What's preventing Demar DeRozan from making that leap into a Superstardom like Harden years ago?

[bon]

What makes DeRozan better than Oladipo?

The only SG that's been better than Oladipo this season is Harden. DeRozan's great at drawing fouls and is a better ballhandler/playmaker but that doesn't make up for all the other aspects that Oladipo kills him in.

[bon]

Based on your post, doesnt seem like you're on the same planet as everyone else either. Oladipo couldnt hold Derozan's jockstrap

Dude

Watch on YouTube

This was only 5 days ago lol..

Anyway I'm not sure what he has to do with this discussion

[Doctor MJ]

DeRozan still is struggling to hit 3's in an era where EVERYONE can hit 3's. He clearly can't learn skills with the same ease that Kobe could.

This is grossly incorrect. DeRozan has improved SOME skill every year that he's been in the league. He simply decided that 3 pt shooting would not be a priority until this past offseason. He made a conservative effort to improve his 3 point shooting, and he has shown that this season. But now the problem is his ability to pick his spots. If he adds that into his game, his 3 pt percentage will improve. His increased 3pt attempts have lead to his eFG% to be at a career high (minus his low attempt rookie year).

Inconsistency and 3pt shooting are what hold DeRozan back. I believe he has the ability to learn the latter. The former...not so sure.

So it's not that he can't learn to shoot 3's, it's just that he doesn't see the value in it despite the fact pretty much every elite perimeter scorer shoots 3's?

I don't actually think that's a crazy statement, though I'd personally say it's not an either/or situation, but rather some of both. I'm sure you wouldn't argue that all players learn the 3 just as quickly, and I'm sure you wouldn't deny that those who struggle to do so tend to prioritize other things.

[King Ken]

Oladipo is better than DeRozan but DeRozan has been really impressive this year.

[BetterCallSaul]

Oladipo is having an incredible season. If he keeps this up then yes he is better than DeMar but he also makes the James Harden type quantum leap from sixth man to budding superstar. I didn't see this coming but you can tell he made a huge stride in the way he worked this past off-season.
Man has a chip on his shoulder and it's nice to see players play like that.

Hopefully he keeps it up and shuts me and a lot of other people up about the Paul George trade.

[jonjames]

Oladipo is better than DeRozan but DeRozan has been really impressive this year.

Oladipo has to prove it longer than just this season to make such a statement. Its no different than saying donovan mitchell is better than gordon hayward. Lets oladipo prove himself further..derozan has been a top 5sg for the past half decade.

[King Ken]

Oladipo is better than DeRozan but DeRozan has been really impressive this year.

Oladipo has to prove it longer than just this season to make such a statement. Its no different than saying donovan mitchell is better than gordon hayward. Lets oladipo prove himself further..derozan has been a top 5sg for the past half decade.

Vic has always had the ability, he just hasn't been in the right system with the right personnel grouping. For all DeRozan is, Toronto was able to build with him due to Lowry's impact, not DeMar's.

[Pelly24]

Demar Derozan is a guy that can get you 25 ppg on good efficiency and pass the rock well enough. Last time I checked, he's a bad defender, but he's a really solid scorer that can help any team. He can handle the ball fairly well, doesn't have a dynamic burst or amazing change of direction abilities, but he's a good athlete with strong leaping ability and amazing body control.

That said, his lack of great athleticism, or elite athleticism like a Kobe, DWade, MJ, or even a Harden, and a lack of a three ball or truly elite midrange percentages (shooting let's say, over 45%) and a lack of a three ball and truly advanced handle make his ceiling lower than that of a superstar. No shame in that; hes a really good player and people should stop trying to downplay him.

[sca]

Derozan isn't nearly the shooter, passer, ballhandler, or defender that Harden is. If he just worked on those areas of his game and improved dramatically he'd have a shot.

Harden right now is playing at one of the highest levels of basketball we've ever seen and Derozan is just a run of the mill starter. The gap between Harden and Derozan is remarkably similar to the gap between Harden and Joe Harris so I just want to make sure I don't give you the impression it will be easy to make this "leap" this late in his career. I'd consider it pretty unlikely really.

Dude, what?

