NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 3)

[Wolfgang630]

Remember when Luka was considered as a top candidate for MVP? Pepperidge Farm remembers

[Exp0sed]

Getting carried by your running mate is now sufficient to be in the MVP mix?

Jrue been carrying Giannis all season. Even the altar boy Jokic had bad games. Difference is Embiid can make up a middling offensive game with DPOY level defense, unlike some MVP candidates.

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Holiday has been great but he has not been carrying Giannis lol. Come on man. Giannis has been great this year. Joker is #44 in the nba in shot attempts - he is a point center who sets up the offense. His rebounding and passing are more important than his offense. Embiid has been terrific too but he is behind Joker and Giannis in mvp voting to me.

right, his offense is so redundant that the Nuggets turn from an historically great offensive team with him, to the worst offense in the NBA without him

100%

[eyeatoma]

Getting carried by your running mate is now sufficient to be in the MVP mix?

Jrue been carrying Giannis all season. Even the altar boy Jokic had bad games. Difference is Embiid can make up a middling offensive game with DPOY level defense, unlike some MVP candidates.

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Holiday has been great but he has not been carrying Giannis lol. Come on man. Giannis has been great this year. Joker is #44 in the nba in shot attempts - he is a point center who sets up the offense. His rebounding and passing are more important than his offense. Embiid has been terrific too but he is behind Joker and Giannis in mvp voting to me.

This was Jrue's first all-star appearance since he was with Philly. He's having a career year. Giannis had the worst start to his career for a long time. He's also missed a bunch of games. Jrue has definitely been carrying Giannis at times. Obviously Giannis is better, no one is saying that. Just like Embiid is better than Harden. Ya'll acting like number twos don't occasionally have better games then their superstar players.

[eyeatoma]

Horford killed him only 2 games ago as well. Philly will more than likely have to go through both to make it to the finals.

Horford had a freak 6 3 pointer game. Those are pretty rare. Embiid absolutely destroyed Horford in that game. Also, Embiid wasn't on Horford for all those 3s either.

“You can’t expect a 7 footer to chase on 3 point line and man a drop coverage defense” - I’m glad you agree, so let’s talk about Nuggets vs Warriors last year that Embiid fans loved to talk about - are you saying it’s not a fair expectation for a 7 footer to have to chase Curry, Poole and Klay? I’m glad you’re coming around

LMAO, the difference is that's one of Embiid's only weakness. While with Jokic he get's absolutely murdered on PnR defense, which teams exploit in the playoffs. He has not weakside shot blocking, and is a terrible man defender. It's apples to oranges when comparing Jokic's and Embiid's defense, stop trying to prove a point and create an excuse for why Jokic is allowed to lose to the Warriors. If you're a 3 time MVP, and are have "statistically the greatest 3 seasons of all time" you need to be making the finals and winning chips. If you're team is good enough to win games in the regular season, they need to be just as good in the playoffs. No excuses.

[Cubbies2120]

stop trying to prove a point and create an excuse for why Jokic is allowed to lose to the Warriors. If you're a 3 time MVP, and are have "statistically the greatest 3 seasons of all time" you need to be making the finals and winning chips. If you're team is good enough to win games in the regular season, they need to be just as good in the playoffs. No excuses.

Last year he absolutely had an excuse for losing to the best team in the NBA...he was missing two max players...so there's no need to "create an excuse", nobody with a brain expected them to win that series. Nor is there any MVP in NBA history who could have beat the Warriors with that cast...

Jokic's defense is not bad by any stretch of the imagination...everyone has a weak spot on defense, as you just said with Embiid. If Jokic didn't have a defensive weakness he'd be the best player of all time...

[eyeatoma]

stop trying to prove a point and create an excuse for why Jokic is allowed to lose to the Warriors. If you're a 3 time MVP, and are have "statistically the greatest 3 seasons of all time" you need to be making the finals and winning chips. If you're team is good enough to win games in the regular season, they need to be just as good in the playoffs. No excuses.

Last year he absolutely had an excuse for losing to the best team in the NBA...he was missing two max players...so there's no need to "create an excuse", nobody with a brain expected them to win that series. Nor is there any MVP in NBA history who could have beat the Warriors with that cast...

