76ers back to fining Ben Simmons

[Nuntius]

Question to you and anyone who feels Morey should be fired: do you think any of the packages he could've gotten would improved the team enough to be a legitimate contender? Because if not, then he'd still be wasting Embiid's prime. I just don't see Brogdon or McCollum + picks elevating the sixers to contender status. Morey has no obligation to trade Simmons if it wont improve the team.

As far as the implications of this situation, I think it will be one of the major catalysts towards changes to the next CBA.

Yes, the Sixers would be legitimate contenders if they had completed some of the deals that were rumored this summer. The fact is that Embiid and Simmons never fit well together. Simmons' utter lack of range doesn't fit well with a Center like Embiid. McCollum may not be as good of an overall player as Simmons is but his fit with Embiid is 10 times better and that's what should matter here.

Embiid is a top 10 (if not top 5) player. He is the one that the Sixers should be building around. What the Sixers lacked last year in their loss to the Hawks was shot creation. The Hawks had a plethora of players who could create their own shot. They had Trae, their star, but they also had players like Bogdanović, Gallo and Huerter who could create their own when the situation called for it. Heck, Huerter's 27 kinda won them that game 7.

The Sixers had Embiid, their star, and then Tobias and Seth Curry. Those were the 3 guys who took the majority of the shots. Ben Simmons attempted less shots (45) than Furkan Korkmaz (48) despite the fact that he played 242 minutes to Kormaz's 139. Heck, Lou Williams, who only played 98 minutes for the Hawks, attempted 41 shots, only 4 shots less than Simmons did. Again, Simmons played 242 minutes. And, yes, shot creation isn't all about shooting on your own. You can create for others and Simmons did do that (he had 60 assists). But when the defense knows that you aren't going to shoot the ball and that your intend is to pass then they are free to play for that pass and snuff out passing lanes. That kind of lack of scoring threat destroys a ball-handler's gravity. Ben is basically a reverse Steph. Steph's gravity creates passing lanes out of nowhere whereas Ben's utter lack of gravity snuffs out passing lanes that normally would be there.

There's no doubt in my mind that the Sixers would have made the ECF last year if they had someone like McCollum (CJ is an example here, I'm only using him because he was one of the rumored deals and you mentioned him as well) instead of Simmons.

We will just have to agree to disagree here. A deal centered around Brogdon or McCollum imo would make the team worse than last year imo, the loss of Simmons' defense and playmaking would off-set what they gain in spacing and fit from either of those guys.

Yeah, we can definitely agree to disagree. I believe that Thybulle can make up for the loss of Simmons defensively. And as for Simmons' playmaking, that's something that doesn't really exist at the end of playoff games so is it really a loss?

[Nuntius]

The Hawks were the 5th seed last year and they are 11th this year. All three teams (Bucks, Suns, Hawks) are getting overrated simply because everyone else was injured in the last playoffs. Had the Nets been somewhat healthy, the Bucks would be out in the second round, it wouldnt even be close.

Meh. Injuries are a part of the game and you can only beat who you're playing. These 3 teams went far in the playoffs in their own merit and deserve credit for it.

Simmons bad performance contributed of course to the loss, but lets not kidd ourselves. You dont go from losing to this Hawks team to becoming a champio by replacing Simmons with CJ or Siakam.

How so? What if some of the other contenders have injury issues again? Wouldn't the Sixers be in the perfect position to capitalize?

If anything you become worse. Simmons is a bad overall fit but he had found his niche in the team. Defender, playmaker, rebounder and without the need to get a lot of touches. In that regard it is a good fit, he is not a good fit as a max player when your best player is a center. However, the Sixers dont need some more middling offensive threats, they have enough with Curry, Harris, Maxey etc. What they need is a shot creator that can play that role efficiently at the highest level, otherwise Simmons all around game might be better than another guy that will want touches without being very good at it (e.g. CJ)

If McCollum isn't a shot creator then who are you looking at? Who are you hoping that the Sixers can get? Who is that player you're talking about? Is it realistic for this player to be a Sixer within a year? If not, then the Sixers are just wasting Embiid's prime.

