RGM GOAT Debate Thread

[The4thHorseman]

Show me the playoff games where he didn't show up, let alone finals.

Should I start with the time Jordan scored 15 points in a playoff game against the Knicks? Or should we discuss that time where he shot 16% from the field for an entire game? How about the time he straight up cost his team a game against the Magic with careless turnovers in the final minutes? Game 4 of the finals where he shot 31% for a measly 23 points? Hell, that very same series, he had a poor close out performance with only 22 points on 5/19 shooting from the field. Hell, the next year in the finals he had another 22 point performance, this time shooting 11/27 from the field.

You’re welcome to think he’s the GOAT, but to even suggest he’s never had bad games before is laughable.

Of course he had a few bad games. But overall, he showed up, and I can't think of an important game where he didn't, even including his rust year

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198905310DET.html

[MavsDirk41]

Should I start with the time Jordan scored 15 points in a playoff game against the Knicks? Or should we discuss that time where he shot 16% from the field for an entire game? How about the time he straight up cost his team a game against the Magic with careless turnovers in the final minutes? Game 4 of the finals where he shot 31% for a measly 23 points? Hell, that very same series, he had a poor close out performance with only 22 points on 5/19 shooting from the field. Hell, the next year in the finals he had another 22 point performance, this time shooting 11/27 from the field.

You’re welcome to think he’s the GOAT, but to even suggest he’s never had bad games before is laughable.

Of course he had a few bad games. But overall, he showed up, and I can't think of an important game where he didn't, even including his rust year

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198905310DET.html

Thats the best you could come up with? Lol yea he had some stinkers like everybody else but he was pretty good in the next game which was the close out game.

[bledredwine]

Of course he had a few bad games. But overall, he showed up, and I can't think of an important game where he didn't, even including his rust year

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198905310DET.html

Thats the best you could come up with? Lol yea he had some stinkers like everybody else but he was pretty good in the next game which was the close out game.

Funny how they have to search hard for just one game yet we can find entire series or three-four consecutive games with Lebron, not to mention four series where his finals matchup got finals MVP and then he decided not to guard durant in the finals…

yeah, poor comparison.

[The4thHorseman]

Of course he had a few bad games. But overall, he showed up, and I can't think of an important game where he didn't, even including his rust year

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198905310DET.html

Thats the best you could come up with? Lol yea he had some stinkers like everybody else but he was pretty good in the next game which was the close out game.

It was the biggest game of his career to date and he decided to mail it in before tipoff even happened.

[MavsDirk41]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198905310DET.html

Thats the best you could come up with? Lol yea he had some stinkers like everybody else but he was pretty good in the next game which was the close out game.

It was the biggest game of his career to date and he decided to mail it in before tipoff even happened.

Ok and here are the close out games for your guys first two finals

07 - game 4 in the finals
10/30 from the field
2/7 from 3
2/6 from the line
6 turnovers

2011 - game 6 in the finals
9/15 from the finals
2/5 from 3
1/4 from the line
6 turnovers


If your gonna call out Jordan or anybody else, your gonna hear it about your guy too.

[MavsDirk41]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198905310DET.html

Thats the best you could come up with? Lol yea he had some stinkers like everybody else but he was pretty good in the next game which was the close out game.

Funny how they have to search hard for just one game yet we can find entire series or three-four consecutive games with Lebron, not to mention four series where his finals matchup got finals MVP and then he decided not to guard durant in the finals…

yeah, poor comparison.

The problem is they put blinders on or have amnesia when it comes to his failures

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

It is hard to compare apples to oranges.
Wilt vs Russell vs Magic vs Jordan vs Shaq is difficult.

Kobe vs Jordan is not difficult. Kobe vs Jordan is apples vs apples.

[Jcool0]

Should I start with the time Jordan scored 15 points in a playoff game against the Knicks? Or should we discuss that time where he shot 16% from the field for an entire game? How about the time he straight up cost his team a game against the Magic with careless turnovers in the final minutes? Game 4 of the finals where he shot 31% for a measly 23 points? Hell, that very same series, he had a poor close out performance with only 22 points on 5/19 shooting from the field. Hell, the next year in the finals he had another 22 point performance, this time shooting 11/27 from the field.

You’re welcome to think he’s the GOAT, but to even suggest he’s never had bad games before is laughable.

Of course he had a few bad games. But overall, he showed up, and I can't think of an important game where he didn't, even including his rust year

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198905310DET.html

He made a conscious effort, he said, to involve his teammates in the offense, what with the Pistons putting everybody but their trainer on him when he touched the ball.

“Why should I take the shots if they’re double-teaming me, triple-teaming me, sometimes even putting four guys on me?” Jordan asked. “Didn’t we still get good shots?”

