76ers back to fining Ben Simmons

[Nuntius]

So, I am not sure what your point is here. You - along with others - are saying that Morey is this RIDICULOUSLY difficult GM to work with...a guy who always asks for the moon. Yet, we have a concrete example of a situation where the shoe is on the other foot - where Morey was looking to rent Lowry for a couple of months (and acquire his Bird rights - which is not nothing), but Masai asks for Maxey AND Thybulle AND MULTIPLE PICKS.

This is what GM's do. ALL THE TIME.

The difference here is that Morey has been doing that for a long-ass time. Morey has a length track record of these outlandish trade offers (and so did Ainge). Masai and other GMs, not so much. Not to my knowledge, at least.

And the reality - as I am sure you know (because in all sincerity, i do think you are a smart and knowledgable poster around here) is that there are what you are asking for in public (as much for PR reasons as anything) and what you will accept in private, GM-to-GM discussions. I am sure that is what was happening with the Lowry talks (i.e. Masai would have accepted less than what that ridiculous article suggested), and I am guessing that is what is happening with the Simmons talks.

FWIW, I think that a deal involving Murray is still likely available (Simmons has specific value to the Spurs, given the difficulties they have in attracting high-level FA's, as well as having Chip Engelland on staff), but Morey is waiting to see if other players become available first. Looking at what is happening right now with teams like the Blazers and Celtics, that doesn't seem to be all that far-fetched. But I have been around long enough to know that what is leaked out there in the press is done for a LOT of reasons. Masai knew that trading probably the most iconic Raptor player of all time (apologies to VC) to a division rival was going to be a challenge, so Masai leaked a REALLY high price - out of respect to both the player and the fans. Morey is probably doing the same with Simmons. I am sure that most of the GM's in the league understand what Morey is doing, and will react accordingly.

Sure. Posturing definitely is a thing and GMs will often try to disorient other GMs. But the thing is that Morey hasn't been able to close a lot of important trade deals recently. Just like Ainge wasn't able to close a lot of important trade deals for a significant period of time before he stepped down.

I do not believe that to be a coincidence. I believe that when a GM acquires a reputation of always asking for the moon, it's just much, much easier for other GMs to hang up the phone to them. It's human psychology, imo. People tend to tune out those who they believe are acting in bad faith.

[bebopdeluxe]

So, I am not sure what your point is here. You - along with others - are saying that Morey is this RIDICULOUSLY difficult GM to work with...a guy who always asks for the moon. Yet, we have a concrete example of a situation where the shoe is on the other foot - where Morey was looking to rent Lowry for a couple of months (and acquire his Bird rights - which is not nothing), but Masai asks for Maxey AND Thybulle AND MULTIPLE PICKS.

This is what GM's do. ALL THE TIME.

The difference here is that Morey has been doing that for a long-ass time. Morey has a length track record of these outlandish trade offers (and so did Ainge). Masai and other GMs, not so much. Not to my knowledge, at least.

And the reality - as I am sure you know (because in all sincerity, i do think you are a smart and knowledgable poster around here) is that there are what you are asking for in public (as much for PR reasons as anything) and what you will accept in private, GM-to-GM discussions. I am sure that is what was happening with the Lowry talks (i.e. Masai would have accepted less than what that ridiculous article suggested), and I am guessing that is what is happening with the Simmons talks.

FWIW, I think that a deal involving Murray is still likely available (Simmons has specific value to the Spurs, given the difficulties they have in attracting high-level FA's, as well as having Chip Engelland on staff), but Morey is waiting to see if other players become available first. Looking at what is happening right now with teams like the Blazers and Celtics, that doesn't seem to be all that far-fetched. But I have been around long enough to know that what is leaked out there in the press is done for a LOT of reasons. Masai knew that trading probably the most iconic Raptor player of all time (apologies to VC) to a division rival was going to be a challenge, so Masai leaked a REALLY high price - out of respect to both the player and the fans. Morey is probably doing the same with Simmons. I am sure that most of the GM's in the league understand what Morey is doing, and will react accordingly.

