OT : Eurobasket 2025 semifinals | Türkiye vs Greece | & | Finland vs Germany |

[GelbeWand09]

This is the first Eurobasket I follow since maybe the mid 2010s. Because I usually only watch when we (Turkey) play and 2022 I only watched Turkey matches so my last real Eurobasket I followed also the other teams was 2017.
Is it just me, or has the level gone down drastically in european Basketball? Of course at the very top, you have more superstars than ever. But the average level of the players seems incredibly low.

We for example, have Sengun, Cedi sometimes when he is on is good, Larkin the same as Cedi but otherwise our roster is pretty god damn bad tbh. But yet, we belong to the favorites. Same goes for Germany, I dont think Germany starting Andi Obst and Daniel Theis, no matter how good role players they are, would be the best country 10-15 years ago.
It seems like the difference in quality between NBA level and the rest is bigger than ever, I dont remember NBA guys being so dominant before.

In the past the favorites used to have 7-10 really top quality players. Maybe not all NBA, but at least top EUroleague level. Now it seems to be enough to count as a contender if you have 1 Superstar, 2-3 Euroleage level players and the rest is unimportant.

Or maybe we were just blessed with the best european generation between the mid 2000s till mid 2010s and have a clouded judgement. The top teams from that era would probably wipe the floor with anyone at this tournament.
But really, I watch the games of Turkey and think to myself, man outside of Sengün our guys are so **** limited, our guard play is trash etc. And yet we are 6/6 and count as gold favorite lol

I remember the days of Hedo, Ömer Asik, Ilyasova and so on. Outside of 2009 and 2010, I wouldnt have counted that team as a top 4-5 team in Europe. Probably Top 6-7 on average. Yet, I feel like our team from 2010 would be the top favorite here

Cant speak for the other nations but German Roleplayers are muuuuch better than 10 years ago or in the whole Nowitzki era or when they won the euro 30 years ago. Average quality of the german players is by far the highest in german history.

I'm a Magic fan and i love Hedo but he wasnt really that good and is noway near Senguns level + the turkish Hedo teams i remember in the tournament always had bad chemistry & diva vibes.

[Mavrelous]

Poland up 8 in the last minutes after trailing for the 1st 3 quarters, 1st 1/4 finals match is set, Turkey Vs Poland.

[LuDux1]

Also, Pačėsas is defensive mastermind

FTFY. Pačėsas is responsible for defense, according to Kurtinaitis

This completely changes my opinion of Pačėsas if true, I used to hate this guy since Prokom days. Anticipating what kind of defense Lithuania will play next is one of the most interesting things left for me here. They probably due to burning out, because so far, two for two when trying ridiculous stuff.

Kurtinaitis said that before preparations, maybe things changed. And I don't think he specified what exactly that means. And it's not like they invented those defenses. Basically anyone could be NT coach

[lambchop]

Bosnia with Musa probably gets past Poland. Anyway, congrats to Poland.

I heard in an interview that Nurkic actually has to fund the team, because due to how Bosnia is set up the country is stuck in this infinite loop of the 3 ethnicities blocking each other forever.

[G R E Y]

There was I think one made basket in the last 2 or so minutes. Lots if chances. Lits if misses. Good subbing out of Pluta. His sub got a couple of key boards late.

Probably closer than Poland would have liked - there are no 'should win' at this stage - nobody's going to give it to you.

[RipHamilton]

This is the first Eurobasket I follow since maybe the mid 2010s. Because I usually only watch when we (Turkey) play and 2022 I only watched Turkey matches so my last real Eurobasket I followed also the other teams was 2017.
Is it just me, or has the level gone down drastically in european Basketball? Of course at the very top, you have more superstars than ever. But the average level of the players seems incredibly low.

We for example, have Sengun, Cedi sometimes when he is on is good, Larkin the same as Cedi but otherwise our roster is pretty god damn bad tbh. But yet, we belong to the favorites. Same goes for Germany, I dont think Germany starting Andi Obst and Daniel Theis, no matter how good role players they are, would be the best country 10-15 years ago.
It seems like the difference in quality between NBA level and the rest is bigger than ever, I dont remember NBA guys being so dominant before.

In the past the favorites used to have 7-10 really top quality players. Maybe not all NBA, but at least top EUroleague level. Now it seems to be enough to count as a contender if you have 1 Superstar, 2-3 Euroleage level players and the rest is unimportant.

Or maybe we were just blessed with the best european generation between the mid 2000s till mid 2010s and have a clouded judgement. The top teams from that era would probably wipe the floor with anyone at this tournament.
But really, I watch the games of Turkey and think to myself, man outside of Sengün our guys are so **** limited, our guard play is trash etc. And yet we are 6/6 and count as gold favorite lol

I remember the days of Hedo, Ömer Asik, Ilyasova and so on. Outside of 2009 and 2010, I wouldnt have counted that team as a top 4-5 team in Europe. Probably Top 6-7 on average. Yet, I feel like our team from 2010 would be the top favorite here

You’re judging all of European basketball based on Turkey’s development.

