76ers back to fining Ben Simmons

[Nuntius]

Question to you and anyone who feels Morey should be fired: do you think any of the packages he could've gotten would improved the team enough to be a legitimate contender? Because if not, then he'd still be wasting Embiid's prime. I just don't see Brogdon or McCollum + picks elevating the sixers to contender status. Morey has no obligation to trade Simmons if it wont improve the team.

As far as the implications of this situation, I think it will be one of the major catalysts towards changes to the next CBA.

Yes, the Sixers would be legitimate contenders if they had completed some of the deals that were rumored this summer. The fact is that Embiid and Simmons never fit well together. Simmons' utter lack of range doesn't fit well with a Center like Embiid. McCollum may not be as good of an overall player as Simmons is but his fit with Embiid is 10 times better and that's what should matter here.

Embiid is a top 10 (if not top 5) player. He is the one that the Sixers should be building around. What the Sixers lacked last year in their loss to the Hawks was shot creation. The Hawks had a plethora of players who could create their own shot. They had Trae, their star, but they also had players like Bogdanović, Gallo and Huerter who could create their own when the situation called for it. Heck, Huerter's 27 kinda won them that game 7.

The Sixers had Embiid, their star, and then Tobias and Seth Curry. Those were the 3 guys who took the majority of the shots. Ben Simmons attempted less shots (45) than Furkan Korkmaz (48) despite the fact that he played 242 minutes to Kormaz's 139. Heck, Lou Williams, who only played 98 minutes for the Hawks, attempted 41 shots, only 4 shots less than Simmons did. Again, Simmons played 242 minutes. And, yes, shot creation isn't all about shooting on your own. You can create for others and Simmons did do that (he had 60 assists). But when the defense knows that you aren't going to shoot the ball and that your intend is to pass then they are free to play for that pass and snuff out passing lanes. That kind of lack of scoring threat destroys a ball-handler's gravity. Ben is basically a reverse Steph. Steph's gravity creates passing lanes out of nowhere whereas Ben's utter lack of gravity snuffs out passing lanes that normally would be there.

There's no doubt in my mind that the Sixers would have made the ECF last year if they had someone like McCollum (CJ is an example here, I'm only using him because he was one of the rumored deals and you mentioned him as well) instead of Simmons.

[Nuntius]

I think to be fully honest, there's a 25% chance at the very least that Harden is on the market this off season for whatever it's worth. And if Irving is back to playing next year. Harden for Simmons + actually puts the nets in a great spot to win now.

We've seen Leonard move, Harden move, PG move all in a pretty short time. Oh AD moved as well. That's a lot of people in the past few years to use a number as low as 10%. History says there's an above 50% chance here.

Yeah, not seeing any of it, to be honest. The players you mentioned have all gotten their wishes. PG and Kawhi went to play in LA, like they wanted. Kyrie and KD got to team up, like they wanted.

Could Harden bail? It's possible, I guess, but why would he leave KD to go play in Philly?

The easy answer is Daryl Morey. They have a pretty good relationship. The other is Embiid - Harden has been a fan ever since that first nationally-televised game in Embiid's rookie season (this was the day after Embiid was snubbed for the All-Star Game):

"He's a problem," Harden said. "Big, athletic, can shoot the 3. He has an extremely bright future as you can see."

"Offensively, he's just skilled, man," Harden said in his postgame interview on ESPN. "He's probably the most skilled big man we have in this league, man. Shooting the 3 at a high level, 7-2, finishing about the basket, making plays for his teammates. And then defensively, he blocked my shot. He's everywhere, man. He has a bright future and Philly has got something special here."

Harden is smart enough to know how he and Embiid can unlock each other's games - even more than Harden can with KD.

That's a pretty good answer so fair enough. I still don't consider it particularly likely since Brooklyn seems like the vastly better situation for Harden right now but things could always change, I guess.

[Nuntius]

People keep saying “wasting a year of embiid prime”

You guys know how many top 10 players prime are wasted every year

Lillard for one
Curry just wasted 2 years of his prime and golden state didn’t pannic
Jokic prime being wasted this year as well

The sixers simply aren’t gonna to win a title without a difference maker.

On Lillard: The Blazers have tried hard to build a good team around Lillard. They haven't been able to win a title, no, but they have reached the Conference Finals, at least. Injuries have **** them over more than once and they have also been unlucky enough to face the Warriors dynasty (3 series loss to them, including their Conference Finals loss).

On Steph: Yeah, Klay's injury cost him a couple of years but he's 100% fine with it, I think. He has won 3 titles and he's gunning for a 4th title now. I don't think he has any regrets about sticking with GSW.

