Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued

[phraoh]

Kyrie isn't worried about Lebron leaving....he is worried about him staying !! He doesn't want to be in the same room as Lebron, and he is jealous of the special perks/attention and fawning Lebron receives. This is a selfish move by Kyrie and shows he cares more about himself and his "brand" than he does winning...why else would he list NY as one of the 4 places he wants to play !!

[AirP.]

Kyrie isn't worried about Lebron leaving....he is worried about him staying !! He doesn't want to be in the same room as Lebron, and he is jealous of the special perks/attention and fawning Lebron receives. This is a selfish move by Kyrie and shows he cares more about himself and his "brand" than he does winning...why else would he list NY as one of the 4 places he wants to play !!

He grew up in the Brooklyn area so there's a strong possibility that he grew up a Knicks fan since Brooklyn didn't have a team till 2012.

[MartinToVaught]

Based on the reaction from LBJ's camp, I think the real reason he wants out is that he really doesn't want to play with LBJ anymore. Today, on ESPN they said he almost asked for trade last year, after the Cavs won a championship, when LBJ re-signed.

I wouldn't be surprised if Kyrie never wanted to play with LeBron. He clearly has a massive ego and couldn't bear the thought of anyone taking the spotlight away from him on "his" team - even the greatest player of this generation.

For all the haters' narratives about how LeBron is selfish and a control freak, he bent over backwards to make it work with Kyrie. When he came back to Cleveland, he referred to the Cavs as "Kyrie's show." He allowed Kyrie to hold the ball longer than him, lead the team in shots and get almost as many touches as him despite being the significantly worse player. He even got Kyrie a ring! I think that's probably why LeBron is so angry at Kyrie. No matter how hard he tried to make it work, nothing short of being the only "star" in the locker room would ever be enough for Kyrie's ego.

You're not trying to make it work for anyone when you're unwilling to commit long term to that team in the first place. If Lebron leaves, Irving is hung out to dry with a roster full of Lebron's overpaid buddies, and I don't think Lebron gives a second thought to Kyrie should he bolt.

And Kyrie was committed? His camp was making noise about wanting out of Cleveland from the day he got there. He signed his post-rookie-contract extension strictly for the money, and he is already trying to force his way out of town with multiple years left on that deal.

It has nothing to do with LeBron's level of commitment, despite how hard the anti-LeBron crowd tries to spin it that way. It's about Kyrie and his ego. Not even winning a championship was enough to make Kyrie stop whining and pouting about his role on the team. That should tell you something.

I wonder what the anti-LeBron crowd will say if Kyrie gets to one of his preferred destinations and it dawns on him that he's still going to be the sidekick to Kawhi/Towns/Porzingis/Whiteside. I guess they'll just drop the subject and pretend that Kyrie doesn't exist, since he'll no longer be useful for their agenda.

[andrewww]

Kyrie isn't worried about Lebron leaving....he is worried about him staying !! He doesn't want to be in the same room as Lebron, and he is jealous of the special perks/attention and fawning Lebron receives. This is a selfish move by Kyrie and shows he cares more about himself and his "brand" than he does winning...why else would he list NY as one of the 4 places he wants to play !!

Its funny you say that. Wasn't KD criticized because he was "selfish" and wanted a "cheap" ring? Now that Kyrie is pulling the opposite move he's labelled as "selfish"?

This forum is hilarious. Pretty obvious that a large amount (not all of course) of posters criticizing both moves are pro-Lebron. If anyone should be criticized, its Lebron. Dude leaked this trade request at the expense of his own (current for now) team getting good value back for Kyrie, just to protect his brand so he can justify leaving again in 2018.

[Seabass11]

I've gotta laugh at some of my fellow Cavs fans for getting so angry at Kyrie. The dude gave his entire young adulthood to this city without ANY ties to it beforehand. He delivered "the shot" that gave us our first championship in 50 years...i repeat...50 years. And you guys are out here acting like he orchestrated a 1 hour ESPN special to announce this decision. He's telling us TWO years before his contract is up which gives us a chance to get a decent return which is WAYYY more than we will get if LeBron leaves next year (most we can hope for is a few picks in a SnT)...

