Is Jamal Murray washed?

[Ryoga Hibiki]

great idea, this is the best moment to trade him
what return do you expect?

I think people are so locked into “buy low, sell high,” that they fail to understand that shouldn’t be the trigger for buying or selling. In fact, it’s not about the past or present, you make moves based on your projected future.

It doesn’t matter if Murray’s trade value is low right now. The question DEN should ask, is whether they think it will go lower. If he plays poorly for the next three months, will they need to give up assets to get off that contract for an expensive Nuggets team? If they wait three months and he still plays poorly, do they eliminate potential buyers who right now, think there is a chance Murray returns to form? Or does DEN think Murray is simply slumping, and they just need to ride it out, and his value will rise?

High Clyde’s opinion to trade him is reasonable, if that’s what DEN sees. The current value of a player doesn’t predict the best moment to trade him. That moment comes when a front office makes a determination about a player’s future, especially if it disagrees with at least one possible trade partner.

of course it matters, it means that you would need to attach assets and get back bad contracts to trade him. what's next for for Denver, after that? Contending days are over for sure.
whatever odds you're giving Murray to get back to at least decent are by far the best they have to win another title.
your point would be valid if tbey had other outs, but they don't.

moreover, it's very unlikely that Murray's trade value could get any lower. nobody is looking for him, so Denver would need to shop him. why would a contender trade a guy they just extended, they won a title with, and fit with Jokic? only if he's damaged beyond repair = totally dead money.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

I think people are so locked into “buy low, sell high,” that they fail to understand that shouldn’t be the trigger for buying or selling. In fact, it’s not about the past or present, you make moves based on your projected future.

It doesn’t matter if Murray’s trade value is low right now. The question DEN should ask, is whether they think it will go lower. If he plays poorly for the next three months, will they need to give up assets to get off that contract for an expensive Nuggets team? If they wait three months and he still plays poorly, do they eliminate potential buyers who right now, think there is a chance Murray returns to form? Or does DEN think Murray is simply slumping, and they just need to ride it out, and his value will rise?

High Clyde’s opinion to trade him is reasonable, if that’s what DEN sees. The current value of a player doesn’t predict the best moment to trade him. That moment comes when a front office makes a determination about a player’s future, especially if it disagrees with at least one possible trade partner.

I think people have a hard time seeing it from anyone perspective but their own.

He has zero trade value.

If he had a shorter deal, you could potentially convince a club to take on some risk. No one is going to take on his $200 million plus contract with the way he is playing. I don't even think it's a question of assets, like Warriors had to attach a 1st round pick plus a player who was just drafted in the 1st to take on Pooles contract, and he was 23 at the time of the trade, and making half as much.

Now Poole was much younger, but Murray has a much longer track record and is probably worth more in trade, or maybe he isn't, because if teams attribute his decline to injury, no team is going to trade for 4/200M+ until he shows he is fully recovered. Unless you want to call an Ainge and make a stupid offer like four plus first rounders to take a problem off your hands, remember Poole was moved for two first rounders, was younger, made half as much, and they maned to dump Paul 30M salary in the trade; he also wasn't coming off a potential career-altering injury.

It isn't a question of whether the Nuggets want to move Murray; the question is, who is trading for that contract for someone whose viewed as damaged goods at this point? The answer is nobody

if Denver puts him on the market, he'll radioactive trade value. zero would be a pipe dream

[Crunch 99]

Murray goes off for big game to lead Denver to a win over Memphis. Denver is still playing without Jokic and Gordon. Memphis was playing without Morant, Smart and Edey.

[nomansland]

In the first quarter I was pretty worried. He was bricking 3's, turning the ball over and slipping on defense. But he turned it around and had a nice game. 3 steals and 2 blocks to go along with a very nice shooting night.

[dhsilv2]

Murray goes off for big game to lead Denver to a win over Memphis. Denver is still playing without Jokic and Gordon. Morant, Smart and Edey out for Memphis.

He had a nice game and a few others shot lights out. A good sign but that level of shooting isn't sustainable. None the less, it was a great game by the "others".

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Murray goes off for big game to lead Denver to a win over Memphis. Denver is still playing without Jokic and Gordon. Morant, Smart and Edey out for Memphis.

