Cooper Flagg

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Re: Cooper Flagg 

Post#1481 » by FrodoBaggins » Sun Feb 23, 2025 3:57 am

LockoutSeason wrote:Nbadraft.net has Scottie Pippen as his comparison

Saw that. The previous comp was Andrei Kirilenko/Shawn Marion.

NBA Comparison: Scottie Pippen

Strengths: Flagg is a highly touted, 6’9 205 player who has the physical dimensions (7′ foot 1 wingspan) to fit anywhere along the frontcourt, having the height to stand out as a wing, in addition to the length and the developing strength necessary to play as a natural PF and possibly develop some face the basket 3 skills … A long strider, who also shows excellent leaping skills and can cover ground in big swoops laterally or when running the floor … Very much mobile and is a fluid, agile mover on the court … Has no problems initiating offense after corralling missed shots off the glass (8.1 RPG as of writing) or coming up with live ball turnovers (1.6 SPG); is a terror for teams to deal with when he has a head of steam and defenders on their heels in transition play … An emphatic finisher who gets countless dunks and has enough wiry strength in his frame to convert over players and through contact (54 FG% inside the arc) … His extension at the rim and touch are both a plus … Also quite comfortable and skilled in pick and roll situations; making good decisions as a roll man as to whether he should dish or call his own number when he has the ball and is an accurate passer as a frontcourt player (4.1 APG/2.6 TOPG) … Very quick first step for his size and is a weapon taking guys his size off the dribble when facing up … Also uses his quickness in post-up situations and likes to turn his left shoulder and get into his jump hooks around the hoop … Moves without the ball well and gets himself some easy points by simply being active as a cutter … Good shot selection; lets the game come to him … Has a versatile scoring profile and mismatch skill set that makes him a tricky cover … Has produced 9 games with at least 20 points at the midway point of this season (19.2 PPG, 49 FG%) … Likes to shoot mid-range jumpers, and is efficient rising and hitting shots off the dribble in rhythm going in either direction … Good enough shot-making skills with his feet set from the perimeter to keep defenses honest; has made strides as the season has progressed from behind the arc (23 made 3s, 35 3FG% in 18 games) … Can pick and pop or run to open shots inside the arc and hit short jumpers … His aggression makes him no stranger to the FT line, and he does a nice job converting once he’s there (80 FT% on 6.1 FTA/G) … So much to like about his ability and potential on the defensive end of the floor; has shown plenty of examples of being a ‘sideline-to-sideline’ defensive player with his ability to freelance and erase shots at the rim (1.2 BPG, currently leads Duke in blocks with 22 as a Fr.) or come up with steals that lead to open floor opportunities, where he is most potent (1.6 SPG) … Moves his feet well; will be asked to guard multiple positions and has all the projections to be able to handle this responsibility … Displays great instincts and timing, and uses his formidable length and range to his advantage as a playmaker on the defensive end of the floor …. A fierce competitor comparable to the greats in the game of basketball, who has been lauded for his intensity in games and practices … Can take over games and has displayed the ability to will his team to wins at times … Stuffs the stat sheet and leads Duke in nearly every major stat category … Highly decorated amateur career and is remarkably just turned 18 years old (December), and wont turn 19 until his rookie season due to reclassifying as a HS Soph … Vocal and confident player who has shown the ability to considerably raise the level of every team he’s played on … Extremely mature and focused individual. NBA Teams are certainly intrigued by the person as well as the player as he’s high character individual that teams can count on from a professional aspect …

Weaknesses: A bit thin; adding more pounds to his frame wouldn’t hurt although he should be able to add muscle without the loss of mobility relatively easily … Not a bad ball-handler for his size but doesn’t have great creativity off the bounce, particularly when handling on the perimeter at the moment where he can at times be too loose with the ball when faced with on-ball pressure … His development as an isolation scorer on the perimeter will determine just how high his scoring upside is, and that’s the biggest question about his offensive game currently even though he’s still obviously been scoring the ball just fine to put it mildly … Shooting numbers are improving but he should continue to work on tightening up his fundamentals, as he sometimes doesn’t keep his elbows tight which leads to some of his shots being offline … Will get caught out of position at times defensively going after blocks and steals; has given up some offensive rebounds and easy layups chasing turnovers … Probably nitpicking as his potential is sky high and he can be one of the best players of an era if things fall into place, however a small concern is the fact that he doesn;t have an exact positional fit and there are some who may label him as a tweener lacking ideal strength as a four and speed and skills to play the wing. But don’t bet against him as the tweener label can sometimes be a positive adding versatility and match up problems for the opposition, instead of problems for the player …

