Is Iggy a Hall of Famer

Moderators: Clav, Domejandro, ken6199, bisme37, Dirk, KingDavid, cupcakesnake, bwgood77, zimpy27, infinite11285

Will Iguodola make the HOF?

Yes
175
44%
No
219
56%
 
Total votes: 394

Rainwater
RealGM
Posts: 12,224
And1: 7,360
Joined: Apr 02, 2017

Re: Is Iggy a Hall of Famer 

Post#161 » by Rainwater » Sun May 19, 2019 6:28 pm

benhillboy wrote:The Reference has him at a 6% chance. Compare that to 50% for Joe Johnson, 27% for Draymond, 7% for Isaiah Thomas, and an insane 8% for Giannis due to a very pedestrian playoff career up to this point (sure to boost toward 40% with a Finals MVP, even higher with a league MVP)

Advanced metrics don’t favor Iggy. Outside of defensive box and FT rate there isn’t much to write home about. A career 4.4:1.9 assist:turnover ratio pays dividends every night though. His IQ is so high for a player who never developed and mastered a decent shooting form from the line or the perimeter.


I agree that should jump up really quick if not this but next year. The guy is still very young.

But people real need to start paying attention to the Reference's probablitly rankings. It's pretty accurate for the most part.
MrPerfect1
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,372
And1: 3,433
Joined: Jul 02, 2013

Re: Is Iggy a Hall of Famer 

Post#162 » by MrPerfect1 » Sun May 19, 2019 6:32 pm

Iggy will make it because almost everyone seems to make it. The fact Vlade is in before Webber shows how absurd the HOF is.
User avatar
Galloisdaman
Analyst
Posts: 3,674
And1: 2,171
Joined: Mar 17, 2011

Re: Is Iggy a Hall of Famer 

Post#163 » by Galloisdaman » Sun May 19, 2019 6:38 pm

Rainwater wrote:
perimeter wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
Could you please explain to me how Iggy is going to get in? There are 100 guys that are just like him and haven't gotten in, how is he the exception???




There are not 100 guys in basketball history who have won 3 NBA Championships, an NBA Finals MVP and an Olympic Gold Medal. The list includes just 7 guys other than Iguodala.

Michael Jordan
Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Shaquille O'Neal
Kobe Bryant
Lebron James
Dwyane Wade


You guys are looking too much into the Olympic squad and 3 finals appearances where he was just a role player for the most part. Where other guys were all doing the heavy lifting and he had to just watch.

You guys are just net picking at this point. There is so much more that guys in to the hall of fame. Iggy is no were as dominant as those guys you have listed. All those guys were multiple time all stars, multiple time all NBA squads, some were multiple time season MVP winners, if they did not win the season MVP they were almost always considered in top 10 MVP voting, they were scoring champs, they were 2nd or 1st options on there respective teams NEVER ROLE PLAYERS, playoff beast. These are things that Iggy has never been and never will be.

There are real people in the gray like Webber, Tim Hardaway, Amar'e, Bilups, Big Ben. And Iggy is not even that.

So disgusted with this tread.


Simple scenario: If you can not even make a crazy reach case for any player being a Hall Of Famer without bringing up rings then does that player really even deserve consideration?
My eyes glaze over when reading alternative stat (not advanced stat) narratives that go many paragraphs long. If you can not make your point in 2 paragraphs it may not be a great point. :D
DoItALL9
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,935
And1: 1,345
Joined: Oct 08, 2016
       

Re: Is Iggy a Hall of Famer 

Post#164 » by DoItALL9 » Sun May 19, 2019 6:41 pm

Galloisdaman wrote:
DoItALL9 wrote:
Galloisdaman wrote:
That is what a team is about but would they have won without Curry? Without Klay? Without Green? Without Livingston? Often championships take contributions from many players. That does not mean they are all hall of famers.

The Cavs would not have won in 2016 without Tristan Thompsons 10points and 10 rebounds a game. Does that make him a driving force for that ring and deserving of the hall of fame?

Rings do not equal hall of fame and lack of rings does not mean they are not a hall of famer.


Galloisdaman wrote:



I don't believe the Warriors would've won those championships if they were missing any of those players minus Shaun Livingston. They didn't only win once. They're possibly about to win their 4th which is very significant in the history of the game.