Simmons by himself is not the issue, he is not ideal but his all aound game is valuable in a vacuum. Simmons as a max player on a team without a great perimeter player is a problem but breaking him into a couple average/above average players will not solve anything. Embiid's positional limitations and his inability to play heavy minutes, while maintaining his level of play, in the postseason makes it necessary for the Sixers to have a 1b perimeter option offensively, if they want to become real contenders.

Yes, Simmons' flaws are exacerbated by playing next to a Center (the same position he should be playing offensively). That much is true. His all around game could indeed be valuable for another team. But to the Sixers, his presence on the court is detrimental. Trading him for a player who can be that 1b offensive option will make the Sixers better.

Yes, players can have fluke performances for a game or two, what does this prove? Take CJ for example, he is a 30 year old short, no defense, guard who is a career 53%TS scorer in the postseason as the second option on a team that is usually eliminated in the first round. Sure, he might have a good game, but he is not getting you anywhere and it is unrealistic to expect that. I dont even think his no defense, low efficiency game has a place on a contending team. Again, the Sixers dont need another mediocre shot creator, they have those already. They need a star level (at least) perimeter player with at least some playmaking abilities, which is why Morey was so focused on Harden.

Those "fluke performances" as you call them were all their teams needed to go deep in the playoffs. That's the job of good starters. They aren't there to carry the team to a title on their own. They are there to swing the game in the team's favor when they're hot. Danny Green has had a number of "fluke performances" in important playoff games. Late-career Ray Allen too. Robert Horry made a career out of it. These performances aren't inconsequential, especially when the games are of huge importance.

Ben Simmons cannot have these kind of performances on the offensive end. He cannot "get hot" and have a "fluke performance" in a hugely important game because he refuses to be involved in offense late in games. He cannot support his team's star like these players can. Therefore, trading him for someone can will only make the Sixers better in these crucial junctions of the game.

You dont just state your opinion though. You call Morey ego-driven just because he has a different view of the current situation. You can disagree all you want but dont try to take the moral high ground and attach selfish motives to people that disagree with you.

That's my opinion, though. That Morey wants to win every trade so bad that he won't make win-win trades that help his team. I had the same criticism against Ainge. Am I not free to make these kind of criticisms? If not, why so? I'm not attacking any poster here for their opinion. I'm criticizing a GM.

[DusterBuster]

Embiid is always a ticking time bomb. Wasting a player’s prime. Said can be said about Portland wasting lillard’s prime.

The difference is that Portland tried to get Dame help. They did everything in their power to win but they got sidetracked by unfortunate injuries to key players. It didn't work in the end but they did reach the Conference Finals.

Morey, on the other hand, is currently refusing to get Embiid the help he needs. He isn't doing everything in his power to win. That's my opinion on it, at least. You are free to disagree.

It’s just not about being pissed. It’s about the player(s) coming back in a trade. Sixers need
1. Point guard PLUS a iso scorer down the stretch to help out embiid. Preferably in one player.

Pacers offered brodgon and a mid
First. Look at the pacers. Going no where

Who knows what Portland offered besides CJ. Probably not much more. And the only reason to move on from CJ is he’s just as expensive as Simmons. Older and they have cheaper norm Powell to replace CJ. CJ doesn’t move the needle. He’s gonna to be picked on for his defense as well. Sixers perimeter defense is already taking a big hit with no Simmons on the floor. CJ will be a huge water leak out there. Only so much embiid can do to protect in space to cover for Cj lack of defense.

Both Brogdon and McCollum help Embiid a lot more in the end of games than Simmons does. Are they worse players overall? For sure. But their fit is much better.

People forget that McCollum won the Blazers arguably their biggest game of the past 20 years in Game 7 against the Nuggets to get to the WCF. Unlike Simmons, CJ is proven he can show up in big moments.

[celticfan42487]

We will just have to agree to disagree here. A deal centered around Brogdon or McCollum imo would make the team worse than last year imo, the loss of Simmons' defense and playmaking would off-set what they gain in spacing and fit from either of those guys.

Hmm, for what it's worth I disagree and think the spacing gain would be worth it. But because Seth is a sieve on defense it really is Brogdon or bust as he could cover the SG spot and Seth take the PGs.

But I think their playmaking is enough. It puts a ton of pressure on Embiid to center the defense and the offense and I doubt he has the stamina, but if I'm wrong and Embiid really is an MVP level player and that dude than it should work in theory.

