warriors were a well-established dynasty with two superstars who had no injury history (Curry/Durant) Durant going down that season was a bit of a fluke

the Nets big 3 had two known injury prone stars (KD coming off his major injury that kept him out for a full season, and Kyrie who had been injured in the playoffs multiple times and quit on his teams *Boston/Cleveland)

when the Nets proclaimed themselves as inevitable Champions, many people knew it was possible but unlikely because of the fit issues and the known injury history. when the Warriors +KD ragdolled LeBron's super Cavs team, many people were convinced they would win it again the year the Raps gambled on Kawhi

Don't see how any of that refuted what I said. Bucks got lucky to have a superstar, just like every title team. Masai had a superstar for all of one season, who was so dead set on going home he left after a title, which is fairly unlucky as far as executives of title winning teams go.

And Warriors weren't as injury prone but they were going on their 5th straight Finals appearance, not crazy that they started to break down. And it's not like Raps were 100% healthy, OG missed the entire run

Stop the cap, if Durant plays the Raps come up short and the gamble on Kawhi looks much more foolish in hindsight because everybody knew the moment the trade went down he was adamant about going to LA. Proven by the fact he still dipped after winning the whole thing….

Aren't you describing exactly why the trade was not lucky? Masai took a big gamble a lot of teams weren't willing to make, he didnt have a superstar fall in his lap. And if they make it to the finals it's still not looking like a dumb trade.

If Kyrie plays Bucks get eliminated in the 2nd round, and Giannis never has a title and only one conference finals appearance to his name. We'd be talking about him like we do Embiid

[Blazing_royale]

The man helped the Raptors win a championship at the end of the day and that was not suppose to happen. Forever grateful for what Masai did because being the only Canadian team in NBA and winning a championship in an American league is x10 harder than the rest of the 29 other teams.

[jbk1234]

I'd say he fell in love with the long, athletic archetype and overdid it.

If you have Barnes, O.G., and Siakam, why are you trading a first for washed up Thad Young?

Why are you signing Temple and that other stiff while Flynn is still your backup PG? Even re-signing Boucher to that deal was a little questionable.

I also think that it took him too long to realize he didn't really have a contending roster, and as a result, he got less for O.G. and Siakam. It feels like the players arrived at the conclusion it wasn't working before he did. I'll give him credit for not allowing good, but not great players to leverage him into overpaying them though. A lot of GMs would've caved there and assembled a team of expensive pretenders

[Karate Diop]

What are the Raptors planning to do with Bruce Brown?

[Tacoma]

Giannis was drafted by Hambone, whom many Bucks fans criticized openly for making questionable decisions

and even if Horst was the one who drafted Giannis, a lot of the fans criticize him too for playing it too safe

there's a pretty big difference between the Nets and the Warriors. the Warriors were a well-established dynasty with two superstars who had no injury history (Curry/Durant) Durant going down that season was a bit of a fluke

the Nets big 3 had two known injury prone stars (KD coming off his major injury that kept him out for a full season, and Kyrie who had been injured in the playoffs multiple times and quit on his teams *Boston/Cleveland)

when the Nets proclaimed themselves as inevitable Champions, many people knew it was possible but unlikely because of the fit issues and the known injury history. when the Warriors +KD ragdolled LeBron's super Cavs team, many people were convinced they would win it again the year the Raps gambled on Kawhi

Don't see how any of that refuted what I said. Bucks got lucky to have a superstar, just like every title team. Masai had a superstar for all of one season, who was so dead set on going home he left after a title, which is fairly unlucky as far as executives of title winning teams go.

And Warriors weren't as injury prone but they were going on their 5th straight Finals appearance, not crazy that they started to break down. And it's not like Raps were 100% healthy, OG missed the entire run

Stop the cap, if Durant plays the Raps come up short and the gamble on Kawhi looks much more foolish in hindsight because everybody knew the moment the trade went down he was adamant about going to LA. Proven by the fact he still dipped after winning the whole thing….

Yes, IF Durant hadn't been injured & Raptors don't win, the Kawhi gamble fails. But it's a moot point because Raptors did win. If your point is Masai got lucky, then the counterpoint is every winning team has luck on the road to their Championship.

So for example, your Bucks was lucky Kawhi got injured in 2021 playoffs. IF he had played through the playoffs like he did his prior 2 years, they would've made the Finals and beat the Bucks. Kawhi stopped Giannis in 2019, he would've done it again in 2021.

Fact is, Masai had the midas touch on almost everything prior to the Championship. Just about every draft pick turned out well & every trade turned out well. It would be a stretch to say everything he did from 2013 to 2019 was luck, you have to give it to him.

Now if you were to dump on his record did since the 2019 Championship, that's a different matter and there can be a debate on this. But he gets full credit for the Championship. Unless you're also claiming that his luck turned unlucky after 2019.... in which case at least you're consistent.