NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2)

[AleksandarN]

Points produced for the team seems pretty even based on the ppg difference between Luka and Jokic, as well as the assists he generates.

Same number of games, more 3s per game (pretty big actually), more steals per game. Equal number of blocks with Luka being far shorter.

That’s all the raw stats? Lol because jokic leads in the majority of raw stats. It is not anywhere close to equal. Why do you have to lie or try deceive just to bring down Jokic. You can’t really hate him that much do you?

What am I lying about?

I just told you the things he's better at. Raw stats are box score stats. Jokic has him on FG percentage, 3 point percentages, assist and rebounds.

Luka has him on PPG, SPG, equal on blocks, higher FTAs.

The question was which ones is he better at apart form PPG. I gave FACTS.

As I said I love him as a player and think he's a genius. Just think this advanced stats narrative has become a bit much over the last three years. It needs to lead to playoff success, and until it does, there will always been an asterisk in my mind.

If Jokic never wins a chip, and we look back 20 years from now, and see he's won MVP 3 years in a row, people will laugh and ask, wtf happened here.

See there you again you of course leave out more Jokic stats, Jokic leads in more raw stats than Luka, Just be honest

[eyeatoma]

That’s all the raw stats? Lol because jokic leads in the majority of raw stats. It is not anywhere close to equal. Why do you have to lie or try deceive just to bring down Jokic. You can’t really hate him that much do you?

What am I lying about?

I just told you the things he's better at. Raw stats are box score stats. Jokic has him on FG percentage, 3 point percentages, assist and rebounds.

Luka has him on PPG, SPG, equal on blocks, higher FTAs.

The question was which ones is he better at apart form PPG. I gave FACTS.

As I said I love him as a player and think he's a genius. Just think this advanced stats narrative has become a bit much over the last three years. It needs to lead to playoff success, and until it does, there will always been an asterisk in my mind.

If Jokic never wins a chip, and we look back 20 years from now, and see he's won MVP 3 years in a row, people will laugh and ask, wtf happened here.

See there you again you of course leave out more Jokic stats, Jokic leads in more raw stats than Luka, Just be honest

FT%? What else?

[CobraCommander]

First time I've watched Tatum in a while. Not impressed tbh.

edit: wanted to post in the game thread, but I guess it's appropriate here since JT is in the MVP convo.

Not impressed with 34 and 19 in a win against the defending champs when he is the only starter on the Celtics with a positive plus/minus? I know that stat doesn’t tell the whole story but winning matters ... no Tatum isn’t Jokicesq efficient but he got the win...which is why they play

I guess Jokić spoiled me
He was really careless with the ball and 34 points on 27 shots isn't really impressive today. Not saying it was a bad game from him, it was just a reaction at the moment. Like I said in the edit, I wanted to post that in the game thread.
That being said, Boston is a really good team. Having guys like Smart and Horford next to your two star players is immense.

Conclusion: I gotta watch more non-Nuggets games.

Don’t compare him to Jokic...and you will appreciate him more

[Mick Dundee]

Jokic was incredible tonight.

The way he vorped his Team to victory from the sideline is incomparable.

True MVP Stuff.

Name the Trophy after him already.

[BelgradeNugget]

Jokic was incredible tonight.

The way he vorped his Team to victory from the sideline is incomparable.

True MVP Stuff.

Name the Trophy after him already.

No, Curry and Durant were better. Tatum also dominated tonight, with Mitchell close to him. Embiid 5th. I would take Jokic as 6th at best. But since SGA scored most poinz tonight, maybe we should give it to him?

[BelgradeNugget]

The double standards continue with Luka having his team in 5th, but somehow that's not enough, because Jokic is in 1st now, even though Embiid was in 1st 2 years ago. Every year they make reasons why no one else can win it, but then when Jokic does it it's fine. LOL

You don't deserve the MVP for 6th seed. Especially when the competition played a career high in games.
Goal posts are always moved for Joker. If he wins this year he'll go down as the only 3 peat MVP winner who has not won a chip.

