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[JM00n69]

westbrook would stat pad to get triple doubles by stealing defensive rebounds off free throws, things like that with questionable in-game value. jokic being a 7' hub and his teammates paying off his passing for easy looks? come on.

So for all those 4 years he averaged a triple dub he was just stealing rebounds off missed FTs? The three years when he averaged it at OKC they played Steven Adams at 5 and didn't have a decent PF. The team plan after a shot went up was for Adams to block out and Russ to crash the boards and start the break, which he was very good at.

That last year he averaged a triple dub at WAS idk, never watched them but were a bottom team so stats are infated 100%. It's still impressive though and throwing shade at someone for averaging a triple dub for four years is mad. Especially a PG.

i'm not throwing shade. i'm making a distinction. whether you believe westbrook was stat padding or not, the notion of stat padding by hogging defensive rebounds is much different than the notion of stat padding by producing quantifiable offense for your team.

I'm a DEN fan of 25 years, Jokic is not stat padding and his ability to run an offence by being a scoring threat from anywhere/his passing and ball handling are at GOAT tier levels this year.

I'm pointing out that when Russ averaged a triple dub for three years at OKC, the rebounding part of it was due to the defensive team game plan for the bigs to box out and for Russ to go after the Dboards and to then start the fast break. He's an elite rebounder both sides for his position and it's always been part of his game. Still doing it this year for DEN.

Saying he stat padded is throwing shade at him. He's always been a monster at rebounding and for a PG to avg 7PRG over 17yrs that's not stat padding.If played a different position no one would have this take. Steven Adams playing the five those three years at OKC still had over 10RPG I'm pretty sure.

[JM00n69]

^I've just checked, he's the all time leader in total rebounds at the PG position. And third AT for RPG (7.0) after Magic at two (7.3) and Big O at nr 1 (7.5)

[HotRocks34]

The "inflated stats era" argument is meaningless because no one else in that supposedly weak era can do this.

Westbrook has his critics but the one thing pure about his stats is the energy level it takes to get them. Sure, your teammates can box out opponents and leave the rebound for you, but averaging a triple double takes a consistent level of energy, along with ability, most guys just don't have.

I love Westbrook and have always respected what he's done, and I'm glad that he and Jokic, the king and king to be of the triple double, are getting to play together.

There are only three 20/20/20 games in NBA history:

Wilt 1968 (22/25/21)
Russ 2019 (20/21/20)
Jokic 2025 (31/21/22)

Wilt, like Jokic, is one of only four (I think) guys in NBA history to have ever, in their careers, led a playoffs in all three of Total PTS, REB, and AST.

Wilt 1964.....lead playoffs in PTS & REB
Wilt 1967.....lead playoffs in REB & AST

LBJ 2007.....lead playoffs in PTS & AST
LBJ 2012.....lead playoffs in PTS & REB
LBJ 2013.....lead playoffs in PTS & AST
LBJ 2015.....lead playoffs in PTS & AST
LBJ 2017.....lead playoffs in PTS & AST
LBJ 2018.....lead playoffs in PTS & AST
LBJ 2020.....lead playoffs in REB & AST

JOK 2023....lead plyf in PTS & REB & AST

LUK 2024....lead plyf in PTS & REB & AST


I'm not sure if Wilt was capable of leading a playoffs in PTS, REB and AST in the same postseason. LeBron is capable and just about did it in 2020.

For Wilt, when his playoff points were higher, his assists were lower. And when his assists were higher, his points were lower.

[Ice Man]

I'm pointing out that when Russ averaged a triple dub for three years at OKC, the rebounding part of it was due to the defensive team game plan for the bigs to box out and for Russ to go after the Dboards and to then start the fast break. He's an elite rebounder both sides for his position and it's always been part of his game. Still doing it this year for DEN.

Side point, but the same applies to Caitlin Clark. She's a genuinely good rebounder for a guard, plus her teams follow the Russ strategy by boxing out and permitting her to get the uncontested rebound. Thus, she led the WNBA in rebounds for a guard during her rookie year, and led NCAA women's hoops in rebounds for a guard when at Iowa.

I guess what I'm saying is that if Russ can be called a stat stuffer for his rebounds (which I do not believe), then Caitlin should be, too.

[cupcakesnake]

Funny how when Westbrook did stuff like this we poo pooed it, but now that it’s Jokic we’re jizzing on him.

I definitely missed Westbrook's 30/20/20 on 65%ts. Maybe you can link me.