Tristan Thompson's (significant) contribution to 1 title is not truly comparable.

The 2004 Detroit Pistons did not have a superstar player. They won as unit. One ring doesn't earn them HoF status in my opinion however if they had won 4 in a row or 4 in 5 years as the Warriors look apt to do they would be. There's precedence for this with the 60s Celtics. Not every player made the Hall but key contributors did.

Also, it doesn't make sense to try to tell the history of the game which is what the Hall does and not include a Finals MVP. "You play to win the game" and he was deemed the most important player of the series that everyone set out at the start of the year to win.

"Rings do not equal hall of fame and lack of rings does not mean they are not a hall of famer."

Maybe not in your opinion but at a certain point they do seemingly in Springfield, MA if you're a key contributer.

"Key" is subjective though.



Sent from my LG-H872 using RealGM mobile app


I think being a significant player is what qualifies you for the Hall Of Fame not rings. Judging guys by rings for a team game where a guy is a passenger not a driver is crazy. Iggy has not even been a great playoff player for GS. He averages 9ppg and shoots around 53% from the line in his 6 playoff seasons with GS. He has had some good moments but that is not a hall of fame career. If not for Curry, Klay, Green, and Durant would you be mentioning Iggy as a Hall Of Famer? Other guys on a team should not make someone a hall of famer. You mentioned being a finals mvp. Larry Brown of the Cowboys was a superbowl MVP. By this way of thinking that would make him a NFL Hall OF Famer. Has there been many guys at Iggys level even named Finals MVP? I'm happy he got it but I'm not even sure he really deserved it over Curry (26ppg-5rpg-6apg) ?

"I think being a significant player is what qualifies you for the Hall Of Fame not rings. Judging guys by rings for a team game where a guy is a passenger not a driver is crazy."

Significant is subjective. The overall goal for players and franchises is to win rings. Contributing to the team winning and as valuable as being "significant." many guys have to tone down personal achievements to help the team win titles. Overvalued personal stats in a team game is crazy if you're aren't the champion, imo.

"Iggy has not even been a great playoff player for GS. He averages 9ppg and shoots around 53% from the line in his 6 playoff seasons with GS. He has had some good moments but that is not a hall of fame career."

He was great enough that the GM thought he was worth $15M a year (when Nick Young couldn't even get a minimum contract). The GM must be looking further than those un-impressive stats you just listed. Something doesn't add up there.

" If not for Curry, Klay, Green, and Durant would you be mentioning Iggy as a Hall Of Famer?"

Potentially, he could've gone to Houston and pushed them to be heading to their 2nd title this season, possibly. Impossible to say. (The Warriors weren't champs before he got there.)


Larry Brown of the Cowboys was a superbowl MVP. By this way of thinking that would make him a NFL Hall OF Famer.

This is funny. First, this is a different sport with a different Hall of Fame so the criteria in which they put guys in is not truly comparable. 53 man teams vs 17. Secondly, Neil O'Donnell in most folks opinions gifted this two interceptions to Larry Brown. He did nothing of note the rest of his career.
Andre Igoudala's championship moments and personal accolades run laps around Larry Brown.

Has there been many guys at Iggys level even named Finals MVP? I'm happy he got it but I'm not even sure he really deserved it over Curry (26ppg-5rpg-6apg)

I've never taken the time to go thru and rank them all. I think it's debatable that he should've won it but it can't be taken away and at the least it could've gone either way so that speaks very well for his contribution.



Sent from my LG-H872 using RealGM mobile app
Rainwater
RealGM
Posts: 12,224
And1: 7,360
Joined: Apr 02, 2017

Re: Is Iggy a Hall of Famer 

Post#165 » by Rainwater » Sun May 19, 2019 6:44 pm

MrPerfect1 wrote:Iggy will make it because almost everyone seems to make it. The fact Vlade is in before Webber shows how absurd the HOF is.


The thing with the BASKETBALL hall of fame is that it's just not the NBA hall of fame. There are people in there for their college achievements, there are women there, international players, and even guys for their worldwide impacts Etc, Etc. Divac while a decent player, I would think, got in for his international play and his worldwide impact. Some people might kill me for this but this was a large reason why Yao got in. He was a good player but his international impact was large.