I mean you guys will find any stat to give a reason for why Jokic deserves it. Even it's one measly game.

Explain why Luka isn't the front runner right now, when he's put up godly career high stats, and has the Mavs in playoff contention. His roster is worse than the Nuggets this year. Jokic got that benefit last year, why doesn't Luka this year?

Ha, ha, you again with your assguments.

So, you are arguing that Embiid should have won MVP two years ago despite missing 21 games in 72 games season, because he was 1st. Jokic was 3rd in the West, too low I guess. But you know what? Embiid wasn't 1st: drum, drum, drum, Mitchell was 1st in the league, missed only 19 games and had good stats. So why aren't you talking about Mitchell, Booker, Paul with your "criteria"? But, but, but Embiid

This is getting better last year Jokic shouldn't have won because he was 6th and Embiid should have won because he was 3rd, but year before Jokic shouldn't have won because he was 3rd but Embiid was 1st in the East, and let's pretend Jazz and Suns didn't have better records than 76ers, and this year Jokic shouldn't win because he is 1st but Luka should win because he is 6th...

Man better prepare yourself next time.

BTW Jokic should have won Most Valuable Philadelphian last year, it was robbery to give it to Embiid.

One more thing - you know who played carrier high in games last year?

Deni Avdija
Dwight Powell
Kevon Looney
Mikal Bridges
Saddiq Bey

all played carrier high 82 games, all should have been Most Valuable Philadelphians

[Sharkboy242]

Jokic was incredible tonight.

The way he vorped his Team to victory from the sideline is incomparable.

True MVP Stuff.

Name the Trophy after him already.

He manifested his being through Murray who got a triple double. Truly remarkable stuff here folks.

[Sharkboy242]

Not sure what you're talking about, last two years were definitely a razor's edge. 2 years ago, Embiid was the betting odds favorite at the all star break, then he went down with an injury. Last year he was leading the straw poll at All star break, then Zach Lowe freaked out and got his podcast buddies to vote Jokic, who's in 6th. They decided on the MVP based on 3 losses after the AS break, 1 to the Nuggets, 1 to the Nets and 1 to the Celtics.

The double standards continue with Luka having his team in 5th, but somehow that's not enough, because Jokic is in 1st now, even though Embiid was in 1st 2 years ago. Every year they make reasons why no one else can win it, but then when Jokic does it it's fine. LOL

I like how you constantly bring up this second straw poll anecdote as if it has any merit. It doesnt. You don’t win MVP midway during the season, a basketball game doesn’t end in the 3rd Q.

You should have made like Trump and yelled “stop the count” while Embiid was up lol

[Sgt Major]

Jokic was incredible tonight.

The way he vorped his Team to victory from the sideline is incomparable.

True MVP Stuff.

Name the Trophy after him already.

Yep, this Miami Vice drip certainly is MVP worthy

[RipHamilton]

Jokic was incredible tonight.

The way he vorped his Team to victory from the sideline is incomparable.

True MVP Stuff.

Name the Trophy after him already.

Keep crying. Three-peat coming.

Regards.

[Mick Dundee]

Jokic was incredible tonight.

The way he vorped his Team to victory from the sideline is incomparable.

True MVP Stuff.

Name the Trophy after him already.

Yep, this Miami Vice drip certainly is MVP worthy

Russell Casse Reborn ...

[Mick Dundee]

Jokic was incredible tonight.

The way he vorped his Team to victory from the sideline is incomparable.

True MVP Stuff.

Name the Trophy after him already.

Keep crying. Three-peat coming.

Regards.

Why would I be crying? I like the Joker and the Nuggets.

But I got grilled from all sides on here a few days ago, when I said that the Nuggets are great without him.

A great Team, clicking on all corners with loads of Shooting Prowess.

