Just how good is Celtics Isiah Thomas

[bmurph128]

IT is kinda annoying, and I didn't think he would be this good. But he is good. Would rate him immediately below top tier of PGs, but def think he's better than teague, wall, even irving. it'll be interesting to see how he fares as teams start to pay more attention to him in the following season and get more game film on him.

Stop it.

He is not better than Irving. That's ridiculous.

let me rephrase what I said: I think he's had a better season than irving so far, both have had good playoffs.. Do I think he's a better talent or take him over irving to build a team at this point? No. but I think he's had the better performance this season being the main guy on the team.

I agree with this. I think IT is very good, but I think their overall team success should be attributed more to Stevens.

[FlatearthZorro]

Stop it.

He is not better than Irving. That's ridiculous.

Are you serious? How is he not better than Irving? I want to see Irving winning 48 games with Jae/Bradley and Smart/Amir/Sully/Jerebko...

It's not ridiculous it's a fact. Thomas is more efficient and a better defender, put Thomas next to LeBron and the Cavs are much closer to a championship than they are now.

Can't help but notice you left off the number one reason the Celtics are where they are....Brad Stevens.

Trade Irving for Thomas straight up and with Stevens still coaching, the Celtics would have won 50 games...or more. He is a good player but he's not on Irving's level.

Not, not really, cause Irving will barely play(he's had injuries since he was in college)... Oh and he will never play defense, ever. And why would he, when he can get 20 mils a year to just score pts.

[bmurph128]

Are you serious? How is he not better than Irving? I want to see Irving winning 48 games with Jae/Bradley and Smart/Amir/Sully/Jerebko...

It's not ridiculous it's a fact. Thomas is more efficient and a better defender, put Thomas next to LeBron and the Cavs are much closer to a championship than they are now.

Can't help but notice you left off the number one reason the Celtics are where they are....Brad Stevens.

Trade Irving for Thomas straight up and with Stevens still coaching, the Celtics would have won 50 games...or more. He is a good player but he's not on Irving's level.

Not, not really, cause Irving will barely play(he's had injuries since he was in college)... Oh and he will never play defense, ever. And why would he, when he can get 20 mils a year to just score pts.

Irving is still capable of playing better defense than Thomas...you don't think that would change with a great coach like Brad Stevens?? I do. Thomas isn't in Irving's league, but Stevens has done a great job making people think he is.

[sewko]

The last part is 100% trash. Teague would make them a better team. Better all around player. Shooter, defender, passer, PG, BBIQ. Just much better.

It seems like metrics only matter if the player is someone you like. Jahlil Okafor and Devin Booker is horrible at most metrics but most of you would take them over most of your squad. Teague has pretty good per36 metrics which and his post all star break numbers have been some of the best in the NBA for his position.

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HAHA, Teague is scoring way less on worse ts%, has less win shares, less PER, a slightly higher assist rate but higher turnover rate, less BPM, less VORP, ++++ yet you feel inclined to say he is much better? It's okay to be a fan, but take off your homer glasses.

If you don't watch the games, then you are relevant in this subject to me. Watch the games. Watch the damn games. Ask any NBA player who is better. Ask any NBA PG who is better. Most of them will tell you who they rather. Ask NBA coaches and GM who is better. Ask them.

As I said, they are not on the same teams, play the same role or is asked to do the same thing. Aldridge is no where close to Millsap this year in any metric. Davis is not as good as Millsap this year but ask the coaches, players and GM and all would take Davis. Please stop the foolishness. There is no way Thomas is in the same league with Teague. He has a different role and Teague is just flat out better in most areas. Thomas is better at getting to the line. Thomas is better volume offense.

Jeff gets as many hockey assist as any PG in the NBA. His win shares are lower due to our starting lineup being average during the first half of the season. Since all star break, our starting lineup has been top 3 in the NBA.

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Yeah dude, Teague is clearly the better player

[tundraknight]

Rich mans TJ Ford?