When I speak about Iggy I am only talking about his NBA impact.
User avatar
Galloisdaman
Analyst
Posts: 3,674
And1: 2,171
Joined: Mar 17, 2011

Re: Is Iggy a Hall of Famer 

Post#166 » by Galloisdaman » Sun May 19, 2019 6:44 pm

perimeter wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
Could you please explain to me how Iggy is going to get in? There are 100 guys that are just like him and haven't gotten in, how is he the exception???




There are not 100 guys in basketball history who have won 3 NBA Championships, an NBA Finals MVP and an Olympic Gold Medal. The list includes just 7 guys other than Iguodala.

Michael Jordan
Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Shaquille O'Neal
Kobe Bryant
Lebron James
Dwyane Wade


One of those things is not like the others. Can you figure out which one?

Its like your whole basis of Iggy in the HOF is a finals mvp voted by writers that he probably did not even deserve over Curry.

What about all his other playoff games?

What about all his regular season games?

Your HOF argument is basically coming down to around 10-15 games out of his 1200 games.
My eyes glaze over when reading alternative stat (not advanced stat) narratives that go many paragraphs long. If you can not make your point in 2 paragraphs it may not be a great point. :D
Rainwater
RealGM
Posts: 12,224
And1: 7,360
Joined: Apr 02, 2017

Re: Is Iggy a Hall of Famer 

Post#167 » by Rainwater » Sun May 19, 2019 6:49 pm

Galloisdaman wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
perimeter wrote:


There are not 100 guys in basketball history who have won 3 NBA Championships, an NBA Finals MVP and an Olympic Gold Medal. The list includes just 7 guys other than Iguodala.

Michael Jordan
Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Shaquille O'Neal
Kobe Bryant
Lebron James
Dwyane Wade


You guys are looking too much into the Olympic squad and 3 finals appearances where he was just a role player for the most part. Where other guys were all doing the heavy lifting and he had to just watch.

You guys are just net picking at this point. There is so much more that guys in to the hall of fame. Iggy is no were as dominant as those guys you have listed. All those guys were multiple time all stars, multiple time all NBA squads, some were multiple time season MVP winners, if they did not win the season MVP they were almost always considered in top 10 MVP voting, they were scoring champs, they were 2nd or 1st options on there respective teams NEVER ROLE PLAYERS, playoff beast. These are things that Iggy has never been and never will be.

There are real people in the gray like Webber, Tim Hardaway, Amar'e, Bilups, Big Ben. And Iggy is not even that.

So disgusted with this tread.


Simple scenario: If you can not even make a crazy reach case for any player being a Hall Of Famer without bringing up rings then does that player really even deserve consideration?


Exactly!!!!!!
Rainwater
RealGM
Posts: 12,224
And1: 7,360
Joined: Apr 02, 2017

Re: Is Iggy a Hall of Famer 

Post#168 » by Rainwater » Sun May 19, 2019 6:55 pm

DoItALL9 wrote:
Galloisdaman wrote:
DoItALL9 wrote:



I don't believe the Warriors would've won those championships if they were missing any of those players minus Shaun Livingston. They didn't only win once. They're possibly about to win their 4th which is very significant in the history of the game.

Tristan Thompson's (significant) contribution to 1 title is not truly comparable.

The 2004 Detroit Pistons did not have a superstar player. They won as unit. One ring doesn't earn them HoF status in my opinion however if they had won 4 in a row or 4 in 5 years as the Warriors look apt to do they would be. There's precedence for this with the 60s Celtics. Not every player made the Hall but key contributors did.

Also, it doesn't make sense to try to tell the history of the game which is what the Hall does and not include a Finals MVP. "You play to win the game" and he was deemed the most important player of the series that everyone set out at the start of the year to win.

"Rings do not equal hall of fame and lack of rings does not mean they are not a hall of famer."

Maybe not in your opinion but at a certain point they do seemingly in Springfield, MA if you're a key contributer.

"Key" is subjective though.



