2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 6) - with ROY poll

[Dutchball97]

..about that...

What about it? Mobley is still first in the most recent NBA ROY ladder as well as the favorite in the vegas odds. He's still the most likely to win.

err..about that..

??? Use your words.

[Appostis]

What about it? Mobley is still first in the most recent NBA ROY ladder as well as the favorite in the vegas odds. He's still the most likely to win.

err..about that..

??? Use your words.

You're using the NBA.com Rankings..you realize theres others right?
https://www.si.com/nba/2022/04/08/nba-rookie-rankings-scottie-barnes-evan-mobley-cade-cunningham-awards

For example..

It's pretty 50/50...

[Raps in 4]

It's pretty clear-cut. Mobley or Barnes are the ROY. They were by far the best rookies this year, and their teams were actually good.

[Dutchball97]

err..about that..

??? Use your words.

You're using the NBA.com Rankings..you realize theres others right?
https://www.si.com/nba/2022/04/08/nba-rookie-rankings-scottie-barnes-evan-mobley-cade-cunningham-awards

For example..

It's pretty 50/50...

And you think that holds more weight than the official NBA rankings or the vegas odds? Seems like you're just looking for lists that confirm your homer view instead of actually taking everything at face value.

Even more odd you felt the need to quote such an old comment despite Mobley still being one of the frontrunners and likely even still the favorite to win the award. Like at least wait till after the ROY is awarded and it turns out to have gone to Barnes instead of Mobley before you go around collecting receipts.

[Appostis]

??? Use your words.

You're using the NBA.com Rankings..you realize theres others right?
https://www.si.com/nba/2022/04/08/nba-rookie-rankings-scottie-barnes-evan-mobley-cade-cunningham-awards

For example..

It's pretty 50/50...

And you think that holds more weight than the official NBA rankings or the vegas odds? Seems like you're just looking for lists that confirm your homer view instead of actually taking everything at face value.

Even more odd you felt the need to quote such an old comment despite Mobley still being one of the frontrunners and likely even still the favorite to win the award. Like at least wait till after the ROY is awarded and it turns out to have gone to Barnes instead of Mobley before you go around collecting receipts.

You made a pretty poor take. *Shrug*

I called you out on that. Mobley defensive numbers as a rookie are really not amazing without Allen. That's the truth... He'll be an amazing player...a defensive force...but he's not that yet. His case for ROY is better due to his injury..longer he played without Allen..the worse he looked. He's far from a sure thing(as ROY).

[Jabroni Lames]

Thanassis dropped 27 for the Bucks. Sandro dropped 28. They lost. Perfect example of why Cade shouldn't be in the ROY conversation with Mobley & Barnes. It's a lot easier to put up empty stats on a bottom dweller, than play impact minutes on a playoff / play-in team.

Absolute rubbish. This shouldn't be a detriment to Cade at all. IMO his only slight is Mobley/Barnes have been great the whole year as opposed to only the second half of the season and efficiency. But you can legit make an argument that Cade has been the best rookie in March and one who has a highest ceiling as a shot creator over anyone in the class other than Green.

Austin Reaves just put up a 30 point triple double in a meaningless game. That’s the environment Cade has been been playing in all year. If Cade is on a playoff team making turnovers and bricking 3 point shots at the same rate, he would have his minutes cut and usage lowered. That’s a fact.

And if Barnes or Mobley are on the Pistons, they are putting up at least 20/10/5, guaranteed.

[nikster]

Thanassis dropped 27 for the Bucks. Sandro dropped 28. They lost. Perfect example of why Cade shouldn't be in the ROY conversation with Mobley & Barnes. It's a lot easier to put up empty stats on a bottom dweller, than play impact minutes on a playoff / play-in team.

Absolute rubbish. This shouldn't be a detriment to Cade at all. IMO his only slight is Mobley/Barnes have been great the whole year as opposed to only the second half of the season and efficiency. But you can legit make an argument that Cade has been the best rookie in March and one who has a highest ceiling as a shot creator over anyone in the class other than Green.

Austin Reaves just put up a 30 point triple double in a meaningless game. That’s the environment Cade has been been playing in all year. If Cade is on a playoff team making turnovers and bricking 3 point shots at the same rate, he would have his minutes cut and usage lowered. That’s a fact.

And if Barnes or Mobley are on the Pistons, they are putting up at least 20/10/5, guaranteed.