On Jokić: Jokić is just entering his prime and, unlike Embiid, he doesn't have a history of injury problems. So, chances are that his prime lasts longer than Embiid's. Yes, Murray's injury does mean that this season is wasted but, once again, the Nuggets have been able to make the Conference Finals at least once with Jokić. The Sixers, on the other hand, have been unable to do so.

I also think that it's important to note that in all 3 of these cases, we're talking about injuries sidetracking teams and causing their stars to waste years of their prime. Injuries suck ass and it would be amazing if players didn't get injured as often as they do but, sadly, they do happen and it's out of anyone's control. You can't really control who gets injured and when. Injuries just throw a wrench in your plans and **** everything up for you and your team.

This Simmons situation, on the other hand, is definitely not out of anyone's control. Morey has had the option to trade him ever since the summer and he's simply refusing to do so. Morey could get Embiid help now (unlike the 3 teams mentioned above who couldn't wave a magic wand and have their players miraculously recover from their injuries within a day) but he's refusing to do so.

So, your argument is fallacious in my eyes. You really cannot compare injuries to a GM refusing to trade a player out of spite/pride.

[kuclas]

People keep saying “wasting a year of embiid prime”

You guys know how many top 10 players prime are wasted every year

Lillard for one
Curry just wasted 2 years of his prime and golden state didn’t pannic
Jokic prime being wasted this year as well

The sixers simply aren’t gonna to win a title without a difference maker.

On Lillard: The Blazers have tried hard to build a good team around Lillard. They haven't been able to win a title, no, but they have reached the Conference Finals, at least. Injuries have **** them over more than once and they have also been unlucky enough to face the Warriors dynasty (3 series loss to them, including their Conference Finals loss).

On Steph: Yeah, Klay's injury cost him a couple of years but he's 100% fine with it, I think. He has won 3 titles and he's gunning for a 4th title now. I don't think he has any regrets about sticking with GSW.

On Jokić: Jokić is just entering his prime and, unlike Embiid, he doesn't have a history of injury problems. So, chances are that his prime lasts longer than Embiid's. Yes, Murray's injury does mean that this season is wasted but, once again, the Nuggets have been able to make the Conference Finals at least once with Jokić. The Sixers, on the other hand, have been unable to do so.

I also think that it's important to note that in all 3 of these cases, we're talking about injuries sidetracking teams and causing their stars to waste years of their prime. Injuries suck ass and it would be amazing if players didn't get injured as often as they do but, sadly, they do happen and it's out of anyone's control. You can't really control who gets injured and when. Injuries just throw a wrench in your plans and **** everything up for you and your team.

This Simmons situation, on the other hand, is definitely not out of anyone's control. Morey has had the option to trade him ever since the summer and he's simply refusing to do so. Morey could get Embiid help now (unlike the 3 teams mentioned above who couldn't wave a magic wand and have their players miraculously recover from their injuries within a day) but he's refusing to do so.

So, your argument is fallacious in my eyes. You really cannot compare injuries to a GM refusing to trade a player out of spite/pride.

The trade suggested. Cj at 3/90
Minnesota junk
San Antonio Murray just a smaller cheaper version of Simmons plus maybe 1-2 picks (Morey wanted 4 picks). San Antonio probably countered with 1-2 protected picks (who knows I’m just guessing)
Sacramento barnes/hield plus maybe 1-2 picks

Doesn’t move the needle. Sixers would be still limited to 2nd round exit.

Sixers aren’t getting better with these players. Sure. These players may strengthen the team as oppose to no Simmons

But the end result is the same. CJ getting hunted down on defense in the playoffs and being a liability. It happens all the time wirh the sixers weakest defenders getting hunted (from jj reddick and Seth curry) so cJ maybe a good iso scorer down the stretch for embiid who’s tiring but it may not matter if sixers aren’t in striking range in the last 2 Minutes of the game.

Fox in theory should work. But Sacramento doesn’t want to give him up.

So what choice does Morey have?

The trade options aren’t out there.

If ur were. Trade would have been done.

Simmons is being unprofessional by not showing up. He’s for a long term contract. Honor it. Pretty simple.

[John Murdoch]

His rookie yr was amazing

[Nuntius]

People keep saying “wasting a year of embiid prime”

You guys know how many top 10 players prime are wasted every year

Lillard for one
Curry just wasted 2 years of his prime and golden state didn’t pannic
Jokic prime being wasted this year as well

The sixers simply aren’t gonna to win a title without a difference maker.