[cupcakesnake]

Jokic is a stat chaser. Only reason he got this stat line is because he blew the lead against the tanking Suns and went to OT. A lot of his assists were also just passes to red hot shooters. Dominated the ball so he benefited from just dumping it to a flaming red roster. People used to rag about Westbrook stat padding, but Jokic puts him to shame. Great player, just like peak Russ was, but massively overrated by analytics.

This is a remarkably bad take. Yeah, the Suns were quite bad. That's fairly normal for a big game like this. Assists require guys to make shots. That's also... inescapably true. Basically, you're making a bunch of excuses for him having an incredible and basically unprecedented game.

I think UglyBugBall is a Luka fan who sees anything Jokic does as somehow taking away from Luka. Ironically, Luka probably is the next most likely guy to have a 30/20/20 game but I doubt we'll hear UglyBugBall call Luka a stat chaser, or try to frame the game in the most negative light if that happens.

I like to root for and against basketball players too, but I don't understand how fans who have watched the game for as long as most people on this forum have can choose to be so deliberately biased and unashamedly give indefensibly awful takes just to push their feelings and opinions out.

[tsherkin]

The "inflated stats era" argument is meaningless because no one else in that supposedly weak era can do this.

It's also a daft argument because of the entire pre-merger era.

[JM00n69]

I'm pointing out that when Russ averaged a triple dub for three years at OKC, the rebounding part of it was due to the defensive team game plan for the bigs to box out and for Russ to go after the Dboards and to then start the fast break. He's an elite rebounder both sides for his position and it's always been part of his game. Still doing it this year for DEN.

Side point, but the same applies to Caitlin Clark. She's a genuinely good rebounder for a guard, plus her teams follow the Russ strategy by boxing out and permitting her to get the uncontested rebound. Thus, she led the WNBA in rebounds for a guard during her rookie year, and was leading the NCAA in rebounds for a guard when at Iowa.

I don't watch the WNBA sorry so not sure if this is a sarcastic response. It is a different league though. Should we compare Wilt to that dude who scored 130 in a pick up game?

[AleksandarN]

Jokic is a stat chaser. Only reason he got this stat line is because he blew the lead against the tanking Suns and went to OT. A lot of his assists were also just passes to red hot shooters. Dominated the ball so he benefited from just dumping it to a flaming red roster. People used to rag about Westbrook stat padding, but Jokic puts him to shame. Great player, just like peak Russ was, but massively overrated by analytics.

This is a remarkably bad take. Yeah, the Suns were quite bad. That's fairly normal for a big game like this. Assists require guys to make shots. That's also... inescapably true. Basically, you're making a bunch of excuses for him having an incredible and basically unprecedented game.

I think UglyBugBall is a Luka fan who sees anything Jokic does as somehow taking away from Luka. Ironically, Luka probably is the next most likely guy to have a 30/20/20 game but I doubt we'll hear UglyBugBall call Luka a stat chaser, or try to frame the game in the most negative light if that happens.

I like to root for and against basketball players too, but I don't understand how fans who have watched the game for as long as most people on this forum have can choose to be so deliberately biased and unashamedly give indefensibly awful takes just to push their feelings and opinions out.

The irony of it is jokic and Luka are close friends. Luka is half Serbian himself. I bet Luka would never call Jokic a stat padder and vice versa

[JM00n69]

Jokic is a stat chaser. Only reason he got this stat line is because he blew the lead against the tanking Suns and went to OT. A lot of his assists were also just passes to red hot shooters. Dominated the ball so he benefited from just dumping it to a flaming red roster. People used to rag about Westbrook stat padding, but Jokic puts him to shame. Great player, just like peak Russ was, but massively overrated by analytics.

This is a remarkably bad take. Yeah, the Suns were quite bad. That's fairly normal for a big game like this. Assists require guys to make shots. That's also... inescapably true. Basically, you're making a bunch of excuses for him having an incredible and basically unprecedented game.

I think UglyBugBall is a Luka fan who sees anything Jokic does as somehow taking away from Luka. Ironically, Luka probably is the next most likely guy to have a 30/20/20 game but I doubt we'll hear UglyBugBall call Luka a stat chaser, or try to frame the game in the most negative light if that happens.

I like to root for and against basketball players too, but I don't understand how fans who have watched the game for as long as most people on this forum have can choose to be so deliberately biased and unashamedly give indefensibly awful takes just to push their feelings and opinions out.