Overall: Cooper Flagg has been a highly discussed and ballyhooed prospect since his Fr. year of HS as a rare blue chip prospect from the state of Maine, where he won a state title and stuffed the stat sheet as a 9th grader…He went on to play for the powerhouse Montverde Academy where he continued to win and was an AAU sensation for both the Florida Eagles and Maine United squads, making a name for himself as the widely regarded best HS player in the country regardless of Class on the EYBL circuit and earning consensus Player of the Year honors in 2024…He signed during the beginning of his Sr season to Duke and he has certainly lived up to his billing as a Fr. in the 2024-2025, leading the Blue Devils to being the #2 ranked team in the country as of today while being the teams leading scorer, rebounder, assist man, ball thief and shot-blocker as an 18 year old … He also has shown his dynamic ability to take over games offensively with 9 20+ point games, including a 42-point outburst against Notre Dame that was the most points scored by a Fr in the prestigious history of the ACC and that he only needed 14 FG attempts to reach…He is a lengthy frontcourt player who brings mismatch scoring skills, high level athleticism and intensity, offensive and defensive playmaking instincts, and a pedigree of winning and success to the table and the kinds of production and intangibles any team would love to build around…Flagg is a guy who will be looked at as a franchise player by the team who selects him, and someone who will be faced with lofty expectations considering the already pristine groundwork he’s put together to this point …
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Re: Cooper Flagg 

Post#1482 » by Handlez » Sun Feb 23, 2025 4:14 am

This mfer cold
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Re: Cooper Flagg 

Post#1483 » by Duke4life831 » Sun Feb 23, 2025 5:00 am

One of his better games overall. Doesn't stand out in the stats, but he was just damn good. Of his 7 boards, at least 3 of them were "wow" rebounds. His facilitating to open up the game was high level. Was very active in the passing lanes. That dribble pull up 3 looked ridiculously smooth.

Shame Duke is blowing everyone out, its going to end up costing Flagg NPOY
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Re: Cooper Flagg 

Post#1484 » by johannking » Sun Feb 23, 2025 5:43 am

Duke4life831 wrote:One of his better games overall. Doesn't stand out in the stats, but he was just damn good. Of his 7 boards, at least 3 of them were "wow" rebounds. His facilitating to open up the game was high level. Was very active in the passing lanes. That dribble pull up 3 looked ridiculously smooth.

Shame Duke is blowing everyone out, its going to end up costing Flagg NPOY


Good overall game, yes. One of his better games? Heck no
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Re: Cooper Flagg 

Post#1485 » by tsherkin » Sun Feb 23, 2025 7:24 am

LockoutSeason wrote:Nbadraft.net has Scottie Pippen as his comparison


This is daft, of course. It isn't a good comparison at all.
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Re: Cooper Flagg 

Post#1486 » by FrodoBaggins » Sun Feb 23, 2025 8:28 am

tsherkin wrote:
LockoutSeason wrote:Nbadraft.net has Scottie Pippen as his comparison


This is daft, of course. It isn't a good comparison at all.

I don't think you understand the concept of player comparisons - what they mean/what's being implied. I think you're a skeptic just for the sake of it. Please name an apt comparison for Cooper in your opinion. I have a feeling you won't provide one.

I don't mean to come off rude but you've completely disregarded two reasonable comparisons (Tatum, Pippen) I've seen many respected former players, analysts, and pundits make. There are no perfect one-to-one player comps as each prospect is unique but our eyes don't deceive when we see similarities, however general or granular.
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Re: Cooper Flagg 

Post#1487 » by Ice Man » Sun Feb 23, 2025 12:40 pm

Wait now. I thought we were supposed to discount Flagg's performances this season because the ACC is weak. Yet Illinois has a winning record in the Big 10 and Duke just beat them by a score of 100,000 to 3.

