NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 3)

[AussieBuck]

This your MVP eyeatoma?

Yup... Your post not aging well there lol.

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Giannis had a stinker and Embiid got outplayed by Brook Lopez lol. Not really one to clap back on brah.

[GiannisAnte34]

This your MVP eyeatoma?

Yup... Your post not aging well there lol.

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Getting carried by your running mate is now sufficient to be in the MVP mix?

[AussieCeltic]

As good as Embiids counting stats were, he was exposed again on the pick and pop by shooting C’s. Bucks had open looks from 3 all game because he was camping in the key. Lopez had 26 points on 16 shots.

The Sixers made their run with him on the bench and he ended with a -7 in a 3 point victory.

Nothing to really expose. You can't expect a 7 footer to chase on the three point line and man a drop coverage defense. The Bucks have Loped who is basically one of the big men players in the league who can do this.

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Horford killed him only 2 games ago as well. Philly will more than likely have to go through both to make it to the finals.

[eyeatoma]

This your MVP eyeatoma?

Yup... Your post not aging well there lol.

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Getting carried by your running mate is now sufficient to be in the MVP mix?

Jrue been carrying Giannis all season. Even the altar boy Jokic had bad games. Difference is Embiid can make up a middling offensive game with DPOY level defense, unlike some MVP candidates.

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[GiannisAnte34]

Yup... Your post not aging well there lol.

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Getting carried by your running mate is now sufficient to be in the MVP mix?

Jrue been carrying Giannis all season. Even the altor boy Jokic had bad games. Difference is Embiid can make up a middling offensive game with DPOY level defense, unlike some MVP candidates.

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Embiid certainly didn’t display DPOY level defense in this game. Lopez dropped 26 on 16 shots. Embiid wasn’t efficient either

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Anyway, I am more and more convinced the impact of every drop center can be heavily limited by a 5 out offense. And if he can't move his feet in space he can even become a target.
Jokic can be taken advantage in the post season, but he's not the only one.

I still think that Joel would be better off cutting some weight, reduce his usage and focus on his defense and mobility.

[eyeatoma]

Getting carried by your running mate is now sufficient to be in the MVP mix?

Jrue been carrying Giannis all season. Even the altor boy Jokic had bad games. Difference is Embiid can make up a middling offensive game with DPOY level defense, unlike some MVP candidates.

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

Embiid certainly didn’t display DPOY level defense in this game. Lopez dropped 26 on 16 shots. Embiid wasn’t efficient either

Did you watch the 4th quarter where he locked up Giannis?

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[eyeatoma]

As good as Embiids counting stats were, he was exposed again on the pick and pop by shooting C’s. Bucks had open looks from 3 all game because he was camping in the key. Lopez had 26 points on 16 shots.

The Sixers made their run with him on the bench and he ended with a -7 in a 3 point victory.

Nothing to really expose. You can't expect a 7 footer to chase on the three point line and man a drop coverage defense. The Bucks have Loped who is basically one of the big men players in the league who can do this.

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

Horford killed him only 2 games ago as well. Philly will more than likely have to go through both to make it to the finals.

Horford had a freak 6 3 pointer game. Those are pretty rare. Embiid absolutely destroyed Horford in that game. Also, Embiid wasn't on Horford for all those 3s either.

[Statlanta]

Anyway, I am more and more convinced the impact of every drop center can be heavily limited by a 5 out offense. And if he can't move his feet in space he can even become a target.
Jokic can be taken advantage in the post season, but he's not the only one.

I still think that Joel would be better off cutting some weight, reduce his usage and focus on his defense and mobility.

The irony is that Joel has never faced these drop defense killer PGs in a playoff series. No Steph, No CP3, No Dame, not even a Kyrie.

Kyle Lowry and Marcus Smart aren’t going to spam Embiid to death like a HOF PG would.

[kuclas]

Anyway, I am more and more convinced the impact of every drop center can be heavily limited by a 5 out offense. And if he can't move his feet in space he can even become a target.
Jokic can be taken advantage in the post season, but he's not the only one.

I still think that Joel would be better off cutting some weight, reduce his usage and focus on his defense and mobility.

Embiid drops down because he can defend the paint. If he pushes forward. This opens up even more space for other teams to have cutters for wide open layups if he’s not there.

Cutters won’t dare come near the paint with embiid there

So it’s a catch-22 for sixers defensive scheme. They don’t have enough long wing defenders to help cover if embiid cuts off the opposition near the 3 point line.

Yes embiid did it early in his career. We seen him guard someone quick like kyrie irving 1:1 in 3 point space and keep up with kyrie and deter
Shots

But that takes a ton of energy on the defensive end.

You know when embiid wants to play defense these days. And he really does. But he just can’t be chasing out guys on the 3 point line and cross covering the paint. With his offensive load. No one can really stop embiid on the offensive end either. But embiid may be better off deferring to harden or maxey in the last 3 minutes of close games on offense and focus on defense. That’s a better strategy.

It’s hard for a true 5 to play defense and offense.

Guys who play mainly the 4 slot like Giannis get away with slacking and being more help defenders cause they got a true 5 like Lopez to occupy space in the paint. But look what happen last night. Lopez dropped down in coverage and left embiid wide open for the 3 pointer that gave the sixers the lead. That’s just the way the nba works these days. Bigs making 3 point shots. Lopez did it all night making shots as well

Embiid doesn’t have that luxury. He does have 6 foot 5 pj tucker who can harass some bigs. That helps now.

