Did Shai surpass Jayson Tatum last year

[chrisab123]

SGA honestly needs a bigger sample size and I say this as someone who thinks he’s got a great shot at MVP. Right now it’s Tatum.

[5IVE5TAR5]

Anybody with 2 eyes obviously knows that Sga did pass Tatum.

[Ssj16]

So the best player in the league is always on the championship team?

Well… if there’s a best player in the league, then surely that player advances to the Finals?

What lol??? Tons of examples of this not happening. Jordan was 27 when he made his first finals. Kobe didn’t do jack the 05+06+07 seasons until Gasol got there. Two beat downs in 1st round and one year missing playoffs. Wade didn’t make the finals . Wade won in year 3 but didn’t make the finals the other 6 seasons he played pre Heatles era… this is a weird criteria.

SGA likely has a 10 year prime still left. Lots of years.

For the record, the year Lakers got Gasol, Im pretty sure they were first in the west. Did getting Gasol put them over the top? Absolutely, but some people like to always diminish Kobe's accomplishments. Not saying that you are doing this, btw.

[WiggOuts]

Most people think Shai is better not because they don't like Boston but because the eye test tells a lot. Boston obviously has a way better team with more proven vets, when Tatum doesn't play well the other guys can take over for him. Shai always plays good lol if he doesnt no one can replicate what he does.

BOS won and he wasn't even their best player so the argument for/against team success is flawed. The Cs are way further along in thier development. 10 years from now OKC could end up with more chips

[CobraCommander]

Does that mean that Billups was ahead of KG in 2004?

Sure - hyperbole and big leaps are cool on RealGM

But you know if the players close like KG and Duncan - the guy with the ring is better right ?

I don’t think chancey was in KG world ever lol

Billups won Finals MVP. Tatum didn’t. Tatum also didn’t win ECF MVP. Look at their numbers in the playoffs last year.

SGA: 30, 7, and 6, 58.2 TS%, 25.5 PER
Tatum: 25, 10, and 6, 54.9 TS%, 20.1 PER

I think SGA is number 4 in the nba after Embiid, Giannis and Jokic - but I do think You and me have to give Tatum credit for just being a as close to as good as SGA as possible without being decidedly better and winning at an even higher clip. If it’s close I give the nod to the winner and Tatum a big time winner

[Myth]

Well… if there’s a best player in the league, then surely that player advances to the Finals?

What lol??? Tons of examples of this not happening. Jordan was 27 when he made his first finals. Kobe didn’t do jack the 05+06+07 seasons until Gasol got there. Two beat downs in 1st round and one year missing playoffs. Wade didn’t make the finals . Wade won in year 3 but didn’t make the finals the other 6 seasons he played pre Heatles era… this is a weird criteria.

SGA likely has a 10 year prime still left. Lots of years.

For the record, the year Lakers got Gasol, Im pretty sure they were first in the west. Did getting Gasol put them over the top? Absolutely, but some people like to always diminish Kobe's accomplishments. Not saying that you are doing this, btw.

Just looked it up, they were tied for 4th in the West as of February 2nd 2008 (Pau joined them on the 3rd), so just a middle seed. They were 4 games behind 1st seed at 45 games into the season.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2008_standings_by_date_western_conference.html

[Tatumfor2]

I feel like Tatum's the board's favorite litmus test to how good X player is.. any ideas why?

Cause he has the most range out of any top 10 player as to how good he can look on any given night. Sometimes he looks mvp level, sometimes he looks top 20. So no matter who you want to compare him to, there’s a version of him that makes you right.

I'm trying to figure out who the best player is that the GB would agree Tatum is better than. A new thread every day asking if Tatum is better than x player and the answer is always no. This is heading to a thread next week asking if Tatum is better than Kyle Kuzma. I'll vote an early no just to kick off the discussion.

I'm satisfied just calling JT the most successful NBA player of his generation.

He's 26 (same as Shai) and he's been to:

Conference finals 5x
Finals 2x
Won the finals 1x

Celtics baby!

[NZB2323]

Sure - hyperbole and big leaps are cool on RealGM

But you know if the players close like KG and Duncan - the guy with the ring is better right ?

I don’t think chancey was in KG world ever lol

Billups won Finals MVP. Tatum didn’t. Tatum also didn’t win ECF MVP. Look at their numbers in the playoffs last year.