This is THE point and I don't get it either. I hated Lakers back in the day because of how insuffarable and loud the casual LA fans were. Made me see Kobe as a villain. Same with Curry and the massive GSW bandwagon that came about. When they lost a game it felt like a win to me. But I've always respected the players and their talen, the work they've put in on the court and off. To hate on a player just because you want someone else to be better than them who isn't is nuts. I get being a homer to your team but to a player? Wtf

[Big J]

Must suck to be this bitter.

Nope, like pointing out double standards.

It’s sad that you have so much hate. You can’t recognize and congratulate a guy who made history. It’s sad bro. I can’t imagine having this much hate that you can’t appreciate the history and greatness that is right in front of you. It is sad.

Nobody recognized Westbrook making history. They just hated on him. I'm not hating, just pointing things out. You are interpreting that as hating.

[cupcakesnake]

I'm pointing out that when Russ averaged a triple dub for three years at OKC, the rebounding part of it was due to the defensive team game plan for the bigs to box out and for Russ to go after the Dboards and to then start the fast break. He's an elite rebounder both sides for his position and it's always been part of his game. Still doing it this year for DEN.

Side point, but the same applies to Caitlin Clark. She's a genuinely good rebounder for a guard, plus her teams follow the Russ strategy by boxing out and permitting her to get the uncontested rebound. Thus, she led the WNBA in rebounds for a guard during her rookie year, and was leading the NCAA in rebounds for a guard when at Iowa.

I don't watch the WNBA sorry so not sure if this is a sarcastic response. It is a different league though. Should we compare Wilt to that dude who scored 130 in a pick up game?

The strategy is the same thing and therefore comparable. Prioritizing getting the ball into the hands of your transition playmaker as quickly as possible. If they're a strong rebounder, that's the quickest way to do it!

It shouldn't be overly used as a point for or against Russ, imo. People who obsess over triple doubles, should be aware that Russ probably isn't an organic 10rpg guy. People should also know that Russ is one of the best rebounding guards ever, and the fact that he's such a good transition player means rebounds are extra valuable in his hands.

Most of this holds true for Clark. I think it's fair to compare different leagues when we're talking about something on a strategic level. No one is comparing their achievements or qualitty in this discussion.

[HotRocks34]

There are are only three 20/20/20 games in NBA history:

Wilt 1968 (22/25/21)
Russ 2019 (20/21/20)
Jokic 2025 (31/21/22)

Pace of these games (possessions):

* Wilt 1968 = ?

Unknown, but Wilt's Sixers took 103 FGA and 32 FTA in the game. The Sixers average pace that year was 124. To compare, Denver (with overtime) took 97 FGA and 18 FTA last night.

* Russ 2019 = 104.3 pace

* Jokic 2025 = 96.1 pace

[cupcakesnake]

This is a remarkably bad take. Yeah, the Suns were quite bad. That's fairly normal for a big game like this. Assists require guys to make shots. That's also... inescapably true. Basically, you're making a bunch of excuses for him having an incredible and basically unprecedented game.

I think UglyBugBall is a Luka fan who sees anything Jokic does as somehow taking away from Luka. Ironically, Luka probably is the next most likely guy to have a 30/20/20 game but I doubt we'll hear UglyBugBall call Luka a stat chaser, or try to frame the game in the most negative light if that happens.

I like to root for and against basketball players too, but I don't understand how fans who have watched the game for as long as most people on this forum have can choose to be so deliberately biased and unashamedly give indefensibly awful takes just to push their feelings and opinions out.

This is THE point and I don't get it either. I hated Lakers back in the day because of how insuffarable and loud the casual LA fans were. Made me see Kobe as a villain. Same with Curry and the massive GSW bandwagon that came about. When they lost a game it felt like a win to me. But I've always respected the players and their talen, the work they've put in on the court and off. To hate on a player just because you want someone else to be better than them who isn't is nuts. I get being a homer to your team but to a player? Wtf

Yeah. I've rooted against MJ, Kobe, and Lebron so I'm used to being unhappy about someone else's success
But when I see my fellow haters try to frame every accomplishment as a negative, it makes me embarrassed to be a hater! It's honestly fun to root against a great player, but it's also embarrassing to have horrible basketball takes. Important to find the balance!

[zero rings]

Nope, like pointing out double standards.

It’s sad that you have so much hate. You can’t recognize and congratulate a guy who made history. It’s sad bro. I can’t imagine having this much hate that you can’t appreciate the history and greatness that is right in front of you. It is sad.