[Winsome Gerbil]

He's good enough to score 42 in a playoff game. He's also good enough to score 7 in a playoff game. And trite as that sounds I think that's a pretty decent indicator of his stature (no pun intended). Its vritually impossible to imagine the true superstar #1 guys, Steph or Bron or Durant or Westbrook, or Harden or Cousins or A.D. scoring 7pts in a playoff game. Its really unlikely for guys like George or Lillard or Kawhi, but MAYBE possible. It is however something that can happen to the next tier guys. Guys who are are really elite scorers but not quite true centerpieces who just have to hit 18 every night for their teams to even have a chance. Milsap could score 7, Irving could score 7, DeRozan could score 7.

[Infinite Llamas]

He's good enough to score 42 in a playoff game. He's also good enough to score 7 in a playoff game. And trite as that sounds I think that's a pretty decent indicator of his stature (no pun intended). Its vritually impossible to imagine the true superstar #1 guys, Steph or Bron or Durant or Westbrook, or Harden or Cousins or A.D. scoring 7pts in a playoff game. Its really unlikely for guys like George or Lillard or Kawhi, but MAYBE possible. It is however something that can happen to the next tier guys. Guys who are are really elite scorers but not quite true centerpieces who just have to hit 18 every night for their teams to even have a chance. Milsap could score 7, Irving could score 7, DeRozan could score 7.

Steph, Lebron, Westbrook have all scored under 10 in a playoff game. Cousins can only dream of what a playoff game is like.

Point is that looking at the point total for Isaiah isn't looking at the bigger picture for the game. He was getting doubled on the perimeter on seemingly every play and there was nary a double pick to ever help him out. He's good, but you're not going to score when you have to fight through Teague and Millsap. Problem is that the Hawks can get away with this because the C's have so many dreadful shooters.

[Nowascki]

He's good enough to score 42 in a playoff game. He's also good enough to score 7 in a playoff game. And trite as that sounds I think that's a pretty decent indicator of his stature (no pun intended). Its vritually impossible to imagine the true superstar #1 guys, Steph or Bron or Durant or Westbrook, or Harden or Cousins or A.D. scoring 7pts in a playoff game. Its really unlikely for guys like George or Lillard or Kawhi, but MAYBE possible. It is however something that can happen to the next tier guys. Guys who are are really elite scorers but not quite true centerpieces who just have to hit 18 every night for their teams to even have a chance. Milsap could score 7, Irving could score 7, DeRozan could score 7.

Lebron scored 8 points in the finals in his prime, don't be too harsh on him.

[Winsome Gerbil]

He's good enough to score 42 in a playoff game. He's also good enough to score 7 in a playoff game. And trite as that sounds I think that's a pretty decent indicator of his stature (no pun intended). Its vritually impossible to imagine the true superstar #1 guys, Steph or Bron or Durant or Westbrook, or Harden or Cousins or A.D. scoring 7pts in a playoff game. Its really unlikely for guys like George or Lillard or Kawhi, but MAYBE possible. It is however something that can happen to the next tier guys. Guys who are are really elite scorers but not quite true centerpieces who just have to hit 18 every night for their teams to even have a chance. Milsap could score 7, Irving could score 7, DeRozan could score 7.

Steph, Lebron, Westbrook have all scored under 10 in a playoff game. Cousins can only dream of what a playoff game is like.

Point is that looking at the point total for Isaiah isn't looking at the bigger picture for the game. He was getting doubled on the perimeter on seemingly every play and there was nary a double pick to ever help him out. He's good, but you're not going to score when you have to fight through Teague and Millsap. Problem is that the Hawks can get away with this because the C's have so many dreadful shooters.

No actually you CAN fight through that. What was happening to IT was precisely what the superstars have to face constantly.