Theres a huge difference between going off in one game and putting up 21/7/7 for 2 months.... That's a ridiculous comparison

[Jabroni Lames]

Absolute rubbish. This shouldn't be a detriment to Cade at all. IMO his only slight is Mobley/Barnes have been great the whole year as opposed to only the second half of the season and efficiency. But you can legit make an argument that Cade has been the best rookie in March and one who has a highest ceiling as a shot creator over anyone in the class other than Green.

Austin Reaves just put up a 30 point triple double in a meaningless game. That’s the environment Cade has been been playing in all year. If Cade is on a playoff team making turnovers and bricking 3 point shots at the same rate, he would have his minutes cut and usage lowered. That’s a fact.

And if Barnes or Mobley are on the Pistons, they are putting up at least 20/10/5, guaranteed.

Theres a huge difference between going off in one game and putting up 21/7/7 for 2 months.... That's a ridiculous comparison

The difference is opportunity. Cade is given unlimited opportunity to dominate the ball without any repercussions for losing. Mobley and Barnes don’t have that luxury.

[Sane]

What a bunch of nonsense about it easier to play somewhere other than the Toronto Raptors, the skeleton of a championship team where Barnes slipped into the franchise player's role (Kawhi Leonard). A team practically built for him.

Imagine believing that playing off ball on a tanking team with a PG who doesn't know how to play PG and several non-shooters on the floor makes it easier to be the most prolific and most efficient scorer of the bunch.

Siakam
OG
Green
VV

with either Trent or Precious on the floor would be a dream ecosystem for Green. He has overcome adversity, lack of spacing, no structured offense, no extreme usage % to produce what he's produced. Give him props.

[BigGargamel]

Cade Cunningham
Jalen Green
Evan Mobley
Scottie Barnes
Jalen Suggs
Josh Giddey
Jonathan Kuminga
Franz Wagner
Davion Mitchell
Chris Duarte
Alperen Sengun
Tre Mann
Bones Hyland
Cam Thomas
Herb Jones
Ayo Dosunmu
Dalano Banton
Aaron Wiggins

What a class. Been a fun year.

[JShuttlesworth]

Scottie ROY!

[K_chile22]

What a bunch of nonsense about it easier to play somewhere other than the Toronto Raptors, the skeleton of a championship team where Barnes slipped into the franchise player's role (Kawhi Leonard). A team practically built for him.

Imagine believing that playing off ball on a tanking team with a PG who doesn't know how to play PG and several non-shooters on the floor makes it easier to be the most prolific and most efficient scorer of the bunch.

Siakam
OG
Green
VV

with either Trent or Precious on the floor would be a dream ecosystem for Green. He has overcome adversity, lack of spacing, no structured offense, no extreme usage % to produce what he's produced. Give him props.

To an extent yeah, I'm not trying to take away from Barnes, he took advantage of his opportunity and ran with it, but he has the best environment of any top 10 guy to fall into. Arguments about how Cade for example wouldn't get to play as much as Barnes that I've seen in this thread because Cade is less efficient have me scratching my head. He'd pretty obviously be more efficient in a smaller role as the third guy the defenses are concerned about vs being number 1, reverse goes for Barnes. That just how the relationship between usage and efficiency generally is. Cade, Green and Wagner are all in less advantageous situations, and I'd say Mobley is in a worse offensive one, though think his defensive reputation was being helped a bit by Allen cleaning up any mistakes he made

Doesn't move me significantly in any ROY leanings, it's about what you did not what you'd theoretically do on another team, but it's just a silly thing to ignore so that you can put down other players and prop up your guy

[Scottie4Bro]

This might be selfish and scummy to say but I'd rather Barnes not win Roy so his next contract is smaller lol

[Bruin]

??? Use your words.

You're using the NBA.com Rankings..you realize theres others right?
https://www.si.com/nba/2022/04/08/nba-rookie-rankings-scottie-barnes-evan-mobley-cade-cunningham-awards

For example..

It's pretty 50/50...

And you think that holds more weight than the official NBA rankings or the vegas odds? Seems like you're just looking for lists that confirm your homer view instead of actually taking everything at face value.

Even more odd you felt the need to quote such an old comment despite Mobley still being one of the frontrunners and likely even still the favorite to win the award. Like at least wait till after the ROY is awarded and it turns out to have gone to Barnes instead of Mobley before you go around collecting receipts.

