Tatum VS Luka

[Jkam31]

However, I would argue that if Luka and Tatum swapped teams today, the Boston Celtics become a better team with Luka.

Why would you argue that?

Brunson on DAL per 100 poss: 24/6/8, 58% TS
Brunson on NYK per 100 poss: 34/5/9, 60% TS

KP on DAL per 100: 32/14/3, 56% TS
KP on WAS per 100: 35/13/4, 62% TS

Reggie Bullock on NYK per 100: 18/6/3, 58% TS
Reggie Bullock on DAL per 100: 13/6/2, 57% TS

I don't think there's a ton of evidence that Luka elevates other players on offense, and that's ignoring his defensive issues.

"why do players have worse #'s when they have lower usage?"

Not gonna scroll up to reply to the guy you quoted by what the actual hell is bringing up Bullock as a reason luka doesn’t elevate his teammates

[CoP]

"why do players have worse #'s when they have lower usage?"

Usually efficiency numbers decrease or plateau with increased volume, but that wasn't the case with those examples.

[Wagonband]

Why would you argue that?

Brunson on DAL per 100 poss: 24/6/8, 58% TS
Brunson on NYK per 100 poss: 34/5/9, 60% TS

KP on DAL per 100: 32/14/3, 56% TS
KP on WAS per 100: 35/13/4, 62% TS

Reggie Bullock on NYK per 100: 18/6/3, 58% TS
Reggie Bullock on DAL per 100: 13/6/2, 57% TS

I don't think there's a ton of evidence that Luka elevates other players on offense, and that's ignoring his defensive issues.

"why do players have worse #'s when they have lower usage?"

Not gonna scroll up to reply to the guy you quoted by what the actual hell is bringing up Bullock as a reason luka doesn’t elevate his teammates

Yeah... Guys like DFS started really to show star potentially once they left the Mavs

[Godymas]

Why would you argue that?

Brunson on DAL per 100 poss: 24/6/8, 58% TS
Brunson on NYK per 100 poss: 34/5/9, 60% TS

KP on DAL per 100: 32/14/3, 56% TS
KP on WAS per 100: 35/13/4, 62% TS

Reggie Bullock on NYK per 100: 18/6/3, 58% TS
Reggie Bullock on DAL per 100: 13/6/2, 57% TS

I don't think there's a ton of evidence that Luka elevates other players on offense, and that's ignoring his defensive issues.

"why do players have worse #'s when they have lower usage?"

Not gonna scroll up to reply to the guy you quoted by what the actual hell is bringing up Bullock as a reason luka doesn’t elevate his teammates

he originally quoted me and there is a very good reason why i didn't bother to even reply and i'm sure you understand why

[Texas Chuck]

So this whole idea that Luka doesn't elevate teammates eh?

Remember his 2nd year(second year. 2nd) when he led a pretty mediocre Dallas roster to the most efficient offense the league had ever seen up to that point in its entire existence? Remember that?

And before you tell me it was just what happened after that with this league wide offensive explosion, the gap between Dallas #1 offense and the Clippers #2 offense was the same as between the Clippers and a league average offense. In other words 2nd year Luka led an absolutely dominant offense.

But nah he doesn't elevate anyone because we can post contextless box scores lol. What are we even doing here?

And that's without getting into data like Bullock, Kleber, and DFS being 3 of the top 5 3-pt shooters in the league in terms of the quality of 3's they were getting(percentage open or wide-open). That's ignoring all the shot creation data that shows Luka has lapped the league the past 3 years in quality shots created for all teammates.

I get some don't like him. That's cool. Nobody should have to be a fan of anyone and I know the ref baiting is a turn off and he's fat and some of you are more into aesthetics than results for odd reasons. But we can't just create false narratives because we don't like a dude.

He's an offensive genius. And it goes well beyond his own scoring(which is elite too btw lol).

[NCHeels2008]

I'm worried Luka's gonna be Harden 2.0, I'd probably pick him for like 20 of the 30 teams based on fit still because he's a better player. But Tatum is more versatile and honestly would be a much easier 2nd fiddle than Luka.

[CoP]

News headline: Offensive genius leads Dallas to offensive rankings of 9th, 15th, and 6th the last three years.

Damn, I would think that an offensive genius could at least get his team into the top 5 in offensive rating in the last 3 years. Drat.

Wait, it must be his teammates' fault, right? OK, so let's look at Doncic's individual offensive rating. Oh, it was lower than Tatum's this season? Wow lol. Still pretty good for an offensive genius, though. I guess.