Wouldn't be favorites mind you, but they'd be in the conversation for sure. Moreso than with Simmons who just is an awful fit and needs to be playing the Center position for his next team (or occupying that space on defense and offense with a floor spacing C or PF next to him).

Simmons is arguably the world’s best perimeter defender

Playing him at 5 on defence is a complete waste as it lessens his impact

Oh man, wait till you find out about this play called the pick and roll that teams have been using. Gonna blow your mind.

[kuclas]

The Hawks were the 5th seed last year and they are 11th this year. All three teams (Bucks, Suns, Hawks) are getting overrated simply because everyone else was injured in the last playoffs. Had the Nets been somewhat healthy, the Bucks would be out in the second round, it wouldnt even be close.

Meh. Injuries are a part of the game and you can only beat who you're playing. These 3 teams went far in the playoffs in their own merit and deserve credit for it.

Simmons bad performance contributed of course to the loss, but lets not kidd ourselves. You dont go from losing to this Hawks team to becoming a champio by replacing Simmons with CJ or Siakam.

How so? What if some of the other contenders have injury issues again? Wouldn't the Sixers be in the perfect position to capitalize?

If anything you become worse. Simmons is a bad overall fit but he had found his niche in the team. Defender, playmaker, rebounder and without the need to get a lot of touches. In that regard it is a good fit, he is not a good fit as a max player when your best player is a center. However, the Sixers dont need some more middling offensive threats, they have enough with Curry, Harris, Maxey etc. What they need is a shot creator that can play that role efficiently at the highest level, otherwise Simmons all around game might be better than another guy that will want touches without being very good at it (e.g. CJ)

If McCollum isn't a shot creator then who are you looking at? Who are you hoping that the Sixers can get? Who is that player you're talking about? Is it realistic for this player to be a Sixer within a year? If not, then the Sixers are just wasting Embiid's prime.

Simmons by himself is not the issue, he is not ideal but his all aound game is valuable in a vacuum. Simmons as a max player on a team without a great perimeter player is a problem but breaking him into a couple average/above average players will not solve anything. Embiid's positional limitations and his inability to play heavy minutes, while maintaining his level of play, in the postseason makes it necessary for the Sixers to have a 1b perimeter option offensively, if they want to become real contenders.

Yes, Simmons' flaws are exacerbated by playing next to a Center (the same position he should be playing offensively). That much is true. His all around game could indeed be valuable for another team. But to the Sixers, his presence on the court is detrimental. Trading him for a player who can be that 1b offensive option will make the Sixers better.

Yes, players can have fluke performances for a game or two, what does this prove? Take CJ for example, he is a 30 year old short, no defense, guard who is a career 53%TS scorer in the postseason as the second option on a team that is usually eliminated in the first round. Sure, he might have a good game, but he is not getting you anywhere and it is unrealistic to expect that. I dont even think his no defense, low efficiency game has a place on a contending team. Again, the Sixers dont need another mediocre shot creator, they have those already. They need a star level (at least) perimeter player with at least some playmaking abilities, which is why Morey was so focused on Harden.

Those "fluke performances" as you call them were all their teams needed to go deep in the playoffs. That's the job of good starters. They aren't there to carry the team to a title on their own. They are there to swing the game in the team's favor when they're hot. Danny Green has had a number of "fluke performances" in important playoff games. Late-career Ray Allen too. Robert Horry made a career out of it. These performances aren't inconsequential, especially when the games are of huge importance.

Ben Simmons cannot have these kind of performances on the offensive end. He cannot "get hot" and have a "fluke performance" in a hugely important game because he refuses to be involved in offense late in games. He cannot support his team's star like these players can. Therefore, trading him for someone can will only make the Sixers better in these crucial junctions of the game.

You dont just state your opinion though. You call Morey ego-driven just because he has a different view of the current situation. You can disagree all you want but dont try to take the moral high ground and attach selfish motives to people that disagree with you.

That's my opinion, though. That Morey wants to win every trade so bad that he won't make win-win trades that help his team. I had the same criticism against Ainge. Am I not free to make these kind of criticisms? If not, why so? I'm not attacking any poster here for their opinion. I'm criticizing a GM.

Simmons is under contract for another 3.5 seasons.