Sent from my LG-H872 using RealGM mobile app


I think being a significant player is what qualifies you for the Hall Of Fame not rings. Judging guys by rings for a team game where a guy is a passenger not a driver is crazy. Iggy has not even been a great playoff player for GS. He averages 9ppg and shoots around 53% from the line in his 6 playoff seasons with GS. He has had some good moments but that is not a hall of fame career. If not for Curry, Klay, Green, and Durant would you be mentioning Iggy as a Hall Of Famer? Other guys on a team should not make someone a hall of famer. You mentioned being a finals mvp. Larry Brown of the Cowboys was a superbowl MVP. By this way of thinking that would make him a NFL Hall OF Famer. Has there been many guys at Iggys level even named Finals MVP? I'm happy he got it but I'm not even sure he really deserved it over Curry (26ppg-5rpg-6apg) ?

"I think being a significant player is what qualifies you for the Hall Of Fame not rings. Judging guys by rings for a team game where a guy is a passenger not a driver is crazy."

Significant is subjective. The overall goal for players and franchises is to win rings. Contributing to the team winning and as valuable as being "significant." many guys have to tone down personal achievements to help the team win titles. Overvalued personal stats in a team game is crazy if you're aren't the champion, imo.

"Iggy has not even been a great playoff player for GS. He averages 9ppg and shoots around 53% from the line in his 6 playoff seasons with GS. He has had some good moments but that is not a hall of fame career."

He was great enough that the GM thought he was worth $15M a year (when Nick Young couldn't even get a minimum contract). The GM must be looking further than those un-impressive stats you just listed. Something doesn't add up there.

" If not for Curry, Klay, Green, and Durant would you be mentioning Iggy as a Hall Of Famer?"

Potentially, he could've gone to Houston and pushed them to be heading to their 2nd title this season, possibly. Impossible to say. (The Warriors weren't champs before he got there.)


Larry Brown of the Cowboys was a superbowl MVP. By this way of thinking that would make him a NFL Hall OF Famer.

This is funny. First, this is a different sport with a different Hall of Fame so the criteria in which they put guys in is not truly comparable. 53 man teams vs 17. Secondly, Neil O'Donnell in most folks opinions gifted this two interceptions to Larry Brown. He did nothing of note the rest of his career.
Andre Igoudala's championship moments and personal accolades run laps around Larry Brown.

Has there been many guys at Iggys level even named Finals MVP? I'm happy he got it but I'm not even sure he really deserved it over Curry (26ppg-5rpg-6apg)

I've never taken the time to go thru and rank them all. I think it's debatable that he should've won it but it can't be taken away and at the least it could've gone either way so that speaks very well for his contribution.



Sent from my LG-H872 using RealGM mobile app


I just can't deal, the guy was an ok player, key word is OK, prior to his time in Golden State. He wins a couple titles on the coat tails of Curry, Durant, Thompson, and Green and suddenly he is a hall famer, lol.
Sedale Threatt
RealGM
Posts: 51,133
And1: 45,622
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
Location: Clearing space in the trophy case.

Re: Is Iggy a Hall of Famer 

Post#169 » by Sedale Threatt » Sun May 19, 2019 7:01 pm

DoItALL9 wrote:Significant is subjective.


It really isn't. We have tons of good, solid measures to assess how good players are, and Iguodala comes up short on most of them. At no point was he ever a legitimately great player, which, with respect to the bad selections already in -- KC Jones, Calvin Murphy, etc etc -- should be the No. 1 consideration for the Hall of Fame. Awards and accolades and honors are obviously important too, and he comes up well short there as well with a single All-Star selection and a couple of All-D teams. The one thing going for him is that he was a role player on a historically great team, and that just isn't enough. Not even close. Frankly, I'm shocked this thread could get up to nine or 10 pages.
Rainwater
RealGM
Posts: 12,224
And1: 7,360
Joined: Apr 02, 2017

Re: Is Iggy a Hall of Famer 

Post#170 » by Rainwater » Sun May 19, 2019 7:03 pm

Galloisdaman wrote:
perimeter wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
Could you please explain to me how Iggy is going to get in? There are 100 guys that are just like him and haven't gotten in, how is he the exception???




