Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued

[Dupp]

Lebron should go west after this year.

So there are no players left in the east?

[LikeABosh]

Lebron should go west after this year.

So there are no players left in the east?

Would never lose in the finals

May not make it ever again, but definitely wouldn't lose again

[Dupp]

Lebron should go west after this year.

So there are no players left in the east?

Would never lose in the finals

May not make it ever again, but definitely wouldn't lose again

Goat!

[Ballerhogger]

Lebron should go west after this year.

So there are no players left in the east?

True......

[Kerrsed]

Lebron should go west after this year.

So there are no players left in the east?

True......

But its a good thing, maybe it will finally force the league to abandon the outdated Conference standings for the playoffs.

[The Duke]

Bledsoe, bender + 1st

Exactly the trade I said pages ago, where Irving would be valued to the sun's

[XPeak]

Lost in all the hullabaloo is Kyrie Irving's true intention of the trade demand.

I've said it here (and have read countless others also) is that Kyrie Irving wants to be "THE MAN". He wants to be rid of the enormous, GOAT-like shadow, of LeBron James (who "helped" him to 3 straight Finals appearances ever since "The Return").

Funny thing is, according to initial reports, Kyrie Irving specifically named 4 teams. Those are the Spurs, T'Wolves, Heat, and then the Knicks. Dissecting the choices more and it gets puzzling all of a sudden.

T'Wolves have: KAT and Butler (both could arguably be on the same level as Kyrie or EVEN higher)
Spurs have: Kawhi Leonard (better than Kyrie)
Knicks: Kristaps Porzingis (could also be better than Kyrie very soon)

If he wants to be the MAN, I only see Miami Heat as the most logical choice for his "intent" as Dragic will be almost a sure-fire inclusion in any deal to Cleveland.

More and more it is slowly looking like Kyrie Irving knows something and definitely doesn't want to be a part of LeBron's second departure. By then, he will be left with TT, JR Smith, and other overpaid players.

[bwgood77]

I think the deal that makes most sense for both teams is something like Dragic, Winslow, Bam and pick swap rights.

[Dupp]

I think the deal that makes most sense for both teams is something like Dragic, Winslow, Bam and pick swap rights.

From my perspective this is one of the worst deals floated around.

[bwgood77]

I think the deal that makes most sense for both teams is something like Dragic, Winslow, Bam and pick swap rights.

From my perspective this is one of the worst deals floated around.

Dragic seems to have a big impact on wins. Two of the biggest surprise seasons by teams involved him. The other guys could become something. Personally, if I was the Cavs GM, I would just hold onto Kyrie for now. I am a big Bender fan though, so I might take that offer, as I think Bender has a very very high upside...though obviously nothing in stats reflects that. So I personally would never give him up in a trade for 2 years of Kyrie...that may sound ludicrous, but I have a pretty good feeling about the guy.

[Jack Dempsey]

I think the deal that makes most sense for both teams is something like Dragic, Winslow, Bam and pick swap rights.

From my perspective this is one of the worst deals floated around.

Just curious, what REALISTIC deal (no JJ, Wiggins, Harris&Murray,...) would you prefer?

[BasketballFan7]

I think the deal that makes most sense for both teams is something like Dragic, Winslow, Bam and pick swap rights.

I don't think this is too bad, but I do think it's a surefire way to guarantee LeBron's departure.

Perhaps a trade that nets the Cavs both Bender and Dragic?

[DowJones]

I think the deal that makes most sense for both teams is something like Dragic, Winslow, Bam and pick swap rights.

From my perspective this is one of the worst deals floated around.

Just curious, what REALISTIC deal (no JJ, Wiggins, Harris&Murray,...) would you prefer?

I like Kyrie for Chandler-Murray-2018 Denver 1st.

[NavLDO]

Kyrie is already a bigger star than Bledsoe will ever be. He'll sell games and merchandise. Do you think Josh Jackson will be making Uncle Drew like commercials, have the same amount of highlight materials or be the fifth highest selling jerse?

im speaking in terms of being a fan of the game, and what effect it has on the court, i couldn't care less than i do how marketable he is and i imagine if the Suns continue to win 20-30 games a year it wont matter how marketable Kyrie is on top of which a lot of that could and probably has to do with the success and visibility of the team which Lebron is far more responsible for than Kyrie is. I believe and you are free to disagree with me and it's fine but i think if Kyrie and Bledoe were switched these last three years the result wouldn't have been that much different for Cleveland and as a result Bledoe would be more popular than he is and Kyrie less so, maybe not equally because Kyrie does all the things that casual youtube/sports center highlight fans love and is flashy, but it's definitely debatable at least for me which actually contributes to winning more in the same situation and impossible to know for sure

You really don't see KI's value. he is a lot better player than Bledsoe.

