2014-2015 NBA MVP Discussion

[Nebula1]

Still no poll.


James Harden for MVP

[Shock Defeat]

[Michael Lucky]

Too bad AD's teammates aren't very good, or he'd easily be my MVP for this season.

[BBgun]

I really want to see Curry win it, but the Warriors wealth of talent ultimately works against him, even if he is the guy that makes everything run as well as it does. I just can't give it to anybody but Harden at this point. He's playing at a scarily high level the last two months, and he was still great overall in November.

[day1086]

Curry is on pace for 70 wins and you guys act like he's on some hall of fame stacked team. How do his teammates stack up vs previous teams to win 66+ games?

Is klay/bogut/draymond better than say...

Pippen/rodman/kukoc

Baylor/west/Goodrich

Mchale/parish/Johnson

Pierce/Garnett/Allen/rondo


People really putting the Warriors role players into lofty territory in an attempt to discredit curry

[stayeduptolate]

Curry is on pace for 70 wins and you guys act like he's on some hall of fame stacked team. How do his teammates stack up vs previous teams to win 66+ games?

Is klay/bogut/draymond better than say...

Pippen/rodman/kukoc

Baylor/west/Goodrich

Mchale/parish/Johnson

Pierce/Garnett/Allen/rondo


People really putting the Warriors role players into lofty territory in an attempt to discredit curry

this^^^^

[TaylorMonkey]

Curry is on pace for 70 wins and you guys act like he's on some hall of fame stacked team. How do his teammates stack up vs previous teams to win 66+ games?

Is klay/bogut/draymond better than say...

Pippen/rodman/kukoc

Baylor/west/Goodrich

Mchale/parish/Johnson

Pierce/Garnett/Allen/rondo


People really putting the Warriors role players into lofty territory in an attempt to discredit curry

And being on HOF stacked teams never hurt the MVPs on those HOF stacked teams.

Why is this a knock on Curry all of a sudden?

But if you believe the narrative, Klay, Draymond, and an injured Bogut are more stacked than a Rodman/Pippen/Kukoc or a McHale/Parish or a Kareem/Worthy.

And now they want to hand it to the player with the worse advanced stats on the SIXTH best team, instead of awarding the one with the best metrics in the league on the FIRST. It's horribly inconsistent with the past and a terrible narrative to disqualify Curry.

[_Game7_]

32pts 7ast 6rbs. Just another night in the office for the king.

[Dubeta]

Lol. Curry leads the league in +/- He's the most potent offensive player in the league. /quote]

Not only does he lead the league, he's currently on pace to shatter the single season raw +/- total record (96 Jordan +980). Steph is at +547 through 42 games, which is on pace for +1068 through 82 games.

go search for klay's +/- too then.

Klay is #2 in the league, but well behind at +485. The site I use has Curry at +553.

There are only 12 players in the league with half as many net points as Curry, and 4 of those are his teammates.
Of the top 13 in the league, 5 are Warriors, 5 are Clippers and 3 are Hawks.

wow and to think people in this thread think hes a role player and not a star...

[Dubeta]

Curry is on pace for 70 wins and you guys act like he's on some hall of fame stacked team. How do his teammates stack up vs previous teams to win 66+ games?

Is klay/bogut/draymond better than say...

Pippen/rodman/kukoc

Baylor/west/Goodrich

Mchale/parish/Johnson

Pierce/Garnett/Allen/rondo


People really putting the Warriors role players into lofty territory in an attempt to discredit curry

And being on HOF stacked teams never hurt the MVPs on those HOF stacked teams.

Why is this a knock on Curry all of a sudden?

But if you believe the narrative, Klay, Draymond, and an injured Bogut are more stacked than a Rodman/Pippen/Kukoc or a McHale/Parish or a Kareem/Worthy.

And now they want to hand it to the player with the worse advanced stats on the SIXTH best team, instead of awarding the one with the best metrics in the league on the FIRST. It's horribly inconsistent with the past and a terrible narrative to disqualify Curry.

guys like mj, lebron who had great teams were forced to play entire games and put the team right on their back. With curry, he can get quick rest with his team picking up the slack. Don't bring up stats on his game as many of them are flawed playing with klay, green out on the floor. This GSW is STACKED. Have you ever heard of the defensive player of the year being fought over by 2 people on the same team? Ever heard them playing with a top 2 SG? When you put Curry in there with a deep bench, this team might be more stacked than the bulls in terms of fire power. I can't recall a team that could be so deadly on the perimeter, score inside, move the ball so well in a system and have multiple defensive beasts that can lock you up.

[Bondman]

There really should be no MVP debate right now among people who are basically accepting of how the award typically works.

If you're starting by looking at value though, you have 2 options: 1) Curry or 2) Outright denial of any stats that give an actual glimpse of what impact a player has on his team's efficacy.

Except some people with actual ballots (and other media people) are saying Harden is the MVP right now, but what what do they know about how the award actually works.

