NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21)

[kuclas]

That are 1 game above 500 against the west this year, double the games against the west and they are fighting for a playing spot.

Pretty obvious you don’t watch enough of healthy Sixers team . Read my post. I said when Sixers are healthy. That’s what happens when people just look at stats and won/lost. Read my post. When Sixers are healthy. They are really good. Against east and west.

Especially healthy Sixers starting team hasn’t lost home game since December 2019.

We are talking about reality, 76ers are 1 game above 500 against the west this year. You are talking about imagination, when healthy. The reality is tough competition in the West would more than likely to make their team more unhealthy.

Sixers are 31-11 when Embiid plays. 19 games missed. Health is a major factor. And Simmons has missed 12 games himself. If you want to compare real stats. Jamal Murray Denver’s second best player has missed 13 games (and counting) and Jokic has missed zero games. Counting Denver best two players. They would have combined to miss less total games even with Jamal Murray season ending injury than the Sixers Embiid and Simmons.

It’s health. Not the western conference. There are a lot of cupcake teams out in the western conference. Let’s not forget.

Again. You have a lot of bias. And I’m giving you real wins and losses when the teams best players play.

[dygaction]

Pretty obvious you don’t watch enough of healthy Sixers team . Read my post. I said when Sixers are healthy. That’s what happens when people just look at stats and won/lost. Read my post. When Sixers are healthy. They are really good. Against east and west.

Especially healthy Sixers starting team hasn’t lost home game since December 2019.

We are talking about reality, 76ers are 1 game above 500 against the west this year. You are talking about imagination, when healthy. The reality is tough competition in the West would more than likely to make their team more unhealthy.

Sixers are 31-11 when Embiid plays. 19 games missed. Health is a major factor. And Simmons has missed 12 games himself. If you want to compare real stats. Jamal Murray Denver’s second best player has missed 13 games (and counting) and Jokic has missed zero games. Counting Denver best two players. They would have combined to miss less total games even with Jamal Murray season ending injury than the Sixers Embiid and Simmons.

It’s health. Not the western conference. There are a lot of cupcake teams out in the western conference. Let’s not forget.

Again. You have a lot of bias. And I’m giving you real wins and losses when the teams best players play.

You are talking about selected data you want to present, I am talking about real world. As a Mavs fan, I have no interest in presenting IF Porzingis were healthy all the time how Mavs would play, sign, and trade differently. With Embiid as your franchise player, you just have to deal with he is as glassy as a player can be. He has played 251 games as of now after almost 7 seasons in the nba. As injury prone as Andrew Bynum, he had 392 games after 7 seasons. Bill Walton logged a comparable 223 games in first 7 seasons with two seasons out so he and his team had to deal with it in all time ranking and team achievement. Embiid is taking max salary and when he is suited up, of course the team is going to struggle, just like what happened to Warriors when Curry and Klay were out. What else would you expect? Unless you have someone like Jokic. With their top 3 rotation guards out, now Nuggets are starting with a 30 yr old, 5'10" rookie, a previous G league player in the past three years, and rotating with two other guards signed this month from their homes in Harrison and Rivers. They are still winning with Jokic running the offense and do it all. He does not have to use "if Murray was not injured".

[The Rebel]

Pretty obvious you don’t watch enough of healthy Sixers team . Read my post. I said when Sixers are healthy. That’s what happens when people just look at stats and won/lost. Read my post. When Sixers are healthy. They are really good. Against east and west.

Especially healthy Sixers starting team hasn’t lost home game since December 2019.

We are talking about reality, 76ers are 1 game above 500 against the west this year. You are talking about imagination, when healthy. The reality is tough competition in the West would more than likely to make their team more unhealthy.

Sixers are 31-11 when Embiid plays. 19 games missed. Health is a major factor. And Simmons has missed 12 games himself. If you want to compare real stats. Jamal Murray Denver’s second best player has missed 13 games (and counting) and Jokic has missed zero games. Counting Denver best two players. They would have combined to miss less total games even with Jamal Murray season ending injury than the Sixers Embiid and Simmons.

It’s health. Not the western conference. There are a lot of cupcake teams out in the western conference. Let’s not forget.

Again. You have a lot of bias. And I’m giving you real wins and losses when the teams best players play.

You are really accusing others of having bias while arguing that the 76ers would be better in the west and have less injuries? Lmao, I hate to be the one to tell you but Embiid would miss more games in the west, more travel, more good bigs to duck, and almost all yes have real centers so can't stat stuff as much.

[dygaction]

lol at people still talking up Jokic after recent performances of Curry & Paul

Jokicstans are looking ridiculous

After tonight, looks like AntiJokicStans need to gather under CP3.

[Jurassic_Park]

Looks like curry is now out of the race. Who will jokic haters look to now... maybe paul george?

