[2017 NBA Draft Discussion] - (1: PHI, 2: LAL, 3: BOS)!

[Celts17Pride]

Because Markelle Fultz will probably be a Celtic and the Celtics always overrate all their prospects.

[Tai]

If Fultz's shooting ability is for real, then yes, he's the better prospect.

[nomansland]

Balls jump shot form?

I do think there is a slim chance Balls pass first mentality could unlock something special. He would thrive under D'Antonie.

Saw Ball live a while back and at half time he was shooting 3's. Missed about 6 in a row and then made 14 straight. Not exaggerating.

What I think a lot of analysts would argue is that Ball played in a much better system and had much better teammates. UCLA plays basketball like a machine whereas UW looks like streetball sometimes. So it's a lot easier for Ball to look good whereas Fultz had to carry the load the majority of the time.

[Tetlak]

Fultz is projected to be an unstoppable scorer off of the PnR, and will be better at creating his own shot.

That's what.

[Scizzup]

You need your guards to be great at pnr and scoring off dribble in this era. Fultz project to be that. He also have great length/defensive potential

[Warriorfan]

If Fultz is like James Harden and Ball is like Jason Kidd more teams would want the potentially dominant scorer over the generational distributer

[Duke4life831]

Balls jump shot form?

I do think there is a slim chance Balls pass first mentality could unlock something special. He would thrive under D'Antonie.

Saw Ball live a while back and at half time he was shooting 3's. Missed about 6 in a row and then made 14 straight. Not exaggerating.

What I think a lot of analysts would argue is that Ball played in a much better system and had much better teammates. UCLA plays basketball like a machine whereas UW looks like streetball sometimes. So it's a lot easier for Ball to look good whereas Fultz had to carry the load the majority of the time.

A reason Ball played in a better system is because of Ball. If you watched UCLA the year before, the team looked completely different. They went from an average offensive team to one of the best offenses that college ball has seen in a long time. Also yes he did have better teammates than Fultz. But lets not act like Ball joined some team that was already a force in the Pac-12. Last year UCLA went 15-17. The roster this year was very similar except for the upgrade of Leaf over Tony Parker (who was a pretty good college player) and all of a sudden UCLA has an elite offense and goes 31-5.

Again Im not saying Ball didnt have the advantage in teammates, Washington had a bad team the year before and was gutted by early entrees to the draft and Fultz had no chance to succeed. But Ball was a major factor for the massive system improvement for UCLA and their success.

[enigmatics]

Better scoring. Can play the 2.
Ball looks very passive at times.

Plus no Lavar Fultz.

[Duke4life831]

It really depends on what type of prospect you like better. Fultz is the best scoring guard prospect since Kyrie, so if youre looking for a scoring guard, ya Fultz is definitely the better prospect. But if youre looking for an elite facilitator Ball is the guy. I actually think a lot depends on both of their shooting. Fultz was never a great shooter in high school and with his really poor FT shooting, some may question how legit was his 3pt shooting numbers. While Ball you can ask the same thing with his shooting form.

I actually think Celtics and Lakers would get the same player even if their positions were switched. I think if LA was #1 and Boston was #2, we would see Ball go #1 and Fultz go #2. Ball fits LA much better and Im pretty sure Luke Walton cant wait to get Ball to fill out his system. While Fultz fits Boston much better. Boston desperately needs another scorer to pair alongside IT, they need another guy that they know can get his own shot. But since Boston has the #1 pick its probably going to be Fultz then Ball in the draft.

[Revived]

Fultz doesn't have a shooting form that makes you want to throw up everything you ate the last two days.

[neno]

According to the poll results the Ball family has 2 accounts on here

[jason bourne]

Fultz looks like a better overall player than Ball. Ball could be the better PG, but I'm not sure since he's not working out for the Celtics and only for the Lakers. The NBA will be a big step up for him. UCLA plays a transition game, so there's that. Yeah, LaVar Ball has taken away the focus from his son to upon himself. It's not fair for Lonzo, but what else can one judge all of the weirdness that is LaVar Ball going on. I think #1 will be Fultz. Not sure if there is anyone else up there. If Fultz doesn't go #1, then he goes to the Lakers at #2. Thus, Fultz is #1 or #2 in my book. I'm not sure where Ball will go since teams are talking about LaVar Ball now. Lonzo could fall to #4 - 9 range. If the Celtics take him, then it won't sit well with the fans. If the Lakers take Lonzo, then I think they'll give him a break and give him and his father a wait and see attitude. #2 is the best spot for Ball. What's sickening about Ball being picked #2 by the Lakers is LaVar Ball was right.

Otherwise, I think the 76ers and Suns may pass on him based on the talk. It could be smoke, but I don't think so. That leaves him for the Kings. Sactown Royalty is saying that off the court activity should not determine their pick. Thus, the Kings will prevent Ball from sliding further.

[RookieStar]

Lavar has been curiously quiet these last few days. Wonder if he got word from the Lakers to stfu.

i reckon it's a show of good faith to prove he can stfu for prolonged periods of time

What would be the point? Once Lonzo is drafted by the Lakers, he can go back to being the same as he was before. Can't wait until he starts criticizing the likes of Russell and Ingram.

I thought he only blames white guys? So Mozgov and Zubac maybe?