On Lillard: The Blazers have tried hard to build a good team around Lillard. They haven't been able to win a title, no, but they have reached the Conference Finals, at least. Injuries have **** them over more than once and they have also been unlucky enough to face the Warriors dynasty (3 series loss to them, including their Conference Finals loss).

On Steph: Yeah, Klay's injury cost him a couple of years but he's 100% fine with it, I think. He has won 3 titles and he's gunning for a 4th title now. I don't think he has any regrets about sticking with GSW.

On Jokić: Jokić is just entering his prime and, unlike Embiid, he doesn't have a history of injury problems. So, chances are that his prime lasts longer than Embiid's. Yes, Murray's injury does mean that this season is wasted but, once again, the Nuggets have been able to make the Conference Finals at least once with Jokić. The Sixers, on the other hand, have been unable to do so.

I also think that it's important to note that in all 3 of these cases, we're talking about injuries sidetracking teams and causing their stars to waste years of their prime. Injuries suck ass and it would be amazing if players didn't get injured as often as they do but, sadly, they do happen and it's out of anyone's control. You can't really control who gets injured and when. Injuries just throw a wrench in your plans and **** everything up for you and your team.

This Simmons situation, on the other hand, is definitely not out of anyone's control. Morey has had the option to trade him ever since the summer and he's simply refusing to do so. Morey could get Embiid help now (unlike the 3 teams mentioned above who couldn't wave a magic wand and have their players miraculously recover from their injuries within a day) but he's refusing to do so.

So, your argument is fallacious in my eyes. You really cannot compare injuries to a GM refusing to trade a player out of spite/pride.

The trade suggested. Cj at 3/90
Minnesota junk
San Antonio Murray just a smaller cheaper version of Simmons plus maybe 1-2 picks (Morey wanted 4 picks). San Antonio probably countered with 1-2 protected picks (who knows I’m just guessing)
Sacramento barnes/hield plus maybe 1-2 picks

Doesn’t move the needle. Sixers would be still limited to 2nd round exit.

Sixers aren’t getting better with these players. Sure. These players may strengthen the team as oppose to no Simmons

But the end result is the same. CJ getting hunted down on defense in the playoffs and being a liability. It happens all the time wirh the sixers weakest defenders getting hunted (from jj reddick and Seth curry) so cJ maybe a good iso scorer down the stretch for embiid who’s tiring but it may not matter if sixers aren’t in striking range in the last 2 Minutes of the game.

Fox in theory should work. But Sacramento doesn’t want to give him up.

So what choice does Morey have?

The trade options aren’t out there.

If ur were. Trade would have been done.

Simmons is being unprofessional by not showing up. He’s for a long term contract. Honor it. Pretty simple.

Any of these trades would give the Sixers a chance at a title. They don't have that chance right now. You can call Simmons unprofessional all you want but that doesn't change the fact that Morey is **** over your team by refusing to trade Simmons out of spite/pride.

[dhsilv2]

On Lillard: The Blazers have tried hard to build a good team around Lillard. They haven't been able to win a title, no, but they have reached the Conference Finals, at least. Injuries have **** them over more than once and they have also been unlucky enough to face the Warriors dynasty (3 series loss to them, including their Conference Finals loss).

On Steph: Yeah, Klay's injury cost him a couple of years but he's 100% fine with it, I think. He has won 3 titles and he's gunning for a 4th title now. I don't think he has any regrets about sticking with GSW.

On Jokić: Jokić is just entering his prime and, unlike Embiid, he doesn't have a history of injury problems. So, chances are that his prime lasts longer than Embiid's. Yes, Murray's injury does mean that this season is wasted but, once again, the Nuggets have been able to make the Conference Finals at least once with Jokić. The Sixers, on the other hand, have been unable to do so.

I also think that it's important to note that in all 3 of these cases, we're talking about injuries sidetracking teams and causing their stars to waste years of their prime. Injuries suck ass and it would be amazing if players didn't get injured as often as they do but, sadly, they do happen and it's out of anyone's control. You can't really control who gets injured and when. Injuries just throw a wrench in your plans and **** everything up for you and your team.

This Simmons situation, on the other hand, is definitely not out of anyone's control. Morey has had the option to trade him ever since the summer and he's simply refusing to do so. Morey could get Embiid help now (unlike the 3 teams mentioned above who couldn't wave a magic wand and have their players miraculously recover from their injuries within a day) but he's refusing to do so.

So, your argument is fallacious in my eyes. You really cannot compare injuries to a GM refusing to trade a player out of spite/pride.