Jokic's defense is not bad by any stretch of the imagination...everyone has a weak spot on defense, as you just said with Embiid. If Jokic didn't have a defensive weakness he'd be the best player of all time...

Jokic is an average defender, where Embiid is an elite defender. The differences are massive. Also, should we just now assume that the MVP is useless in determining how good a player is? The playoffs are so different that even if you have the best player in the league you're not going to win in the playoffs with such a bad team? Explain to me how LeBron James made the finals with the Cavs against the spurs with an even worse team that what Jokic had then.

[AussieCeltic]

Horford had a freak 6 3 pointer game. Those are pretty rare. Embiid absolutely destroyed Horford in that game. Also, Embiid wasn't on Horford for all those 3s either.

“You can’t expect a 7 footer to chase on 3 point line and man a drop coverage defense” - I’m glad you agree, so let’s talk about Nuggets vs Warriors last year that Embiid fans loved to talk about - are you saying it’s not a fair expectation for a 7 footer to have to chase Curry, Poole and Klay? I’m glad you’re coming around

LMAO, the difference is that's one of Embiid's only weakness. While with Jokic he get's absolutely murdered on PnR defense, which teams exploit in the playoffs. He has not weakside shot blocking, and is a terrible man defender. It's apples to oranges when comparing Jokic's and Embiid's defense, stop trying to prove a point and create an excuse for why Jokic is allowed to lose to the Warriors. If you're a 3 time MVP, and are have "statistically the greatest 3 seasons of all time" you need to be making the finals and winning chips. If you're team is good enough to win games in the regular season, they need to be just as good in the playoffs. No excuses.

Stop making excuses for Embiid then. He’s consistently been in the running for MVP but can’t even make it out of the second round. Not even once!

[eyeatoma]

“You can’t expect a 7 footer to chase on 3 point line and man a drop coverage defense” - I’m glad you agree, so let’s talk about Nuggets vs Warriors last year that Embiid fans loved to talk about - are you saying it’s not a fair expectation for a 7 footer to have to chase Curry, Poole and Klay? I’m glad you’re coming around

LMAO, the difference is that's one of Embiid's only weakness. While with Jokic he get's absolutely murdered on PnR defense, which teams exploit in the playoffs. He has not weakside shot blocking, and is a terrible man defender. It's apples to oranges when comparing Jokic's and Embiid's defense, stop trying to prove a point and create an excuse for why Jokic is allowed to lose to the Warriors. If you're a 3 time MVP, and are have "statistically the greatest 3 seasons of all time" you need to be making the finals and winning chips. If you're team is good enough to win games in the regular season, they need to be just as good in the playoffs. No excuses.

Stop making excuses for Embiid then. He’s consistently been in the running for MVP but can’t even make it out of the second round. Not even once!

Umm, one is about to win his 3rd MVP, the other hasn't. One had his star player have the greatest drop off in NBA history, the other hasn't. One has been constantly injured every playoffs of his career the other hasn't. One has Doc Rivers, the other doesn't. One had James Harden do his annual disappearing act, the other didn't. Want me to keep going? No, you get the point. Those are actual excuses.

[AussieCeltic]

LMAO, the difference is that's one of Embiid's only weakness. While with Jokic he get's absolutely murdered on PnR defense, which teams exploit in the playoffs. He has not weakside shot blocking, and is a terrible man defender. It's apples to oranges when comparing Jokic's and Embiid's defense, stop trying to prove a point and create an excuse for why Jokic is allowed to lose to the Warriors. If you're a 3 time MVP, and are have "statistically the greatest 3 seasons of all time" you need to be making the finals and winning chips. If you're team is good enough to win games in the regular season, they need to be just as good in the playoffs. No excuses.

Stop making excuses for Embiid then. He’s consistently been in the running for MVP but can’t even make it out of the second round. Not even once!

Umm, one is about to win his 3rd MVP, the other hasn't. One had his star player have the greatest drop off in NBA history, the other hasn't. One has been constantly injured every playoffs of his career the other hasn't. One has Doc Rivers, the other doesn't. One had James Harden do his annual disappearing act, the other didn't. Want me to keep going? No, you get the point. Those are actual excuses.

The mental gymnastics are exhausting with you bro. Embiid has had far better and healthier teammates his whole career and it ain’t even close.