So, no performances count unless they are against SEC teams?
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Re: Cooper Flagg 

Post#1488 » by Ice Man » Sun Feb 23, 2025 12:48 pm

Pippen vs. Cooper.

Alike - Both are excellent defenders, inside and out. Both are elite 2nd option scorers (Flagg may prove to be a 1st option, but let's be conservative for now) who rebound, assist, steal, and block shots. Guys who can (and have) let their teams in 5 categories. Both let the game come to them offensively, rather than behave like a traditional 1st option in dominating the ball. Both have very high BBIQs.

I mean, sure Scottie was quicker/more agile and Cooper stronger, no comparison is perfect, but as player types -- and the roles that each might play in the NBA -- they seem quite similar. Pair each of them with a high-scoring guard and bingo, you have a potential title contender.

All of which presupposes that Flagg will reach something near to Pippen's NBA level of quality, in addition to resembling his style. I don't know about that. Saying that there are some similarities in role/style is different than judging overall quality. I mean, we will see. The kid is only 18. He is miles better than 18 year old Pippen was, but that doesn't mean that he will be as good as 28 year old Pippen. One step at a time.
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Re: Cooper Flagg 

Post#1489 » by JustBuzzin » Sun Feb 23, 2025 1:32 pm

Put this kid in Charlotte with LaMelo/Miller and let them cook!
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Re: Cooper Flagg 

Post#1490 » by Jcool0 » Sun Feb 23, 2025 2:15 pm

tsherkin wrote:
LockoutSeason wrote:Nbadraft.net has Scottie Pippen as his comparison


This is daft, of course. It isn't a good comparison at all.


As a Bulls fan it's not a bad comparison. Flagg is projected to be a top defensive player with 20+ PPG upside. Pippen's prime years he averaged 19.6 PPG, 7.2 rebounds, 5.9 assists, 2.3 steals and 1 block. Flagg right now is 19.5 PPG , 7.7 rebounds, 4 assists, 1.6 steals and 1.1 blocks (those numbers would be higher if Duke wasn't winning by 20 a game).
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Re: Cooper Flagg 

Post#1491 » by Duke4life831 » Sun Feb 23, 2025 3:06 pm

johannking wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:One of his better games overall. Doesn't stand out in the stats, but he was just damn good. Of his 7 boards, at least 3 of them were "wow" rebounds. His facilitating to open up the game was high level. Was very active in the passing lanes. That dribble pull up 3 looked ridiculously smooth.

Shame Duke is blowing everyone out, its going to end up costing Flagg NPOY


Good overall game, yes. One of his better games? Heck no


Again I’m not saying it was his best game statistically (even though 16/7/5 in 23 minutes is very impressive). I’m just talking about how he played in those 23 minutes.

The rebounds weren’t just a bunch of non contested boards. He had some high level contested boards. No steals or blocks, but he was a menace on defense the entire night. Illinois coach post game even talked about how they tried to avoid him as much as possible when he was on the defensive end. He had a great hesitation move at the 3pt line, to burst by a big man with ease for a dunk. He had a super smooth dribble pull up 3.

Again it might not be his best statistical game (per minute it was damn good). I just think from how high level, smooth, and lack of mistakes on both ends. I think it was one of his more impressive games.
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Re: Cooper Flagg 

Post#1492 » by donato » Sun Feb 23, 2025 4:14 pm

Hook_Em wrote:
Special_Puppy wrote:
Synciere wrote:
I se a lot of bad mouthing of this draft but I attribute that to less people knowing enough about these players. I think Harper and Bailey both have real chances to be All NBA type players very early in their careers.


The conventional wisdom about this draft coming into this season was that it was very strong at the top even outside of Flagg. Who is underperforming expectations so far?


Sam Vecenie said he’s got about 12 first rd grades which is the lowest ever since he’s been covering the draft. Casuals just see the top-5 and think that qualifies a draft as good.