Sure. Posturing definitely is a thing and GMs will often try to disorient other GMs. But the thing is that Morey hasn't been able to close a lot of important trade deals recently. Just like Ainge wasn't able to close a lot of important trade deals for a significant period of time before he stepped down.

I do not believe that to be a coincidence. I believe that when a GM acquires a reputation of always asking for the moon, it's just much, much easier for other GMs to hang up the phone to them. It's human psychology, imo. People tend to tune out those who they believe are acting in bad faith.

Do you really think that other GM's "hang up the phone" when Morey calls? Huh?

Again - I do respect you as a poster very much, but this smacks of hyperbole.

There is a REASON why guys who worked under Morey are sitting in their own chairs throughout the league. The guy knows his stuff. And, unlike you, I am not getting hung up in all of the "OMG DID YOU SEE WHAT MOREY IS ASKING FOR? OMG OMG OMG" stuff that others get wrapped up in. Either there is a deal to be made or there isn't. Morey didn't seem to have a problem doing a deal with Presti (Horford for Green). He didn't seem to have a problem doing a deal with Dallas (Richardson for Curry). Two deals last season that look fairly balanced...and two deals that Morey did to acquire two starters for a team that wound up with the 1 seed in the East.

Not bad.

At the risk of sounding condenscending, I really do think you are better than this. Morey is trying to maximize the last major chip he has to fix the personnel holes in this roster. He is playing the long game on this one (befitting the 3-5 year timeline they have with Embiid), and he has the support of the overwhelming amount of knowledgable Sixers fans. At the end of the day, I don't get wrapped up in the "HAWT TAKEZ" that populate the GB.

Do you?

[Dan Z]

It was masai who wanted 2 first round picks plus Maxey thybulle for expiring Lowry in March 2021


https://www.si.com/nba/76ers/.amp/news/nba-rumors-raptors-asking-kyle-lowry-too-much-sixers

And u wonder who was trying to rip someone off first.

No wonder why morey didn’t want to negotiate with masai AFTER the Lowry negotiating


So you have your unreasonable GM switched around. It’s masai trying to rip people off. That in turn pissed off morey.

Sure, that was an unreasonable offer by Masai. But Morey has been offering these kind of deals for a long, long time now. Long before he went to the Sixers. This wasn't the first interaction between these two GMs. If Masai keeps offering these kind of deals then he'll get a reputation as well but I think that the only reason he offered this kind of deal was exactly because he was negotiating with Morey.

So, I am not sure what your point is here. You - along with others - are saying that Morey is this RIDICULOUSLY difficult GM to work with...a guy who always asks for the moon. Yet, we have a concrete example of a situation where the shoe is on the other foot - where Morey was looking to rent Lowry for a couple of months (and acquire his Bird rights - which is not nothing), but Masai asks for Maxey AND Thybulle AND MULTIPLE PICKS.

This is what GM's do. ALL THE TIME.

And the reality - as I am sure you know (because in all sincerity, i do think you are a smart and knowledgable poster around here) is that there are what you are asking for in public (as much for PR reasons as anything) and what you will accept in private, GM-to-GM discussions. I am sure that is what was happening with the Lowry talks (i.e. Masai would have accepted less than what that ridiculous article suggested), and I am guessing that is what is happening with the Simmons talks.

FWIW, I think that a deal involving Murray is still likely available (Simmons has specific value to the Spurs, given the difficulties they have in attracting high-level FA's, as well as having Chip Engelland on staff), but Morey is waiting to see if other players become available first. Looking at what is happening right now with teams like the Blazers and Celtics, that doesn't seem to be all that far-fetched. But I have been around long enough to know that what is leaked out there in the press is done for a LOT of reasons. Masai knew that trading probably the most iconic Raptor player of all time (apologies to VC) to a division rival was going to be a challenge, so Masai leaked a REALLY high price - out of respect to both the player and the fans. Morey is probably doing the same with Simmons. I am sure that most of the GM's in the league understand what Morey is doing, and will react accordingly.