But on the other hand I really like your "I know it better so stop debating" stance, quite funny seeing things like "there should be no debate" and "outright denial" thrown around when it's really a close race and it comes down to personal preferences which one you prefer (shown by said differing opinions of media/voting people).

I dunno if Doctor MJ was using hyperbole here. Personally, I'd prefer to say there is little MVP debate at the moment (but lots of ball left to play). Curry has *tremendous* historical precedence on his side and I see no evidence at all that voting behavior has changed in almost 60 years.

A couple pages back in post #1418, tredigs estimated that Curry would win 3/4 of all 1st-place votes. I don't know his methodology, but I ran a quick & dirty model and arrived at 76%. I have no idea if that will be the actual outcome. If so, Harden would have a difficult time getting even 20%. It doesn't seem particularly close to me right now, considering the difference in team record. It would become very, very, interesting if the Rockets moved up to the 2nd seed.

Anyways, if Pettit could win it in 1956 with a record of 33-39, anything is possible... just very unlikely.

[z_from_kc]

LeBron getting closer by the day...

[jinishima]

Too bad AD's teammates aren't very good, or he'd easily be my MVP for this season.

its not that they arent good, theyre is talent, its just HOW good AD has been this whole season

[Doctor MJ]

There really should be no MVP debate right now among people who are basically accepting of how the award typically works.

If you're starting by looking at value though, you have 2 options: 1) Curry or 2) Outright denial of any stats that give an actual glimpse of what impact a player has on his team's efficacy.

Except some people with actual ballots (and other media people) are saying Harden is the MVP right now, but what what do they know about how the award actually works.

But on the other hand I really like your "I know it better so stop debating" stance, quite funny seeing things like "there should be no debate" and "outright denial" thrown around when it's really a close race and it comes down to personal preferences which one you prefer (shown by said differing opinions of media/voting people).

I dunno if Doctor MJ was using hyperbole here. Personally, I'd prefer to say there is little MVP debate at the moment (but lots of ball left to play). Curry has *tremendous* historical precedence on his side and I see no evidence at all that voting behavior has changed in almost 60 years.

A couple pages back in post #1418, tredigs estimated that Curry would win 3/4 of all 1st-place votes. I don't know his methodology, but I ran a quick & dirty model and arrived at 76%. I have no idea if that will be the actual outcome. If so, Harden would have a difficult time getting even 20%. It doesn't seem particularly close to me right now, considering the difference in team record. It would become very, very, interesting if the Rockets moved up to the 2nd seed.

Anyways, if Pettit could win it in 1956 with a record of 33-39, anything is possible... just very unlikely.

I missed the earlier post so I'll respond to both here:

To WhatsHisName, I don't back off my statement at all. The fact that a voter is too ignorant to understand what I'm talking about does not mean he gets to decide how MVP "should" be determined. I'm personally one of the few guys who actually has always been a Harden fan so I'll be happy if he wins the MVP, but the actual justification for his MVP will undoubtedly come from people looking to denigrate Curry's role on the far more dominant Warriors, and there's no legit basis for doing this.

To Bondman, I'm fine with you calling it hyperbole. When I speak as I did above, it's not the language I'd use if I were, say, writing a blog post on the subject without doing far more build up. I'm being bold in my statement because I'm trying to briefly make a statement with force to emphasize that I feel particularly strongly no the matter:

Anyone skeptical of Curry's candidacy, needs to anchor their thinking on something less superficial.

[TheKingOfVa360]

Right now the MVP is Curry with Harden as a close number 2

[jangles86]

I think Lebron is on his way to making a serious claim for the mvp. He's easily the best player in the world.

[pipfan]

I agree that it is close, with Curry in a slight lead. AD still 3rd. LBJ should finish in the top five. I haven't watched since he's been back, but I have seen about 10 Cavs games before he was out and his D was BAD-like really lazy and detrimental to the team. Plus, it is most VALUABLE player, and his leadership (a big plus when Rose won in 2011) was poor.
I was shocked at how good Curry was on D vs. Rose last night for most of the night. Rose still beat him some, but he can get by anyone when he puts his mind to it. But Curry has come a long way on D. Plus, he's such a fun player and easy guy to root for (unlike Harden)

[stayeduptolate]

LBJ out again that will be 10 games missed already how many does he have to miss to not be in the running?

[Bondman]

LBJ out again that will be 10 games missed already how many does he have to miss to not be in the running?

Adjusted for an 82-game season, the average number of games played for all 59 MVPs rounds to 80.

Playing 69 games is about 3 SD, so I suggest that for a reasonable cutoff. Only Walton played less than that, and there were some serious extenuating circumstances for the 1978 season.

[Dat Gas]

LBJ doesnt really have a chance, lets be honest.

1) He's already missed 10 games (Its been 15 years since a player won MVP missing 10+ games)
2) Despite early season predictions of a 58-60 win season, they are 5th in the East and 13th in the NBA
3) Voters aren't going to go out of their way to justify him a 5th MVP when guys like Curry and Harden are playing so well
4) His numbers are down; lowest PPG and RPG since his rookie season, lowest fg% in 6 years and highest TOPG of his career.