In general, the level of European basketball has improved a lot. Great countries like Serbia and France don’t just have great players anymore—they have superstars.

Now almost every country has one or two NBA-level players. In the past, only countries like Spain, Croatia, France, could produced NBA players. Now, countries like Bosnia, Montenegro, Finland, and others also have NBA-quality players—and that number is growing.

You mentioned Germany, and it’s a perfect example. They don’t just have one superstar (maybe a star, with Wagner), like they had with Dirk (a true superstar). They now have one star, plus 2–3 NBA-level players, plus 3–4 more who are great European-level players. This German team would crash German team from 2010.

Turkey was great back in the day with Hedo, Ilyasova, and Aşık—but hear me out—I think today’s Turkey could beat that team. If not now, then in two years. And Sengun is already better than Hedo or any other Turkish player from the last 20 years. No doubt about it. He’s a powerhouse and is on track to be a top 10 player globally for the next 5–8 years. Turkey has never produced a player like Sengun.

[UcanUwill]

This is the first Eurobasket I follow since maybe the mid 2010s. Because I usually only watch when we (Turkey) play and 2022 I only watched Turkey matches so my last real Eurobasket I followed also the other teams was 2017.
Is it just me, or has the level gone down drastically in european Basketball? Of course at the very top, you have more superstars than ever. But the average level of the players seems incredibly low.

We for example, have Sengun, Cedi sometimes when he is on is good, Larkin the same as Cedi but otherwise our roster is pretty god damn bad tbh. But yet, we belong to the favorites. Same goes for Germany, I dont think Germany starting Andi Obst and Daniel Theis, no matter how good role players they are, would be the best country 10-15 years ago.
It seems like the difference in quality between NBA level and the rest is bigger than ever, I dont remember NBA guys being so dominant before.

In the past the favorites used to have 7-10 really top quality players. Maybe not all NBA, but at least top EUroleague level. Now it seems to be enough to count as a contender if you have 1 Superstar, 2-3 Euroleage level players and the rest is unimportant.

Or maybe we were just blessed with the best european generation between the mid 2000s till mid 2010s and have a clouded judgement. The top teams from that era would probably wipe the floor with anyone at this tournament.
But really, I watch the games of Turkey and think to myself, man outside of Sengün our guys are so **** limited, our guard play is trash etc. And yet we are 6/6 and count as gold favorite lol

I remember the days of Hedo, Ömer Asik, Ilyasova and so on. Outside of 2009 and 2010, I wouldnt have counted that team as a top 4-5 team in Europe. Probably Top 6-7 on average. Yet, I feel like our team from 2010 would be the top favorite here

Cant speak for the other nations but German Roleplayers are muuuuch better than 10 years ago or in the whole Nowitzki era or when they won the euro 30 years ago. Average quality of the german players is by far the highest in german history.

I'm a Magic fan and i love Hedo but he wasnt really that good and is noway near Senguns level + the turkish Hedo teams i remember in the tournament always had bad chemistry & diva vibes.

I see what peZt means. Teams like Turkey, Lithuania, Slovenia had nothing but NBA and Euroleague players, now half or more of their players are from god knows where, and they are still few of the favorites. Even Germany in Dirks time, we saw them as mid team at best just cause of Dirk, and we thought Dirks supporting cast sucked huge, but still, most of their players were from Euroleague.

That said, Euroleague also just got way better in the last 20 years so it is not 1 to 1 comp anymore, now having Euroleague guard is basically the same as having NBA guard back in the day.

But just watching some teams, level is not good. That Robertson dude got hurt for Bosnia and they were done. And like, who would Poland be without Loyd? Euro produces few of the very best players in the world, but thats just few players at the end of the day, overall picture is still pretty grim a lot of times.

[schnakenpopanz]

IF Turkey play halfway decent, which they won't, they should advance easily.
Poland has now answers for the physicality of Turkey.
They need a huge shooting night

[LuDux1]

Level would be higher if half of teams didn't have half of players missing

[tirador]

Slovenia's only title is an asterisk, because they wouldn't have won it without naturalizing Anthony Randolph.

That's ridiculous. You want to penalize a 2M population country simply for following FIBA rules? Slovenia didn't lose a single game in that tournament and it for sure wasn't like that because of Randolph lol.

They wouldn't have won the gold without naturalizing a player that had never been to their country before.

So that's most definitely an asterisk title.

Will you please tell us a few examples of Eurobasket champions in the last 20 years without an asterisk?

[schnakenpopanz]

That's ridiculous. You want to penalize a 2M population country simply for following FIBA rules? Slovenia didn't lose a single game in that tournament and it for sure wasn't like that because of Randolph lol.

They wouldn't have won the gold without naturalizing a player that had never been to their country before.

So that's most definitely an asterisk title.

Will you please tell us a few examples of Eurobasket champions in the last 20 years without an asterisk?