The "reputation" narrative about Morey and Ainge is something made up by the media. Morey and Ainge have made numerous trades during their time as GM' so other GM's do work with them. Plus there are only 30 teams in the NBA and no GM is going to refuse to take a call from any of them. At a minimum they'll listen to their offers.

[taikibansei]

Simmons is under contract for another 3.5 seasons.

Just like any other team competing for wins. Sixers don’t have a gun held to their head to move Simmons. If Simmons were expiring. He would be moved by now.

This is unprecedented what Simmons is trying to do. Hold out and not report.

The nba players nba gotten too much power. The next cba will invoke the ben Simmons rule clause if Simmons gets his way trying to not honor his contract.

You simply don’t reward this behavior.

The Sixers don't have to trade Simmons because Simmons has asked for a trade. The Sixers have to trade Simmons because that's the only way to improve their team and get Embiid the help he needs.

And Morey is merely waiting for a trade offer "to improve the team and get Embiid the help he needs." That's all he's doing...and it's driving you crazy (why you keep posting and posting on this topic).

Almost all the Simmons trades I've seen posted to RealGM--and/or rumored in the media--make the Sixers worse both for the short-term and the long-term. And yes, it's understandable--other GMs (and RealGM posters) are hoping for a panic trade whereby their team gets an all-NBA talent (and despite his flaws Ben Simmons is such a talent) for pennies on the dollar.

Equally understandable, however, is Morey's desire to wait. Injuries are starting to pile up throughout the league, as are the disappointments in several key markets. Maybe a star gets injured or demands out, or maybe Simmons himself comes around and decides to end his unpaid vacation (and return to try to improve his trade value). Quite possibly, a GM somewhere soon will begin to feel the need to make a "win now" move...and the offers for Simmons will improve accordingly.

Or they won't...and Morey continues to do nothing. I mean, again, it's not as if the crap people are suggesting here--or supposedly offering per the media--represent getting Embiid "the help he needs." Given the lose-lose situation this became once Simmons' camp made it clear he would no longer play for the team (and why he wouldn't play , and where he would deign to play ), Morey has had a tough hand to play. And yes, Morey may ultimately decide to go with one of these crap offers. However, the crap trade offers (that again hurt the team short-term and long-term) will continue to be available moving forward; might as well wait a little longer on the slight possibility of something better coming along.

[kuclas]

It was masai who wanted 2 first round picks plus Maxey thybulle for expiring Lowry in March 2021


https://www.si.com/nba/76ers/.amp/news/nba-rumors-raptors-asking-kyle-lowry-too-much-sixers

And u wonder who was trying to rip someone off first.

No wonder why morey didn’t want to negotiate with masai AFTER the Lowry negotiating


So you have your unreasonable GM switched around. It’s masai trying to rip people off. That in turn pissed off morey.

Sure, that was an unreasonable offer by Masai. But Morey has been offering these kind of deals for a long, long time now. Long before he went to the Sixers. This wasn't the first interaction between these two GMs. If Masai keeps offering these kind of deals then he'll get a reputation as well but I think that the only reason he offered this kind of deal was exactly because he was negotiating with Morey.

So, I am not sure what your point is here. You - along with others - are saying that Morey is this RIDICULOUSLY difficult GM to work with...a guy who always asks for the moon. Yet, we have a concrete example of a situation where the shoe is on the other foot - where Morey was looking to rent Lowry for a couple of months (and acquire his Bird rights - which is not nothing), but Masai asks for Maxey AND Thybulle AND MULTIPLE PICKS.

This is what GM's do. ALL THE TIME.