[Drax]

If Fultz really is that creative in the pick'n'roll as advertised and can do it at the NBA level he's can be the coaches best weapon right away. Crashing a defense is vital to a good offense. That's the main reason for me.

[Z Cabarkapa]

Funny, just had this conversation (one where you said your words out loud ) during half time yesterday. Consensus was that Ball has the highest ceiling but that Fultz was the surest bet.

For me, Ball is probably the best pure PG prospect since Kidd (remember Curry/CP3 were not projected to become what they are now). Ball has great size for the position at 6'-6", above average athleticism, tremendous court vision and the ability to accurately deliver every type of pass. Plus he not only shoots 40+% from 3 but also finished at a high level at the rim. He is certainly not the defensive player Kidd was at this point, but with his size and good coaching he can develop on that end. In addition, he plays with an exciting flair that brings "oohs and ahhhs" from the spectators, which means better ticket sales, local advertising, etc.

Fultz, on the other hand, also has great size but is a better athlete, a better scorer, a solid playmaker and is much readier to play NBA Defense. He will most likely be better than Lonzo early in his career but the question is whether Ball has the potential to pass him by after a few years. As much as I think Fultz would be ready to play right away on the Celtics, the way Ball electifies the crowd I think they might be better off developing Ball and playing the long game. So, I think I take Ball.

[Duke4life831]

Funny, just had this conversation (one where you said your words out loud ) during half time yesterday. Consensus was that Ball has the highest ceiling but that Fultz was the surest bet.

For me, Ball is probably the best pure PG prospect since Kidd (remember Curry/CP3 were not projected to become what they are now). Ball has great size for the position at 6'-6", above average athleticism, tremendous court vision and the ability to accurately deliver every type of pass. Plus he not only shoots 40+% from 3 but also finished at a high level at the rim. He is certainly not the defensive player Kidd was at this point, but with his size and good coaching he can develop on that end. In addition, he plays with an exciting flair that brings "oohs and ahhhs" from the spectators, which means better ticket sales, local advertising, etc.

Fultz, on the other hand, also has great size but is a better athlete, a better scorer, a solid playmaker and is much readier to play NBA Defense. He will most likely be better than Lonzo early in his career but the question is whether Ball has the potential to pass him by after a few years. As much as I think Fultz would be ready to play right away on the Celtics, the way Ball electifies the crowd I think they might be better off developing Ball and playing the long game. So, I think I take Ball.

I agree with a lot of what you said. I do have some different opinions though, I dont think Fultz is necessarily the better athlete. I think Ball is bouncier and is faster in the open court. Also I dont expect Fultz to be the better defender either, especially early in their career. I think Fultz is getting a big benefit of the doubt defensively because he has a long wingspan. I think Fultz has terrible fundamentals defensively and has never really shown the effort on that side of the ball (especially off the ball). Ball on the other hand I think has better fundamentals and puts more of an effort in (especially off the ball), Lonzo really struggles in one area and its the one area you wished he didnt. He struggles to fight through picks, you set a screen and he just dies. I think theyre both going to struggle defensively, to begin with, but I think you can hide Ball much better off the ball defensively.

[Upperclass]

Literally everything. Fultz might endup the best player in the league very quickly. Ball's trajectory isnt on that level. He's most likely to endup as an offball 3pt shooter/combo guard when all is said and done.

[XtotheDeezy]

Balls jump shot form?

I do think there is a slim chance Balls pass first mentality could unlock something special. He would thrive under D'Antonie.

D'Antoni made Kendall Marshall look competent under his system. It's not saying much to say that a PG would look good under him.

I think he's saying that D'Antoni would make Ball look AMAZING, not just competent.

[infintybeyond]

Fultz is the more fundamentally sound player. His mechanics, handle, shot are pretty sound fundamentally. He can potentially do everything on the offensive end.

Ball's shot is fundamentally broken. It limits his potential going right. It's cringy watching him try to pull up going right. He struggles to shoot mid range and has a shaky handle. Everything for him is either a 3, step back 3 going left, or a layup. His pick n roll is also bad. Where he shines is his instincts(both sides of the ball) and feel for the game. Ball is such a weird prospect to me. He doesn't really break guys off the dribble and his iso game isn't that great. But, his passing, court vision, feel for the game are out of this world. He is head and shoulders above everyone else as far as playmaking goes.

How come people aren't talking about the guy that took Lonzo's lunch: De'Aaron Fox? He absolutely destroyed Lonzo. People are sleeping on this kid. This guy has world class speed and handles. Good luck stopping him when he comes around a screen. His defense is pretty good too.

[username_taken]

Fultz is very well suited for the modern NBA. Effective out of the P&R, creative finisher, potential 3 level scorer, underrated passer, and an ideal frame for a guard.

Ball has more questions about how his offense will translate, with his limited P&R usage (partially due to UCLA's system), unselfishness almost to a fault (I can't see him ever scoring more than 14-16 PPG in the NBA due to how selective he is whilst looking for his shots, which isn't the worst flaw because he will be efficient). Ball will run an NBA offense well, but I'm not sure he'll ever be a crunch time scorer, though he will make his teammates better. Another big NBA question mark for Ball besides his ugly jump shot form is if he can get those same high percentage looks he got in college.

Those are the main differences as to why I put Fultz over Ball, although Ball is a very talented player in his own right, and an NBA team will be thrilled to have him.