The trade suggested. Cj at 3/90
Minnesota junk
San Antonio Murray just a smaller cheaper version of Simmons plus maybe 1-2 picks (Morey wanted 4 picks). San Antonio probably countered with 1-2 protected picks (who knows I’m just guessing)
Sacramento barnes/hield plus maybe 1-2 picks

Doesn’t move the needle. Sixers would be still limited to 2nd round exit.

Sixers aren’t getting better with these players. Sure. These players may strengthen the team as oppose to no Simmons

But the end result is the same. CJ getting hunted down on defense in the playoffs and being a liability. It happens all the time wirh the sixers weakest defenders getting hunted (from jj reddick and Seth curry) so cJ maybe a good iso scorer down the stretch for embiid who’s tiring but it may not matter if sixers aren’t in striking range in the last 2 Minutes of the game.

Fox in theory should work. But Sacramento doesn’t want to give him up.

So what choice does Morey have?

The trade options aren’t out there.

If ur were. Trade would have been done.

Simmons is being unprofessional by not showing up. He’s for a long term contract. Honor it. Pretty simple.

Any of these trades would give the Sixers a chance at a title. They don't have that chance right now. You can call Simmons unprofessional all you want but that doesn't change the fact that Morey is **** over your team by refusing to trade Simmons out of spite/pride.

Where is this weird spite and pride stuff coming from? If he'd even considered a single trade we've heard, the owners would have fired him and rejected it. From day one everyone agreed this could be a 2 year process to move Simmons and there wasn't anyway the 76ers could avoid that.

You can't start claiming pride and ego until there's an actual player available for Simmons. This summer there was nothing. Which the meant there could be no trade PERIOD until December 15th, we're 10 days past that now. He's maybe had 20 days to move simmons in all of this. Maybe... And NOBODY is currently available.

Imagine you're trying to in a normal job hire someone at simmon's relative level. That hiring could take upwards of 2 years as well. And you might hire the wrong person and have to fire them and start over. This happens for companies ALL the freaking time! This is even a smaller talent pool and you can't just over pay.

And no....Simmons value doesn't go freaking down because he isn't playing. That has never happened to any other player in NBA history.

[KnicksGadfly]

The trade suggested. Cj at 3/90
Minnesota junk
San Antonio Murray just a smaller cheaper version of Simmons plus maybe 1-2 picks (Morey wanted 4 picks). San Antonio probably countered with 1-2 protected picks (who knows I’m just guessing)
Sacramento barnes/hield plus maybe 1-2 picks

Doesn’t move the needle. Sixers would be still limited to 2nd round exit.

Sixers aren’t getting better with these players. Sure. These players may strengthen the team as oppose to no Simmons

But the end result is the same. CJ getting hunted down on defense in the playoffs and being a liability. It happens all the time wirh the sixers weakest defenders getting hunted (from jj reddick and Seth curry) so cJ maybe a good iso scorer down the stretch for embiid who’s tiring but it may not matter if sixers aren’t in striking range in the last 2 Minutes of the game.

Fox in theory should work. But Sacramento doesn’t want to give him up.

So what choice does Morey have?

The trade options aren’t out there.

If ur were. Trade would have been done.

Simmons is being unprofessional by not showing up. He’s for a long term contract. Honor it. Pretty simple.

Any of these trades would give the Sixers a chance at a title. They don't have that chance right now. You can call Simmons unprofessional all you want but that doesn't change the fact that Morey is **** over your team by refusing to trade Simmons out of spite/pride.

Where is this weird spite and pride stuff coming from? If he'd even considered a single trade we've heard, the owners would have fired him and rejected it. From day one everyone agreed this could be a 2 year process to move Simmons and there wasn't anyway the 76ers could avoid that.

You can't start claiming pride and ego until there's an actual player available for Simmons. This summer there was nothing. Which the meant there could be no trade PERIOD until December 15th, we're 10 days past that now. He's maybe had 20 days to move simmons in all of this. Maybe... And NOBODY is currently available.

Imagine you're trying to in a normal job hire someone at simmon's relative level. That hiring could take upwards of 2 years as well. And you might hire the wrong person and have to fire them and start over. This happens for companies ALL the freaking time! This is even a smaller talent pool and you can't just over pay.

And no....Simmons value doesn't go freaking down because he isn't playing. That has never happened to any other player in NBA history.

Simmons value can’t go down cause it was never as high as Morey wanted it in the first place

[kuclas]

Any of these trades would give the Sixers a chance at a title. They don't have that chance right now. You can call Simmons unprofessional all you want but that doesn't change the fact that Morey is **** over your team by refusing to trade Simmons out of spite/pride.