Just like any other team competing for wins. Sixers don’t have a gun held to their head to move Simmons. If Simmons were expiring. He would be moved by now.

This is unprecedented what Simmons is trying to do. Hold out and not report.

The nba players nba gotten too much power. The next cba will invoke the ben Simmons rule clause if Simmons gets his way trying to not honor his contract.

You simply don’t reward this behavior.

And yes. Morley has been trying to get sixers and embiid help. Houston turned a blind eye not wanting to trade harden to sixers last season. This included Simmons plus thybulle or Maxey plus a pick. And Houston rejected it. The nets picks aren’t worth a lick. And the best player they will get was from HOUSTON own pick they purposely tanked for.

And morey tried to get Lowry at trade deadline but raptors GM was being knuckle head also refusing to trade Maxey for Lowry straight up. Which was a very fair trade. So to say morey didn’t try to get embiid help is false narrative. Raptors GM wanted Maxey plus 2 first round picks for an expiring Lowry. Which is more preposterous than what morey is asking for Simmons.

So tell me again how morey is dealing unrealistically when Houston and Toronto management were dealing with unreasonable expectations as well.

[PennSports]

so many weird takes on the last few pages

mccollum and brogdon arent getting you the 1 seed like last year. The regular season is still important, especially for teams that do not have multiple hall of famers. If you are the Nets you can just wait till the playoffs, every other team needs a combination of health, luck, good seeding, and good play. Ben Simmons wins you a lot of games, i hate on him more than anyone because he quit on the team but it is pretty hard to deny his impact on a team that has no play makers, is the worst in the league in rebounding without him, has no fast break game, no athletic players, and a lack of good perimeter defenders.

The Sixers still messed it up with the biggest choke in franchise history but run those playoffs 100 times and probably 95 times they are making if farther with a chance to compete for the finals. The Sixers were up HUGE in like every game they lost, just as it was a perfect storm to get them into that position of the 1 seed it was the perfect choke storm. Still the position they were in was incredibly valuable and could be repeated if Ben wasn't such a softie. They are playing the Nets and Bucks back to back without that 1 seed. People are so emotional about this topic that the cannot see the forest for the trees, they take one outcome and preach up and down the halls of the world about how it never could have worked. It was working and in another season ravaged by Covid Ben would likely have the Sixers competing for the one seed again with another chance to do something.

CJ and Brogdon have never had that type of impact and imagine the Sixers paying Tobias and the Tobias of the guard position in CJ all of their cap while Embiid is thumbing his bottom in the corner. You guys are talking about part of one season right now, there is no sooner way to waste Embiid's entire prime than the sell Ben for a 2nd Tobias. Yea, maybe if you replaced Ben in that series with either you win it but you are never in that situation to begin with. You can't just pick and choose when you have these players for these ridiculous hypotheticals. For instance, Brett Brown almost assuredly does not blow that series and the Sixers are still playing. Do i think he gets the team the 1 seed though? No shot.

Doc and Ben are like the two biggest problems when push comes to shove but they still have a lot of value to get you in position and give you big leads. It is not an enviable position and i dont like Doc either but they really have no other option than to wait for a better deal or to bury the hatchet. Embiid of all people is behind this and has spoken about it multiple times. He understands it, why can't you? This is not a battle of egos, the moment Embiid has had enough Ben will be gone for lesser value. Until that happens they are on the same page with the star player for the first time in his career.

[Nate505]

His compensation is under his value. the concern with him is will he play anywhere long-term that isn't in a market he likes.

The good thing about Simmons is that if he doesn't like the market, he'll still act like a professional and play out his contract in that market. You'll never have to worry about him sitting out games if he doesn't get what he wants. Because when it comes to professionalism, Ben Simmons is the pyrite standard.

[Nate505]

After all that there is not one professional athlete who would return to that situation, esp with the hostile fans in Philly.

Sure there are. Not every NBA athlete is an unprofessional soft mentally weak wuss like Simmons is.

[kuclas]

Agreed, but I don’t think that makes Portland open to Simmons being the centerpiece of a trade for Lillard. Portland’s struggles have led to Portland being more willing to add more assets to a CJ/Simmons swap. Portland cares more about high character guys than the average team than others due to the Jail Blazers era, and this diva act is not a good look. You can sell the fans on making Lillard happy by adding Simmons, but they won’t be pleased with Simmons replacing Lillard as the face of the team.