[Cubbies2120]

LMAO, the difference is that's one of Embiid's only weakness. While with Jokic he get's absolutely murdered on PnR defense, which teams exploit in the playoffs. He has not weakside shot blocking, and is a terrible man defender. It's apples to oranges when comparing Jokic's and Embiid's defense, stop trying to prove a point and create an excuse for why Jokic is allowed to lose to the Warriors. If you're a 3 time MVP, and are have "statistically the greatest 3 seasons of all time" you need to be making the finals and winning chips. If you're team is good enough to win games in the regular season, they need to be just as good in the playoffs. No excuses.

Stop making excuses for Embiid then. He’s consistently been in the running for MVP but can’t even make it out of the second round. Not even once!

Umm, one is about to win his 3rd MVP, the other hasn't. One had his star player have the greatest drop off in NBA history, the other hasn't. One has been constantly injured every playoffs of his career the other hasn't. One has Doc Rivers, the other doesn't. One had James Harden do his annual disappearing act, the other didn't. Want me to keep going? No, you get the point. Those are actual excuses.

Lmao if Harden has "annual disappearing acts", what do you call Embiid's annual summertime dropoff? Soon as the playoffs start, his numbers drop...does that happen to Jokic? No, he actually improves on his regular season...which very few superstars do.

[Cubbies2120]

stop trying to prove a point and create an excuse for why Jokic is allowed to lose to the Warriors. If you're a 3 time MVP, and are have "statistically the greatest 3 seasons of all time" you need to be making the finals and winning chips. If you're team is good enough to win games in the regular season, they need to be just as good in the playoffs. No excuses.

Last year he absolutely had an excuse for losing to the best team in the NBA...he was missing two max players...so there's no need to "create an excuse", nobody with a brain expected them to win that series. Nor is there any MVP in NBA history who could have beat the Warriors with that cast...

Jokic's defense is not bad by any stretch of the imagination...everyone has a weak spot on defense, as you just said with Embiid. If Jokic didn't have a defensive weakness he'd be the best player of all time...

Jokic is an average defender, where Embiid is an elite defender. The differences are massive. Also, should we just now assume that the MVP is useless in determining how good a player is? The playoffs are so different that even if you have the best player in the league you're not going to win in the playoffs with such a bad team? Explain to me how LeBron James made the finals with the Cavs against the spurs with an even worse team that what Jokic had then.

Let's remember how Embiid got swept without his 2nd best player back in 2020...literally couldn't win a game, against a team who didn't make the Finals...Jokic took one game off the best team in the NBA, while missing not just his 2nd best but also 3rd best player.

[Wolfgang630]

I feel like out of all the superstar players who played against the Warriors last postseason, Jokic did the best of them all

[eyeatoma]

Stop making excuses for Embiid then. He’s consistently been in the running for MVP but can’t even make it out of the second round. Not even once!

Umm, one is about to win his 3rd MVP, the other hasn't. One had his star player have the greatest drop off in NBA history, the other hasn't. One has been constantly injured every playoffs of his career the other hasn't. One has Doc Rivers, the other doesn't. One had James Harden do his annual disappearing act, the other didn't. Want me to keep going? No, you get the point. Those are actual excuses.

Lmao if Harden has "annual disappearing acts", what do you call Embiid's annual summertime dropoff? Soon as the playoffs start, his numbers drop...does that happen to Jokic? No, he actually improves on his regular season...which very few superstars do.

Take a look at Embiid's plus minus in the playoffs and compare it to Jokic.

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[eyeatoma]

Stop making excuses for Embiid then. He’s consistently been in the running for MVP but can’t even make it out of the second round. Not even once!

Umm, one is about to win his 3rd MVP, the other hasn't. One had his star player have the greatest drop off in NBA history, the other hasn't. One has been constantly injured every playoffs of his career the other hasn't. One has Doc Rivers, the other doesn't. One had James Harden do his annual disappearing act, the other didn't. Want me to keep going? No, you get the point. Those are actual excuses.

The mental gymnastics are exhausting with you bro. Embiid has had far better and healthier teammates his whole career and it ain’t even close.

Really? Been Simmons missed a whole playoff series during the bubble.

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[UcanUwill]

Remember when Luka was considered as a top candidate for MVP? Pepperidge Farm remembers

I think its been third preseason in a row where he was a favorite. Just aint happening with such a wack team.