SGA: 30, 7, and 6, 58.2 TS%, 25.5 PER
Tatum: 25, 10, and 6, 54.9 TS%, 20.1 PER

I think SGA is number 4 in the nba after Embiid, Giannis and Jokic - but I do think You and me have to give Tatum credit for just being a as close to as good as SGA as possible without being decidedly better and winning at an even higher clip. If it’s close I give the nod to the winner and Tatum a big time winner

I actually have Tatum ahead of Embiid because Tatum is 3-0 against Embiid in the playoffs, plays more games, goes farther in the playoffs, and dropped 50 on Embiid.

I don’t think Tatum is as to as good as SGA as possible, and I don’t think that a Scottie Pippen type playoff run where Tatum won a championship makes him better.

[Jaqua92]

He hasn’t the last two years.

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OKC is gonna smoke Boston in the playoffs I’ve put that out there over and over early so you guys can bump this later. Tatum wasn’t even the best player on his own team in the finals man. That ends the argument alone probably. SGA is not getting outplayed by any teammates.

OKC got smoked by a lesser talented team. And you seem to think an underachieving team will elevate to an all time great championship team in one season.

Good grief.

And Chet looks MVP caliber, Hartenstein and Caruso are monster pickups, another year of chemistry, Jalen Williams leap most likely.

So now OKC has two MVPs and the deepest team.

I get you now man. You genuinely believe this OKC squad is one of the 5 best teams of all time


Got it.

Sent from my SM-G975U using RealGM mobile app

[Jaqua92]

Cause he has the most range out of any top 10 player as to how good he can look on any given night. Sometimes he looks mvp level, sometimes he looks top 20. So no matter who you want to compare him to, there’s a version of him that makes you right.

I'm trying to figure out who the best player is that the GB would agree Tatum is better than. A new thread every day asking if Tatum is better than x player and the answer is always no. This is heading to a thread next week asking if Tatum is better than Kyle Kuzma. I'll vote an early no just to kick off the discussion.

I'm satisfied just calling JT the most successful NBA player of his generation.

He's 26 (same as Shai) and he's been to:

Conference finals 5x
Finals 2x
Won the finals 1x

Celtics baby!

And this is the answer to why no one can be objective.

SGA and AD over him at this point is downright silly


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[Jaqua92]

Most people think Shai is better not because they don't like Boston but because the eye test tells a lot. Boston obviously has a way better team with more proven vets, when Tatum doesn't play well the other guys can take over for him. Shai always plays good lol if he doesnt no one can replicate what he does.

BOS won and he wasn't even their best player so the argument for/against team success is flawed. The Cs are way further along in thier development. 10 years from now OKC could end up with more chips

Tatum has taken two different versions of the Celtics, lesser talented versions, to 4 conference finals and a finals.


Why do we forget that things happened after last season?

Could it be that the Celtics dominated because Tatum who has shown near championship level player on multiple rosters throughout his career, has a team around him?

This is ceiling raising. Not carrying. If Tatum hasn't done **** prior, fine...

But he's a conference finals MVP, and lead two different teams to 4 conference finals and a finals before they stacked the roster around him.

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[WiggOuts]

Most people think Shai is better not because they don't like Boston but because the eye test tells a lot. Boston obviously has a way better team with more proven vets, when Tatum doesn't play well the other guys can take over for him. Shai always plays good lol if he doesnt no one can replicate what he does.

BOS won and he wasn't even their best player so the argument for/against team success is flawed. The Cs are way further along in thier development. 10 years from now OKC could end up with more chips

Tatum has taken two different versions of the Celtics, lesser talented versions, to 4 conference finals and a finals.


Why do we forget that things happened after last season?

Could it be that the Celtics dominated because Tatum who has shown near championship level player on multiple rosters throughout his career, has a team around him?

This is ceiling raising. Not carrying. If Tatum hasn't done **** prior, fine...

But he's a conference finals MVP, and lead two different teams to 4 conference finals and a finals before they stacked the roster around him.

Sent from my SM-G975U using RealGM mobile app

I disagree that hes "lead" these teams as you say. Hes definitely the most talented player on Boston and he's had games where he's been their best player but they never seem to be at the most important times. Theres no denying how good the Cs are. Those lesser teams still had Jalen Brown on them and were always near the top of the east.