And the reality - as I am sure you know (because in all sincerity, i do think you are a smart and knowledgable poster around here) is that there are what you are asking for in public (as much for PR reasons as anything) and what you will accept in private, GM-to-GM discussions. I am sure that is what was happening with the Lowry talks (i.e. Masai would have accepted less than what that ridiculous article suggested), and I am guessing that is what is happening with the Simmons talks.

FWIW, I think that a deal involving Murray is still likely available (Simmons has specific value to the Spurs, given the difficulties they have in attracting high-level FA's, as well as having Chip Engelland on staff), but Morey is waiting to see if other players become available first. Looking at what is happening right now with teams like the Blazers and Celtics, that doesn't seem to be all that far-fetched. But I have been around long enough to know that what is leaked out there in the press is done for a LOT of reasons. Masai knew that trading probably the most iconic Raptor player of all time (apologies to VC) to a division rival was going to be a challenge, so Masai leaked a REALLY high price - out of respect to both the player and the fans. Morey is probably doing the same with Simmons. I am sure that most of the GM's in the league understand what Morey is doing, and will react accordingly.

Masai didn’t want to help the 76ers out by trading for Lowry at trade deadline. It’s as plain as daylight.

He didn’t want to help the heat or lakers out as well who were interested in Lowry at trade deadline.

Every Tom dick and harry thought a Maxey for expiring rental in lowry was as fair as daylight. But Masai rather let lowry expire than hell bent on helping out another team.

He’s ruthless. If you thought he had loyalty to lowry. Forget it. He’s got his own agenda. He traded derozan who was pissed. And derozan took less than max money to resign with raptors.

I do think big egos are at play here. But really it’s not the GM. It’s Simmons camp who is all at fault here. He’s under contract. Long term contract. Just because his feelings are hurt he doesn’t want to play? It’s also on klutch management. They both share the blame. Klutch can get away with it with AD Misbehaving cause he was expiring. But New Orleans wouldn’t put up with that crap if AD had 4 years left. No way. They turned down the same offer feb 2019 as was available summer of 2019 when AD was finally traded. Only difference was nba rigged it so New Orleans jumped to 1 in the draft and lakers pick jumped to 4 in the same draft. If New Orleans didn’t get those two things happening. AD doesn’t end up in LA.

[kuclas]

Look morey asked for dame. Portland said no. Take CJ

Morey sorta of ask for fox plus for Simmons. Sacramento said no. Sacramento said take anyone but fox/Halliburton

Morey asked about Ingram. New Orleans said take anyone except Ingram or Zion

Boston called. Asking for Simmons. Morey said let’s talk Brown. Boston said no brown or Tatum. Take anyone else you want.

Minnesota asked for Simmons. But don’t take ant man or towns. Take anyone else.

Same thing with golden state. They said Wiggins/wiseman plus the 14th pick. Morey said no

So round and round we go.

[bebopdeluxe]

Simmons is under contract for another 3.5 seasons.

Just like any other team competing for wins. Sixers don’t have a gun held to their head to move Simmons. If Simmons were expiring. He would be moved by now.

This is unprecedented what Simmons is trying to do. Hold out and not report.

The nba players nba gotten too much power. The next cba will invoke the ben Simmons rule clause if Simmons gets his way trying to not honor his contract.

You simply don’t reward this behavior.

The Sixers don't have to trade Simmons because Simmons has asked for a trade. The Sixers have to trade Simmons because that's the only way to improve their team and get Embiid the help he needs.

And Morey is merely waiting for a trade offer "to improve the team and get Embiid the help he needs." That's all he's doing...and it's driving you crazy (why you keep posting and posting on this topic).

Almost all the Simmons trades I've seen posted to RealGM--and/or rumored in the media--make the Sixers worse both for the short-term and the long-term. And yes, it's understandable--other GMs (and RealGM posters) are hoping for a panic trade whereby their team gets an all-NBA talent (and despite his flaws Ben Simmons is such a talent) for pennies on the dollar.

