2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread

scrabbarista · Post #1401 » by **scrabbarista** » Sun Jan 8, 2017 8:16 pm

It's true that bbref has WB so low because his team is the seventh seed. It also can't be helping that he takes 6 more shots than Harden to score 3 more points.

Post #1402 » by **Duke4life831** » Sun Jan 8, 2017 9:58 pm

scrabbarista wrote:It's true that bbref has WB so low because his team is the seventh seed. It also can't be helping that he takes 6 more shots than Harden to score 3 more points.

This. I dont think its close, I have Harden easily over Westbrook for the MVP. Before the season no one was saying Harden had the better supporting cast over Westbrook but Houston has a nice cushion as the 3rd seed team while OKC is in 7th place. What does Westbrook do better than Harden instead of grabbing 2 more rebounds a game? Harden is just a more efficient Westbrook and is on a team fighting for a top 2 seed compared to OKC who is battling for the 6th and 7th seed.

DeKobe DeBryant · Post #1403 » by **DeKobe DeBryant** » Sun Jan 8, 2017 10:02 pm

Freighttrain wrote:If you'd swap james with harden which team would benefit the most?
If u'd swap james with westbrook which team would benefit the most?
who would be the most valuable of those 3?

LeBron

DeKobe DeBryant · Post #1404 » by **DeKobe DeBryant** » Sun Jan 8, 2017 10:03 pm

Goodfellaz wrote:Vegas Odds for MVP (as of today):
1. westbrook: 1.83x
2. Harden 2.25x

3. Lebron 9.00x
4. Kawhi 13.00x

I'd say they are more accurate than the columnists writing articles with their biases. When people were debating curry/harden, vegas odds had curry as a huge favourite the entire time (even though people on this board were convinced Harden had a good chance). Same thing with KD when he won, they had him as the favourite throughout the season.

Are they ever wrong? sure. But with hundreds of thousands of dollars being bet on this, I'd rely on their rankings a lot more than the random articles.

FWIW - I have harden as #1 right now, if i was deciding the MVP award.

That LeBron bet looks nice

inquisitive · Post #1405 » by **inquisitive** » Sun Jan 8, 2017 10:07 pm

get a list of the sportswriters who ACTUALLY get to vote for mvp and email, tweet, etc. them to see who they have right now in the lead. anyone know exactly who these guys are?

red96 · Post #1406 » by **red96** » Sun Jan 8, 2017 10:20 pm

Freighttrain wrote:If you'd swap james with harden which team would benefit the most?
If u'd swap james with westbrook which team would benefit the most?
who would be the most valuable of those 3?

That's not how MVP's are crowned. Replace blank player with Jordan in the 80's and 90's. Jordan would probably have over 10 MVP's. Replace blank player with Shaq during his era and so on. Its more about who's having the better year with a great team record? So far Harden's team has out done everyone's expectations(unlike Westbrook, KD, and LBJ's teams), his stats are spectacular, he's doesn't take rest games off like some players, and he's responsible for the largest percentage of his teams points in the league.

KD-plays for a team that won 73, has an 2X MVP, and 2 additional all-stars.
Curry-see KD reasoning.
LBJ-plays with 2 All-stars in a softer conference with 0 threats and he takes game off-days.
Westbrook- team is 7th in the West and 10th overall. He's also less efficient than the other MVP candidates by a considerable margin.
Giannis- team isn't even in the top 10, but currently .500 in the 8th seed in the East, and risks not making the play-offs at all.
What's Harden's biggest con? He's not a good defender? Maybe, but he's also much improved in that area much like his 2014-15 campaign. Right now, how could Harden not be in the lead?

K_chile22 · Post #1407 » by **K_chile22** » Sun Jan 8, 2017 10:22 pm

inquisitive wrote:get a list of the sportswriters who ACTUALLY get to vote for mvp and email, tweet, etc. them to see who they have right now in the lead. anyone know exactly who these guys are?

I think they keep that stuff under wraps and the voters don't even know who they are until last second. Otherwise there would be social media intimidating lol

Triples333 · Post #1408 » by **Triples333** » Sun Jan 8, 2017 10:27 pm

K_chile22 wrote:
inquisitive wrote:get a list of the sportswriters who ACTUALLY get to vote for mvp and email, tweet, etc. them to see who they have right now in the lead. anyone know exactly who these guys are?

I think they keep that stuff under wraps and the voters don't even know who they are until last second. Otherwise there would be social media intimidating lol

I bet it's mostly the same people each year. Could just look at the votes from the past 3 seasons and easily find out, it's public.

therealbig3 · Post #1409 » by **therealbig3** » Sun Jan 8, 2017 10:34 pm

LeBron is still the best player in the game, and the dirty little secret around the league: he really hasn't been that much worse than his peak self, other than coasting a little more for the RS. So you have peak-ish LeBron, leading a team with the 2nd best record in the league?

Yeah, I'm going with the guy in contention for GOAT who's still playing at the top of his game.

ThomYorke · Post #1410 » by **ThomYorke** » Sun Jan 8, 2017 11:37 pm

therealbig3 wrote:LeBron is still the best player in the game, and the dirty little secret around the league: he really hasn't been that much worse than his peak self, other than coasting a little more for the RS. So you have peak-ish LeBron, leading a team with the 2nd best record in the league?

Yeah, I'm going with the guy in contention for GOAT who's still playing at the top of his game.

I don't think many will people will say that Westbrook or Harden is the best player in the world, people were doing that with Curry last year and LeBron quickly put that one to rest.