And that is the gap. The true HOF caliber superstar types still find a way. The guys at IT's level? Sometimes. If they are hot. If teams don't play them correctly. Very dangerous, but you can squeeze and take away an IT in a way you largely can't a Westbrook level guy.

[Lebron45]

he's rattled with the boos

[Infinite Llamas]

He's good enough to score 42 in a playoff game. He's also good enough to score 7 in a playoff game. And trite as that sounds I think that's a pretty decent indicator of his stature (no pun intended). Its vritually impossible to imagine the true superstar #1 guys, Steph or Bron or Durant or Westbrook, or Harden or Cousins or A.D. scoring 7pts in a playoff game. Its really unlikely for guys like George or Lillard or Kawhi, but MAYBE possible. It is however something that can happen to the next tier guys. Guys who are are really elite scorers but not quite true centerpieces who just have to hit 18 every night for their teams to even have a chance. Milsap could score 7, Irving could score 7, DeRozan could score 7.

Steph, Lebron, Westbrook have all scored under 10 in a playoff game. Cousins can only dream of what a playoff game is like.

Point is that looking at the point total for Isaiah isn't looking at the bigger picture for the game. He was getting doubled on the perimeter on seemingly every play and there was nary a double pick to ever help him out. He's good, but you're not going to score when you have to fight through Teague and Millsap. Problem is that the Hawks can get away with this because the C's have so many dreadful shooters.

No actually you CAN fight through that. What was happening to IT was precisely what the superstars have to face constantly.

And that is the gap. The true HOF caliber superstar types still find a way. The guys at IT's level? Sometimes. If they are hot. If teams don't play them correctly. Very dangerous, but you can squeeze and take away an IT in a way you largely can't a Westbrook level guy.

Well yeah, he could have heaved a ton of 3's and hope that he got lucky but he tried to move the ball instead of forcing things. A smart offensive player will take what the defense offers them, and the Atlanta perimeter wasn't offering any looks. Fight all you want, they were building a small wall before Isaiah could even make a move. The strategy would have failed if the Celtics had a competent sidekick to help take the pressure off of him. It truly must be depressing when you're constantly kicking it out to Evan Turner, Crowder and Smart and watch them brick wide open 3's. It was smart defense by the Hawks because they made a smart gamble that our shooters would continue to brick. Guys like Curry and Westbrook have guys like Adams, Green and Bogut setting picks for them. what can Isaiah do with the C's playing Jerebko at center and him setting soft screens?

Again, Isaiah scoring 7 is justifiable when you look at the big picture of the game. It's been five years and I still can't figure out how a big, strong Lebron can only muster 8 points playing 46 minutes in a crucial Finals game. Every player has bad games. I really don't think Isaiah can be fairly judged until he's paired with some decent offensive talent.

[FlatearthZorro]

he's rattled with the boos

I doubt boos bother him at all, double and tripple teams are and our guys not being able to make wide open shots .

[Mr Loggins]

Good enough to be the best offensive player on a 45-ish win team; role player/6th man type on a true contender

[K_ick_God]

He's good enough to score 42 in a playoff game. He's also good enough to score 7 in a playoff game. And trite as that sounds I think that's a pretty decent indicator of his stature (no pun intended). Its vritually impossible to imagine the true superstar #1 guys, Steph or Bron or Durant or Westbrook, or Harden or Cousins or A.D. scoring 7pts in a playoff game. Its really unlikely for guys like George or Lillard or Kawhi, but MAYBE possible. It is however something that can happen to the next tier guys. Guys who are are really elite scorers but not quite true centerpieces who just have to hit 18 every night for their teams to even have a chance. Milsap could score 7, Irving could score 7, DeRozan could score 7.

Good thoughts. I'd add a few things:

You're likely better off -- especially at the point guard spot -- with a guy who is pretty even, and gets you a consistent 13-16 a game, than a guy who is sometimes an explosive scorer and sometimes pretty much absent. That's why I'd take Teague over him, and maybe Schroder as well.