Equally understandable, however, is Morey's desire to wait. Injuries are starting to pile up throughout the league, as are the disappointments in several key markets. Maybe a star gets injured or demands out, or maybe Simmons himself comes around and decides to end his unpaid vacation (and return to try to improve his trade value). Quite possibly, a GM somewhere soon will begin to feel the need to make a "win now" move...and the offers for Simmons will improve accordingly.

Or they won't...and Morey continues to do nothing. I mean, again, it's not as if the crap people are suggesting here--or supposedly offering per the media--represent getting Embiid "the help he needs." Given the lose-lose situation this became once Simmons' camp made it clear he would no longer play for the team (and why he wouldn't play , and where he would deign to play ), Morey has had a tough hand to play. And yes, Morey may ultimately decide to go with one of these crap offers. However, the crap trade offers (that again hurt the team short-term and long-term) will continue to be available moving forward; might as well wait a little longer on the slight possibility of something better coming along.

One of the best posts in an 80-page thread. Well done.

[rtiff68]

Here’s a CBA legal trade (per the Trade Machine) that won’t happen, but just for fun…

PHI: Sabonis, LeVert
IND: Simmons, future 1st

Why for the Sixers: at this point, how many Simmons trades leave PHI arguably just as good as they were with him? This gives them a ton of roster versatility— they can go big, small, defensively oriented or offensively oriented, etc.

Why for the Pacers: they need to blow things up. How many trade scenarios involving Sabonis and LeVert can you come up with where IND ends up with a better player than both of them (who also happens to be 25) and a future asset?

[kuclas]

Here’s a CBA legal trade (per the Trade Machine) that won’t happen, but just for fun…

PHI: Sabonis, LeVert
IND: Simmons, future 1st

Why for the Sixers: at this point, how many Simmons trades leave PHI arguably just as good as they were with him? This gives them a ton of roster versatility— they can go big, small, defensively oriented or offensively oriented, etc.

Why for the Pacers: they need to blow things up. How many trade scenarios involving Sabonis and LeVert can you come up with where IND ends up with a better player than both of them (who also happens to be 25) and a future asset?

Because Sabonis will be on the bench for 30 min a game.

That’s why the trade won’t work.

Horford embiid didn’t work.

Sabonis embiid won’t work.

[Nate505]

Dec 15 has come and gone, feels like Morey isn't going to budge on any Simmons trade unless Embiid starts making noise about the issue or Lillard/Beal become available unexpectedly. What a waste...

Or Simmons could like, come back and play, maybe improve his trade value (though he's been such an unprofessional piece of garbage that ship may have sailed), and then maybe get out of there.

But nah, that won't happen.

[Tor_Raps]

Dec 15 has come and gone, feels like Morey isn't going to budge on any Simmons trade unless Embiid starts making noise about the issue or Lillard/Beal become available unexpectedly. What a waste...

Or Simmons could like, come back and play, maybe improve his trade value (though he's been such an unprofessional piece of garbage that ship may have sailed), and then maybe get out of there.

But nah, that won't happen.

Agreed that Simmons could have handled it better but that reflects on his character somewhat. This doesn't help the Sixers though so they'll need to do something to improve their situation.

They're not the first franchise to deal with a disgruntled star. Trust me, anything you guys get will be better than the trash we got back for Vince Carter in his prime lol.

[rtiff68]

Here’s a CBA legal trade (per the Trade Machine) that won’t happen, but just for fun…

PHI: Sabonis, LeVert
IND: Simmons, future 1st

Why for the Sixers: at this point, how many Simmons trades leave PHI arguably just as good as they were with him? This gives them a ton of roster versatility— they can go big, small, defensively oriented or offensively oriented, etc.

Why for the Pacers: they need to blow things up. How many trade scenarios involving Sabonis and LeVert can you come up with where IND ends up with a better player than both of them (who also happens to be 25) and a future asset?

Because Sabonis will be on the bench for 30 min a game.