This is about who has been the best performing player during this regular season, and I think it's difficult to argue that LBJ has played consistently better than either Harden of Russ so far. Come May/June though, 99.99% of people know that is when LeBron rises to the occasion.

Shock Defeat · Post #1411 » by **Shock Defeat** » Mon Jan 9, 2017 1:25 am

If you put LeBron on the Rockets instead of Harden I actually doubt they'd be this good.

enko · Post #1412 » by **enko** » Mon Jan 9, 2017 1:33 am

therealbig3 wrote:LeBron is still the best player in the game, and the dirty little secret around the league: he really hasn't been that much worse than his peak self, other than coasting a little more for the RS. So you have peak-ish LeBron, leading a team with the 2nd best record in the league?

Yeah, I'm going with the guy in contention for GOAT who's still playing at the top of his game.

This season, WB and Harden are better than Lebron. We are talking about this season's MVP and not past accomplishment(else MJ should get the MVP.)

Screwston · Post #1413 » by **Screwston** » Mon Jan 9, 2017 1:38 am

LeBron is the best player in the world, but Harden n WB are having better seasons. That doesn't mean they're better players (they're not). Kinda like when KD won the mvp award, but LeBron was still better

Its a regular season award n everyone knows LeBron is just crusing through it 'till the playoffs.

Tigersrule · Post #1414 » by **Tigersrule** » Mon Jan 9, 2017 1:38 am

BBall Loyalty wrote:If you put LeBron on the Rockets instead of Harden I actually doubt they'd be this good.

Wtf ru smoking lol...He would probably average way better stats than Harden, and have a better record. He would still be surrounded by shooters around him.

K_chile22 · Post #1415 » by **K_chile22** » Mon Jan 9, 2017 1:41 am

Harden with 40-11-10-2-2 with awesome defense down the stretch to complete the comeback win in Toronto to move to 30-9. Had 10 turnovers if you wanna nitpick, but a fantastic game. M. V. P.

Screwston · Post #1416 » by **Screwston** » Mon Jan 9, 2017 1:44 am

K_chile22 wrote:Harden with 40-11-10-2-2 with awesome defense down the stretch to complete the comeback win in Toronto to move to 30-9. Had 10 turnovers if you wanna nitpick, but a fantastic game. M. V. P.

Played clutch D, n made that tough 3 to seal the game

Had 7 turnovers in the first half, so he didn't make many mistakes in winning time

red96 · Post #1417 » by **red96** » Mon Jan 9, 2017 1:50 am

therealbig3 wrote:LeBron is still the best player in the game, and the dirty little secret around the league: he really hasn't been that much worse than his peak self, other than coasting a little more for the RS. So you have peak-ish LeBron, leading a team with the 2nd best record in the league?

Yeah, I'm going with the guy in contention for GOAT who's still playing at the top of his game.

The Cavs haven't had the 2nd best record in the league for a little while now. San Antonio has it at 30-7 .811. Cleveland is 27-8 .771 with the Rockets on their heels at 30-9 .769.

Triples333 · Post #1418 » by **Triples333** » Mon Jan 9, 2017 1:52 am

Tigersrule wrote:
BBall Loyalty wrote:If you put LeBron on the Rockets instead of Harden I actually doubt they'd be this good.

Wtf ru smoking lol...He would probably average way better stats than Harden, and have a better record. He would still be surrounded by shooters around him.

100% would not average better stats and I am not sure about the record either. Highly doubt it in fact. At 27 sure, not at 32.

therealbig3 · Post #1419 » by **therealbig3** » Mon Jan 9, 2017 2:01 am

That's the thing though, even with LeBron on cruise control...Harden's stats aren't really that much better than LeBron's. Westbrook has an advantage in terms of numbers, but his team is a lot worse.

And if we go by +/-, LeBron beats both of them, which is not supposed to be the case, since Harden/Westbrook are 1 man shows and LeBron is on a good team...but that good team seems to depend more on LeBron than Harden's and Westbrook's teams depend on them.

On/Off:

James: +18.2

Westbrook: +17.7
Harden: +8.2

RPM:

James: +7.15

Westbrook: +6.18
Harden: +6.15

PER:

James: 26.7

Westbrook: 30.4
Harden: 27.6

James and Harden have essentially identical PERs, and James trumps him soundly in terms of +/-, and his team has performed at a comparable level.

If it's just about numbers, Westbrook should win hands down.

But if it's about the best combination of production, impact, and team success (which it traditionally is), then LeBron, not Harden, is the best candidate.

Yes, LeBron is coasting more, but despite that, if he's STILL having the most impact out of anyone on any of the contenders, then he should still be in the lead for MVP. Not his fault that his 90% is still better than everyone else's 100%...he shouldn't be punished for being too good.

Tigersrule · Post #1420 » by **Tigersrule** » Mon Jan 9, 2017 2:03 am

Triples333 wrote:
Tigersrule wrote:
BBall Loyalty wrote:If you put LeBron on the Rockets instead of Harden I actually doubt they'd be this good.

Wtf ru smoking lol...He would probably average way better stats than Harden, and have a better record. He would still be surrounded by shooters around him.

100% would not average better stats and I am not sure about the record either. Highly doubt it in fact. At 27 sure, not at 32.

James playing at like 60% rn and his stats are not that much off from Hardens lol..I think hes even shooting better 3pt% than him. On top of that hes a WAY better defender. All that talk about "Lebron is declining" is bs ..hes having one of his best statistical seasons at this age right now and hes on cruise control.