Portland fans won’t be happy with any trade. Even if a team like timberwolves trades 4 numbers 1 picks and pick swaps. And role players like Dlo/beasley and say a young guy like mcdaniels. They will still want Ant Edwards on top of that.

That’s just not gonna to happen.

But Dame has got a shorter lifespan being a smaller guard. Portland has about 1/2 season to try to get max value for dame.

I would be happier with that because Minny’s picks are likely to be better.

Not with dame/ant edwards/towns. Those picks will be in the 20 ish range or lower. Minnesota would be almost guarantee to be to be top 3/4 seed in the west. So for the next 3-4 season. Those draft swaps won’t convey since Minnesota would be better than Portland. And the first round picks at least the first two first round picks would be In the 20s

The only way to guarantee a top 3/4 pick overall is to tank really bad like Houston for 2 season. You can’t rely on other teams picks being bad when they are acquiring the better player.

[Nuntius]

Simmons is under contract for another 3.5 seasons.

Just like any other team competing for wins. Sixers don’t have a gun held to their head to move Simmons. If Simmons were expiring. He would be moved by now.

This is unprecedented what Simmons is trying to do. Hold out and not report.

The nba players nba gotten too much power. The next cba will invoke the ben Simmons rule clause if Simmons gets his way trying to not honor his contract.

You simply don’t reward this behavior.

The Sixers don't have to trade Simmons because Simmons has asked for a trade. The Sixers have to trade Simmons because that's the only way to improve their team and get Embiid the help he needs.

And yes. Morley has been trying to get sixers and embiid help. Houston turned a blind eye not wanting to trade harden to sixers last season. This included Simmons plus thybulle or Maxey plus a pick. And Houston rejected it. The nets picks aren’t worth a lick. And the best player they will get was from HOUSTON own pick they purposely tanked for.

And morey tried to get Lowry at trade deadline but raptors GM was being knuckle head also refusing to trade Maxey for Lowry straight up. Which was a very fair trade. So to say morey didn’t try to get embiid help is false narrative. Raptors GM wanted Maxey plus 2 first round picks for an expiring Lowry. Which is more preposterous than what morey is asking for Simmons.

So tell me again how morey is dealing unrealistically when Houston and Toronto management were dealing with unreasonable expectations as well.

There is a reason why other GMs aren't willing to deal with Morey. It's the same reason why they weren't willing to deal with Ainge. GMs who get a reputation of making ridiculous offers and trying to rip off their trading partners will eventually get cut off by the rest of the GMs. GMs will refuse to trade with them. That's what happens when one negotiates in bad faith which is something that Morey has been doing for a long while now.

What was it that the 76ers demanded from Toronto for Simmons? Ah, yes. It was Lowry, FVV, OG and the 4th pick of the '21 draft (which became Scottie Barnes) -> https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-ben-simmons-philadelphia-76ers-asking-price

No wonder Masai doesn't want to negotiate with that.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Rumour has it that Raps may had been willing to do a Fred Vanleet & OG for Ben Simmons with no picks.

FVV - is 50% on catch and shoot 3s on high volume. He's a really good shooter. And a really strong defender
Also averages 20 pts a game, and develop a mid-range (his biggest weakness)

OG is 40% on catch and shoot 3s, and one of the most versatile defender. Very strong defender.
And starting to build an iso game too. Averaging 19 pts a game.

Morey maybe able to get a Dame or Beal but i seriously would not count on it....the boat has sailed....

I would have taken this one, to be honest

___
Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

[bebopdeluxe]

From my perspective, Morey is playing this just right. Keep your powder dry, keep putting that $ of Simmons' salary in escrow (money that goes POOF when he is traded, IIRC), and wait for a good deal. There is still SEVEN WEEKS to the deadline - which is plenty of time for other teams' narratives to collapse.

The Blazers are imploding.

The Celtics are imploding.

The Wizards have come back to earth with a THUD.

Teams like the Pelicans (Ingram), Spurs (Murray) and Kings (Haliburton) are floating near the bottom of the table. in Toronto, the emergence of Barnes, and improvements in play from guys like Boucher and Precious, may make OG available (along with FVV).

