2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread Pt 2

[PeptoKlepto]

That's really not fair at all. Likely wouldn't have been in OT at all had it not been for LeBron.

It's just as fair as Curry not getting credit for playing well yesterday despite losing. I didn't see any posts saying that Curry is moving up the MVP ladder and he didn't have teammates going 39/12 etc.

Lebron is still exactly where he was last week in the MVP race. One game doesn't change a month of losing to average teams at an abnormally high rate. They are too talented for that.

Agreed. Curry just had a phenomenal week of basketball and it hasn't really changed his position in the MVP standings. LeBron and the Cavs have been playing horrible basketball and now with one game he's back in the race? No. Harden and Westbrook been putting up the same type of stat lines as he did last night all season.

I think people are just ignoring Curry at this point due to him winning two years in a row, what happened in the finals and the fact that Durant joined the Warriors.

Removing peoples biases and he should be in everyone's top 3 at this point.

26pgg/4.5rpg/6.5apg/2spg on 64% TS, with the highest net rating and +/- out of the entire group of candidates.

Oh, and all of the sudden he's 5th in the entire league in RPM - over James, Harden, Durant, Leonard and Wall.

https://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

[SantaMenon]

I feel like Westbrooks ridiculous 27 / 18!!! / 9 has been overlooked in the LeBron hype from yesterday.

18 rebounds for a guard is unreal...31/10/10 for the season.

Definitely between Harden and Westbrook right now, and I give the edge to Harden only because of the superior team record.

[K_chile22]

I'm sorry my post doesn't fit with your agenda. What was the score when Lebron fouled out?

That's really not fair at all. Likely wouldn't have been in OT at all had it not been for LeBron.

It's just as fair as Curry not getting credit for playing well yesterday despite losing. I didn't see any posts saying that Curry is moving up the MVP ladder and he didn't have teammates going 39/12 etc.

Lebron is still exactly where he was last week in the MVP race. One game doesn't change a month of losing to average teams at an abnormally high rate. They are too talented for that.

Do you want everyone to bow down every time Curry has a good game? Cmon man.

[ProfessorJM]

It's just as fair as Curry not getting credit for playing well yesterday despite losing. I didn't see any posts saying that Curry is moving up the MVP ladder and he didn't have teammates going 39/12 etc.

Lebron is still exactly where he was last week in the MVP race. One game doesn't change a month of losing to average teams at an abnormally high rate. They are too talented for that.

Agreed. Curry just had a phenomenal week of basketball and it hasn't really changed his position in the MVP standings. LeBron and the Cavs have been playing horrible basketball and now with one game he's back in the race? No. Harden and Westbrook been putting up the same type of stat lines as he did last night all season.

I think people are just ignoring Curry at this point due to him winning two years in a row, what happened in the finals and the fact that Durant joined the Warriors.

Removing peoples biases and he should be in everyone's top 3 at this point.

26pgg/4.5rpg/6.5apg/2spg on 64% TS, with the highest net rating and +/- out of the entire group of candidates.

Oh, and all of the sudden he's 5th in the entire league in RPM - over James, Harden, Durant, Leonard and Wall.

https://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

Maybe one argument for Curry for his own team would be comparing team performance with Curry without Durant and Durant without Curry on the floor, I bet (not sure honestly but judging by watching them) there is a clear difference. (obviously, Durant/Curry together is probably nuts)

[ProfessorJM]

I feel like Westbrooks ridiculous 27 / 18!!! / 9 has been overlooked in the LeBron hype from yesterday.

18 rebounds for a guard is unreal...31/10/10 for the season.

Definitely between Harden and Westbrook right now, and I give the edge to Harden only because of the superior team record.

I'm Harden too right now, but wow, Westbrook is just incredible this year. I think right now he is about plus 12 for assists and plus 27 for rebounds (total number over averaging 10 for the season in each category) so it's not sure thing by any means yet, but I think the triple double is clearly within reach for the season.

[Shock Defeat]

a point guard can't grab 18 boards unless he is stat padding and the entire team allows it.

[Starboy]

That's really not fair at all. Likely wouldn't have been in OT at all had it not been for LeBron.

It's just as fair as Curry not getting credit for playing well yesterday despite losing. I didn't see any posts saying that Curry is moving up the MVP ladder and he didn't have teammates going 39/12 etc.

Lebron is still exactly where he was last week in the MVP race. One game doesn't change a month of losing to average teams at an abnormally high rate. They are too talented for that.

Do you want everyone to bow down every time Curry has a good game? Cmon man.

Umm, you mean how people are doing it for Lebron's game from yesterday?

Curry has been having nothing but good games since Christmas. I don't care if he doesn't get traction in MVP race since he's not getting one, but I sure as hell want the same treatment for Lebron.

[PeptoKlepto]

a point guard can't grab 18 boards unless he is stat padding and the entire team allows it.

Or slacking off the perimeter leaving guys open.

Regardless, Westbrook has the advantage over Harden from an advanced stats standpoint. He's the MVP right now, IMO.

[SantaMenon]

a point guard can't grab 18 boards unless he is stat padding and the entire team allows it.

We going to get back to stat padding again? 18 boards is not stat padding, 18 boards is clearly Westbrook doing Westbrook things.

Anything to try undermine an amazing achievement..

[bondom34]

a point guard can't grab 18 boards unless he is stat padding and the entire team allows it.

How about 16? Because Harden's done that. And if you'd watch these games you'd see this isn't true.

[PeptoKlepto]

a point guard can't grab 18 boards unless he is stat padding and the entire team allows it.