That's weird. Everything I've seen says it's a very strong draft throughout.
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Re: Cooper Flagg 

Post#1493 » by moderndarwin » Sun Feb 23, 2025 4:33 pm

He’s the white Tatum. Why is this not apparent to everyone. And he’s slightly better because his shot is a lot smoother and sound. He’s gonna be great.
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Re: Cooper Flagg 

Post#1494 » by Village Idiot » Sun Feb 23, 2025 5:25 pm

As a college freshman Pippen averaged 4.3 ppg. Flagg is far more advanced at the same age as Pippen was. It took Pippen four years of college and then a couple of years in the NBA to become the player we all remember now. Seeing as how much Flagg has developed his offensive game this season, along with his physical tools and mindset, I personally don't have an issue with the comparison.

Want to add that Toumani Camara really reminds me a lot of Pippen defensively. Same build, highly chiseled body and demeanor. Same jersey number as well.
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Re: Cooper Flagg 

Post#1495 » by tsherkin » Sun Feb 23, 2025 7:06 pm

Jcool0 wrote:
tsherkin wrote:
LockoutSeason wrote:Nbadraft.net has Scottie Pippen as his comparison


This is daft, of course. It isn't a good comparison at all.


As a Bulls fan it's not a bad comparison. Flagg is projected to be a top defensive player with 20+ PPG upside. Pippen's prime years he averaged 19.6 PPG, 7.2 rebounds, 5.9 assists, 2.3 steals and 1 block. Flagg right now is 19.5 PPG , 7.7 rebounds, 4 assists, 1.6 steals and 1.1 blocks (those numbers would be higher if Duke wasn't winning by 20 a game).


I don't think it's a poor comparison because I expect Flagg will underperform or can't reach Scottie's level.

Flagg has a chance to be a lot better than Scottie. I think the challenge is one of approach. Flagg is larger, has a chance to be a much better help defender, and has a chance to be a considerably better scoring threat.

FrodoBaggins wrote:I don't mean to come off rude but you've completely disregarded two reasonable comparisons (Tatum, Pippen) I've seen many respected former players, analysts, and pundits make. There are no perfect one-to-one player comps as each prospect is unique but our eyes don't deceive when we see similarities, however general or granular.


But they don't make sense, is the point. Sometimes, a single-player comparison isn't really appropriate. There are a bunch of athletic guys in the 6'7 - 6'9 range who can defend and score that folks are trying to shoehorn as comparison, but there are some large differences which make them weird. Tatum's shooting ability is considerably different from Flagg. And he appears to be much more of a power player than Tatum.

As you say, there are no perfect comparisons, though obviously no one is really selling perfect comparisons at the moment. The reason I was so vocal about the Tatum comparison is that the platform for his rise to prominence as a scorer is volume 3pt shooting, and it isn't something Flagg is doing. You can look at Tatum's college stats and wonder, sure, but there's a stylistic difference in how they approach the game. With Pippen, he had much worse scoring tools than Flagg. More athleticism, less size, less shooting ability, less power. And it took Pippen all 4 years to get himself kind of together, and even then, he never really got to even where Flagg is now as a shooter, which is a fundamental difference.


I don't think you understand the concept of player comparisons - what they mean/what's being implied. I think you're a skeptic just for the sake of it. Please name an apt comparison for Cooper in your opinion. I have a feeling you won't provide one.


I'm not a skeptic "for the sake of it." I just don't think those comparisons are good because there are LARGE differences in how the players approach the game.

I'll be honest, I don't remember 18 year-old Tatum at Duke. I can see the statistical similarities. But I have been watching Tatum in the NBA, and he's been an elite 3pt shooter to a degree I don't really see in Flagg at the moment, particularly over the last half decade, and that's where my resistance to the comparison comes from. With Pippen, again, it's that Pip was weak sauce on his J entirely, and didn't have the same size or power, so the approach to the game was different, coupled to the difference in speed. Statistically, the output we might expect and the 2-way play seem fair, but like, you could say that of a lot of different players. I could stick with the Kirilenko Plus comparison and get there, or like Shawn Marion with more handles and a better J, you know?

If anything else, that's probably a good sign.
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Re: Cooper Flagg 

Post#1496 » by tmorgan » Sun Feb 23, 2025 9:40 pm

Not easy to comp a guy like Flagg.