There is NO RUSH. Team chemistry is just fine. The only people who seem to be getting bent about this around here are Sixers-haters and Morey-haters.

Patience.

[kuclas]

Simmons is under contract for another 3.5 seasons.

Just like any other team competing for wins. Sixers don’t have a gun held to their head to move Simmons. If Simmons were expiring. He would be moved by now.

This is unprecedented what Simmons is trying to do. Hold out and not report.

The nba players nba gotten too much power. The next cba will invoke the ben Simmons rule clause if Simmons gets his way trying to not honor his contract.

You simply don’t reward this behavior.

The Sixers don't have to trade Simmons because Simmons has asked for a trade. The Sixers have to trade Simmons because that's the only way to improve their team and get Embiid the help he needs.

And yes. Morley has been trying to get sixers and embiid help. Houston turned a blind eye not wanting to trade harden to sixers last season. This included Simmons plus thybulle or Maxey plus a pick. And Houston rejected it. The nets picks aren’t worth a lick. And the best player they will get was from HOUSTON own pick they purposely tanked for.

And morey tried to get Lowry at trade deadline but raptors GM was being knuckle head also refusing to trade Maxey for Lowry straight up. Which was a very fair trade. So to say morey didn’t try to get embiid help is false narrative. Raptors GM wanted Maxey plus 2 first round picks for an expiring Lowry. Which is more preposterous than what morey is asking for Simmons.

So tell me again how morey is dealing unrealistically when Houston and Toronto management were dealing with unreasonable expectations as well.

There is a reason why other GMs aren't willing to deal with Morey. It's the same reason why they weren't willing to deal with Ainge. GMs who get a reputation of making ridiculous offers and trying to rip off their trading partners will eventually get cut off by the rest of the GMs. GMs will refuse to trade with them. That's what happens when one negotiates in bad faith which is something that Morey has been doing for a long while now.

What was it that the 76ers demanded from Toronto for Simmons? Ah, yes. It was Lowry, FVV, OG and the 4th pick of the '21 draft (which became Scottie Barnes) -> https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-ben-simmons-philadelphia-76ers-asking-price

No wonder Masai doesn't want to negotiate with that.

It was masai who wanted 2 first round picks plus Maxey thybulle for expiring Lowry in March 2021


https://www.si.com/nba/76ers/.amp/news/nba-rumors-raptors-asking-kyle-lowry-too-much-sixers

And u wonder who was trying to rip someone off first.

No wonder why morey didn’t want to negotiate with masai AFTER the Lowry negotiating


So you have your unreasonable GM switched around. It’s masai trying to rip people off. That in turn pissed off morey.

[Nuntius]

Simmons is under contract for another 3.5 seasons.

Just like any other team competing for wins. Sixers don’t have a gun held to their head to move Simmons. If Simmons were expiring. He would be moved by now.

This is unprecedented what Simmons is trying to do. Hold out and not report.

The nba players nba gotten too much power. The next cba will invoke the ben Simmons rule clause if Simmons gets his way trying to not honor his contract.

You simply don’t reward this behavior.

The Sixers don't have to trade Simmons because Simmons has asked for a trade. The Sixers have to trade Simmons because that's the only way to improve their team and get Embiid the help he needs.

And yes. Morley has been trying to get sixers and embiid help. Houston turned a blind eye not wanting to trade harden to sixers last season. This included Simmons plus thybulle or Maxey plus a pick. And Houston rejected it. The nets picks aren’t worth a lick. And the best player they will get was from HOUSTON own pick they purposely tanked for.

And morey tried to get Lowry at trade deadline but raptors GM was being knuckle head also refusing to trade Maxey for Lowry straight up. Which was a very fair trade. So to say morey didn’t try to get embiid help is false narrative. Raptors GM wanted Maxey plus 2 first round picks for an expiring Lowry. Which is more preposterous than what morey is asking for Simmons.

So tell me again how morey is dealing unrealistically when Houston and Toronto management were dealing with unreasonable expectations as well.

There is a reason why other GMs aren't willing to deal with Morey. It's the same reason why they weren't willing to deal with Ainge. GMs who get a reputation of making ridiculous offers and trying to rip off their trading partners will eventually get cut off by the rest of the GMs. GMs will refuse to trade with them. That's what happens when one negotiates in bad faith which is something that Morey has been doing for a long while now.