°goes off° sounds a bit too much

[nomansland]

Murray goes off for big game to lead Denver to a win over Memphis. Denver is still playing without Jokic and Gordon. Morant, Smart and Edey out for Memphis.

He had a nice game and a few others shot lights out. A good sign but that level of shooting isn't sustainable. None the less, it was a great game by the "others".

He's not going to get 27 every night but there's no reason to think he can't average 20-21 points a game.

[dhsilv2]

Murray goes off for big game to lead Denver to a win over Memphis. Denver is still playing without Jokic and Gordon. Morant, Smart and Edey out for Memphis.

He had a nice game and a few others shot lights out. A good sign but that level of shooting isn't sustainable. None the less, it was a great game by the "others".

He's not going to get 27 every night but there's no reason to think he can't average 20-21 points a game.

OK...but Braun isn't shooting 7-12, Watson 6-10, you might say it's bad Porter was 0-4 from 3 but he still be 11-21 with 24 pounds (and a monster first half) isn't going to keep happening. Even Westbrook shot over 40%!

Meanwhile Murray shooting 5-10 from 3 is great, but we all know he's inconsistent from distance.

[Raps in 4]

He's always been streaky. People only remember his 2023 hot streak in the playoffs. But he's been a low efficiency chucker for extended stretches throughout his career.

Having said that, injuries may have also contributed to a decline.

[nomansland]

He had a nice game and a few others shot lights out. A good sign but that level of shooting isn't sustainable. None the less, it was a great game by the "others".

He's not going to get 27 every night but there's no reason to think he can't average 20-21 points a game.

OK...but Braun isn't shooting 7-12, Watson 6-10, you might say it's bad Porter was 0-4 from 3 but he still be 11-21 with 24 pounds (and a monster first half) isn't going to keep happening. Even Westbrook shot over 40%!

Meanwhile Murray shooting 5-10 from 3 is great, but we all know he's inconsistent from distance.

Overall they were 33% from 3. They're going to be better than that most nights, it's just that different people will step up.

I dunno, Murray had a couple of bad games but I'm not entirely buying the narrative that he's toast or that "this is who he is." It's a long season.

[Woodsanity]

I don't think Murray is toast. If he came into the season in shape he would have been fine. He is just lazy and not putting in the work.

[dhsilv2]

He's not going to get 27 every night but there's no reason to think he can't average 20-21 points a game.

OK...but Braun isn't shooting 7-12, Watson 6-10, you might say it's bad Porter was 0-4 from 3 but he still be 11-21 with 24 pounds (and a monster first half) isn't going to keep happening. Even Westbrook shot over 40%!

Meanwhile Murray shooting 5-10 from 3 is great, but we all know he's inconsistent from distance.

Overall they were 33% from 3. They're going to be better than that most nights, it's just that different people will step up.

I dunno, Murray had a couple of bad games but I'm not entirely buying the narrative that he's toast or that "this is who he is." It's a long season.

I'd like to think he'll get himself back into form. But he has NEVER been the guy who's had some favorable matchup in the playoffs and looked like a legit all NBA guy either. He's always been somewhere between a weirdly good scorer for a non allstar or a last few guys selected type allstar. And I think he'll eventually play back into that.

[Alatan]

People fawning at Murrays hot stretches need to take into account that the guy even on his good days doesnt bring offensive gravity to help his team out. If a player is a consistent threat to drive, shoot or post up, teams will guard him tight even on his off nights, while if a guy is as streaky and dependent on weird turnaround jumpers teams will roll the dice on him and make the game harder for the rest.

Having a streaky scoring guard is nice if he is your 3rd or 4th offensive option but having him as your 2nd best player is horrible.

Id much rather have a guy that is a consistent threat from the 3 and puts 15 every game than a guy that swings between giving you 30 and shooting you out of the game with his 6/20 with 5 turnovers and no defense.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

He had a nice game and a few others shot lights out. A good sign but that level of shooting isn't sustainable. None the less, it was a great game by the "others".

He's not going to get 27 every night but there's no reason to think he can't average 20-21 points a game.

OK...but Braun isn't shooting 7-12, Watson 6-10, you might say it's bad Porter was 0-4 from 3 but he still be 11-21 with 24 pounds (and a monster first half) isn't going to keep happening. Even Westbrook shot over 40%!