[cam24thomas]

Doncic isn't much better than Jokic statistically, so is there really a chance of Doncic winning MVP?
The Nuggets are most likely going to finish Top 2 (have a big buffer over the 3rd seed), while the Mavs are 5th and only 2 games from 9th....

[Dirk]

What a special night for the Nuggets. Season high 38 assists. 16 dunks.

Murray triple double and Pacers destroyed. Looks like they had a lot of fun out there.

The Nuggets have won the last 3 games Jokic missed (3-2) overall. Mavs are 0-5 without Luka.

Not sure how rational it is to prop up a candidate because his team finishes #1 or #2 and downgrade someone else for his team finishing #5 or #6, when there's an obvious gap in talent in the roster around them.

[Archx]

When the Mavs boss himself mod-Dirk gets involved, then you know it's a serious business and no joking around

[leolozon]

What a special night for the Nuggets. Season high 38 assists. 16 dunks.

Murray triple double and Pacers destroyed. Looks like they had a lot of fun out there.

The Nuggets have won the last 3 games Jokic missed (2-3) overall. Mavs are 0-5 without Luka.

Not sure how rational it is to prop up a candidate because his team finishes #1 or #2 and downgrade someone else for his team finishing #5 or #6, when there's an obvious gap in talent in the roster around them.

3-2 you mean.

I think there’s something wrong in +-, in the sense that it can’t quite capture how some players in the starting lineup can step up without the main guy there.

[cam24thomas]

What a special night for the Nuggets. Season high 38 assists. 16 dunks.

Murray triple double and Pacers destroyed. Looks like they had a lot of fun out there.

The Nuggets have won the last 3 games Jokic missed (3-2) overall. Mavs are 0-5 without Luka.

Not sure how rational it is to prop up a candidate because his team finishes #1 or #2 and downgrade someone else for his team finishing #5 or #6, when there's an obvious gap in talent in the roster around them.

But throughout NBA history we've rarely seen a player win MVP if their team wasn't Top 4.
Even in 1987-88, the Bulls were seeded 3rd when MJ won his first MVP (and Defensive Player of the Year).
Westbrook did (won MVP with Thunder seeded 6th), because the media was sucked in by the triple-double average....
Whereas Doncic doesn't have anything special over Jokic statistically to make an exception.

[Dirk]

What a special night for the Nuggets. Season high 38 assists. 16 dunks.

Murray triple double and Pacers destroyed. Looks like they had a lot of fun out there.

The Nuggets have won the last 3 games Jokic missed (3-2) overall. Mavs are 0-5 without Luka.

Not sure how rational it is to prop up a candidate because his team finishes #1 or #2 and downgrade someone else for his team finishing #5 or #6, when there's an obvious gap in talent in the roster around them.

But throughout NBA history we've rarely seen a player win MVP if their team isn't Top 4.

If I am not mistaken, the Nuggets last year finished #6 seed and the 10th best record in the league.

[LessEyeTest]

I’m just here for eyeatoma’s years

[sam_I_am]

In the history of NBA MVP, no 3 time MVP has failed to win a title during their MVP seasons. In fact, the only multi-MVP not to win titles or at least appear in finals during their MVP runs are Jokic and Nash. Karl Malone won 2 MVPs and lost to Bulls in finals one of those seasons. Bob Petit won 2 MVPs and won his ring the year before his second MVP. Jokic’s first round exit last year is the 4th time in NBA history that has happened to an MVP. Russell Westbrook once and Moses Malone twice in Houston were the only others. Moses won MVP year after losing to Celtics in finals (carrying a team with no other notable players past the great 80s Lakers) and again in his title year in Philly.

Jokic appears on track to win his 3rd MVP - statistically. If he does so and has another flameout in playoffs I wonder if NBA will change selection process again. How can a guy be so dominant as to get selected MVP 3 straight years and fail to even get past second round during that time? Say what you want about Luka but he carried a very weak team to WCF last year on his back.