There are not 100 guys in basketball history who have won 3 NBA Championships, an NBA Finals MVP and an Olympic Gold Medal. The list includes just 7 guys other than Iguodala.

Michael Jordan
Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Shaquille O'Neal
Kobe Bryant
Lebron James
Dwyane Wade


One of those things is not like the others. Can you figure out which one?

Its like your whole basis of Iggy in the HOF is a finals mvp voted by writers that he probably did not even deserve over Curry.

What about all his other playoff games?

What about all his regular season games?

Your HOF argument is basically coming down to around 10-15 games out of his 1200 games.


You hit it right on top of their head and I think this is where the problem lays, I think people are basically just basing Iggy's HOF possibilities on 10 to 15 games rather 1200 games because outside of that his basketball resume does not merit any consideration.
Sedale Threatt
RealGM
Posts: 51,133
And1: 45,622
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
Location: Clearing space in the trophy case.

Re: Is Iggy a Hall of Famer 

Post#171 » by Sedale Threatt » Sun May 19, 2019 7:04 pm

Rainwater wrote:
Galloisdaman wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
You guys are looking too much into the Olympic squad and 3 finals appearances where he was just a role player for the most part. Where other guys were all doing the heavy lifting and he had to just watch.

You guys are just net picking at this point. There is so much more that guys in to the hall of fame. Iggy is no were as dominant as those guys you have listed. All those guys were multiple time all stars, multiple time all NBA squads, some were multiple time season MVP winners, if they did not win the season MVP they were almost always considered in top 10 MVP voting, they were scoring champs, they were 2nd or 1st options on there respective teams NEVER ROLE PLAYERS, playoff beast. These are things that Iggy has never been and never will be.

There are real people in the gray like Webber, Tim Hardaway, Amar'e, Bilups, Big Ben. And Iggy is not even that.

So disgusted with this tread.


Simple scenario: If you can not even make a crazy reach case for any player being a Hall Of Famer without bringing up rings then does that player really even deserve consideration?


Exactly!!!!!!


Or my threshold: If you have to argue about whether a player is a Hall of Famer, they're not a Hall of Famer.
Rainwater
RealGM
Posts: 12,224
And1: 7,360
Joined: Apr 02, 2017

Re: Is Iggy a Hall of Famer 

Post#172 » by Rainwater » Sun May 19, 2019 7:05 pm

Sedale Threatt wrote:
DoItALL9 wrote:Significant is subjective.


It really isn't. We have tons of good, solid measures to assess how good players are, and Iguodala comes up short on most of them. At no point was he ever a legitimately great player, which, with respect to the bad selections already in -- KC Jones, Calvin Murphy, etc etc -- should be the No. 1 consideration for the Hall of Fame. Awards and accolades and honors are obviously important too, and he comes up well short there as well with a single All-Star selection and a couple of All-D teams. The one thing going for him is that he was a role player on a historically great team, and that just isn't enough. Not even close. Frankly, I'm shocked this thread could get up to nine or 10 pages.


For the love of God thank you, lol.
DoItALL9
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,935
And1: 1,345
Joined: Oct 08, 2016
       

Re: Is Iggy a Hall of Famer 

Post#173 » by DoItALL9 » Sun May 19, 2019 7:07 pm

Sedale Threatt wrote:
DoItALL9 wrote:Significant is subjective.


It really isn't. We have tons of good, solid measures to assess how good players are, and Iguodala comes up short on most of them. At no point was he ever a legitimately great player, which, with respect to the bad selections already in -- KC Jones, Calvin Murphy, etc etc -- should be the No. 1 consideration for the Hall of Fame. Awards and accolades and honors are obviously important too, and he comes up well short there as well with a single All-Star selection and a couple of All-D teams. The one thing going for him is that he was a role player on a historically great team, and that just isn't enough. Not even close. Frankly, I'm shocked this thread could get up to nine or 10 pages.


Sedale Threatt wrote:
DoItALL9 wrote:Significant is subjective.


It really isn't. We have tons of good, solid measures to assess how good players are, and Iguodala comes up short on most of them. At no point was he ever a legitimately great player, which, with respect to the bad selections already in -- KC Jones, Calvin Murphy, etc etc -- should be the No. 1 consideration for the Hall of Fame. Awards and accolades and honors are obviously important too, and he comes up well short there as well with a single All-Star selection and a couple of All-D teams. The one thing going for him is that he was a role player on a historically great team, and that just isn't enough. Not even close. Frankly, I'm shocked this thread could get up to nine or 10 pages.


