So why hasn't Kawhi gotten any flack for colluding?

[Dennis 37]

You have a different lens. Raptor fans are well aware of what it means to tank one's trade value. San Antonio got quality return on Kawhi. Equal value? Probably not, but quality return? Definitely. Demar Derozan isn't cents on the dollar. He's at least 75 cents, and Jakob will be a very solid player for a decade. Danny Green isn't going to be solid for ten more years. The value of the pick you got an probably can not yet be evaluated, but its still a pick. Vince Carter "Netted" the Raptors about 10 cents. There has never been a player who lowered their trade value more than Vince Carter. One could argue that Kawhi was hurt as I highly doubt that he sat 17 games to cover for a faked rehabilitation. No one claimed VC was hurt, they just thought he might be done.

Having said that, Carter never arranged for another Tier 1 star to demand a trade to join him on the Nets. That's the behavior the league could have control over if they so choose.

At referring to it as a "quality return", thinking DeRozan is "at least 75 cents", that Scumbag didn't exaggerate his injury and ultimately quit or that Carter did more to intentionally hurt his trade value.

Had Scumbag operated with a degree of professionalism, what constituted a "quality return" would have been at least what the Pelicans received for Davis.

Who "thought Carter might be done"? He was 27 and didn't suffer any injury, let alone a significant one.

Let's not oversell DD here. It's 50 cents at best. With Poeltl it's still way better return than we got for Carter. Like, not comparable or even in the same realm. The Nets got a prime star for a player with a health issue who wouldn't play for them, two scrubs, and a middling pick. And VC is worse than Kawhi.

Like you said, Carter was never as good as Scumbag. In addition, DeRozan is not a legit star and the basketball world quickly found out what the Spurs and their fans long knew, which was that Scumbag's health issue was overblown and really just an excuse to get to L.A. so that his profile could be commensurate with his caliber of play.

None of the players Toronto received for Carter could do anything near to what DeRozan does. They were barely qualified to be bench players. When one says cents on the dollar, one is referring to pennies. Even XxIronChainzxX suggested it was closer to 50 cents. 50 cents is a far cry from pennies. Add Jakob and Spurs got a lot more than what is usually tendered for a player who will eventually leave as a free agent anyway.

Who "thought Carter might be done"? He was 27 and didn't suffer any injury, let alone a significant one.

Toronto fans certainly thought that was a possibility. Look at the 14th comment in this thread. https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/8wowsz/why_were_vince_carters_stats_in_the_200405_season/

He tanked his game so hard that his ability to play at a high level going forward was questioned by many. The value of the players received in the trade reflect that.

[21 TD]

None of the players Toronto received for Carter could do anything near to what DeRozan does. They were barely qualified to be bench players. When one says cents on the dollar, one is referring to pennies. Even XxIronChainzxX suggested it was closer to 50 cents. 50 cents is a far cry from pennies. Add Jakob and Spurs got a lot more than what is usually tendered for a player who will eventually leave as a free agent anyway.

Toronto fans certainly thought that was a possibility. Look at the 14th comment in this thread. https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/8wowsz/why_were_vince_carters_stats_in_the_200405_season/

He tanked his game so hard that his ability to play at a high level going forward was questioned by many. The value of the players received in the trade reflect that.

That's nice. Carter was never as good as Scumbag and I'd have rather they kept the latter last season and had a good shot at a championship and lose him for nothing after the season than accept the garbage they received and go down in infamy. The only thing DeRozan is good for, is turning the Spurs into a treadmill team and stunting the growth of Murray, White and Walker.

Who cares what some fan on a message board thought? He wasn't injured nor thought to be. I'm not absolving Carter or saying he didn't screw the Raptors, I'm just saying he didn't do it to nearly the same extent.

[Dennis 37]

None of the players Toronto received for Carter could do anything near to what DeRozan does. They were barely qualified to be bench players. When one says cents on the dollar, one is referring to pennies. Even XxIronChainzxX suggested it was closer to 50 cents. 50 cents is a far cry from pennies. Add Jakob and Spurs got a lot more than what is usually tendered for a player who will eventually leave as a free agent anyway.

Toronto fans certainly thought that was a possibility. Look at the 14th comment in this thread. https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/8wowsz/why_were_vince_carters_stats_in_the_200405_season/

He tanked his game so hard that his ability to play at a high level going forward was questioned by many. The value of the players received in the trade reflect that.

That's nice. Carter was never as good as Scumbag and I'd have rather they kept the latter last season and had a good shot at a championship and lose him for nothing after the season than accept the garbage they received and go down in infamy. The only thing DeRozan is good for, is turning the Spurs into a treadmill team and stunting the growth of Murray, White and Walker.

Who cares what some fan on a message board thought? He wasn't injured nor thought to be. I'm not absolving Carter or saying he didn't screw the Raptors, I'm just saying he didn't do it to nearly the same extent.

Considering it was 2004 and not much of opinion of that time is left on the internet, it is hard to prove a feeling that people thought Carter was done. You doubted anyone thought that way, I found a source that confirms people did. It matters not who the source is.