That’s why the trade won’t work.

Horford embiid didn’t work.

Sabonis embiid won’t work.

A key point that you’re leaving out: those Embiid/Horford line-ups also had Simmons at the 1 (complete non-shooter) and Josh Richardson at the 2 (.341 from 3 that season). With Horford (.350) and Embiid (.331), that team had massive spacing issues, and that is why it didn’t work. Maxey is a better shooter than Simmons and Richardson, and Seth Curry is one of the best shooters in the league.

Trying to make an apples-to-apples comparison between Embiid/Horford and the hypothetical Embiid/Sabonis makes little sense.

[kuclas]

Dec 15 has come and gone, feels like Morey isn't going to budge on any Simmons trade unless Embiid starts making noise about the issue or Lillard/Beal become available unexpectedly. What a waste...

Or Simmons could like, come back and play, maybe improve his trade value (though he's been such an unprofessional piece of garbage that ship may have sailed), and then maybe get out of there.

But nah, that won't happen.

Agreed that Simmons could have handled it better but that reflects on his character somewhat. This doesn't help the Sixers though so they'll need to do something to improve their situation.

They're not the first franchise to deal with a disgruntled star. Trust me, anything you guys get will be better than the trash we got back for Vince Carter in his prime lol.

Vince had 2.5 years when he was traded from a poorly performing raptors team.

Again this is unprecedented a player of Simmons contract length (4 years) and team coming off 1 seed and competing has a player demanded out.

Never has ever happen before. Ever

Usually it’s on friendly terms (Paul George to Clippers) but those guys didn’t cut off contact with their prospective teams and refused to show up.

Simmons team (klutch) just has not gone around this the right way. If he had shown up. Played 10-15 games. Put up his usual 16/8/8 ben would have been long gone by now.
Rather he sits at home trying to plot out the next mental health evaluation bogus zoom calls he’s got to make in between his call of duty video games.

[kuclas]

Here’s a CBA legal trade (per the Trade Machine) that won’t happen, but just for fun…

PHI: Sabonis, LeVert
IND: Simmons, future 1st

Why for the Sixers: at this point, how many Simmons trades leave PHI arguably just as good as they were with him? This gives them a ton of roster versatility— they can go big, small, defensively oriented or offensively oriented, etc.

Why for the Pacers: they need to blow things up. How many trade scenarios involving Sabonis and LeVert can you come up with where IND ends up with a better player than both of them (who also happens to be 25) and a future asset?

Because Sabonis will be on the bench for 30 min a game.

That’s why the trade won’t work.

Horford embiid didn’t work.

Sabonis embiid won’t work.

A key point that you’re leaving out: those Embiid/Horford line-ups also had Simmons at the 1 (complete non-shooter) and Josh Richardson at the 2 (.341 from 3 that season). With Horford (.350) and Embiid (.331), that team had massive spacing issues, and that is why it didn’t work. Maxey is a better shooter than Simmons and Richardson, and Seth Curry is one of the best shooters in the league.

Trying to make an apples-to-apples comparison between Embiid/Horford and the hypothetical Embiid/Sabonis makes little sense.

The issue is sixers have no wings on perimeters to defend. And it will become worst with Sabonis/Harris/embiid/thybulle/curry lineup. Horrible wing lineup.

Sabonis/Harris/embiid/green/Maxey isn’t much better

Sabonis/Harris/embiid/Milton/curry is horrible

I can’t find any situation where sixers can defend Vs wings.

[Tomjas]

Here’s a CBA legal trade (per the Trade Machine) that won’t happen, but just for fun…

PHI: Sabonis, LeVert
IND: Simmons, future 1st

Why for the Sixers: at this point, how many Simmons trades leave PHI arguably just as good as they were with him? This gives them a ton of roster versatility— they can go big, small, defensively oriented or offensively oriented, etc.