I don't blame Kyrie one bit for not playing LeBron's "will he stay or will he go" BS. We all knew this Super Team was going to end in a rebuild, especially after Durant's decision. Pre-Durant there was hope Ky/Love could carry LeBron to a few chips in his later years but alas...that was not to be. The same people saying we should have traded Kyrie for Butler are the ones pissed at him for wanting to leave now. "Loyalty" is a one way street to those people.

To Kyrie: Thanks for being my favorite player in the league to watch for the past 6 years. You bring a certain flare to the game and rise up in the biggest moments. I will never forget the feeling I had after "The Shot" and the joy that it brought me. Go do your thing Young Fella.

I think its also worth noting that by all accounts (and if you think logically as well from a motive POV), it definitely wasn't Kyrie's camp who leaked the news about him wanting out especially if he had a private meeting with management a week ago. So as to not lower his trade value. It wouldn't make sense for management to leak this either. It would however, make sense for Lebron's camp to leak it; make Kyrie the scapegoat so he can justify leaving again. I wouldn't underestimate Lebron's PR team to sell a narrative such as him "coming home" for example.

If Lebron didn't care about exercising as much power as he could and to protect his brand, his teams may have been more successful in Miami and now Cleveland. Instead, the weak minded front office of theirs was pressured by their own superstar to make "win now" moves and drain the team of its assets including cap space.

Yeah I fully agree. Kyrie obviously had a change of heart and attempted to do things the right way by keeping it in house and giving the team fair warning. Part of me wonders if he didn't actually tell them earlier and that's why his name was floating around in rumors for PG13 around the draft. Then maybe Indiana found out they weren't on his "preferred list" and backed out.

But anyways, I think you're correct. This all circles back to LeBron's lack of commitment. Which really wasted his last year in CLE the first time around, his last year in MIA, and now may have forced his sidekick out because finally someone isn't taking his s***.

LeBron holds teams hostage. Its a sacrifice that was WELL worth it (16 champs baby!) but it is a downside to having the King on your team nonetheless. There's really very little difference bw the way MIA was run during Bron's tenure there, and the way CLE is being run now yet CLE is seen as a bad front office and MIA is considered one of the best. Both were cap locked with a very solid big 3 and filled the holes with ring chasing vets. Only difference is MIA wasn't pressured into handing out ridiculous contracts to LeBron's Klutch sports buddies

[Bobalob]

If i were the Cavs right now i'd be a little ruthless and ignore 'do they fit with lebron' in any trade scenario. I'd look purely at 'blue chip youth' and quality picks (ie projected to be top 5-10)

For 2 reasons:

1-If Lebron wants to excercsie max flexibility and not sign that's cool, but what comes with that is you have to cover your ass and asume he's leaving.

2) Lebron is so good that the Cavs could actually win the east as constructed---WITHOUT Kyrie. They wouldnt be a top seed, it wuldnt be easy, but yes he's that good (and the roster is that solid).

So if you add youth and picks you'd still be the same position you were in last year: in the finals with no chance to beat GS, but covered if Bron leave.

Add vets, say Bledsoe and Melo, you're in the finals with no chance to beat GS... AND Melo and Bron bounce and you stuck with Eric Bledsoe

[MartinToVaught]

Kyrie isn't worried about Lebron leaving....he is worried about him staying !! He doesn't want to be in the same room as Lebron, and he is jealous of the special perks/attention and fawning Lebron receives. This is a selfish move by Kyrie and shows he cares more about himself and his "brand" than he does winning...why else would he list NY as one of the 4 places he wants to play !!

Its funny you say that. Wasn't KD criticized because he was "selfish" and wanted a "cheap" ring? Now that Kyrie is pulling the opposite move he's labelled as "selfish"?