[scrabbarista]

stop trying to prove a point and create an excuse for why Jokic is allowed to lose to the Warriors. If you're a 3 time MVP, and are have "statistically the greatest 3 seasons of all time" you need to be making the finals and winning chips. If you're team is good enough to win games in the regular season, they need to be just as good in the playoffs. No excuses.

Last year he absolutely had an excuse for losing to the best team in the NBA...he was missing two max players...so there's no need to "create an excuse", nobody with a brain expected them to win that series. Nor is there any MVP in NBA history who could have beat the Warriors with that cast...

Jokic's defense is not bad by any stretch of the imagination...everyone has a weak spot on defense, as you just said with Embiid. If Jokic didn't have a defensive weakness he'd be the best player of all time...

Jokic is an average defender, where Embiid is an elite defender. The differences are massive. Also, should we just now assume that the MVP is useless in determining how good a player is? The playoffs are so different that even if you have the best player in the league you're not going to win in the playoffs with such a bad team? Explain to me how LeBron James made the finals with the Cavs against the spurs with an even worse team that what Jokic had then.

Bad example, eyeatoma. Both players lost when they ran into the eventual champions. (The difference is LeBron put up 22/7/7 with 6 TO's on .356/.200/.690 against the champs and got swept, while Jokic put up 31/13/6 with 5 TO's on .575/.278/.848 against the champs in five games.)

To explain: LeBron made the Finals because the Mavericks, Spurs, and Suns (and Jazz and Rockets) played in the West. In the West, Cleveland would've been the sixth seed with their 50 wins and would've had to beat three teams with a better record to reach the Finals. In the East, they were the second seed and only had to beat the #1 seeded 53 win Pistons to make it out. In fact, the #3 Spurs would've been Cleveland's First Round opponent in the West. Sometimes how far you go depends a lot on who you play along the way.

[AussieCeltic]

Umm, one is about to win his 3rd MVP, the other hasn't. One had his star player have the greatest drop off in NBA history, the other hasn't. One has been constantly injured every playoffs of his career the other hasn't. One has Doc Rivers, the other doesn't. One had James Harden do his annual disappearing act, the other didn't. Want me to keep going? No, you get the point. Those are actual excuses.

The mental gymnastics are exhausting with you bro. Embiid has had far better and healthier teammates his whole career and it ain’t even close.

Really? Been Simmons missed a whole playoff series during the bubble.

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How about no Murray and MPJ last season? He still got a game off the NBA champs.

How about no Murray the year before? He still made it to the second round against the NBA finalist suns. MPJ was only in his second season.

Embiid got swept in the first round with no Simmons with an average +\- of -13.5 per game.

[Cubbies2120]

Umm, one is about to win his 3rd MVP, the other hasn't. One had his star player have the greatest drop off in NBA history, the other hasn't. One has been constantly injured every playoffs of his career the other hasn't. One has Doc Rivers, the other doesn't. One had James Harden do his annual disappearing act, the other didn't. Want me to keep going? No, you get the point. Those are actual excuses.

Lmao if Harden has "annual disappearing acts", what do you call Embiid's annual summertime dropoff? Soon as the playoffs start, his numbers drop...does that happen to Jokic? No, he actually improves on his regular season...which very few superstars do.

Take a look at Embiid's plus minus in the playoffs and compare it to Jokic.

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So just to make sure I understand, your argument for Embiid vs. Jokic is plus/minus in the playoffs? So you're admitting +- is an important stat? Because I'd like us to remember this in this regular season MVP thread as well.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/nba-leaders-in-plus-minus

Had to scroll down to the bottom of front page list to find Embiid's name

[Wolfgang630]

Umm, one is about to win his 3rd MVP, the other hasn't. One had his star player have the greatest drop off in NBA history, the other hasn't. One has been constantly injured every playoffs of his career the other hasn't. One has Doc Rivers, the other doesn't. One had James Harden do his annual disappearing act, the other didn't. Want me to keep going? No, you get the point. Those are actual excuses.

The mental gymnastics are exhausting with you bro. Embiid has had far better and healthier teammates his whole career and it ain’t even close.

Really? Been Simmons missed a whole playoff series during the bubble.

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Just like Jokic was missing MPJ and Murray…

[ReddoverKobe]

New vote, the white mamba, austin reaves