Point guard shouldn't be that volatile, and often it's bad for him to look to be the main scorer (there are exceptions to that latter rule of course, like the soon-to-be repeat MVP). And yeah it also matters that Isaiah is little (typically catches up to you eventually, is my experience) and a volume scorer even on his better nights.

[MC3]

Good enough for his height.

[og15]

He's good enough to score 42 in a playoff game. He's also good enough to score 7 in a playoff game. And trite as that sounds I think that's a pretty decent indicator of his stature (no pun intended). Its vritually impossible to imagine the true superstar #1 guys, Steph or Bron or Durant or Westbrook, or Harden or Cousins or A.D. scoring 7pts in a playoff game. Its really unlikely for guys like George or Lillard or Kawhi, but MAYBE possible. It is however something that can happen to the next tier guys. Guys who are are really elite scorers but not quite true centerpieces who just have to hit 18 every night for their teams to even have a chance. Milsap could score 7, Irving could score 7, DeRozan could score 7.

Good thoughts. I'd add a few things:

You're likely better off -- especially at the point guard spot -- with a guy who is pretty even, and gets you a consistent 13-16 a game, than a guy who is sometimes an explosive scorer and sometimes pretty much absent. That's why I'd take Teague over him, and maybe Schroder as well.

Point guard shouldn't be that volatile, and often it's bad for him to look to be the main scorer (there are exceptions to that latter rule of course, like the soon-to-be repeat MVP). And yeah it also matters that Isaiah is little (typically catches up to you eventually, is my experience) and a volume scorer even on his better nights.

Is that a fair assesment? Thomas is not Jeff Green. Even looking at this playoff series, we have 27, 16, 42, 28, and then a 7 point game. If you're average night is quite good, but you're capable of having a really good night, that's good. The issue is if one the average night you're not very good, but then you're capable of exploding, that just makes you not a very good player.

If we look at Teague last playoffs his high was not as high as Thomas, his average night was a little lower, and he was just as likely to have an awful game (Game 1 vs WAS, 4-14, 11 pts | Game 2 vs WAS: 3/12, 9 pts | Game 2 vs CLE: 5/16, 12 pts).

[PierceFan4ever]

He's good enough to score 42 in a playoff game. He's also good enough to score 7 in a playoff game. And trite as that sounds I think that's a pretty decent indicator of his stature (no pun intended). Its vritually impossible to imagine the true superstar #1 guys, Steph or Bron or Durant or Westbrook, or Harden or Cousins or A.D. scoring 7pts in a playoff game. Its really unlikely for guys like George or Lillard or Kawhi, but MAYBE possible. It is however something that can happen to the next tier guys. Guys who are are really elite scorers but not quite true centerpieces who just have to hit 18 every night for their teams to even have a chance. Milsap could score 7, Irving could score 7, DeRozan could score 7.

Good thoughts. I'd add a few things:

You're likely better off -- especially at the point guard spot -- with a guy who is pretty even, and gets you a consistent 13-16 a game, than a guy who is sometimes an explosive scorer and sometimes pretty much absent. That's why I'd take Teague over him, and maybe Schroder as well.

Point guard shouldn't be that volatile, and often it's bad for him to look to be the main scorer (there are exceptions to that latter rule of course, like the soon-to-be repeat MVP). And yeah it also matters that Isaiah is little (typically catches up to you eventually, is my experience) and a volume scorer even on his better nights.

Are you even watching the series? Is Teague or Schroder getting doubled/tripled team like Isaiah? It's not even close to how hard it is for IT to score compared to those two and yet Thomas is still scoring more. There's no Millsap, Horford, and Korver on the Celtics to give Isaiah much freedom. You replace Teague with IT and the Celtics would already be home now while IT would've put up monster numbers more efficiently. Oh, and Schroder just came off a poor game 4 not too long away so I don't know why 1 bad Isaiah game makes it seem like IT is inconsistent compared to those two.