What was it that the 76ers demanded from Toronto for Simmons? Ah, yes. It was Lowry, FVV, OG and the 4th pick of the '21 draft (which became Scottie Barnes) -> https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-ben-simmons-philadelphia-76ers-asking-price

No wonder Masai doesn't want to negotiate with that.

It was masai who wanted 2 first round picks plus Maxey thybulle for expiring Lowry in March 2021


https://www.si.com/nba/76ers/.amp/news/nba-rumors-raptors-asking-kyle-lowry-too-much-sixers

And u wonder who was trying to rip someone off first.

No wonder why morey didn’t want to negotiate with masai AFTER the Lowry negotiating


So you have your unreasonable GM switched around. It’s masai trying to rip people off. That in turn pissed off morey.

Sure, that was an unreasonable offer by Masai. But Morey has been offering these kind of deals for a long, long time now. Long before he went to the Sixers. This wasn't the first interaction between these two GMs. If Masai keeps offering these kind of deals then he'll get a reputation as well but I think that the only reason he offered this kind of deal was exactly because he was negotiating with Morey.

[bebopdeluxe]

Simmons is under contract for another 3.5 seasons.

Just like any other team competing for wins. Sixers don’t have a gun held to their head to move Simmons. If Simmons were expiring. He would be moved by now.

This is unprecedented what Simmons is trying to do. Hold out and not report.

The nba players nba gotten too much power. The next cba will invoke the ben Simmons rule clause if Simmons gets his way trying to not honor his contract.

You simply don’t reward this behavior.

The Sixers don't have to trade Simmons because Simmons has asked for a trade. The Sixers have to trade Simmons because that's the only way to improve their team and get Embiid the help he needs.

And yes. Morley has been trying to get sixers and embiid help. Houston turned a blind eye not wanting to trade harden to sixers last season. This included Simmons plus thybulle or Maxey plus a pick. And Houston rejected it. The nets picks aren’t worth a lick. And the best player they will get was from HOUSTON own pick they purposely tanked for.

And morey tried to get Lowry at trade deadline but raptors GM was being knuckle head also refusing to trade Maxey for Lowry straight up. Which was a very fair trade. So to say morey didn’t try to get embiid help is false narrative. Raptors GM wanted Maxey plus 2 first round picks for an expiring Lowry. Which is more preposterous than what morey is asking for Simmons.

So tell me again how morey is dealing unrealistically when Houston and Toronto management were dealing with unreasonable expectations as well.

There is a reason why other GMs aren't willing to deal with Morey. It's the same reason why they weren't willing to deal with Ainge. GMs who get a reputation of making ridiculous offers and trying to rip off their trading partners will eventually get cut off by the rest of the GMs. GMs will refuse to trade with them. That's what happens when one negotiates in bad faith which is something that Morey has been doing for a long while now.

What was it that the 76ers demanded from Toronto for Simmons? Ah, yes. It was Lowry, FVV, OG and the 4th pick of the '21 draft (which became Scottie Barnes) -> https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-ben-simmons-philadelphia-76ers-asking-price

No wonder Masai doesn't want to negotiate with that.

It was masai who wanted 2 first round picks plus Maxey thybulle for expiring Lowry in March 2021


https://www.si.com/nba/76ers/.amp/news/nba-rumors-raptors-asking-kyle-lowry-too-much-sixers

And u wonder who was trying to rip someone off first.

No wonder why morey didn’t want to negotiate with masai AFTER the Lowry negotiating


So you have your unreasonable GM switched around. It’s masai trying to rip people off. That in turn pissed off morey.

This is a good post. People slagging Morey for holding out for unreasonable hauls for Simmons, but when you bring out what Masai wanted for two months of Lowry, and what do you hear from the board?

Crickets.

[Tor_Raps]

Dec 15 has come and gone, feels like Morey isn't going to budge on any Simmons trade unless Embiid starts making noise about the issue or Lillard/Beal become available unexpectedly. What a waste...

[bebopdeluxe]

The Sixers don't have to trade Simmons because Simmons has asked for a trade. The Sixers have to trade Simmons because that's the only way to improve their team and get Embiid the help he needs.