Yes, Michael.

“Well, did we hit ‘em?”

No, Michael.

“That’s the whole story,” Jordan said. “We gotta hit ‘em.”

Held to 18 points--10 on free throws--Jordan was virtually no scoring factor in the game, although he did account for more than half (nine) of Chicago’s assists.

Was anything wrong?

No, Jordan said. “I just never felt I had the situation where I could take over the game and do what you all thought I was going to do.

“I feel good. I don’t feel tired. There’s nothing like that wrong with me. I’m going to say it again: I am not going to force anything. I can’t shoot with their whole team on me. If the other guys hit their shots, we win, plain and simple.”

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1989-06-01-sp-1414-story.html

[bledredwine]

Of course he had a few bad games. But overall, he showed up, and I can't think of an important game where he didn't, even including his rust year

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198905310DET.html

He made a conscious effort, he said, to involve his teammates in the offense, what with the Pistons putting everybody but their trainer on him when he touched the ball.

“Why should I take the shots if they’re double-teaming me, triple-teaming me, sometimes even putting four guys on me?” Jordan asked. “Didn’t we still get good shots?”

Yes, Michael.

“Well, did we hit ‘em?”

No, Michael.

“That’s the whole story,” Jordan said. “We gotta hit ‘em.”

Held to 18 points--10 on free throws--Jordan was virtually no scoring factor in the game, although he did account for more than half (nine) of Chicago’s assists.

Was anything wrong?

No, Jordan said. “I just never felt I had the situation where I could take over the game and do what you all thought I was going to do.

“I feel good. I don’t feel tired. There’s nothing like that wrong with me. I’m going to say it again: I am not going to force anything. I can’t shoot with their whole team on me. If the other guys hit their shots, we win, plain and simple.”

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1989-06-01-sp-1414-story.html

So basically you can find a game against a team who created rules and a system to double and triple down to specifically stop Jordan, often battering him along the way. Compared to Lebron, that’s nothing. For Lebron, he lost a finals series and put his team in position to lose another. Comparatively, it’s not close. Four of his finals matchups won Finals MVP.

On the contrary, no one talks about how terribly the Bulls played in 1990 and that if the teammates did their job, Jordan would have had a championship in 1990.

[The Explorer]

Should I start with the time Jordan scored 15 points in a playoff game against the Knicks? Or should we discuss that time where he shot 16% from the field for an entire game? How about the time he straight up cost his team a game against the Magic with careless turnovers in the final minutes? Game 4 of the finals where he shot 31% for a measly 23 points? Hell, that very same series, he had a poor close out performance with only 22 points on 5/19 shooting from the field. Hell, the next year in the finals he had another 22 point performance, this time shooting 11/27 from the field.

You’re welcome to think he’s the GOAT, but to even suggest he’s never had bad games before is laughable.

Of course he had a few bad games. But overall, he showed up, and I can't think of an important game where he didn't, even including his rust year

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198905310DET.html

You can find a few sub-par Jordan games. You can find plenty of James sub-par series. Thanks for highlighting the differences.

[Iwasawitness]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198905310DET.html

He made a conscious effort, he said, to involve his teammates in the offense, what with the Pistons putting everybody but their trainer on him when he touched the ball.

“Why should I take the shots if they’re double-teaming me, triple-teaming me, sometimes even putting four guys on me?” Jordan asked. “Didn’t we still get good shots?”

Yes, Michael.

“Well, did we hit ‘em?”

No, Michael.

“That’s the whole story,” Jordan said. “We gotta hit ‘em.”

Held to 18 points--10 on free throws--Jordan was virtually no scoring factor in the game, although he did account for more than half (nine) of Chicago’s assists.

Was anything wrong?

No, Jordan said. “I just never felt I had the situation where I could take over the game and do what you all thought I was going to do.

“I feel good. I don’t feel tired. There’s nothing like that wrong with me. I’m going to say it again: I am not going to force anything. I can’t shoot with their whole team on me. If the other guys hit their shots, we win, plain and simple.”

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1989-06-01-sp-1414-story.html

So basically you can find a game against a team who created rules and a system to double and triple down to specifically stop Jordan, often battering him along the way. Compared to Lebron, that’s nothing. For Lebron, he lost a finals series and put his team in position to lose another. Comparatively, it’s not close. Four of his finals matchups won Finals MVP.

On the contrary, no one talks about how terribly the Bulls played in 1990 and that if the teammates did their job, Jordan would have had a championship in 1990.

Why do you continue to push the "LeBron put his team in position to lose 2013" narrative? First off that isn't true at all, but second and more importantly... it was two all time performances by LeBron in games 6 and 7 that ultimately led to Miami winning in the first place. Do you just think we're all brain dead and can't critically think? Do you not understand that logic like this isn't going to work on this site? Again, this is why no one takes you seriously.