This forum is hilarious. Pretty obvious that a large amount (not all of course) of posters criticizing both moves are pro-Lebron. If anyone should be criticized, its Lebron. Dude leaked this trade request at the expense of his own (current for now) team getting good value back for Kyrie, just to protect his brand so he can justify leaving again in 2018.

KD was criticized for joining the 73-win team that had just beaten him in the playoffs. It's not even the fact that he left OKC that angered most fans, it's the specific team he chose to sign with.

Kyrie has recieved a tiny amount of criticism (drowned out by the deluge of fawning praise from the anti-LeBron crowd) for forcing his way off the team that drafted him while under contract for several more years because he values stats over winning.

Both situations are completely different, and both situations are worthy of criticism for different reasons. It's intellectually dishonest to compare the two.

[andrewww]

I've gotta laugh at some of my fellow Cavs fans for getting so angry at Kyrie. The dude gave his entire young adulthood to this city without ANY ties to it beforehand. He delivered "the shot" that gave us our first championship in 50 years...i repeat...50 years. And you guys are out here acting like he orchestrated a 1 hour ESPN special to announce this decision. He's telling us TWO years before his contract is up which gives us a chance to get a decent return which is WAYYY more than we will get if LeBron leaves next year (most we can hope for is a few picks in a SnT)...

I don't blame Kyrie one bit for not playing LeBron's "will he stay or will he go" BS. We all knew this Super Team was going to end in a rebuild, especially after Durant's decision. Pre-Durant there was hope Ky/Love could carry LeBron to a few chips in his later years but alas...that was not to be. The same people saying we should have traded Kyrie for Butler are the ones pissed at him for wanting to leave now. "Loyalty" is a one way street to those people.

To Kyrie: Thanks for being my favorite player in the league to watch for the past 6 years. You bring a certain flare to the game and rise up in the biggest moments. I will never forget the feeling I had after "The Shot" and the joy that it brought me. Go do your thing Young Fella.

I think its also worth noting that by all accounts (and if you think logically as well from a motive POV), it definitely wasn't Kyrie's camp who leaked the news about him wanting out especially if he had a private meeting with management a week ago. So as to not lower his trade value. It wouldn't make sense for management to leak this either. It would however, make sense for Lebron's camp to leak it; make Kyrie the scapegoat so he can justify leaving again. I wouldn't underestimate Lebron's PR team to sell a narrative such as him "coming home" for example.

If Lebron didn't care about exercising as much power as he could and to protect his brand, his teams may have been more successful in Miami and now Cleveland. Instead, the weak minded front office of theirs was pressured by their own superstar to make "win now" moves and drain the team of its assets including cap space.

Yeah I fully agree. Kyrie obviously had a change of heart and attempted to do things the right way by keeping it in house and giving the team fair warning. Part of me wonders if he didn't actually tell them earlier and that's why his name was floating around in rumors for PG13 around the draft. Then maybe Indiana found out they weren't on his "preferred list" and backed out.

But anyways, I think you're correct. This all circles back to LeBron's lack of commitment. Which really wasted his last year in CLE the first time around, his last year in MIA, and now may have forced his sidekick out because finally someone isn't taking his s***.

LeBron holds teams hostage. Its a sacrifice that was WELL worth it (16 champs baby!) but it is a downside to having the King on your team nonetheless. There's really very little difference bw the way MIA was run during Bron's tenure there, and the way CLE is being run now yet CLE is seen as a bad front office and MIA is considered one of the best. Both were cap locked with a very solid big 3 and filled the holes with ring chasing vets. Only difference is MIA wasn't pressured into handing out ridiculous contracts to LeBron's Klutch sports buddies

Agreed that MIA wasnt handing out bad contracts like CLE is.