There is nothing like an asterisk. It's made as an excuse by the ones whol lost and drives the people mad who won.
Of course you need luck and some things have to go your way, but we can not act like this would take anything away from the ones who earned it.

[Nuntius]

I did see those games. I'm not worried with the bigs, because our bigs in men's team are now better than ever and they are on average quite young. Muurinen is just 18 for example, youngest player of the Eurobasket tournament.

Finland has definitely produced excellent Power Forwards lately. You just miss the 7 footer that is oftentimes important in these FIBA tournaments.

Problem is the point guard position. Our coaches put Little into the starting five vs Serbia, which was a surprise move and reduced Maxhuni's minutes (he is a liability in the defensive end). This worked and Little played his best game ever in the national team. I assume that Finland will do the same against France/Georgia, in terms of point guard minute distribution.

I agree that this spot is a concern. Little has promise but he hasn't quite developed like hoped.

Apparently there's a strategy for Finlands youth teams (boys/men only) where the main objective is to grow players in the men's national team, which is more important than the success in the youth tournament itself. As bizarre as it may sound, this is what they have been talking to the parents of many players. This affects the player selections for the youth teams, because sometimes they take players with most individual potential over players who would fit the team structure the best. It sucks for us spectators, but the deciders probably felt it's something that a small nation (population wise) needs to do. This strategy might be working, but you see this rollercoaster of results in youth games then. Perhaps sometimes new talent may be found in this way.

It's a whole different story with the youth girls' teams, who got two medals in a row last two summers. They build teams to win and that one age group just is very special in terms or talent and depth and they will probably get another medal next summer.

That's very interesting. If that's the way they're going about it then the lack of results make sense. You've definitely watched more of these teams than I have so I trust your viewpoint on this.

[schnakenpopanz]

Oh and the fact that people call this serbian team the "golden generation" is an insult to the ones before esp. *01. Outside of Jokic there is not a top 10 Player now in this tournament who plays for that team. They have the best individual player, yes, but maybe not the best team in the end.

[remiga007]

Valančiūnas was spot minutes player in this game, latvia plays 5 out. Valančiūnas honestly looks cooked, I do not know how can he still play in the NBA.

Cooked or used wisely? His +/- is 3rd is best on the team, only 5th last night, but he played with some silly lineups, with Marek (because they couldn't substitute him out) or with 2 PFs

I don't know man, you see how slow he is on defense, it is not about stats, NBA is still a different animal, we have plenty of stars who are good on offense but bad on D and therefore are not in the NBA, and Jonas is a center on top of that, I hope he can still find minutes in the NBA, but its tough,

Said it in another thread, but he's been slowest guy on court since his second year in Toronto. He's been giving up higher percentage shots for sure, but still is rebounding beast and limits second chance opportunities.
Denver FO for sure do not think he's cooked, it seems.

[Archx]

Oh and the fact that people call this serbian team the "golden generation" is an insult to the ones before esp. *01. Outside of Jokic there is not a top 10 Player now in this tournament who plays for that team. They have the best individual player, yes, but maybe not the best team in the end.

Actually i think Jokic himself wasn't at his best. He was mostly partying and doing other stuff to this point. You can clearly see he gained weight as well. Giannis and Luka are playing a level above him in this Eurobasket, specially Luka. You would expect something similar from Jokic. Serbia was still really good it's just that not having Bogdanovic also hurt them a lot.

[BadaBoom]

France struggling in D, Yabusele's defense especially awful so far

Risacher a bit too young with 2 dumb fouls in 2 minutes...

[UcanUwill]

Cooked or used wisely? His +/- is 3rd is best on the team, only 5th last night, but he played with some silly lineups, with Marek (because they couldn't substitute him out) or with 2 PFs

I don't know man, you see how slow he is on defense, it is not about stats, NBA is still a different animal, we have plenty of stars who are good on offense but bad on D and therefore are not in the NBA, and Jonas is a center on top of that, I hope he can still find minutes in the NBA, but its tough,

Said it in another thread, but he's been slowest guy on court since his second year in Toronto. He's been giving up higher percentage shots for sure, but still is rebounding beast and limits second chance opportunities.
Denver FO for sure do not think he's cooked, it seems.

Well, they thought the same of Dario Saric. Somehow NOP were good defensive team with him starting, so I don't know, but he looks just too slow, it is not comparable to his Toronto days, I think Toronto Jonas was fine, he just lacked lateral speed, now he lacks every kind of speed.

[BadaBoom]

I really don't understand how France coach doesn't force his player to be more careful with early fouls. Our best defenders are constantly at 2 fouls after playing under 5mins, it's maddening to see.
Nobody needs to be that aggressive in first half, especially when they whistle a lot, they just can't seem to adapt it's crazy

[UcanUwill]

Jaiteh looks huge even against this big Georgian team.

[UcanUwill]

Also, a bit interesting that a lot of people consider Mamu an NBA center. He is more of a SF than C.