There is a reason why other GMs aren't willing to deal with Morey. It's the same reason why they weren't willing to deal with Ainge. GMs who get a reputation of making ridiculous offers and trying to rip off their trading partners will eventually get cut off by the rest of the GMs. GMs will refuse to trade with them. That's what happens when one negotiates in bad faith which is something that Morey has been doing for a long while now.

What was it that the 76ers demanded from Toronto for Simmons? Ah, yes. It was Lowry, FVV, OG and the 4th pick of the '21 draft (which became Scottie Barnes) -> https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-ben-simmons-philadelphia-76ers-asking-price

No wonder Masai doesn't want to negotiate with that.

It was masai who wanted 2 first round picks plus Maxey thybulle for expiring Lowry in March 2021


https://www.si.com/nba/76ers/.amp/news/nba-rumors-raptors-asking-kyle-lowry-too-much-sixers

And u wonder who was trying to rip someone off first.

No wonder why morey didn’t want to negotiate with masai AFTER the Lowry negotiating


So you have your unreasonable GM switched around. It’s masai trying to rip people off. That in turn pissed off morey.

Sure, that was an unreasonable offer by Masai. But Morey has been offering these kind of deals for a long, long time now. Long before he went to the Sixers. This wasn't the first interaction between these two GMs. If Masai keeps offering these kind of deals then he'll get a reputation as well but I think that the only reason he offered this kind of deal was exactly because he was negotiating with Morey.

So, I am not sure what your point is here. You - along with others - are saying that Morey is this RIDICULOUSLY difficult GM to work with...a guy who always asks for the moon. Yet, we have a concrete example of a situation where the shoe is on the other foot - where Morey was looking to rent Lowry for a couple of months (and acquire his Bird rights - which is not nothing), but Masai asks for Maxey AND Thybulle AND MULTIPLE PICKS.

This is what GM's do. ALL THE TIME.

And the reality - as I am sure you know (because in all sincerity, i do think you are a smart and knowledgable poster around here) is that there are what you are asking for in public (as much for PR reasons as anything) and what you will accept in private, GM-to-GM discussions. I am sure that is what was happening with the Lowry talks (i.e. Masai would have accepted less than what that ridiculous article suggested), and I am guessing that is what is happening with the Simmons talks.

FWIW, I think that a deal involving Murray is still likely available (Simmons has specific value to the Spurs, given the difficulties they have in attracting high-level FA's, as well as having Chip Engelland on staff), but Morey is waiting to see if other players become available first. Looking at what is happening right now with teams like the Blazers and Celtics, that doesn't seem to be all that far-fetched. But I have been around long enough to know that what is leaked out there in the press is done for a LOT of reasons. Masai knew that trading probably the most iconic Raptor player of all time (apologies to VC) to a division rival was going to be a challenge, so Masai leaked a REALLY high price - out of respect to both the player and the fans. Morey is probably doing the same with Simmons. I am sure that most of the GM's in the league understand what Morey is doing, and will react accordingly.

[bebopdeluxe]

Dec 15 has come and gone, feels like Morey isn't going to budge on any Simmons trade unless Embiid starts making noise about the issue or Lillard/Beal become available unexpectedly. What a waste...

Jaylen Brown says hello.

[Tor_Raps]

Dec 15 has come and gone, feels like Morey isn't going to budge on any Simmons trade unless Embiid starts making noise about the issue or Lillard/Beal become available unexpectedly. What a waste...

Jaylen Brown says hello.

That would be a good trade as the Celtics need a playmaker and the Sixers need a potential closer in the worst way.

I just wonder if the Celtics will have enough scoring after Tatum if they got rid of Brown. I'm sure both sides will overrate their players to the point it won't happen.

[Eyeamok]

His compensation is under his value. the concern with him is will he play anywhere long-term that isn't in a market he likes.

The good thing about Simmons is that if he doesn't like the market, he'll still act like a professional and play out his contract in that market. You'll never have to worry about him sitting out games if he doesn't get what he wants. Because when it comes to professionalism, Ben Simmons is the pyrite standard.

im a gonna go and give you an And 1 just because I had never heard of that damn dear pirate standard before !
Who knew pirates had standards. Realgm a wealth of knowledge.

*oops pyrite.