See, you're spoiled. From 1999 to 2016 the Spurs didn't have a season under 50 wins. That's 50 wins in the West. Under your coach and management you have no idea what garbage is. Raptors went from 95 to 2015 without a 50 win season, and that's in the East. We know what garbage is and there are vast quantities of players in, and now out, of the league who were significantly worse than DeRozan. DeRozan is ranked the 31st best player in the league according to Sports Illustrated. Is that a superstar? No it isn't. Is that garbage? No it isn't.

"I'd have rather they kept the latter last season and had a good shot at a championship"

Reminds me of when Raptor fans said, "Oh, I wish McGrady would have stayed. He and Carter would assured us a trip to the finals."
or, "Oh, I wish Bosh would have stayed. He and DeRozan would have had a long successful run."

If Kawhi was an Atlanta Hawk, or a Minnesota Timberwolf, and you a fan of those teams, I would have some sympathy for you, but you seem to think nothing bad should ever happen to your franchise. When numerous other teams haven't sniffed even and smidgen of the success the Spurs have, and have been on the lesser end of player moves multiple times, the fans of those teams just say, "Welcome to the club."

[NPZ]

See, you're spoiled. From 1999 to 2016 the Spurs didn't have a season under 50 wins. That's 50 wins in the West. Under your coach and management you have no idea what garbage is. Raptors went from 95 to 2015 without a 50 win season, and that's in the East. We know what garbage is and there are vast quantities of players in, and now out, of the league who were significantly worse than DeRozan.

Haha. Yeah and they even got DeRozan for Kawhi. Spurs even had more things go for them right in that span than LA, same 5 titles or not. SA will probably chug out upwards of 50 or more wins for at least a few more years. You don't reach the legit bounds of treadmill territory until you're under 45.

[21 TD]

Considering it was 2004 and not much of opinion of that time is left on the internet, it is hard to prove a feeling that people thought Carter was done. You doubted anyone thought that way, I found a source that confirms people did. It matters not who the source is.

See, you're spoiled. From 1999 to 2016 the Spurs didn't have a season under 50 wins. That's 50 wins in the West. Under your coach and management you have no idea what garbage is. Raptors went from 95 to 2015 without a 50 win season, and that's in the East. We know what garbage is and there are vast quantities of players in, and now out, of the league who were significantly worse than DeRozan. DeRozan is ranked the 31st best player in the league according to Sports Illustrated. Is that a superstar? No it isn't. Is that garbage? No it isn't.

"I'd have rather they kept the latter last season and had a good shot at a championship"

Reminds me of when Raptor fans said, "Oh, I wish McGrady would have stayed. He and Carter would assured us a trip to the finals."
or, "Oh, I wish Bosh would have stayed. He and DeRozan would have had a long successful run."

If Kawhi was an Atlanta Hawk, or a Minnesota Timberwolf, and you a fan of those teams, I would have some sympathy for you, but you seem to think nothing bad should ever happen to your franchise. When numerous other teams haven't sniffed even and smidgen of the success the Spurs have, and have been on the lesser end of player moves multiple times, the fans of those teams just say, "Welcome to the club."

I meant people in and around the league, not fans online. The former are what matters in this case because those are the people making decisions.

Nah, had the run ended organically, fine. Had it even ended because he wanted to go home but handled it like a pro and allowed them to maximize return, fair enough. But the way it ended is unprecedented and the franchise/fan base were screwed.

You have no idea what garbage is. The Raptors have been in existence for 24 years, have almost always had a legit star and just won a (contrived) championship. There's plenty of franchises that have had it far worse than them, they just don't incessantly cry and whine and pretend everyone is against them.

The difference is, the Spurs had a championship caliber team and the Warriors were due for the mileage to catch up to them and injury to strike, both of which happened.

Again, this trade is unprecedented. The supposed best player in the league (funny how his profile changed the minute he went elsewhere) going for cents on the dollar.

Haha. Yeah and they even got DeRozan for Kawhi. Spurs even had more things go for them right in that span than LA, same 5 titles or not. SA will probably chug out upwards of 50 or more wins for at least a few more years. You don't reach the legit bounds of treadmill territory until you're under 45.

Wrong. The Spurs have had a lot of bad luck that get's overlooked because of their success. So many bad breaks injury/call wise that cost them should or could have been championships. I don't remember that happening to the Lakers.

That's the thing, 48, 50, whatever number they might win, is irrelevant. They have the lowest playoff upside of any likely West playoff team, which means more low 20s picks and likely at best, 2nd tier prospects. This is the definition of a treadmill team.

[jason bourne]

I think us Kawhi hates are waiting for him to be punished. Silver won't do it, so it will have to be karma and NBA fans going against him if the Clippers start winning. We haven't started the season yet, but it's not like his collusion with Paul George has been forgotten. What if the Clippers lose their first twenty games? It's doubtful, but nothing to get worked about right now.

[snaquille oatmeal]

this may be a bit off topic but didn't want to open a new thread

Read on Twitter

[will]

Can't really prove there was collusion.