[K_ick_God]

He's good enough to score 42 in a playoff game. He's also good enough to score 7 in a playoff game. And trite as that sounds I think that's a pretty decent indicator of his stature (no pun intended). Its vritually impossible to imagine the true superstar #1 guys, Steph or Bron or Durant or Westbrook, or Harden or Cousins or A.D. scoring 7pts in a playoff game. Its really unlikely for guys like George or Lillard or Kawhi, but MAYBE possible. It is however something that can happen to the next tier guys. Guys who are are really elite scorers but not quite true centerpieces who just have to hit 18 every night for their teams to even have a chance. Milsap could score 7, Irving could score 7, DeRozan could score 7.

Good thoughts. I'd add a few things:

You're likely better off -- especially at the point guard spot -- with a guy who is pretty even, and gets you a consistent 13-16 a game, than a guy who is sometimes an explosive scorer and sometimes pretty much absent. That's why I'd take Teague over him, and maybe Schroder as well.

Point guard shouldn't be that volatile, and often it's bad for him to look to be the main scorer (there are exceptions to that latter rule of course, like the soon-to-be repeat MVP). And yeah it also matters that Isaiah is little (typically catches up to you eventually, is my experience) and a volume scorer even on his better nights.

Is that a fair assesment? Thomas is not Jeff Green. Even looking at this playoff series, we have 27, 16, 42, 28, and then a 7 point game. If you're average night is quite good, but you're capable of having a really good night, that's good. The issue is if one the average night you're not very good, but then you're capable of exploding, that just makes you not a very good player.

If we look at Teague last playoffs his high was not as high as Thomas, his average night was a little lower, and he was just as likely to have an awful game (Game 1 vs WAS, 4-14, 11 pts | Game 2 vs WAS: 3/12, 9 pts | Game 2 vs CLE: 5/16, 12 pts).

Fair. I'm probably biased in that I just think highly of Teague and see Thomas as kind of overrated. I do have to point out that Isaiah's 16-point game is not worth citing. He was atrocious when it counted and only got some padding points after the game was over and he had gone 2-13 or whatever it was. So he's had 2 very bad games and 3 very good games. I also don't think he's quite enough of a playmaker.

To me he's an explosive, crafty scorer but his height and some of the trends/instincts are significant downside. Then again, nobody is saying he's a surefire perennial All-Star, nor did they trade away that level of value to get him.

[sackings916]

He's good enough to score 42 in a playoff game. He's also good enough to score 7 in a playoff game. And trite as that sounds I think that's a pretty decent indicator of his stature (no pun intended). Its vritually impossible to imagine the true superstar #1 guys, Steph or Bron or Durant or Westbrook, or Harden or Cousins or A.D. scoring 7pts in a playoff game. Its really unlikely for guys like George or Lillard or Kawhi, but MAYBE possible. It is however something that can happen to the next tier guys. Guys who are are really elite scorers but not quite true centerpieces who just have to hit 18 every night for their teams to even have a chance. Milsap could score 7, Irving could score 7, DeRozan could score 7.

Good thoughts. I'd add a few things:

You're likely better off -- especially at the point guard spot -- with a guy who is pretty even, and gets you a consistent 13-16 a game, than a guy who is sometimes an explosive scorer and sometimes pretty much absent. That's why I'd take Teague over him, and maybe Schroder as well.

Point guard shouldn't be that volatile, and often it's bad for him to look to be the main scorer (there are exceptions to that latter rule of course, like the soon-to-be repeat MVP). And yeah it also matters that Isaiah is little (typically catches up to you eventually, is my experience) and a volume scorer even on his better nights.

Not a fair assessment IMO. EVERY player has off nights. IT and Teague is close, but I'd give the edge to IT. Schroeder over IT? Good luck w/ a PG who can't shoot. Don't get me wrong Schroders a good player, but nowhere near ITs level.