Time to discuss who finishes 2nd now. Race is done as it was a while ago

[Infinite Llamas]

Looks like curry is now out of the race. Who will jokic haters look to now... maybe paul george?

Time to discuss who finishes 2nd now. Race is done as it was a while ago

My prediction is they try Kyrie next. They really are getting desperate now.

[DCasey91]

I think Doncic/Giannis has more of an argument then Curry/Embiid but that’s just me.

1. Jokic
2. Canyon Sized Gap (F it he’s a player idc now)
3. Giannis/Doncic

Doesn’t seem far fetched at all.

[dygaction]

I think Doncic/Giannis has more of an argument then Curry/Embiid but that’s just me.

1. Jokic
2. Canyon Sized Gap (F it he’s a player idc now)
3. Giannis/Doncic

Doesn’t seem far fetched at all.

NBA.com had Embiid 2, Giannis 3, Luka 4, and Curry 5, so you are not alone. 76ers without Embiid (9w-10l) was no better than 76ers without Simmons (5w-7l). With Embiid resting/missing more games, it is reasonable to move him behind.

[BelgradeNugget]

But, but, but Jokic can't be MVP because he can't jump over a phonebook.
Oh, no phonebooks don't exist anymore.

[Sharkboy242]

Mvp curry!

[AdagioPace]

mvp candidates and pretenders come and go this season,.....there's only one single constant (and this is what MVP is all about, after all)

[yannisk]

Looks like curry is now out of the race. Who will jokic haters look to now...

There are no Jokic haters just irrational fans of lesser players

[Johnny Tomala]

It was over long ago. I had Jokic from the first poll in this thread. It's just media talking. Curry was never in the race. The only players that were in the race were aside from Jokic - Embiid, James and Harden. But injuries forced them to be out of this race. Congrats to Jokic for winning the MVP.

[The Rebel]

Looks like curry is now out of the race. Who will jokic haters look to now... maybe paul george?

Time to discuss who finishes 2nd now. Race is done as it was a while ago

My prediction is they try Kyrie next. They really are getting desperate now.

Sadly I saw a post on reddit this morning pushing that Kyrie should be in the conversation.

[Lamak]

jokic is mvp but i have chris paul 2nd and embiid 3rd on my list

[Kurtz]

Read on Twitter

[Doctor MJ]

He leads by a 23% margin in RPM wins. That's fair to call it as a country-mile stat wise, no? Lebron has a miniscule lead on him on RPM per-game. Gobert is a solid 3rd there. Curry is 1st in offensive EPM as well. He's 2nd in VORP/BPM to Joker. He's right there. Jokic is my MVP (feel like I need to say it for the 35th time this thread), but Curry is catching up.

I have to say, as someone who has been using +/- stats seriously for 15 years, I really struggle to take RPM at all seriously. I had philosophical issues with it from the jump, but the way they just keep changing the formula, resulting in glaring changes, without ever explaining exactly what they're doing is a) a major problem in its own right and b) characteristic of Englemann's lack of basketball analysis common sense that he's always had.

The stat I'm using right now along these lines - and granted, that could change - is bball-index's LEBRON.

https://www.bball-index.com/2020-21-lebron-data/

By that stat, if you go by Wins Added, the leaderboard is:

1. Jokic
2. Gobert
3. Giannis
4. Steph

That ordering feels pretty reasonable to me.

[Kobe187]

Gobert shouldn’t be anywhere near the top 5, this isn’t the DPOY award, he’s arguably not even the MVP on his own team as that’s probably Mitchell.

[Kobe187]

1. Jokic
2. Curry
3. Giannis
4. Embiid
5. Doncic

[Dutchball97]

He leads by a 23% margin in RPM wins. That's fair to call it as a country-mile stat wise, no? Lebron has a miniscule lead on him on RPM per-game. Gobert is a solid 3rd there. Curry is 1st in offensive EPM as well. He's 2nd in VORP/BPM to Joker. He's right there. Jokic is my MVP (feel like I need to say it for the 35th time this thread), but Curry is catching up.

I have to say, as someone who has been using +/- stats seriously for 15 years, I really struggle to take RPM at all seriously. I had philosophical issues with it from the jump, but the way they just keep changing the formula, resulting in glaring changes, without ever explaining exactly what they're doing is a) a major problem in its own right and b) characteristic of Englemann's lack of basketball analysis common sense that he's always had.

The stat I'm using right now along these lines - and granted, that could change - is bball-index's LEBRON.

https://www.bball-index.com/2020-21-lebron-data/

By that stat, if you go by Wins Added, the leaderboard is:

1. Jokic
2. Gobert
3. Giannis
4. Steph

That ordering feels pretty reasonable to me.

Do you know why LEBRON seems to like Tatum so much? He's tied with Curry for wins added but he's only 38th in WS, 19th in VORP and 20th in RAPTOR WAR. Seems like a strange outlier but I have no clue what causes it.