With respect to the thread, Shai is playing in a much tougher conference, has less proven talent on his team which is also much earlier in its developmental process.

I've always liked Tatum but it feels like he needs to take better shots and be more efficient. It kinda feels like hes not that clutch either

[Onlytimewilltel]

You should have probably had a poll on this. It seems like the consensus is that most folks think that currently SGA is the better player. Yet you have a couple of fanatics trying to convince everyone otherwise lol.

Hopefully Tatum can actually win the finals MVP this time around instead of being outplayed by his teammate like the last 2 finals appearances.

[Jamaaliver]

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[tsherkin]

I think Shai has been better for 2 years now, and pretty clearly so. But Tatum is doing mostly what Boston needs and they're coming off a ring with a pretty good chance at a repeat, so I don't think anyone there is complaining at the moment, heh.

[Lo Wang]

SGA plays better defense more consistently, but Tatum is capable of locking in and his size gives him the ability to guard more positions.

Generally, I'm partial to the taller guy who shoots better. Also, I'm always a little down on players who average more than 6 FTA per game because it's almost always is a result of at least one unearned trip to the foul line. SGA is an immensely talented player, but the way he's allowed to use his hands on the perimeter and gets rewarded for barreling into the paint bothers me.

Why does it bother you?

If a foul is not called or called unfairly, how is it SGA's fault?

The term foul merchant is a completely meaningless term.

SGA doesn't control the whistle.

[Lo Wang]

As for the thread, the only way SGA will pass Tatum is if he wins more rings. The definition of "surpassing" needs to be established. Passing in what ways? A better overall career? Scorer? More skilled?

Career: no
Skilled: yes
Scoring: yes
Better player : yes

[jbk1234]

SGA plays better defense more consistently, but Tatum is capable of locking in and his size gives him the ability to guard more positions.

Generally, I'm partial to the taller guy who shoots better. Also, I'm always a little down on players who average more than 6 FTA per game because it's almost always is a result of at least one unearned trip to the foul line. SGA is an immensely talented player, but the way he's allowed to use his hands on the perimeter and gets rewarded for barreling into the paint bothers me.

Why does it bother you?

If a foul is not called or called unfairly, how is it SGA's fault?

The term foul merchant is a completely meaningless term.

SGA doesn't control the whistle.

That's a bit of a silly question. It's fundamentally unfair that guys go to the line without actually being fouled, especially when a good defender picks up a phantom foul that counts towards his limit. It's even worse with SGA because unlike most superstars he does a lot of grabbing on the perimeter when he's defending.

[Lo Wang]

SGA plays better defense more consistently, but Tatum is capable of locking in and his size gives him the ability to guard more positions.

Generally, I'm partial to the taller guy who shoots better. Also, I'm always a little down on players who average more than 6 FTA per game because it's almost always is a result of at least one unearned trip to the foul line. SGA is an immensely talented player, but the way he's allowed to use his hands on the perimeter and gets rewarded for barreling into the paint bothers me.

Why does it bother you?

If a foul is not called or called unfairly, how is it SGA's fault?

The term foul merchant is a completely meaningless term.

SGA doesn't control the whistle.

That's a bit of a silly question. It's fundamentally unfair that guys go to the line without actually being fouled, especially when a good defender picks up a phantom foul that counts towards his limit. It's even worse with SGA because unlike most superstars he does a lot of grabbing on the perimeter when he's defending.

If the ref is calling phantom fouls, that's his fault.

If SGA is grabbing other players, that is a foul. A non call is still a bad call.

Again, how is it SGA's fault when the ref's control the whistle?

[jbk1234]

Why does it bother you?

If a foul is not called or called unfairly, how is it SGA's fault?

The term foul merchant is a completely meaningless term.

SGA doesn't control the whistle.

That's a bit of a silly question. It's fundamentally unfair that guys go to the line without actually being fouled, especially when a good defender picks up a phantom foul that counts towards his limit. It's even worse with SGA because unlike most superstars he does a lot of grabbing on the perimeter when he's defending.

If the ref is calling phantom fouls, that's his fault.

If SGA is grabbing other players, that is a foul. A non call is still a bad call.

Again, how is it SGA's fault when the ref's control the whistle?

It doesn't matter who controls it, the point is that it results in an unfair advantage. The question in this thread is who is better. If one of them is receiving an unfair advantage, it impacts the answer.