Where is this weird spite and pride stuff coming from? If he'd even considered a single trade we've heard, the owners would have fired him and rejected it. From day one everyone agreed this could be a 2 year process to move Simmons and there wasn't anyway the 76ers could avoid that.

You can't start claiming pride and ego until there's an actual player available for Simmons. This summer there was nothing. Which the meant there could be no trade PERIOD until December 15th, we're 10 days past that now. He's maybe had 20 days to move simmons in all of this. Maybe... And NOBODY is currently available.

Imagine you're trying to in a normal job hire someone at simmon's relative level. That hiring could take upwards of 2 years as well. And you might hire the wrong person and have to fire them and start over. This happens for companies ALL the freaking time! This is even a smaller talent pool and you can't just over pay.

And no....Simmons value doesn't go freaking down because he isn't playing. That has never happened to any other player in NBA history.

Simmons value can’t go down cause it was never as high as Morey wanted it in the first place

Well Simmons value is higher than CJ considering Portland would do it in a heartbeat. But lower than lillard.

The problem is in any trade. A team usually is rebuilding and another team trying to improve itself.

Portland doesn’t want to rebuild. Sixers don’t want to rebuild. So either team adding further “assets/draft capital” isn’t incentive enough.

The other issue is Simmons long term contract. This isn’t like a K Leonard situation where San Antonio has to unload him. If Simmons had 1 year left he be long gone. If Leonard had 4 years left. He wouldn’t have been traded for derozan/poetl

So Simmons team can’t force a trade especially not even showing up and refusing to play

We are in uncharted territory here never happen before a player of Simmons age , super max contract length and current team objects (not tanking). Never in the history of the modern nba contract (last 20-25 season) has a player acted like Simmons on a team coming off a regular season success. Never.

So to just say take what u can for Simmons and it will help with a title. It doesn’t happen that way. What the difference between adding other players who may help sixers win a few extra games in regular season vs no Simmons at all? Nothing.

[dhsilv2]

Any of these trades would give the Sixers a chance at a title. They don't have that chance right now. You can call Simmons unprofessional all you want but that doesn't change the fact that Morey is **** over your team by refusing to trade Simmons out of spite/pride.

Where is this weird spite and pride stuff coming from? If he'd even considered a single trade we've heard, the owners would have fired him and rejected it. From day one everyone agreed this could be a 2 year process to move Simmons and there wasn't anyway the 76ers could avoid that.

You can't start claiming pride and ego until there's an actual player available for Simmons. This summer there was nothing. Which the meant there could be no trade PERIOD until December 15th, we're 10 days past that now. He's maybe had 20 days to move simmons in all of this. Maybe... And NOBODY is currently available.

Imagine you're trying to in a normal job hire someone at simmon's relative level. That hiring could take upwards of 2 years as well. And you might hire the wrong person and have to fire them and start over. This happens for companies ALL the freaking time! This is even a smaller talent pool and you can't just over pay.

And no....Simmons value doesn't go freaking down because he isn't playing. That has never happened to any other player in NBA history.

Simmons value can’t go down cause it was never as high as Morey wanted it in the first place

This is the most valuable contract we've ever seen in this scenario. I don't think you understand player value.

[Pointgod]

Question to you and anyone who feels Morey should be fired: do you think any of the packages he could've gotten would improved the team enough to be a legitimate contender? Because if not, then he'd still be wasting Embiid's prime. I just don't see Brogdon or McCollum + picks elevating the sixers to contender status. Morey has no obligation to trade Simmons if it wont improve the team.

As far as the implications of this situation, I think it will be one of the major catalysts towards changes to the next CBA.

Yes, the Sixers would be legitimate contenders if they had completed some of the deals that were rumored this summer. The fact is that Embiid and Simmons never fit well together. Simmons' utter lack of range doesn't fit well with a Center like Embiid. McCollum may not be as good of an overall player as Simmons is but his fit with Embiid is 10 times better and that's what should matter here.

Embiid is a top 10 (if not top 5) player. He is the one that the Sixers should be building around. What the Sixers lacked last year in their loss to the Hawks was shot creation. The Hawks had a plethora of players who could create their own shot. They had Trae, their star, but they also had players like Bogdanović, Gallo and Huerter who could create their own when the situation called for it. Heck, Huerter's 27 kinda won them that game 7.