[Bum Adebayo]

Embiid had 10 AST and 1 TO, we like to mention asists from other players but when Embiid plays the right way on offense, it goes unnoticed, while Giannis had 4 AST 7 TO and he needed more FT to score, which is always the main complain about Embiid.
And better not talk about +/-, as Giannis doesn't look good there, I still think it's a meaningless stat most of the time anyway.

[kuclas]

Embiid had 10 AST and 1 TO, we like to mention asists from other players but when Embiid plays the right way on offense, it goes unnoticed, while Giannis had 4 AST 7 TO and he needed more FT to score, which is always the main complain about Embiid.
And better not talk about +/-, as Giannis doesn't look good there, I still think it's a meaningless stat most of the time anyway.

Embiid is one of the very few who can defend Giannis 1:1. Of course embiid will give Giannis space to shoot and dare hjm.

But it’s really hard for Giannis to go around embiid into the paint. He did it a couple. Of the times including the nice left handed layup toward end of the half.

I don’t think anyone can defend embiid 1:1 in the paint these days. That’s why I wish they get rid of illegal defense. Embiid would destroy almost every defense if they brought back illegal defense. No more hedge help defenders lurking in the paint. Or his assist numbers would go up double with wide open shooters.

[Cubbies2120]

James Harden when playing like last night should be the Sixers MVP candidate. If he is capable of being the #1 on the Sixers and Embiid takes a back seat and focuses on defense…Sixers come out of the East.

Is Embiid willing to do that? We know other MVP candidates are fine shooting under 15 shots a game…

[Cubbies2120]

Nothing to really expose. You can't expect a 7 footer to chase on the three point line and man a drop coverage defense. The Bucks have Loped who is basically one of the big men players in the league who can do this.

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Horford killed him only 2 games ago as well. Philly will more than likely have to go through both to make it to the finals.

Horford had a freak 6 3 pointer game. Those are pretty rare. Embiid absolutely destroyed Horford in that game. Also, Embiid wasn't on Horford for all those 3s either.

“You can’t expect a 7 footer to chase on 3 point line and man a drop coverage defense” - I’m glad you agree, so let’s talk about Nuggets vs Warriors last year that Embiid fans loved to talk about - are you saying it’s not a fair expectation for a 7 footer to have to chase Curry, Poole and Klay? I’m glad you’re coming around

[yoyoboy]

1. Jokic
2. Giannis
3. Embiid
4. Tatum
5. Doncic
6. Lillard
7. Garland
8. Sabonis
9. SGA
10. Butler

[CharityStripe34]

I'm always keen on how elite players respond after a tough loss. Jokic had a huge game after losing to the Sixers a little over a month ago. I'm thinking Gianni's going to go a little extra hard defensively (as is the rest of the team) tonight after letting up 48 points in the 4th. Tatum and the Celtics also have a game tonight after a brutal loss in similar fashion.

[AleksandarN]

Heres an interesting numbers game about TS%.

Rudy Gobert had a 70% TS in 2019-20 averaging 15.1 points on 8.2 FGA

Jokic this year is posting a 70% TS% averaging 24.6 on 14.8 FGA (lowest or 2nd lowest since he became a star)

Giannis this year is posting 60% TS% averaging 31.3 on 20.7 FGA ( highest in his career)

Jokic efficiency rose while shooting 2.9 less shots on average compared to last year where he had 66%TS.


Compared to last year Jokic raw production fell hence why his efficiency rose.

This however doesn't make Jokic last year better because his raw production dropped but because a portion of it translated into him playmaking and passing more when his roster is much healthier.



This one of example on how taking advanced stats and especially TS% and trying to single it out but itself its either misleading because Jokic just shifted his game into different focus while dropping usage by 4 %, rebounding and raw scoring.


This is why when i see people freaking out about 70% TS it means absolutely nothing.

This is why when i see people saying that Giannis is having a down year is flat out wrong.

For the record, i do believe Jokic this year is better than last year.

Again context matters. The amount of shots and types matter. So throwing in Gobert’s ts is disingenuous. I expected you to discuss and debate in good faith. Just like you did with calling out plus minus stats

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[AleksandarN]

Yup... Your post not aging well there lol.

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Getting carried by your running mate is now sufficient to be in the MVP mix?

Jrue been carrying Giannis all season. Even the altar boy Jokic had bad games. Difference is Embiid can make up a middling offensive game with DPOY level defense, unlike some MVP candidates.

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Yeah like the one time he shot under 50 percent.

[MavsDirk41]

Yup... Your post not aging well there lol.

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

Getting carried by your running mate is now sufficient to be in the MVP mix?

Jrue been carrying Giannis all season. Even the altar boy Jokic had bad games. Difference is Embiid can make up a middling offensive game with DPOY level defense, unlike some MVP candidates.

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

Holiday has been great but he has not been carrying Giannis lol. Come on man. Giannis has been great this year. Joker is #44 in the nba in shot attempts - he is a point center who sets up the offense. His rebounding and passing are more important than his offense. Embiid has been terrific too but he is behind Joker and Giannis in mvp voting to me.

[AussieCeltic]

Horford killed him only 2 games ago as well. Philly will more than likely have to go through both to make it to the finals.

Horford had a freak 6 3 pointer game. Those are pretty rare. Embiid absolutely destroyed Horford in that game. Also, Embiid wasn't on Horford for all those 3s either.

“You can’t expect a 7 footer to chase on 3 point line and man a drop coverage defense” - I’m glad you agree, so let’s talk about Nuggets vs Warriors last year that Embiid fans loved to talk about - are you saying it’s not a fair expectation for a 7 footer to have to chase Curry, Poole and Klay? I’m glad you’re coming around

I’ve been setting this take up for awhile and he finally fell right into it. Check mate.