Nobody recognized Westbrook making history. They just hated on him. I'm not hating, just pointing things out. You are interpreting that as hating.

People got tired of Westbrook’s triple doubles because he shot the ball terribly and turned it over like crazy.

You’re pretending not to notice the difference, because you’re a Jokic hater.

[cupcakesnake]

Nope, like pointing out double standards.

It’s sad that you have so much hate. You can’t recognize and congratulate a guy who made history. It’s sad bro. I can’t imagine having this much hate that you can’t appreciate the history and greatness that is right in front of you. It is sad.

Nobody recognized Westbrook making history. They just hated on him. I'm not hating, just pointing things out. You are interpreting that as hating.

Russ got a lot of love for his accomplishments. Won and MVP (finished top 5 for 4 straight seasons), made all-star and all-NBA every year of that epic stretch. He also had a wide range of haters. Some people just wanted to push back with context of why his numbers were so ridiculous. Others took it further and were just hatey haters. Russ's decline and later struggles were seen as proof of his lack of viability as a winning basketball player, and the haters never ended their parade.

But anyways, you're just doing the same thing kinda. Complaining about people detracting from greatness while actively detracting from greatness.

[cupcakesnake]

Nope, like pointing out double standards.

It’s sad that you have so much hate. You can’t recognize and congratulate a guy who made history. It’s sad bro. I can’t imagine having this much hate that you can’t appreciate the history and greatness that is right in front of you. It is sad.

Nobody recognized Westbrook making history. They just hated on him. I'm not hating, just pointing things out. You are interpreting that as hating.

Russ got a lot of love for his accomplishments. Won and MVP (finished top 5 for 4 straight seasons), made all-star and all-NBA every year of that epic stretch. He also had a wide range of haters. Some people just wanted to push back with context of why his numbers were so ridiculous. Others took it further and were just hatey haters. Russ's decline and later struggles were seen as proof of his lack of viability as a winning basketball player, and the haters never ended their parade.

But anyways, you're just doing the same thing kinda. Complaining about people detracting from greatness while actively detracting from greatness. You like pointing out double standards while doing a double standard.

[7seventynine9]

Nope, like pointing out double standards.

It’s sad that you have so much hate. You can’t recognize and congratulate a guy who made history. It’s sad bro. I can’t imagine having this much hate that you can’t appreciate the history and greatness that is right in front of you. It is sad.

Nobody recognized Westbrook making history. They just hated on him. I'm not hating, just pointing things out. You are interpreting that as hating.

Westbrook won the MVP. People noticed.

[JM00n69]

Side point, but the same applies to Caitlin Clark. She's a genuinely good rebounder for a guard, plus her teams follow the Russ strategy by boxing out and permitting her to get the uncontested rebound. Thus, she led the WNBA in rebounds for a guard during her rookie year, and was leading the NCAA in rebounds for a guard when at Iowa.

I don't watch the WNBA sorry so not sure if this is a sarcastic response. It is a different league though. Should we compare Wilt to that dude who scored 130 in a pick up game?

The strategy is the same thing and therefore comparable. Prioritizing getting the ball into the hands of your transition playmaker as quickly as possible. If they're a strong rebounder, that's the quickest way to do it!

It shouldn't be overly used as a point for or against Russ, imo. People who obsess over triple doubles, should be aware that Russ probably isn't an organic 10rpg guy. People should also know that Russ is one of the best rebounding guards ever, and the fact that he's such a good transition player means rebounds are extra valuable in his hands.

Most of this holds true for Clark. I think it's fair to compare different leagues when we're talking about something on a strategic level. No one is comparing their achievements or qualitty in this discussion.

I completely agree! And I'm not touting Russ as a top PG btw, I just think some newer fans and maybe some older ones as well are seeing his feat as a fluke which it definitely was not and it needs highlighting.

But if you want to critize him, the high turnover rate, poor defence/gambling for steals and his stubborness to take it on himself to end a play while a poor shooter and finisher unless on a fast break. Plenty of actual reasons there.

[Big J]

It’s sad that you have so much hate. You can’t recognize and congratulate a guy who made history. It’s sad bro. I can’t imagine having this much hate that you can’t appreciate the history and greatness that is right in front of you. It is sad.

Nobody recognized Westbrook making history. They just hated on him. I'm not hating, just pointing things out. You are interpreting that as hating.

Westbrook won the MVP. People noticed.

I'm talking about people on this forum. He got a ton of hate here that Jokic doesn't.