The Sixers had Embiid, their star, and then Tobias and Seth Curry. Those were the 3 guys who took the majority of the shots. Ben Simmons attempted less shots (45) than Furkan Korkmaz (48) despite the fact that he played 242 minutes to Kormaz's 139. Heck, Lou Williams, who only played 98 minutes for the Hawks, attempted 41 shots, only 4 shots less than Simmons did. Again, Simmons played 242 minutes. And, yes, shot creation isn't all about shooting on your own. You can create for others and Simmons did do that (he had 60 assists). But when the defense knows that you aren't going to shoot the ball and that your intend is to pass then they are free to play for that pass and snuff out passing lanes. That kind of lack of scoring threat destroys a ball-handler's gravity. Ben is basically a reverse Steph. Steph's gravity creates passing lanes out of nowhere whereas Ben's utter lack of gravity snuffs out passing lanes that normally would be there.

There's no doubt in my mind that the Sixers would have made the ECF last year if they had someone like McCollum (CJ is an example here, I'm only using him because he was one of the rumored deals and you mentioned him as well) instead of Simmons.

To me it boils down to the simple fact that the 76ers are better off with any of the rumoured players (Mcollum, Brogdan, Siakim, Fox) than having 35 million dollars in payroll sitting not contributing or playing at all. It’s not like the players Simmons is rumoured for are absolute salary dump players. All of these guys are above average players and in the case of a guy like Siakim a former allstar. The most short sighted part of this from all of the Morey supporters is the absolute treasure trove of picks that the 76ers would get back.

There’s no doubt that had the 76ers traded Simmons around the draft they be looking at a minimum of Mcollum, 2 picks and 2 pick swaps for example. This was Simmons at his peak value despite requesting a trade. You take those picks, plus young players like Maxey and Thybulle and a salary like Harris or McCollum and that’s would you use to get your superstar player. That’s going to put you over the top and less additional trade capital is required than trying to convince a rebuilding team to take on Simmons when his trade value is sinking like a rock.

On one hand Sixers fans claim Morey is some super genius and the best GM in the league, but he’s not smart enough to get maximum value for Simmons when he’s at his highest value. And you don’t have to waste a season to get here. This is why is laughable when anyone claims this isn’t Morey’s ego throwing away a season.

[kuclas]

Question to you and anyone who feels Morey should be fired: do you think any of the packages he could've gotten would improved the team enough to be a legitimate contender? Because if not, then he'd still be wasting Embiid's prime. I just don't see Brogdon or McCollum + picks elevating the sixers to contender status. Morey has no obligation to trade Simmons if it wont improve the team.

As far as the implications of this situation, I think it will be one of the major catalysts towards changes to the next CBA.

Yes, the Sixers would be legitimate contenders if they had completed some of the deals that were rumored this summer. The fact is that Embiid and Simmons never fit well together. Simmons' utter lack of range doesn't fit well with a Center like Embiid. McCollum may not be as good of an overall player as Simmons is but his fit with Embiid is 10 times better and that's what should matter here.

Embiid is a top 10 (if not top 5) player. He is the one that the Sixers should be building around. What the Sixers lacked last year in their loss to the Hawks was shot creation. The Hawks had a plethora of players who could create their own shot. They had Trae, their star, but they also had players like Bogdanović, Gallo and Huerter who could create their own when the situation called for it. Heck, Huerter's 27 kinda won them that game 7.

The Sixers had Embiid, their star, and then Tobias and Seth Curry. Those were the 3 guys who took the majority of the shots. Ben Simmons attempted less shots (45) than Furkan Korkmaz (48) despite the fact that he played 242 minutes to Kormaz's 139. Heck, Lou Williams, who only played 98 minutes for the Hawks, attempted 41 shots, only 4 shots less than Simmons did. Again, Simmons played 242 minutes. And, yes, shot creation isn't all about shooting on your own. You can create for others and Simmons did do that (he had 60 assists). But when the defense knows that you aren't going to shoot the ball and that your intend is to pass then they are free to play for that pass and snuff out passing lanes. That kind of lack of scoring threat destroys a ball-handler's gravity. Ben is basically a reverse Steph. Steph's gravity creates passing lanes out of nowhere whereas Ben's utter lack of gravity snuffs out passing lanes that normally would be there.

There's no doubt in my mind that the Sixers would have made the ECF last year if they had someone like McCollum (CJ is an example here, I'm only using him because he was one of the rumored deals and you mentioned him as well) instead of Simmons.

To me it boils down to the simple fact that the 76ers are better off with any of the rumoured players (Mcollum, Brogdan, Siakim, Fox) than having 35 million dollars in payroll sitting not contributing or playing at all. It’s not like the players Simmons is rumoured for are absolute salary dump players. All of these guys are above average players and in the case of a guy like Siakim a former allstar. The most short sighted part of this from all of the Morey supporters is the absolute treasure trove of picks that the 76ers would get back.