Hold on, let's look at his offensive on/off. That's what will really tell the picture of this offensive genius, right? How his team's offensive rating is with him on the floor vs. when he's off? Especially since Dallas' bench is such trash and the Celtics' bench is so deep! Wow, Doncic's offensive on/off this season was +5.9. That's pretty good! Oh, wait. Tatum's was +7.7? Still, +5.9 is good. For an offensive genius. I guess.

Such a huge gap on offense between Luka and Tatum, so much so that Tatum has a higher team offensive rating, a higher individual offensive rating, and a better offensive on/off this season.

Must be Jason Kidd's fault. Or Cuban's. Or the city of Dallas. Or Luka's old teammates. Or Luka's current teammates. Or Luka's next teammates.

[Texas Chuck]

News headline: Offensive genius leads Dallas to offensive rankings of 9th, 15th, and 6th the last three years.

Damn, I would think that an offensive genius could at least get his team into the top 5 in offensive rating in the last 3 years. Drat.

Wait, it must be his teammates' fault, right? OK, so let's look at Doncic's individual offensive rating. Oh, it was lower than Tatum's this season? Wow lol. Still pretty good for an offensive genius, though. I guess.

Hold on, let's look at his offensive on/off. That's what will really tell the picture of this offensive genius, right? How his team's offensive rating is with him on the floor vs. when he's off? Especially since Dallas' bench is such trash and the Celtics' bench is so deep! Wow, Doncic's offensive on/off this season was +5.9. That's pretty good! Oh, wait. Tatum's was +7.7? Still, +5.9 is good. For an offensive genius. I guess.

Such a huge gap on offense between Luka and Tatum, so much so that Tatum has a higher team offensive rating, a higher individual offensive rating, and a better offensive on/off this season.

Must be Jason Kidd's fault. Or Cuban's. Or the city of Dallas. Or Luka's old teammates. Or Luka's current teammates. Or Luka's next teammates.

This is an odd rant. I said nothing negative about Tatum. I simply pointed out that Luka is in fact a brilliant offensive player and frankly you look a little silly attempting to argue anything else.

And yes I would hope we could look at the Celtics and Mavs rosters outside of their best player and think that might have something to do with it, but nah.

So toxic how zero sum so many posters here make everything. The reality is both of these are great players. And Luka's greatness takes nothing away from Tatum's so....

[CoP]

News headline: Offensive genius leads Dallas to offensive rankings of 9th, 15th, and 6th the last three years.

Damn, I would think that an offensive genius could at least get his team into the top 5 in offensive rating in the last 3 years. Drat.

Wait, it must be his teammates' fault, right? OK, so let's look at Doncic's individual offensive rating. Oh, it was lower than Tatum's this season? Wow lol. Still pretty good for an offensive genius, though. I guess.

Hold on, let's look at his offensive on/off. That's what will really tell the picture of this offensive genius, right? How his team's offensive rating is with him on the floor vs. when he's off? Especially since Dallas' bench is such trash and the Celtics' bench is so deep! Wow, Doncic's offensive on/off this season was +5.9. That's pretty good! Oh, wait. Tatum's was +7.7? Still, +5.9 is good. For an offensive genius. I guess.

Such a huge gap on offense between Luka and Tatum, so much so that Tatum has a higher team offensive rating, a higher individual offensive rating, and a better offensive on/off this season.

Must be Jason Kidd's fault. Or Cuban's. Or the city of Dallas. Or Luka's old teammates. Or Luka's current teammates. Or Luka's next teammates.

This is an odd rant. I said nothing negative about Tatum. I simply pointed out that Luka is in fact a brilliant offensive player and frankly you look a little silly attempting to argue anything else.

And yes I would hope we could look at the Celtics and Mavs rosters outside of their best player and think that might have something to do with it, but nah.

So toxic how zero sum so many posters here make everything. The reality is both of these are great players. And Luka's greatness takes nothing away from Tatum's so....

I agree that both are great players. However, the thread title is "Tatum VS Luka"

If you're uncomfortable with the idea of comparing and contrasting those two players, you're more than welcome to not enter or post in the thread.

Cheers Chuck.

[Cricket23]

Big fan of both players, but I do wonder about the Doncic makes the players around him better narrative. Of course he's an offensive force who commands extra attention from the defense. This of course can lead to easier shots for his teammates. Does getting easier shots equate to becoming better players? I think in order for a player to become better they need to take on more responsibility, and playing with Doncic simply doesn't allow for that. I don't see this as a negative towards Doncic, but I question if it can limit his team's success.