[Volcano]

In terms of his offensive impact..you can see in a lot of those highlights, he displays all that footwork only to end up taking shots with high difficulty. In past seasons, he wouldn't exactly make those long range jumpers at a high clip. However, he has made minor adjustments every season, increasing the frequency of close shots as his efficiency increases closer to the basket

Presently, his long mid-range shooting is getting better and he's smarter about his passing. In the end though, those "Derozan" shots are never going to beat a wide open 40% three point shooter or an easy bucket at the rim in the long run. So whenever he chooses to opt for those bad shots as his initial offensive option, it decreases the chances for the team to generate an even better offense.

Instead he has to pick his spots and opt for tough shots when the team is struggling. Once he masters that, his offensive metrics will improve. Of course, there's also the 3 point shooting and high level court vision thing.

[Volcano]

Have you even read this thread? There are tons of Raps fans who don't like him who have posted.

As far as why the Raps fans (who like him) like him, probably because he's led them to multiple ECF's. Their best stretch ever as a franchise. Not that complicated.

Not entirely, don't have time to read every page of every thread I post in. Sorry.

And the stats I cited would imply he hasn't (led them to the ECF), wouldn't they?

Don't make assumptions anymore than.

And yes, he's absolutely led them along with Lowry.

Raptors only made one ECF, not multiple..both Lowry and Derozan also underperformed in most of their playoff series. The Raptor's strength has always been with their bench unit and the supporting cast the Masai brought in (and in regular season, Lowry would play at almost superstar levels). They got past Miami/Indiana that one year largely due to their strong supporting cast. Lowry/Derozan taking turns bricking in a lot of the games was actually detrimental to the team.

[HoopsMalone]

Derozan isn't nearly the shooter, passer, ballhandler, or defender that Harden is. If he just worked on those areas of his game and improved dramatically he'd have a shot.

Harden right now is playing at one of the highest levels of basketball we've ever seen and Derozan is just a run of the mill starter. The gap between Harden and Derozan is remarkably similar to the gap between Harden and Joe Harris so I just want to make sure I don't give you the impression it will be easy to make this "leap" this late in his career. I'd consider it pretty unlikely really.

Dude, what?

You see having a guy like Derozan on the floor limits your offense's efficiency because he hampers other player's effectiveness. While a guy like Harris fills the role of a more natural SG and therefore helps your offense function more efficiently. So they end up basically having the same value (with regards to wins) as a basketball player.

Demar Derozan is like a girl with a pretty face that has a flabby body but she was wearing loose clothing when you met her after the office Christmas party. When you get her home you'll realize there's a reason no one else wanted her.

[Volcano]

The Raptors benches have also been among the best in the league for years. Derozan has played with 6 man of the year winners and some plus defenders behind him. It’s a Masai Ujiri strength because he finds late steals in drafts and also good reclamation projects. These bench squads share time with Lowry and destroy opposition benches over small samples of a game that add up. This is often when Derozan is sitting. Real plus minus and net rating both equalize small samples over 100 or 200 possessions respectively in order to better compare talents and so the Raptors bench squad minutes are partially oversold as being better when they really aren’t facing the opposition’s best as often. I’m sure it’s the same for Curry playing with Klay’s backup. It makes Klay seem worse defensively than he is because his backup is on the court for even better defensive runs versus opposing benches. Klay Thompson is seen as a negative defender on Real +/- but I suspect if you threw him on the Kings this year you’d see his on/off impact numbers even higher. Lineups and teammates can impact these team impact stats considerably and Lowry is an absolute monster in Real +/- and net rating stats.

Wasn't it proven that the bench thing was a myth? I see DD playing with and against bench players all the time.

Statistically, didn't DD play bench minutes ~21% of the time last year and Lowry ~24%? JV was 5-8%?

[KrazyP]

Raptors only made one ECF, not multiple..both Lowry and Derozan also underperformed in most of their playoff series. The Raptor's strength has always been with their bench unit and the supporting cast the Masai brought in

The "Strong supporting cast" of the team that made the ECF consisted of a whole bunch of scrubby guys like Scola, Biyombo, Patterson, Ross, Carroll, etc. What exactly have these guys done on their new teams since moving on from Toronto?

Demar and Lowry are better than people realize and the Raps coaching/system has always been better than its given credit for.