Why for the Pacers: they need to blow things up. How many trade scenarios involving Sabonis and LeVert can you come up with where IND ends up with a better player than both of them (who also happens to be 25) and a future asset?

Because Sabonis will be on the bench for 30 min a game.

That’s why the trade won’t work.

Horford embiid didn’t work.

Sabonis embiid won’t work.

A key point that you’re leaving out: those Embiid/Horford line-ups also had Simmons at the 1 (complete non-shooter) and Josh Richardson at the 2 (.341 from 3 that season). With Horford (.350) and Embiid (.331), that team had massive spacing issues, and that is why it didn’t work. Maxey is a better shooter than Simmons and Richardson, and Seth Curry is one of the best shooters in the league.

Trying to make an apples-to-apples comparison between Embiid/Horford and the hypothetical Embiid/Sabonis makes little sense.

Harris was & still is the Sixers biggest issue

One of the reasons they traded for him was that he was a 40% shooter from 3

He’s currently at .299 on lesser volume

He’s also a bad fit next to Joel on offence and a below average defender

Sabonis could play next to Joel but having Harris here makes it pointless

[Tor_Raps]

Or Simmons could like, come back and play, maybe improve his trade value (though he's been such an unprofessional piece of garbage that ship may have sailed), and then maybe get out of there.

But nah, that won't happen.

Agreed that Simmons could have handled it better but that reflects on his character somewhat. This doesn't help the Sixers though so they'll need to do something to improve their situation.

They're not the first franchise to deal with a disgruntled star. Trust me, anything you guys get will be better than the trash we got back for Vince Carter in his prime lol.

Vince had 2.5 years when he was traded from a poorly performing raptors team.

Again this is unprecedented a player of Simmons contract length (4 years) and team coming off 1 seed and competing has a player demanded out.

Never has ever happen before. Ever

Usually it’s on friendly terms (Paul George to Clippers) but those guys didn’t cut off contact with their prospective teams and refused to show up.

Simmons team (klutch) just has not gone around this the right way. If he had shown up. Played 10-15 games. Put up his usual 16/8/8 ben would have been long gone by now.
Rather he sits at home trying to plot out the next mental health evaluation bogus zoom calls he’s got to make in between his call of duty video games.

I'd say the difference between 2.5 and 4 years is semantics. Both are locked in what most consider longterm.

Agreed that if Simmons played then he probably would have been traded by now. But that would have came at the expense of the team he will be going to so that really wouldn't be in his interest either. I guess we'll find out how it ends.

[PennSports]

Dec 15 has come and gone, feels like Morey isn't going to budge on any Simmons trade unless Embiid starts making noise about the issue or Lillard/Beal become available unexpectedly. What a waste...

it is only a waste if you trade for another albatross contract like McCollum who does not move the needle. That goes from wasting 30 games of Embiid's prime to wasting the entirety of it. It will make the Sixers better than they currently are but still not good enough. I would sooner take picks and prospects than something that handcuffs me to Tobias and CJ taking up all my cap for the next 3 years. Optionality route >>>>

[PennSports]

So, I am not sure what your point is here. You - along with others - are saying that Morey is this RIDICULOUSLY difficult GM to work with...a guy who always asks for the moon. Yet, we have a concrete example of a situation where the shoe is on the other foot - where Morey was looking to rent Lowry for a couple of months (and acquire his Bird rights - which is not nothing), but Masai asks for Maxey AND Thybulle AND MULTIPLE PICKS.

This is what GM's do. ALL THE TIME.

The difference here is that Morey has been doing that for a long-ass time. Morey has a length track record of these outlandish trade offers (and so did Ainge). Masai and other GMs, not so much. Not to my knowledge, at least.

And the reality - as I am sure you know (because in all sincerity, i do think you are a smart and knowledgable poster around here) is that there are what you are asking for in public (as much for PR reasons as anything) and what you will accept in private, GM-to-GM discussions. I am sure that is what was happening with the Lowry talks (i.e. Masai would have accepted less than what that ridiculous article suggested), and I am guessing that is what is happening with the Simmons talks.