Are you also a supporter of taking out Calvin Murphy and KC Jones?
If there's a precedent for a similar contributing player getting in why shouldn't he?
Why don't you place high value on his all defensive teams?


What exactly are your personal criteria that he's falling short of meeting?

Sent from my LG-H872 using RealGM mobile app
Triples333
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,786
And1: 3,672
Joined: Sep 05, 2016

Re: Is Iggy a Hall of Famer 

Post#174 » by Triples333 » Sun May 19, 2019 7:11 pm

The BBREF page for HOF probability gives lowball percentages for a lot of players as it does not include international play. I'm also guessing that if it does value Finals MVP at all, it's not weighted heavily enough. He has some very nice caps on his resume. The Finals MVP being the most notable. But the All Star team, the ALL D 1st Team, and more important his 2 Gold Medals (FIBA and Olympics). Now it's all about how many rings he can acquire as a key kog in a dynasty. If they were to win this year and he does a notably good job slowing down Giannis (EG his play on Lebron in the 2015 Finals), then he will likely get in the Hall Of Fame (or at the least make it a very close debate). If they lose and he plays poor and/or they don't win again, it will be a tougher sell. If I had to bet? I'd say no.
dc
General Manager
Posts: 7,817
And1: 9,102
Joined: Aug 11, 2001

Re: Is Iggy a Hall of Famer 

Post#175 » by dc » Sun May 19, 2019 7:12 pm

MrPerfect1 wrote:Iggy will make it because almost everyone seems to make it. The fact Vlade is in before Webber shows how absurd the HOF is.


Mentioned this before, but Webber’s transgressions during college at UM, what with getting “banned” by the NCAA after the fact and pleading guilty to contempt, etc...are likely what has kept him out of the HOF.

It sounds bad to say this, but it’s a “good thing” for Webber that the booster who was paying him all those years died of a heart attack right before he was going to testify. He was likely going to dole out even grittier details in the scandal that would’ve landed CWebb in even more hot water.
Brian Geltzeiler: You see Mark Jackson getting a head coaching job as early as next year?

Adrian Wojnarowski: Not if people make calls on him. Not if an organization is doing their homework and knows all the things he brings with him.
Sedale Threatt
RealGM
Posts: 51,133
And1: 45,622
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
Location: Clearing space in the trophy case.

Re: Is Iggy a Hall of Famer 

Post#176 » by Sedale Threatt » Sun May 19, 2019 7:16 pm

DoItALL9 wrote:
Sedale Threatt wrote:
DoItALL9 wrote:Significant is subjective.


It really isn't. We have tons of good, solid measures to assess how good players are, and Iguodala comes up short on most of them. At no point was he ever a legitimately great player, which, with respect to the bad selections already in -- KC Jones, Calvin Murphy, etc etc -- should be the No. 1 consideration for the Hall of Fame. Awards and accolades and honors are obviously important too, and he comes up well short there as well with a single All-Star selection and a couple of All-D teams. The one thing going for him is that he was a role player on a historically great team, and that just isn't enough. Not even close. Frankly, I'm shocked this thread could get up to nine or 10 pages.


Sedale Threatt wrote:
DoItALL9 wrote:Significant is subjective.


It really isn't. We have tons of good, solid measures to assess how good players are, and Iguodala comes up short on most of them. At no point was he ever a legitimately great player, which, with respect to the bad selections already in -- KC Jones, Calvin Murphy, etc etc -- should be the No. 1 consideration for the Hall of Fame. Awards and accolades and honors are obviously important too, and he comes up well short there as well with a single All-Star selection and a couple of All-D teams. The one thing going for him is that he was a role player on a historically great team, and that just isn't enough. Not even close. Frankly, I'm shocked this thread could get up to nine or 10 pages.


Are you also a supporter of taking out Calvin Murphy and KC Jones?
If there's a precedent for a similar contributing player getting in why shouldn't he?
Why don't you place high value on his all defensive teams?