I will say this, and I've always believed that the 2016 comeback from 3-1 was league assisted even though Kyrie and Lebron played lights out. I've seen too much evidence such as the convenient suspension in game 5 that they didnt do in the OKC series, the Curry foul trouble in game 6.... it got the Cavs their elusive ring, but at the same time led KD to GSW and what looks to be GSW domination for the forseeable future.

Was it worth it from your POV? I would say probably yes because you take the ring any day of the week.

[elBJ]

I respect Kyrie for his wish to elevate his game. He is in the perfect position for himself in Cleveland, but he is 25 and there is maybe more in him than being a glorified Jamal Crawford. With the holes and glaring weaknesses of his game he is much more suited to play 2nd fiddle to Lebron, than being the man on a winning Basketball-team. But he wants the challenge and this is a good thing.

What really sucks is the atrocious timing of his request, if he would've made it clear pre-draft - he would be dealt by now.
But I think the market is dried up and Cleveland will be waiting for offers and only fire if a Team falls in love with Kyrie and overpays for him.

Partial blame goes to Cleveland, turning into a dumpster fire and Lebron, grabbing as much power inside the organization and then checking out while it's turning into said dumpster fire.

I think he stays, if not for a team emptying it's coffers and Kyrie being the man on a 30 win team going nowhere.

[Sothron]

Kyrie isn't worried about Lebron leaving....he is worried about him staying !! He doesn't want to be in the same room as Lebron, and he is jealous of the special perks/attention and fawning Lebron receives. This is a selfish move by Kyrie and shows he cares more about himself and his "brand" than he does winning...why else would he list NY as one of the 4 places he wants to play !!

Its funny you say that. Wasn't KD criticized because he was "selfish" and wanted a "cheap" ring? Now that Kyrie is pulling the opposite move he's labelled as "selfish"?

This forum is hilarious. Pretty obvious that a large amount (not all of course) of posters criticizing both moves are pro-Lebron. If anyone should be criticized, its Lebron. Dude leaked this trade request at the expense of his own (current for now) team getting good value back for Kyrie, just to protect his brand so he can justify leaving again in 2018.

KD was criticized for joining the 73-win team that had just beaten him in the playoffs. It's not even the fact that he left OKC that angered most fans, it's the specific team he chose to sign with.

Kyrie has recieved a tiny amount of criticism (drowned out by the deluge of fawning praise from the anti-LeBron crowd) for forcing his way off the team that drafted him while under contract for several more years because he values stats over winning.

Both situations are completely different, and both situations are worthy of criticism for different reasons. It's intellectually dishonest to compare the two.

Is that as intellectually dishonest as saying Kyrie is "signed for several years" when "several" actually means "two"?

[Guest202]

Kyrie isn't worried about Lebron leaving....he is worried about him staying !! He doesn't want to be in the same room as Lebron, and he is jealous of the special perks/attention and fawning Lebron receives. This is a selfish move by Kyrie and shows he cares more about himself and his "brand" than he does winning...why else would he list NY as one of the 4 places he wants to play !!

He grew up in the Brooklyn area so there's a strong possibility that he grew up a Knicks fan since Brooklyn didn't have a team till 2012.

...Kyrie has a lot of childhood connections to Boston too.

[skones]

And Kyrie was committed? His camp was making noise about wanting out of Cleveland from the day he got there. He signed his post-rookie-contract extension strictly for the money, and he is already trying to force his way out of town with multiple years left on that deal.

It has nothing to do with LeBron's level of commitment, despite how hard the anti-LeBron crowd tries to spin it that way. It's about Kyrie and his ego. Not even winning a championship was enough to make Kyrie stop whining and pouting about his role on the team. That should tell you something.

I wonder what the anti-LeBron crowd will say if Kyrie gets to one of his preferred destinations and it dawns on him that he's still going to be the sidekick to Kawhi/Towns/Porzingis/Whiteside. I guess they'll just drop the subject and pretend that Kyrie doesn't exist, since he'll no longer be useful for their agenda.

Kyrie signed a 5 year 90 million dollar extension. I'd say that that, in and of itself, shows a willingness to work through any problems he may have had at that period of time.