Meanwhile Murray shooting 5-10 from 3 is great, but we all know he's inconsistent from distance.

Brown is shooting 7-12 and Watson 6-10, on those shot diets, it's nothing crazy.

[dhsilv2]

He's not going to get 27 every night but there's no reason to think he can't average 20-21 points a game.

OK...but Braun isn't shooting 7-12, Watson 6-10, you might say it's bad Porter was 0-4 from 3 but he still be 11-21 with 24 pounds (and a monster first half) isn't going to keep happening. Even Westbrook shot over 40%!

Meanwhile Murray shooting 5-10 from 3 is great, but we all know he's inconsistent from distance.

Brown is shooting 7-12 and Watson 6-10, on those shot diets, it's nothing crazy.

Well if they can go a seasons hooting over 60%, I think this team can win it all!

[Ryoga Hibiki]

OK...but Braun isn't shooting 7-12, Watson 6-10, you might say it's bad Porter was 0-4 from 3 but he still be 11-21 with 24 pounds (and a monster first half) isn't going to keep happening. Even Westbrook shot over 40%!

Meanwhile Murray shooting 5-10 from 3 is great, but we all know he's inconsistent from distance.

Brown is shooting 7-12 and Watson 6-10, on those shot diets, it's nothing crazy.

Well if they can go a seasons hooting over 60%, I think this team can win it all!

if they take the shots they took last night, most of them at the rim, off cuts or in transition, they'll keep shooting 60%.
That was NOT unsustainable shooting, they went 2/7 from 3, just the Nuggets managed to generate tons of paint opportunities.

[dhsilv2]

Brown is shooting 7-12 and Watson 6-10, on those shot diets, it's nothing crazy.

Well if they can go a seasons hooting over 60%, I think this team can win it all!

if they take the shots they took last night, most of them at the rim, off cuts or in transition, they'll keep shooting 60%.
That was NOT unsustainable shooting, they went 2/7 from 3, just the Nuggets managed to generate tons of paint opportunities.

I'd assume part of "shooting" is being able to keep getting those same looks right?

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Well if they can go a seasons hooting over 60%, I think this team can win it all!

if they take the shots they took last night, most of them at the rim, off cuts or in transition, they'll keep shooting 60%.
That was NOT unsustainable shooting, they went 2/7 from 3, just the Nuggets managed to generate tons of paint opportunities.

I'd assume part of "shooting" is being able to keep getting those same looks right?

not really, because those looks were not randomly generated. they came from aggressive defense and ball movement, meaning the Nuggets as a team were playing and executing well (against the mighty Grizzlies).
when we talm about "unsustainable shooting" it's on jumpers, from 2 or from 3, that go in at percentages you can't expect to have consistently. That's often just statistical variance, not proof a superior execution.

[dhsilv2]

if they take the shots they took last night, most of them at the rim, off cuts or in transition, they'll keep shooting 60%.
That was NOT unsustainable shooting, they went 2/7 from 3, just the Nuggets managed to generate tons of paint opportunities.

I'd assume part of "shooting" is being able to keep getting those same looks right?

not really, because those looks were not randomly generated. they came from aggressive defense and ball movement, meaning the Nuggets as a team were playing and executing well (against the mighty Grizzlies).
when we talm about "unsustainable shooting" it's on jumpers, from 2 or from 3, that go in at percentages you can't expect to have consistently. That's often just statistical variance, not proof a superior execution.

So you think that group of players can keep getting 15 steals in a game and do that level of ball movement? The question is if it's sustainable.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

I'd assume part of "shooting" is being able to keep getting those same looks right?

not really, because those looks were not randomly generated. they came from aggressive defense and ball movement, meaning the Nuggets as a team were playing and executing well (against the mighty Grizzlies).
when we talm about "unsustainable shooting" it's on jumpers, from 2 or from 3, that go in at percentages you can't expect to have consistently. That's often just statistical variance, not proof a superior execution.

So you think that group of players can keep getting 15 steals in a game and do that level of ball movement? The question is if it's sustainable.

that's a good game against an injured team.
yiu don't always have good game, you don't always play good defense, you don't always push the pace.
but that has a much bigger predictive value than a hot shooting night, but because that might be a template flr the non jokic minutes in the future.

otherwise you could dismiss literally any win by ant team.