FWIW, I think that a deal involving Murray is still likely available (Simmons has specific value to the Spurs, given the difficulties they have in attracting high-level FA's, as well as having Chip Engelland on staff), but Morey is waiting to see if other players become available first. Looking at what is happening right now with teams like the Blazers and Celtics, that doesn't seem to be all that far-fetched. But I have been around long enough to know that what is leaked out there in the press is done for a LOT of reasons. Masai knew that trading probably the most iconic Raptor player of all time (apologies to VC) to a division rival was going to be a challenge, so Masai leaked a REALLY high price - out of respect to both the player and the fans. Morey is probably doing the same with Simmons. I am sure that most of the GM's in the league understand what Morey is doing, and will react accordingly.

Sure. Posturing definitely is a thing and GMs will often try to disorient other GMs. But the thing is that Morey hasn't been able to close a lot of important trade deals recently. Just like Ainge wasn't able to close a lot of important trade deals for a significant period of time before he stepped down.

I do not believe that to be a coincidence. I believe that when a GM acquires a reputation of always asking for the moon, it's just much, much easier for other GMs to hang up the phone to them. It's human psychology, imo. People tend to tune out those who they believe are acting in bad faith.

People said the same **** about Hinkie yet he made by far the most trades in the league during his time with final say in the org. Then people turn around and say he got fired because he wasn't controlling the narrative and never talked to the media. So now we have Morey doing the same while leaking stuff to "play the game" and give reporters bites at the apple and its still unacceptable. You can't win. They hate the process.

[Tor_Raps]

Dec 15 has come and gone, feels like Morey isn't going to budge on any Simmons trade unless Embiid starts making noise about the issue or Lillard/Beal become available unexpectedly. What a waste...

it is only a waste if you trade for another albatross contract like McCollum who does not move the needle. That goes from wasting 30 games of Embiid's prime to wasting the entirety of it. It will make the Sixers better than they currently are but still not good enough. I would sooner take picks and prospects than something that handcuffs me to Tobias and CJ taking up all my cap for the next 3 years. Optionality route >>>>

The thing with waiting is that the Sixers have 0 clue on who will eventually make a trade request and whether they'd want to come to Philly. How many teams have traded a disgruntled star for a better one ever? Morey seems to be delusional here and is probably kicking himself for not going harder after Harden.

Picks and prospects will probably lead to an eventual Embiid trade request. This isn't 2K where guys will wait patiently for the team to figure it out. They already blew it by letting Butler go so let's see how the Simmons situation ends.

[Flash4thewin]

Agreed that Simmons could have handled it better but that reflects on his character somewhat. This doesn't help the Sixers though so they'll need to do something to improve their situation.

They're not the first franchise to deal with a disgruntled star. Trust me, anything you guys get will be better than the trash we got back for Vince Carter in his prime lol.

Vince had 2.5 years when he was traded from a poorly performing raptors team.

Again this is unprecedented a player of Simmons contract length (4 years) and team coming off 1 seed and competing has a player demanded out.

Never has ever happen before. Ever

Usually it’s on friendly terms (Paul George to Clippers) but those guys didn’t cut off contact with their prospective teams and refused to show up.

Simmons team (klutch) just has not gone around this the right way. If he had shown up. Played 10-15 games. Put up his usual 16/8/8 ben would have been long gone by now.
Rather he sits at home trying to plot out the next mental health evaluation bogus zoom calls he’s got to make in between his call of duty video games.

I'd say the difference between 2.5 and 4 years is semantics. Both are locked in what most consider longterm.

Agreed that if Simmons played then he probably would have been traded by now. But that would have came at the expense of the team he will be going to so that really wouldn't be in his interest either. I guess we'll find out how it ends.

2.5 to 4 year is semantics in what universe? You have to be trolling to make that statement.