If you're a player, and you've got a guy who pulls the strings with management, has tapped out any money that team can spend on middling players, and he won't give you a long term commitment and could bolt at any time, wouldn't you want to leave too?

This comes down to one simple fact. If Lebron leaves, Kyrie is absolutely ****. This is completely separate of whether Kyrie is good enough or not to be "the man" on a team (which I don't think he is). This has more to do with foresight than anything else imo. Cleveland is a trainwreck waiting to happen at this point. 67 million sunk into Love/Thompson/Smith/Shumpert 18-19 and 60 sunk into Love/Thompson/Smith the following year. If Love leaves they take a step back, if he doesn't there's limited flexibility. That's not a good situation.

[Bobalob]

Kyrie isn't worried about Lebron leaving....he is worried about him staying !! He doesn't want to be in the same room as Lebron, and he is jealous of the special perks/attention and fawning Lebron receives. This is a selfish move by Kyrie and shows he cares more about himself and his "brand" than he does winning...why else would he list NY as one of the 4 places he wants to play !!

He grew up in the Brooklyn area so there's a strong possibility that he grew up a Knicks fan since Brooklyn didn't have a team till 2012.

...Kyrie has a lot of childhood connections to Boston too.

This comment is funny bc it reads as if Kyrie has any choice. He aint a free agent my G

I hope he has some connections in Utah

[Jordan45822]

LeBron James‏Verified account @KingJames 6m6 minutes ago
LeBron James Retweeted SLAM Magazine
#NotFacts people!Boooo!! Get another source. #EnjoyingMySummer #YouDoTheSame

talking about the rumor that he wants Kyrie traded

[NBAFan93]

LeBron is tweeting replies on the stories that he is angry w/ Kyrie and that he's eager for him to be traded saying that they are not facts...

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Maybe his anger at Kyrie is blow out of proportion.

[Bobalob]

LeBron is tweeting replies on the stories that he is angry w/ Kyrie and that he's eager for him to be traded saying that they are not facts...

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Maybe his anger at Kyrie is blow out of proportion.

I mean of course.

"LEBRON SAYS HE WANTS TO BEAT HIS ASS!!" Like dude really? Lmao

Brian Windhorst and Adrian Wojnarski calmly tell the story for the story it is---the stuff sells itself---and here comes Stephen A like a bull in a china shop talking about passive anti-confrontation Bron is saying he wants to beat Kyrie ass gtfoh lol

[AirP.]

He grew up in the Brooklyn area so there's a strong possibility that he grew up a Knicks fan since Brooklyn didn't have a team till 2012.

...Kyrie has a lot of childhood connections to Boston too.

This comment is funny bc it reads as if Kyrie has any choice. He aint a free agent my G

I hope he has some connections in Utah

Your right, he has no choice but if he's traded next year(if LeBron leaves) it could be for as many assets as Cleveland could get to rebuild, meaning he'll go to a horrible team. If he's traded this year they'll want a package to be good enough to help them get back to the finals. It's all about Cleveland with and without LeBron. If Cleveland is trading Irving they shouldn't care where he goes, just get the best return. Kyrie being traded now just stops some teams like for instance... Orlando, Brooklyn, Dallas and Chicago because they don't have a piece to help Cleveland now. Phoenix is interesting because of it's assets and Bledsoe would help them now. They talked to Chicago before Butler was traded because Butler would help them.

[Seabass11]

I think its also worth noting that by all accounts (and if you think logically as well from a motive POV), it definitely wasn't Kyrie's camp who leaked the news about him wanting out especially if he had a private meeting with management a week ago. So as to not lower his trade value. It wouldn't make sense for management to leak this either. It would however, make sense for Lebron's camp to leak it; make Kyrie the scapegoat so he can justify leaving again. I wouldn't underestimate Lebron's PR team to sell a narrative such as him "coming home" for example.