Funny. EB has 1700 less Career MP than KI. And defensively, KI has NEVER been close to EB...who has 78 or 60% more BLKs and 78 or 15% more STLs. As a rebounder, KI has NEVER been close to EB...who has 293 or 20+% more TRBs. And throughout their careers, per 100 possessions, EB has more Assts.

Now, I know everything is 'offensively oriented' when comparing players, and yes, Kyrie has a .873 to .800 advantage in FT%, but when KI's FTr is only .259 to EB's is .376, it evens out, and EB makes as many FTs per36 as KI does.

But let's go to more recent times...like, this past season to see how they matchup. Interesting. Despite KI having fellow All-NBAers such as LeBron and Love, and quality players like TT on the team, and as you and other Cav fans have described, EB has been playing with 'scrubs' the likes of Warren, Bender, Chriss, and, yet shoot, our best player being Booker, it's quite telling, don't you think, that EB had a higher BPM, and equal VORP to KI this past season, and has a higher Asst ratio.

But yeah, you're probably right; KI is a lot better player than EB. It'll be interesting to see, after the trade how all these numbers stack up...

[Stillwater]

im speaking in terms of being a fan of the game, and what effect it has on the court, i couldn't care less than i do how marketable he is and i imagine if the Suns continue to win 20-30 games a year it wont matter how marketable Kyrie is on top of which a lot of that could and probably has to do with the success and visibility of the team which Lebron is far more responsible for than Kyrie is. I believe and you are free to disagree with me and it's fine but i think if Kyrie and Bledoe were switched these last three years the result wouldn't have been that much different for Cleveland and as a result Bledoe would be more popular than he is and Kyrie less so, maybe not equally because Kyrie does all the things that casual youtube/sports center highlight fans love and is flashy, but it's definitely debatable at least for me which actually contributes to winning more in the same situation and impossible to know for sure

You really don't see KI's value. he is a lot better player than Bledsoe.

Funny. EB has 1700 less Career MP than KI. And defensively, KI has NEVER been close to EB...who has 78 or 60% more BLKs and 78 or 15% more STLs. As a rebounder, KI has NEVER been close to EB...who has 293 or 20+% more TRBs. And throughout their careers, per 100 possessions, EB has more Assts.

Now, I know everything is 'offensively oriented' when comparing players, and yes, Kyrie has a .873 to .800 advantage in FT%, but when KI's FTr is only .259 to EB's is .376, it evens out, and EB makes as many FTs per36 as KI does.

But let's go to more recent times...like, this past season to see how they matchup. Interesting. Despite KI having fellow All-NBAers such as LeBron and Love, and quality players like TT on the team, and as you and other Cav fans have described, EB has been playing with 'scrubs' the likes of Warren, Bender, Chriss, and, yet shoot, our best player being Booker, it's quite telling, don't you think, that EB had a higher BPM, and equal VORP to KI this past season, and has a higher Asst ratio.

But yeah, you're probably right; KI is a lot better player than EB. It'll be interesting to see, after the trade how all these numbers stack up...

Interesting points, could be I have undervalued Bledsoe but simply saying KI is a lot better, but if he is so much on par with Irving, why in the world would the Suns be so interested in trading for KI? The fact is, KI is a much more threatening force for opposing teams to deal with,regardless of win shares,defensive efficiency and overall player impact. Bledsoe is a solid borderline all star guard, and I am not taking anything away from him by saying KI is better. The bottom line to me is this; Irving is the hardest guard to defend in the league,and their are few who can touch that including Bledsoe.

[Qwigglez]

Will agree that Kyrie is likely the most difficult PG to guard in the NBA. IT/Curry are up there too but whatever.
Bledsoe is very solid, but Kyrie is obviously the more skilled player in terms of overall talent. Though I think Bledsoe impacts the team game more than Kyrie if that makes sense. Defensively Bledsoe stacks up better, and I think if Bledsoe was on a team with Lebron he would shine more on defense.

