Is healthy Zion a better talent than healthy Embiid?

Post #161 » by **NO-KG-AI** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:05 am

Zion through 40 games has the highest field goal percentage of all time and the most 30 point games since Michael Jordan over the first 40.

Disappointing start.

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GSP · Post #162 » by **GSP** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:16 am

NO-KG-AI wrote:Zion through 40 games has the highest field goal percentage of all time and the most 30 point games since Michael Jordan over the first 40.

Disappointing start.

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I don't think anyone is questioning Zion's offense or efficiency.......

bamheat · Post #163 » by **bamheat** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:27 am

Zion is one of the worst defenders of all-time right now. I have no doubt he will get better but Embiid is in his own league right now.

Dupp · Post #164 » by **Dupp** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:42 am

Onlytimewilltel wrote:
Gooner wrote:
Dupp wrote:Give me embiid as size and elite defense over any offensive potential difference in Zion’s favour.

Zion's defensive potential is elite without a doubt.

What do you base that on? He’s shorter than most of his competition and his wingspan is smaller than most of his competition. I keep hearing this from a lot of different people and don’t really understand it.

I mean he’s got an awesome vertical so he blocked the crap out of weak college competition but that’s not really transferring nicely to the league.

He’s not in the same stratosphere as Embiid as defender even “potentially”.

That was a vintage goober post. He doesn’t much understand basketball.

GSP · Post #165 » by **GSP** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:04 am

Read on Twitter

his defensive footwork is as bad as it gets. So out of position and always crossing his feet. Hes gonna be a part of some embarrassing crossovers and blowbys this season. And this isnt even plays exposing his porous pick and roll defense which has prolly supplanted Enes Kanter as worst in the league

bamheat · Post #166 » by **bamheat** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:29 am

GSP wrote:

Read on Twitter

his defensive footwork is as bad as it gets. So out of position and always crossing his feet. Hes gonna be a part of some embarrassing crossovers and blowbys this season. And this isnt even plays exposing his porous pick and roll defense which has prolly supplanted Enes Kanter as worst in the league

He's basically a heavy version of Kanter.

trickshot · Post #167 » by **trickshot** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:39 am

Dupp wrote:
Onlytimewilltel wrote:
Gooner wrote:
Zion's defensive potential is elite without a doubt.

What do you base that on? He’s shorter than most of his competition and his wingspan is smaller than most of his competition. I keep hearing this from a lot of different people and don’t really understand it.

I mean he’s got an awesome vertical so he blocked the crap out of weak college competition but that’s not really transferring nicely to the league.

He’s not in the same stratosphere as Embiid as defender even “potentially”.

That was a vintage goober post. He doesn’t much understand basketball.

but dem highlight blocks be DPOY stuff. Tbf he made the post last Feb before people really knew just how awful zion was on D

DCasey91 · Post #168 » by **DCasey91** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:35 am

stormi wrote:Zion is great, but since Embiid first stepped on the court as an injury riddled kid out of Kansas, nobody has consistently and as drastically tilted the floor like him besides Prime Steph Curry and Lebron James. Not Durant, AD, Harden, Jokic, Luka.

His on/off impact is starting to mirror aged 24 to 30 year old Tim Duncan. And the best 3 level scorer he's ever played with was Jimmy Butler for 6 months. Generational talent.

I’m a 76ers fan and I would trade Simmons for out of prime Chris Paul right now.

People don’t realize he’s never played with an actual Point Guard, and played with Butler for half a season.

Look at any Historic Big (C/PF/SF) that’s won/won more than once or in between Conference final levels on multiple occasions. It doesn’t take much at all.

Gasol/Conley WCF
Heck Horford in Atlanta ECF

It’s very rare (Garnet at the wolves) when an An Absolute monster of a big man doesn’t run through a playoffs. (Still made the WCF but ran into an even bigger monster in the Lakers.)

Heck Nowitzki/Hakeem solo jobbed it as the lone superstar.

It’s the Barkley fiasco all over again. Barkley’s right when Shaq brings up the rings thing. Give him Kobe and the team and he’d get rings too. He’s not wrong at all.

Forget small ball. Did u see the Lakers finals lineup?

Heck GSW had:

Thompson
Green
Iguodala
Durant

That’s Goat LVL perimeter defence. Insane length/Insane switch ability too. Goat offensive power to boot with Curry.

bballaddict1999 · Post #169 » by **bballaddict1999** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:10 pm

JRoy wrote:I will make a bet right now that Zion misses more career games than Embiid even including Embiids first 2 seasons.

Let's bet, if you lose you need to reply to this comment the day Zion retires and tell me how much of a god I am?