If Lebron didn't care about exercising as much power as he could and to protect his brand, his teams may have been more successful in Miami and now Cleveland. Instead, the weak minded front office of theirs was pressured by their own superstar to make "win now" moves and drain the team of its assets including cap space.

Yeah I fully agree. Kyrie obviously had a change of heart and attempted to do things the right way by keeping it in house and giving the team fair warning. Part of me wonders if he didn't actually tell them earlier and that's why his name was floating around in rumors for PG13 around the draft. Then maybe Indiana found out they weren't on his "preferred list" and backed out.

But anyways, I think you're correct. This all circles back to LeBron's lack of commitment. Which really wasted his last year in CLE the first time around, his last year in MIA, and now may have forced his sidekick out because finally someone isn't taking his s***.

LeBron holds teams hostage. Its a sacrifice that was WELL worth it (16 champs baby!) but it is a downside to having the King on your team nonetheless. There's really very little difference bw the way MIA was run during Bron's tenure there, and the way CLE is being run now yet CLE is seen as a bad front office and MIA is considered one of the best. Both were cap locked with a very solid big 3 and filled the holes with ring chasing vets. Only difference is MIA wasn't pressured into handing out ridiculous contracts to LeBron's Klutch sports buddies

Agreed that MIA wasnt handing out bad contracts like CLE is.

I will say this, and I've always believed that the 2016 comeback from 3-1 was league assisted even though Kyrie and Lebron played lights out. I've seen too much evidence such as the convenient suspension in game 5 that they didnt do in the OKC series, the Curry foul trouble in game 6.... it got the Cavs their elusive ring, but at the same time led KD to GSW and what looks to be GSW domination for the forseeable future.

Was it worth it from your POV? I would say probably yes because you take the ring any day of the week.

100% worth it. And if you want to believe last year was gifted to the Cavs by the league that's fine. I won't have that argument. But if Kyrie/Love aren't hurt in 2015 I think the Cavs win so either way I believe the even split was the basketball Gods getting it right.

IMO LeBron is the greatest basketball player of all time. Throw resumes out the window, I think LeBron James can impact more areas of a game than anyone else ever has. I don't know if we'll ever see another player lead all 5 major statistical categories for an entire 7 game Finals series ever again like he did in 2016. But his stubbornness and need to control everything is a lot of baggage that ultimately will hurt the franchise in the end (hopefully after a couple chips tho )

[Hello Brooklyn]

Here is my half baked trade idea.

Cleveland In: Marc Gasol, Mike Conely
Cleveland Out: Kyrie Irving, JR Smith, Tristan Thompson

Memphis In: Kyrie Irving, JR Smith, Tristan Thompson
Memphis Out: Marc Gasol, Mike Conely

Why would Memphis do this deal?

Memphis gets the chance to rebuild and build around Kyrie.

They're a fringe playoff team, and even if they make it theyre getting knocked out in the First Round.

This would take them off the treadmill.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Here is my half baked trade idea.

Cleveland In: Marc Gasol, Mike Conely
Cleveland Out: Kyrie Irving, JR Smith, Tristan Thompson

Memphis In: Kyrie Irving, JR Smith, Tristan Thompson
Memphis Out: Marc Gasol, Mike Conely

Why would Memphis do this deal?

Cavs would be lucky to get just Gasol. Forget about Conley, plus they have Rose now which might actually be a better fit than Kyrie. What they need is a bonafide Center which they get in Gasol. Then trade Love for Carmelo. No need for Memphis to trade Conley. Memphis would need a replacement Center, however which is why I don't think they would do it. They'd have to play Conley and Kyrie in the backcourt with Kyrie playing the 2 (which would be even worse defense).

Gasol/Thompson
Lebron or Melo
Melo or Lebron
JR/Korver
Rose/Felder

This would be better for Cleveland however.

Rose is not the answer.

Bill Simmons said on his podcast that Kyrie and Love for Conely and Gasol could work.

I think that might be too much for Cleveland though.