Oh and by the way, Dallas planned their entire defensive scheme around slowing down LeBron, to the point where they just let Wade do whatever he wanted. So uh yeah, it's pretty comparable. But again, I know objectivity isn't your thing. You couldn't even admit to being wrong about Jordan not showing up for a game and instead had to make a laughable statement. This is what you do, I shouldn't expect you to change at this point.

[Iwasawitness]

Of course he had a few bad games. But overall, he showed up, and I can't think of an important game where he didn't, even including his rust year

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198905310DET.html

You can find a few sub-par Jordan games. You can find plenty of James sub-par series. Thanks for highlighting the differences.

Jordan's had some sub-par series too.

[Quattro]

64% to 21%....ouch

[bledredwine]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198905310DET.html

You can find a few sub-par Jordan games. You can find plenty of James sub-par series. Thanks for highlighting the differences.

Jordan's had some sub-par series too.

If we did a comparison between the two and their worst failures from how they performed, it wouldn’t be close.

And the same can be said for best series. Lebron’s Raptors series blew many minds for the scoring prowess (averaging 36 or something, plz look it up). Jordan averaged 40 for five playoff series, including 41 ppg in the finals. 4-7 more ppg, five times as frequently, abundance of 3’s not even needed to dominate like that.

[Iwasawitness]

You can find a few sub-par Jordan games. You can find plenty of James sub-par series. Thanks for highlighting the differences.

Jordan's had some sub-par series too.

If we did a comparison between the two and their worst failures from how they performed, it wouldn’t be close.

And the same can be said for best series. Lebron’s Raptors series blew many minds for the scoring prowess (averaging 36 or something, plz look it up). Jordan averaged 40 for five playoff series, including 41 ppg in the finals. 4-7 more ppg, five times as frequently, abundance of 3’s not even needed to dominate like that.

Again, just continue to keep proving my point for me.

FYI, nothing Jordan's ever done will compare to 2016.

[bledredwine]

Jordan's had some sub-par series too.

If we did a comparison between the two and their worst failures from how they performed, it wouldn’t be close.

And the same can be said for best series. Lebron’s Raptors series blew many minds for the scoring prowess (averaging 36 or something, plz look it up). Jordan averaged 40 for five playoff series, including 41 ppg in the finals. 4-7 more ppg, five times as frequently, abundance of 3’s not even needed to dominate like that.

Again, just continue to keep proving my point for me.

FYI, nothing Jordan's ever done will compare to 2016.

Go ahead and post the stats. I'll post 5 series that are better from Jordan, easy.

You must not know that he averaged nearly 40 ppg for an entire season

[Iwasawitness]

If we did a comparison between the two and their worst failures from how they performed, it wouldn’t be close.

And the same can be said for best series. Lebron’s Raptors series blew many minds for the scoring prowess (averaging 36 or something, plz look it up). Jordan averaged 40 for five playoff series, including 41 ppg in the finals. 4-7 more ppg, five times as frequently, abundance of 3’s not even needed to dominate like that.

Again, just continue to keep proving my point for me.

FYI, nothing Jordan's ever done will compare to 2016.

Go ahead and post the stats. I'll post 5 series that are better from Jordan, easy.

You must not know that he averaged nearly 40 ppg for an entire season

Oh I’m well aware. But again, I’m not going to waste my time with someone who just blindly looks at PPG and ignores any and all context.

[ThatClockWork]

I just want to know who the ten people are who selected Kobe Bryant at this point lol

[SlimShady83]

LOL you two need to get a room, oh wait you have one here:) much respect.

Here's a fun one for you's to talk about and not sure whether already tried here or somewhere else? Can't keep up with It all lol, busy busy.

Jordan was drafted 3rd over all In his draft behind Akeem (name changed later) and S.Bowie ...

If Jordan gets drafted yet 3rd In the last, let's say 10 years (doesn't matter which year) and Jordan stays with that team, can he win a championship 1 or more with that team? Remember any team with In last 10 years who selected "3RD" In that years draft, Jordan goes with (edit Instead of) that year's draft pic.

Pic the year and which team that gets drafted 3rd:), Jordan enters the lineup straight up - probably. And that team selects Jordan Instead of the actual draft pic that year.

This might be a tough one?
Getting ready for the wknd Happy wknd In advance.

[SlimShady83]

I just want to know who the ten people are who selected Kobe Bryant at this point lol

I actually thought I did, because I'm a Kobe homer and his my Idol, but I looked at poll and actually went with MJ...
I was hovering the mouse over his name when I was drinking when I started this back In July <> much respect to those who did