How about 16? Because Harden's done that. And if you'd watch these games you'd see this isn't true.

I mean, they're kinda right. Westbrook doesn't really play within the framework of the offense or defense. He kinda just freelances and does his own thing the whole game.

Doesn't mean he's not MVP - but those rebounding stats are definitely inflated.

[bondom34]

a point guard can't grab 18 boards unless he is stat padding and the entire team allows it.

How about 16? Because Harden's done that. And if you'd watch these games you'd see this isn't true.

I mean, they're kinda right. Westbrook doesn't really play within the framework of the offense or defense. He kinda just freelances and does his own thing the whole game.

Doesn't mean he's not MVP - but those rebounding stats are definitely inflated.

Inflated isn't stat padding. Stat padding is going for stats over team.

I told myself I'd stay out of this thread, think I'm going back to that.

[PeptoKlepto]

How about 16? Because Harden's done that. And if you'd watch these games you'd see this isn't true.

I mean, they're kinda right. Westbrook doesn't really play within the framework of the offense or defense. He kinda just freelances and does his own thing the whole game.

Doesn't mean he's not MVP - but those rebounding stats are definitely inflated.

Inflated isn't stat padding. Stat padding is going for stats over team.

I told myself I'd stay out of this thread, think I'm going back to that.

Like I said, It can be looked at as stat padding if he's sagging off or leaving his responsibilities on the perimeter to grab more rebounds. He doesn't really play within a team a concept a lot of the time.

[bondom34]

I mean, they're kinda right. Westbrook doesn't really play within the framework of the offense or defense. He kinda just freelances and does his own thing the whole game.

Doesn't mean he's not MVP - but those rebounding stats are definitely inflated.

Inflated isn't stat padding. Stat padding is going for stats over team.

I told myself I'd stay out of this thread, think I'm going back to that.

Like I said, It can be looked at as stat padding if he's sagging off or leaving his responsibilities on the perimeter to grab more rebounds. He doesn't really play within a team a concept a lot of the time.

Except the defense is better w/ him on court and he's been a better defender than the other MVP guards. Again, if you want to take down other players to prop up your guy, fine. But its not a valid argument if it isn't stat padding. He's not, so it's not. I'm out, I'll let everyone argue for Curry/Harden/Lebron now.

[Starboy]

Westbrook is clearly going out of his way to get rebounds, which is fine, but I don't think it's ridiculously impressive to grab 3 contested rebounds on 27 rebound attempts.

Not enough to overshadow taking 27 shots to hit 27 points at least...


I'm under impression that he would be a much better player if he took less shots and put in the same effort into defending as he does into not defending and chasing rebounds now.

[PeptoKlepto]

Inflated isn't stat padding. Stat padding is going for stats over team.

I told myself I'd stay out of this thread, think I'm going back to that.

Like I said, It can be looked at as stat padding if he's sagging off or leaving his responsibilities on the perimeter to grab more rebounds. He doesn't really play within a team a concept a lot of the time.

Except the defense is better w/ him on court and he's been a better defender than the other MVP guards. Again, if you want to take down other players to prop up your guy, fine. But its not a valid argument if it isn't stat padding. He's not, so it's not. I'm out, I'll let everyone argue for Curry/Harden/Lebron now.

I just said that Westbrook is the MVP a few posts up regardless if he's stat padding. His +/- and RPM are off the charts which is why I have him above Harden.

That doesn't mean his freelancing tendencies aren't meant to stat pad his box score line. It can be both.

[Starboy]

Inflated isn't stat padding. Stat padding is going for stats over team.

I told myself I'd stay out of this thread, think I'm going back to that.

Like I said, It can be looked at as stat padding if he's sagging off or leaving his responsibilities on the perimeter to grab more rebounds. He doesn't really play within a team a concept a lot of the time.

Except the defense is better w/ him on court and he's been a better defender than the other MVP guards. Again, if you want to take down other players to prop up your guy, fine. But its not a valid argument if it isn't stat padding. He's not, so it's not. I'm out, I'll let everyone argue for Curry/Harden/Lebron now.

You can put in a weak defensive player into a strong defensive line-up. This has been proven many many many times. He's absolutely not a better defender than CP3, Wall, Curry or Lowry. Thomas puts in effort, but he has severe height limitations. Westbrook has all the athletic ability and none of the effort.

[lilswift01]

Westbrook is clearly going out of his way to get rebounds, which is fine, but I don't think it's ridiculously impressive to grab 3 contested rebounds on 27 rebound attempts.

Not enough to overshadow taking 27 shots to hit 27 points at least...


I'm under impression that he would be a much better player if he took less shots and put in the same effort into defending as he does into not defending and chasing rebounds now.

Its impressive nonetheless that he even attempted 27 rebounds...crazy motor.

[zimpy27]

Harden will be the MVP

[K_chile22]

Westbrook is clearly going out of his way to get rebounds, which is fine, but I don't think it's ridiculously impressive to grab 3 contested rebounds on 27 rebound attempts.

Not enough to overshadow taking 27 shots to hit 27 points at least...


I'm under impression that he would be a much better player if he took less shots and put in the same effort into defending as he does into not defending and chasing rebounds now.

Its impressive nonetheless that he even attempted 27 rebounds...crazy motor.

IDK where that number even comes from. According to NBA.com Hassan leads the NBA in rebound chances at 24 a game, Westbrook at 14.8. Not trying to take Westbrook down or anything, I just don't understand these numbers he's giving.