What exactly are your personal criteria that he's falling short of meeting?

Sent from my LG-H872 using RealGM mobile app


1. If I could? Absolutely. Neither of them are even close to deserving.

2. Why continue making the same mistake over and over again by selecting undeserving players?

3. I don't. But if that's going to be one of the biggest feathers in your cap, you better make more than two.

4. His career stats speak for themselves. He was never close to being a great player, which should be the ultimate consideration for an honor like the Hall of Fame. Simply put, were you great? He had a solid five or six-year peak where he was a top 30ish player, and he's been role player material since. Basically, all he's got going for him is that he's had some amazing teammates over the past handful of years. If he was finishing up his career missing the playoffs with, say, the Knicks, this wouldn't even be a consideration. In contrast to, say, DeMarcus Cousins, who is clearly one of the best players of his generation but might have trouble getting in because he hasn't won sh*t. There's something extremely wrong with that calculus.
Rainwater
RealGM
Posts: 12,224
And1: 7,360
Joined: Apr 02, 2017

Re: Is Iggy a Hall of Famer 

Post#177 » by Rainwater » Sun May 19, 2019 7:39 pm

Triples333 wrote:The BBREF page for HOF probability gives lowball percentages for a lot of players as it does not include international play. I'm also guessing that if it does value Finals MVP at all, it's not weighted heavily enough. He has some very nice caps on his resume. The Finals MVP being the most notable. But the All Star team, the ALL D 1st Team, and more important his 2 Gold Medals (FIBA and Olympics). Now it's all about how many rings he can acquire as a key kog in a dynasty. If they were to win this year and he does a notably good job slowing down Giannis (EG his play on Lebron in the 2015 Finals), then he will likely get in the Hall Of Fame (or at the least make it a very close debate). If they lose and he plays poor and/or they don't win again, it will be a tougher sell. If I had to bet? I'd say no.


OMG, American international team should not count. As an American, If you make that team you will likely medal, Americans win almost every single year. (The one time they did not win some of the best players we're not even playing at the time. Kobe, Shaq, and T-Mac etc etc). Just as in GS, Iggy was tail coating on those US teams as well. And one all star, one defensive star, and one finals MVP trophy in 5 games on ok stats is not enough.
Rainwater
RealGM
Posts: 12,224
And1: 7,360
Joined: Apr 02, 2017

Re: Is Iggy a Hall of Famer 

Post#178 » by Rainwater » Sun May 19, 2019 7:47 pm

Sedale Threatt wrote:
DoItALL9 wrote:
Sedale Threatt wrote:
It really isn't. We have tons of good, solid measures to assess how good players are, and Iguodala comes up short on most of them. At no point was he ever a legitimately great player, which, with respect to the bad selections already in -- KC Jones, Calvin Murphy, etc etc -- should be the No. 1 consideration for the Hall of Fame. Awards and accolades and honors are obviously important too, and he comes up well short there as well with a single All-Star selection and a couple of All-D teams. The one thing going for him is that he was a role player on a historically great team, and that just isn't enough. Not even close. Frankly, I'm shocked this thread could get up to nine or 10 pages.


Sedale Threatt wrote:
It really isn't. We have tons of good, solid measures to assess how good players are, and Iguodala comes up short on most of them. At no point was he ever a legitimately great player, which, with respect to the bad selections already in -- KC Jones, Calvin Murphy, etc etc -- should be the No. 1 consideration for the Hall of Fame. Awards and accolades and honors are obviously important too, and he comes up well short there as well with a single All-Star selection and a couple of All-D teams. The one thing going for him is that he was a role player on a historically great team, and that just isn't enough. Not even close. Frankly, I'm shocked this thread could get up to nine or 10 pages.


Are you also a supporter of taking out Calvin Murphy and KC Jones?
If there's a precedent for a similar contributing player getting in why shouldn't he?
Why don't you place high value on his all defensive teams?


What exactly are your personal criteria that he's falling short of meeting?