I think with whatever kind of deal that goes down between Suns and Cavs, Cavs fans will be happy to see what Bledsoe brings. I also wouldn't be too worried about his knees, and I think with Rose, limited minutes for Bledsoe will happen which should keep him more durable throughout the season.


Just waiting for a Woj bomb at this point, I want to see where Kyrie gets dealt.

[The Rebel]

From my perspective this is one of the worst deals floated around.

Just curious, what REALISTIC deal (no JJ, Wiggins, Harris&Murray,...) would you prefer?

I like Kyrie for Chandler-Murray-2018 Denver 1st.

I have yet to see any report that the Nuggets are even interested in Kyrie nor that they are willing to offer Murray. It has widely been reported that they have no interest in Harris and Murray though.

Fact is I want no part of Kyrie coming to the Nuggets, if his whole goal is to be the man and get all the attention and the stats than he can go somewhere that does not already have a franchise level player and a bright future.

[NavLDO]

You really don't see KI's value. he is a lot better player than Bledsoe.

Funny. EB has 1700 less Career MP than KI. And defensively, KI has NEVER been close to EB...who has 78 or 60% more BLKs and 78 or 15% more STLs. As a rebounder, KI has NEVER been close to EB...who has 293 or 20+% more TRBs. And throughout their careers, per 100 possessions, EB has more Assts.

Now, I know everything is 'offensively oriented' when comparing players, and yes, Kyrie has a .873 to .800 advantage in FT%, but when KI's FTr is only .259 to EB's is .376, it evens out, and EB makes as many FTs per36 as KI does.

But let's go to more recent times...like, this past season to see how they matchup. Interesting. Despite KI having fellow All-NBAers such as LeBron and Love, and quality players like TT on the team, and as you and other Cav fans have described, EB has been playing with 'scrubs' the likes of Warren, Bender, Chriss, and, yet shoot, our best player being Booker, it's quite telling, don't you think, that EB had a higher BPM, and equal VORP to KI this past season, and has a higher Asst ratio.

But yeah, you're probably right; KI is a lot better player than EB. It'll be interesting to see, after the trade how all these numbers stack up...

Interesting points, could be I have undervalued Bledsoe but simply saying KI is a lot better, but if he is so much on par with Irving, why in the world would the Suns be so interested in trading for KI? The fact is, KI is a much more threatening force for opposing teams to deal with,regardless of win shares,defensive efficiency and overall player impact. Bledsoe is a solid borderline all star guard, and I am not taking anything away from him by saying KI is better. The bottom line to me is this; Irving is the hardest guard to defend in the league,and their are few who can touch that including Bledsoe.

Because of two reasons:

1) Kyrie is 2.5 years younger and fits our timeline better

2) Kyrie is a 'bigger name draw' than Bledsoe is, plain and simple. The Suns need FAs to want to come to Phoenix. Booker? OK, that's nice. Jackson? Maybe, we'll have to see. But Kyrie, Booker, and ...insert new FA, and all of a sudden, maybe the Suns aren't so bad after all.

To me, that's why the Suns want Kyrie. I'm not saying Kyrie isn't better; I'm saying that to discount Bledsoe so easily is not fair. Bledsoe is more of a 1b to Kyrie's 1a, than a Kyrie is >>>>>>> Bledsoe...that's all I'm saying.

[mg]

I think the deal that makes most sense for both teams is something like Dragic, Winslow, Bam and pick swap rights.

I don't think this is too bad, but I do think it's a surefire way to guarantee LeBron's departure.

Perhaps a trade that nets the Cavs both Bender and Dragic?

If Cavs really are deadset to deal Kyrie and make that Miami type deal I would assume a follow-up trade to make LeBron happy (Melo?)

As I mentioned upthread people are focused on teams like Phoenix because of their assets but guys like Riley and Cuban know the importance of having stars on their team and have a history of making deals to acquire them. Wouldn't count out Dallas or Miami.

Edit: just noticed the double dragon reference

[Michael Lucky]

Lebron should go west after this year.

So there are no players left in the east?

Giannis until he's traded or leaves for the West too.