There’s no doubt that had the 76ers traded Simmons around the draft they be looking at a minimum of Mcollum, 2 picks and 2 pick swaps for example. This was Simmons at his peak value despite requesting a trade. You take those picks, plus young players like Maxey and Thybulle and a salary like Harris or McCollum and that’s would you use to get your superstar player. That’s going to put you over the top and less additional trade capital is required than trying to convince a rebuilding team to take on Simmons when his trade value is sinking like a rock.

On one hand Sixers fans claim Morey is some super genius and the best GM in the league, but he’s not smart enough to get maximum value for Simmons when he’s at his highest value. And you don’t have to waste a season to get here. This is why is laughable when anyone claims this isn’t Morey’s ego throwing away a season.

Who knows what Portland was offering. Teams have so many pick protections these days. And if Portland offered an unprotected 2022 pick plus a heavily protected 2024 (or whatever year is next). Those picks mean nothing for Simmons if CJ is the core playing coming in. Cause Portland is picking 20 or later in 2022 with Simmons.

Portland has one year they made the wcf and most other years were first round exits. So lillard and cj aren’t taking them far.

The real problem with a cj trade is sixers still lack a point guard. You can see it this season. Maxey is not a point guard. And neither is CJ.

[Nuntius]

Where is this weird spite and pride stuff coming from? If he'd even considered a single trade we've heard, the owners would have fired him and rejected it. From day one everyone agreed this could be a 2 year process to move Simmons and there wasn't anyway the 76ers could avoid that.

You can't start claiming pride and ego until there's an actual player available for Simmons. This summer there was nothing. Which the meant there could be no trade PERIOD until December 15th, we're 10 days past that now. He's maybe had 20 days to move simmons in all of this. Maybe... And NOBODY is currently available.

Imagine you're trying to in a normal job hire someone at simmon's relative level. That hiring could take upwards of 2 years as well. And you might hire the wrong person and have to fire them and start over. This happens for companies ALL the freaking time! This is even a smaller talent pool and you can't just over pay.

And no....Simmons value doesn't go freaking down because he isn't playing. That has never happened to any other player in NBA history.

The spite and pride stuff is coming from exactly the same place as your "the owners would have fired him if he took any of these deals". They are simply our opinions on it.

I see a GM who is not willing to make a trade unless he rips another team off. I see a GM who is desperate to uphold his reputation as someone who always win trades and is therefore reluctant to make a fair trade who would actually help his team. I saw that same thing with Danny Ainge. GMs like that do not negotiate in good faith with other GMs which is why other GMs eventually shut those GMs out and do not trade with them. This was Ainge's undoing and it will be Morey's undoing as well if he keeps this up.

That's my opinion on matter, at least. You are free to disagree and hold your own opinion.

[bebopdeluxe]

The one player that has been rumored that would provide the Sixers somebody that fills many of the holes that Simmons has left (PG, can defend multiple positions, can fill up a stat sheet) is Dejounte Murray. It would also seem to me that from SAS' perspective, they have both the rationale for being open to Simmons (San Antonio is a tough place to attract high-end FA's) as well as the infrastructure (Pop...Chip Engelland to rebuild Simmons' shot) that could potentially unlock Simmons' offense.

If I were a betting man, I think that - even with the material improvement in Murray's play - that deal is there for Morey. Thad would probably have to be in the deal to make the numbers work. The two remaining issues, then, are 1) is there another player that Morey wants in tthe deal that SAS is not willing to add (Vassell or White?), and 2) is Morey still thinking that somebody like Beal becomes available at the deadline (which is not particularly far-fetched, given the Wizards' play of late).

Personally, if we could get Murray/Thad/Vassell, I would be very open to that deal...and I would worry that if Morey waits too long to hit that bid, Murray might just play his way off the table (if he hasn't already).

[kuclas]

The one player that has been rumored that would provide the Sixers somebody that fills many of the holes that Simmons has left (PG, can defend multiple positions, can fill up a stat sheet) is Dejounte Murray. It would also seem to me that from SAS' perspective, they have both the rationale for being open to Simmons (San Antonio is a tough place to attract high-end FA's) as well as the infrastructure (Pop...Chip Engelland to rebuild Simmons' shot) that could potentially unlock Simmons' offense.