Sent from my LG-H872 using RealGM mobile app


1. If I could? Absolutely. Neither of them are even close to deserving.

2. Why continue making the same mistake over and over again by selecting undeserving players?

3. I don't. But if that's going to be one of the biggest feathers in your cap, you better make more than two.

4. His career stats speak for themselves. He was never close to being a great player, which should be the ultimate consideration for an honor like the Hall of Fame. Simply put, were you great? He had a solid five or six-year peak where he was a top 30ish player, and he's been role player material since. Basically, all he's got going for him is that he's had some amazing teammates over the past handful of years. If he was finishing up his career missing the playoffs with, say, the Knicks, this wouldn't even be a consideration. In contrast to, say, DeMarcus Cousins, who is clearly one of the best players of his generation but might have trouble getting in because he hasn't won sh*t. There's something extremely wrong with that calculus.


This is what kills me, there are so many guys that were just amazing but will be belittled for not winning a title and will have a hard time getting in the hall of fame because of that fact. Melo, Webber, and Dwight are good examples as well.
Triples333
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,786
And1: 3,672
Joined: Sep 05, 2016

Re: Is Iggy a Hall of Famer 

Post#179 » by Triples333 » Sun May 19, 2019 7:47 pm

Rainwater wrote:
Triples333 wrote:The BBREF page for HOF probability gives lowball percentages for a lot of players as it does not include international play. I'm also guessing that if it does value Finals MVP at all, it's not weighted heavily enough. He has some very nice caps on his resume. The Finals MVP being the most notable. But the All Star team, the ALL D 1st Team, and more important his 2 Gold Medals (FIBA and Olympics). Now it's all about how many rings he can acquire as a key kog in a dynasty. If they were to win this year and he does a notably good job slowing down Giannis (EG his play on Lebron in the 2015 Finals), then he will likely get in the Hall Of Fame (or at the least make it a very close debate). If they lose and he plays poor and/or they don't win again, it will be a tougher sell. If I had to bet? I'd say no.


OMG, American international team should not count. As an American, If you make that team you will likely medal, Americans win almost every single year. (The one time they did not win some of the best players we're not even playing at the time. Kobe, Shaq, and T-Mac etc etc). Just as in GS, Iggy was tail coating on those US teams as well. And one all star, one defensive star, and one finals MVP trophy in 5 games on ok stats is not enough.

I mean, I don't personally think it matters much, but the HOF committee has shown us that it matters. Having multiple Golds won't go overlooked when they're looking at his 3-5 rings, his Finals MVP, etc. I'd leave him off if I had a vote, but he's going to be considered.
Rainwater
RealGM
Posts: 12,224
And1: 7,360
Joined: Apr 02, 2017

Re: Is Iggy a Hall of Famer 

Post#180 » by Rainwater » Sun May 19, 2019 7:57 pm

Triples333 wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
Triples333 wrote:The BBREF page for HOF probability gives lowball percentages for a lot of players as it does not include international play. I'm also guessing that if it does value Finals MVP at all, it's not weighted heavily enough. He has some very nice caps on his resume. The Finals MVP being the most notable. But the All Star team, the ALL D 1st Team, and more important his 2 Gold Medals (FIBA and Olympics). Now it's all about how many rings he can acquire as a key kog in a dynasty. If they were to win this year and he does a notably good job slowing down Giannis (EG his play on Lebron in the 2015 Finals), then he will likely get in the Hall Of Fame (or at the least make it a very close debate). If they lose and he plays poor and/or they don't win again, it will be a tougher sell. If I had to bet? I'd say no.


OMG, American international team should not count. As an American, If you make that team you will likely medal, Americans win almost every single year. (The one time they did not win some of the best players we're not even playing at the time. Kobe, Shaq, and T-Mac etc etc). Just as in GS, Iggy was tail coating on those US teams as well. And one all star, one defensive star, and one finals MVP trophy in 5 games on ok stats is not enough.

I mean, I don't personally think it matters much, but the HOF committee has shown us that it matters. Having multiple Golds won't go overlooked when they're looking at his 3-5 rings, his Finals MVP, etc. I'd leave him off if I had a vote, but he's going to be considered.


The thing is that I doubt he gets considered, a lot of this is just wishful thinking. By your logic a Guy like Mike Miller should be considered for the hall of Fame due to his role on fiba basketball and his two titles.

Return to The General Board