[Kabookalu]

Raptors only made one ECF, not multiple..both Lowry and Derozan also underperformed in most of their playoff series. The Raptor's strength has always been with their bench unit and the supporting cast the Masai brought in

The "Strong supporting cast" of the team that made the ECF consisted of a whole bunch of scrubby guys like Scola, Biyombo, Patterson, Ross, Carroll, etc. What exactly have these guys done on their new teams since moving on from Toronto?

Demar and Lowry are better than people realize and the Raps coaching/system has always been better than its given credit for.

The Raptors coaching staff is much better than people give it credit for, just that everyone focuses on one thing (Valanciunas' lack of touches) to completely discredit all their work.

[Capn'O]

Harden's combination of vision, timing, change of pace, handles, and range at his size is just unlike anything else in the league right now. There's no shame in not being as good as Harden, he's a legit all-time great offensively.

What's crazy is minus size the Rockets might have #2 also. Between Paul and Curry.

[Capn'O]

Raptors only made one ECF, not multiple..both Lowry and Derozan also underperformed in most of their playoff series. The Raptor's strength has always been with their bench unit and the supporting cast the Masai brought in

The "Strong supporting cast" of the team that made the ECF consisted of a whole bunch of scrubby guys like Scola, Biyombo, Patterson, Ross, Carroll, etc. What exactly have these guys done on their new teams since moving on from Toronto?

Demar and Lowry are better than people realize and the Raps coaching/system has always been better than its given credit for.

The Raptors coaching staff is much better than people give it credit for, just that everyone focuses on one thing (Valanciunas' lack of touches) to completely discredit all their work.

This has been my take from afar. They always seem a bit better than the sum of their parts and that usually means good coaching.

[Lego Legs]

Derozan isn't even on the same planet as Oladipo... Oladipo has become a star

Based on your post, doesnt seem like you're on the same planet as everyone else either. Oladipo couldnt hold Derozan's jockstrap

okay then,


explain why.

What makes DeRozan better than Oladipo?

Hmmm... DeRozan has made three all-star teams, finished amongst the top 5 in scoring, made it to a conference finals. Oladipo has been good for like a month. Your question is round the wrong-way. Right now, Oladipo hasn't done anything yet.

And, by the way, I'm not doubting Oladipo's talent, I think he's very good, it's just a hot take to make out like Demar suddenly has to prove himself over Oladipo after years of being on a good (not great) Raptors team.

[HoopsMalone]

Based on your post, doesnt seem like you're on the same planet as everyone else either. Oladipo couldnt hold Derozan's jockstrap

okay then,


explain why.

What makes DeRozan better than Oladipo?

Hmmm... DeRozan has made three all-star teams, finished amongst the top 5 in scoring, made it to a conference finals. Oladipo has been good for like a month. Your question is round the wrong-way. Right now, Oladipo hasn't done anything yet.

And, by the way, I'm not doubting Oladipo's talent, I think he's very good, it's just a hot take to make out like Demar suddenly has to prove himself over Oladipo after years of being on a good (not great) Raptors team.

Allstar teams and scoring lists are pretty bad ways to evaluate how good someone is. THat's how we end up with people thinking Demar Derozan's better than Victor Oladipo in the first place.

[sca]

Derozan isn't nearly the shooter, passer, ballhandler, or defender that Harden is. If he just worked on those areas of his game and improved dramatically he'd have a shot.

Harden right now is playing at one of the highest levels of basketball we've ever seen and Derozan is just a run of the mill starter. The gap between Harden and Derozan is remarkably similar to the gap between Harden and Joe Harris so I just want to make sure I don't give you the impression it will be easy to make this "leap" this late in his career. I'd consider it pretty unlikely really.

Dude, what?

You see having a guy like Derozan on the floor limits your offense's efficiency because he hampers other player's effectiveness. While a guy like Harris fills the role of a more natural SG and therefore helps your offense function more efficiently. So they end up basically having the same value (with regards to wins) as a basketball player.

Demar Derozan is like a girl with a pretty face that has a flabby body but she was wearing loose clothing when you met her after the office Christmas party. When you get her home you'll realize there's a reason no one else wanted her.

You’re pretty clueless about basketball if you honestly believe that. Like seriously, man. DeRozan and... Joe Harris? lol

Get your head out of the stat sheet and watch a Raptors game for once.