If I were a betting man, I think that - even with the material improvement in Murray's play - that deal is there for Morey. Thad would probably have to be in the deal to make the numbers work. The two remaining issues, then, are 1) is there another player that Morey wants in tthe deal that SAS is not willing to add (Vassell or White?), and 2) is Morey still thinking that somebody like Beal becomes available at the deadline (which is not particularly far-fetched, given the Wizards' play of late).

Personally, if we could get Murray/Thad/Vassell, I would be very open to that deal...and I would worry that if Morey waits too long to hit that bid, Murray might just play his way off the table (if he hasn't already).

Murray is pretty much putting up empty stats. Not efficient. He’s never been a good shooter.

Yes. point guard very mobile defensively. But it’s a clear downgrade from Simmons.

If you put Maxey on spurs with 17-18 shots a game. He been averaging 23/6/4 and people would he be in aww at a second year Maxey. But guess what. Spurs are losing. And sixers were losing with Maxey running wild with no embiid

[John Murdoch]

The one player that has been rumored that would provide the Sixers somebody that fills many of the holes that Simmons has left (PG, can defend multiple positions, can fill up a stat sheet) is Dejounte Murray. It would also seem to me that from SAS' perspective, they have both the rationale for being open to Simmons (San Antonio is a tough place to attract high-end FA's) as well as the infrastructure (Pop...Chip Engelland to rebuild Simmons' shot) that could potentially unlock Simmons' offense.

If I were a betting man, I think that - even with the material improvement in Murray's play - that deal is there for Morey. Thad would probably have to be in the deal to make the numbers work. The two remaining issues, then, are 1) is there another player that Morey wants in tthe deal that SAS is not willing to add (Vassell or White?), and 2) is Morey still thinking that somebody like Beal becomes available at the deadline (which is not particularly far-fetched, given the Wizards' play of late).

Personally, if we could get Murray/Thad/Vassell, I would be very open to that deal...and I would worry that if Morey waits too long to hit that bid, Murray might just play his way off the table (if he hasn't already).

Pop already dealt with a guy demanding out..hes not going to reward that . Also dejaunte is better at this point

[bebopdeluxe]

So...the two responses that I got from my post above are 1) Murray is putting up empty stats and is a clear downgrade from Simmons, and 2) Murray is "better at this point" than Simmons.

Sweet.

And people wonder why deals that they think should be done don't get done. All of the arm-chair GM's who OBLITERATE Morey because HE WON'T JUST TRADE SIMMONS ALREADY, but when a representative idea is thrown out (Murray), one poster says that Murray is a clear downgrade from SImmons, while the other says that, at this point, Murray is a better player.

But...wait? I THOUGH IT WAS SO F'K'N CLEAR CUT THAT MOREY IS AN IDIOT FOR NOT MAKING A DEAL?

(bebop shakes his head and mutters an expletive-laden rant at his keyboard)

[kuclas]

So...the two responses that I got from my post above are 1) Murray is putting up empty stats and is a clear downgrade from Simmons, and 2) Murray is "better at this point" than Simmons.

Sweet.

And people wonder why deals that they think should be done don't get done. All of the arm-chair GM's who OBLITERATE Morey because HE WON'T JUST TRADE SIMMONS ALREADY, but when a representative idea is thrown out (Murray), one poster says that Murray is a clear downgrade from SImmons, while the other says that, at this point, Murray is a better player.

But...wait? I THOUGH IT WAS SO F'K'N CLEAR CUT THAT MOREY IS AN IDIOT FOR NOT MAKING A DEAL?

(bebop shakes his head and mutters an expletive-laden rant at his keyboard)

Morey did entertain the offer. Murray plus picks for Simmons. The issue is Morey was demanding 4 unprotected picks from spurs. And pop probably tried to counter with 1 unprotected pick and a heavily protected pick in the future plus salary filler. (My best guess) reading the rumors.

There is no denying Simmons/Murray has been discussed in a trade over the summer. The issue is how much Murray plus for Simmons.

Murray is basically a little better overall player(defense/offense) than Fox. But both are not good shooter (just look at their 3 point shooting history and more importantly their free throw percentages

But Simmons is still a better overall player than both of them.

Teams Just don’t want to mortgage their future for Simmons. They want foreclosure price for Simmons. And sixers hold all the cards with Simmons contract.

So Simmons will continue to rot unless he’s mentally stable to show up again.

For the sake of the nba. For the sake of nba organization. I’m ok with letting Simmons rot and end his career. He will be broke the way he spends money.

[Ballerhogger]

Is Westbrook for Simmons deal looking any better!?

[GSWFan1994]

If you add up all the Simmons threads made in this forum since this soap opera's start, you'll have the first billion page thread in internet's history.