You do realize the “official nba rankings” is nothing more than just 1 guys opinion right? It’s Steve Ashburner who has 1 vote for the ROTY race. 1 out of 100 votes

That “official” ranking holds basically the exact same value as Dan Devine who said he’s voting for Scottie. Strictly just 1 vote

[Dutchball97]

You're using the NBA.com Rankings..you realize theres others right?
https://www.si.com/nba/2022/04/08/nba-rookie-rankings-scottie-barnes-evan-mobley-cade-cunningham-awards

For example..

It's pretty 50/50...

And you think that holds more weight than the official NBA rankings or the vegas odds? Seems like you're just looking for lists that confirm your homer view instead of actually taking everything at face value.

Even more odd you felt the need to quote such an old comment despite Mobley still being one of the frontrunners and likely even still the favorite to win the award. Like at least wait till after the ROY is awarded and it turns out to have gone to Barnes instead of Mobley before you go around collecting receipts.

You do realize the “official nba rankings” is nothing more than just 1 guys opinion right? It’s Steve Ashburner who has 1 vote for the ROTY race. 1 out of 100 votes

That “official” ranking holds basically the exact same value as Dan Devine who said he’s voting for Scottie. Strictly just 1 vote

Great. So what about the Vegas odds?

Also I don't even care in particular if Mobley or Barnes wins the award, both would be deserving in my eyes. I simply got dragged into this argument by some overzealous Raptors fan who wants to get vindication for me daring to say I'd be really surprised if Mobley didn't win ROY a while ago. All while Mobley STILL is the favorite to win the award.

[Liqourish]

Thanassis dropped 27 for the Bucks. Sandro dropped 28. They lost. Perfect example of why Cade shouldn't be in the ROY conversation with Mobley & Barnes. It's a lot easier to put up empty stats on a bottom dweller, than play impact minutes on a playoff / play-in team.

Absolute rubbish. This shouldn't be a detriment to Cade at all. IMO his only slight is Mobley/Barnes have been great the whole year as opposed to only the second half of the season and efficiency. But you can legit make an argument that Cade has been the best rookie in March and one who has a highest ceiling as a shot creator over anyone in the class other than Green.

Umm, he was also ROTM for January. This narrative that he only played 20 games well is just bull. He's been playing well for most of the year, after coming back from injury and having a slow start. You know, like Barnes had a stretch of bad games and how Mobley has been out for a stretch. Yet somehow, this only counts against Cade.

[Vampirate]

What a bunch of nonsense about it easier to play somewhere other than the Toronto Raptors, the skeleton of a championship team where Barnes slipped into the franchise player's role (Kawhi Leonard). A team practically built for him.

Imagine believing that playing off ball on a tanking team with a PG who doesn't know how to play PG and several non-shooters on the floor makes it easier to be the most prolific and most efficient scorer of the bunch.

Siakam
OG
Green
VV

with either Trent or Precious on the floor would be a dream ecosystem for Green. He has overcome adversity, lack of spacing, no structured offense, no extreme usage % to produce what he's produced. Give him props.

Keep in mind this argument only holds water offensively, if Green was on the Raptors he'd be playing close to 37 minutes for one thing and would be asked to do much much more defensively than what he's asked on the Rockets which would wear him out, this goes for Cade as well.

Barnes is a ROTY candidate not only because of his offense, but he regularly guards the best players on the opposing team, this includes the likes of Joker, Embiid etc.

You have to not only take into account teammates, but coaches.


As for Barnes offense, it's no fluke. His passing is among the best in the rookie class and he's money from 3-10 feet.

[HiRez]

Rookie tracker through Apr. 10 (season final).

[nikster]

Austin Reaves just put up a 30 point triple double in a meaningless game. That’s the environment Cade has been been playing in all year. If Cade is on a playoff team making turnovers and bricking 3 point shots at the same rate, he would have his minutes cut and usage lowered. That’s a fact.

And if Barnes or Mobley are on the Pistons, they are putting up at least 20/10/5, guaranteed.

Theres a huge difference between going off in one game and putting up 21/7/7 for 2 months.... That's a ridiculous comparison

The difference is opportunity. Cade is given unlimited opportunity to dominate the ball without any repercussions for losing. Mobley and Barnes don’t have that luxury.

You were comparing Cade to Reaves and other scrubs who went off in one game

[Bruin]

Only rookie in the East to win it more than once

February - April

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