I think it’s pretty clear he’s going to develop into a bully, dunk-on-you pro. He’s got the frame, hops and the attitude for it.

If his jumper doesn’t stand out, that makes him a modern Shawn Kemp. But he should shoot better than that, and he’ll definitely handle and pass better than Kemp, and he isn’t THAT level of athlete either, so that doesn’t work, does it?

Defensively, people love the AK47 comp because they both get crazy stocks, are white, and are about 6’8” or 6’9”. But Andrei was actually fairly skinny and extremely mobile, while Cooper projects to be stronger but not as quick. Flagg is almost certainly going to end up a 4 in the NBA, tho the smaller wing position may be fine until he fills out more. Flagg should be a better rebounder than AK as well, as he likes to mix to up and is way more physical.

That’s what makes Flagg fun, really. A big forward sized white guy that’s extremely aggressive, but still possesses way above average potential at his position in terms of handle, passing instincts, and maybe shooting, along with truly elite defensive instincts. I think he could be all kinds of interesting things in the future.
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Re: Cooper Flagg 

Post#1497 » by tsherkin » Sun Feb 23, 2025 9:49 pm

tmorgan wrote:Not easy to comp a guy like Flagg.

I think it’s pretty clear he’s going to develop into a bully, dunk-on-you pro. He’s got the frame, hops and the attitude for it.

If his jumper doesn’t stand out, that makes him a modern Shawn Kemp. But he should shoot better than that, and he’ll definitely handle and pass better than Kemp, and he isn’t THAT level of athlete either, so that doesn’t work, does it?


Yeah. He's aggressive, he goes hard to the rim, but he doesn't have the same sort of power/explosion Kemp had, and he does appear to be a better shooter. And playmaker.

Defensively, people love the AK47 comp because they both get crazy stocks, are white, and are about 6’8” or 6’9”. But Andrei was actually fairly skinny and extremely mobile, while Cooper projects to be stronger but not as quick. Flagg is almost certainly going to end up a 4 in the NBA, tho the smaller wing position may be fine until he fills out more. Flagg should be a better rebounder than AK as well, as he likes to mix to up and is way more physical.


Yep, that's all true. You could argue that a slightly-less-athletic Josh Smith who actually has a brain might be more appropriate on defense, but that's a lot of qualifiers.

He's neat, though. Doesn't line up too well with any one guy. He's athletic, but not ATG athletic. He's aggressive, but not quite as explosive as the Blake Griffin's, Shawn Kemp's and so forth of the world. He's got some good vision and passing, but he isn't an ATG point forward at this stage.

He looks like he has a good change-of-pace game and a left hand, which will help. He has a jumper, but he doesn't look at the moment like he's an elite shooter (solid foundation, though), though we'll see. He's 18, and he does seem to be improving as the season wears on. His competition isn't super impressive, so we'll see what happens when he hits the league, but basically he's showing everything folks are asking of him, right? He seems to use his body pretty well, and he's only going to get larger and stronger. He shields the trailing defender on the PnR well, he knows how to protect the ball with his wide frame, all good things. He doesn't NEED to explode too much because he has long arms and uses his shoulders well, plus he has some nice fakes.
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Re: Cooper Flagg 

Post#1498 » by tmorgan » Sun Feb 23, 2025 9:56 pm

Josh Smith with a brain and a better shot is a scary good player.
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Re: Cooper Flagg 

Post#1499 » by wegotthabeet » Sun Feb 23, 2025 9:59 pm

JustBuzzin wrote:Put this kid in Charlotte with LaMelo/Miller and let them cook!


For what 40 games per year? If I landed Flagg I’d move Melo personally. I’d move Melo regardless actually while his value is still high.
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Re: Cooper Flagg 

Post#1500 » by JustBuzzin » Sun Feb 23, 2025 10:05 pm

wegotthabeet wrote:
JustBuzzin wrote:Put this kid in Charlotte with LaMelo/Miller and let them cook!


For what 40 games per year? If I landed Flagg I’d move Melo personally. I’d move Melo regardless actually while his value is still high.

I can see that possibility as well. Just build around Flagg/Miller + whatever we get for Melo.

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