Spanish_Laker · Post #170 » by **Spanish_Laker** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:30 pm

Imagine thinking an overweight NBA player whose only major skill is overpowering defenders at the rim is better than an actual all-NBA center who can do everything on the floor.

JN61 · Post #171 » by **JN61** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:23 pm

I go with proven player. I also think Embiid has greater potential since he is not an undersized player.

JN61 · Post #172 » by **JN61** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:27 pm

donnieme wrote:
Dupp wrote:
Onlytimewilltel wrote:
What do you base that on? He’s shorter than most of his competition and his wingspan is smaller than most of his competition. I keep hearing this from a lot of different people and don’t really understand it.

I mean he’s got an awesome vertical so he blocked the crap out of weak college competition but that’s not really transferring nicely to the league.

He’s not in the same stratosphere as Embiid as defender even “potentially”.

That was a vintage goober post. He doesn’t much understand basketball.

but dem highlight blocks be DPOY stuff. Tbf he made the post last Feb before people really knew just how awful zion was on D

Uhm. Even when he was in college several of us pointed out bad movement on defence and going easily for blocks. We were of course shouted down at time but many still didn't like the narrative of basing defense valuation on few YouTube highlights.

limbo · Post #173 » by **limbo** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:43 pm

What is this thread, lol?

Zion isn't even close to Embiid as an offensive player... Defensively, the gap is astronomical...

I don't think Embiid's current pace is sustainable (that would put his season in GOAT level territory), but in current shape/form, he's easily a Top 10 player in the league.

Zion is not even Top 10 at his position...

Smirk · Post #174 » by **Smirk** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 3:07 pm

bamheat wrote:Zion is one of the worst defenders of all-time right now. I have no doubt he will get better but Embiid is in his own league right now.

You want me to list all of the all time greats that had a worse opponent efg% at the same point? There are many. One of them rhymes with Clebron Tames.

This board is completely absurd when it comes to Zion.

Smirk · Post #175 » by **Smirk** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 3:11 pm

limbo wrote:What is this thread, lol?

Zion isn't even close to Embiid as an offensive player...

Embiid didn’t even play his first two years in the league. If you take Embiid’s first 40 games and Zion’s, Zion’s is significantly better with comparable rebound and assist numbers.

So...huh?

Funcrusher · Post #176 » by **Funcrusher** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 3:13 pm

limbo wrote:What is this thread, lol?

Zion isn't even close to Embiid as an offensive player... Defensively, the gap is astronomical...

I don't think Embiid's current pace is sustainable (that would put his season in GOAT level territory), but in current shape/form, he's easily a Top 10 player in the league.

Zion is not even Top 10 at his position...

Must've missed the part where the tittle said "BETTER TALENT." Reading comprehension, very hard

Smirk · Post #177 » by **Smirk** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 3:22 pm

Spanish_Laker wrote:Imagine thinking an overweight NBA player whose only major skill is overpowering defenders at the rim is better than an actual all-NBA center who can do everything on the floor.

Never watched him play.

HotelVitale · Post #178 » by **HotelVitale** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 3:46 pm

Smirk wrote:
limbo wrote:What is this thread, lol? Zion isn't even close to Embiid as an offensive player...

Embiid didn’t even play his first two years in the league. If you take Embiid’s first 40 games and Zion’s, Zion’s is significantly better with comparable rebound and assist numbers. So...huh?

Embiid rebounded significantly more per minute and by his second season he was not far from doubling Zion's 2nd year rebounding #s. Also had literally double the steals+blocks each of those years. Zion has played more minutes so the differences don't seem that huge in raw stats but they're there and still pretty clear. Don't need to paper over them to value your guy.

limbo · Post #179 » by **limbo** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 3:49 pm

Smirk wrote:
limbo wrote:What is this thread, lol?

Zion isn't even close to Embiid as an offensive player...

Embiid didn’t even play his first two years in the league. If you take Embiid’s first 40 games and Zion’s, Zion’s is significantly better with comparable rebound and assist numbers.

So...huh?

No he isn't...

Embiid was an elite defensive player from the moment he stepped on the court, and once he got healthy with some semblance of talent around him, and he finally played at least 60 RS games, he finished 4th in RAPM in his sophmore year in 2018...

You're trying to fit the sample to your narrative. That's why you're adding all these qualifiers like ''Embiid missed his first two years'', ''if you look at 30 games of sample size, Zion is better...''

Zion simply doesn't have Embiid's impact on the scoring margin because he's an astronomically worse defender... Even offensively, the only thing he really does better than Embiid is finish around the rim. And this is alarming because Embiid is far from a great passer or shooter, yet he offers valuable spacing at the Center position and is a better overall creator because of his ability to play in the post or outside and attack the rim and draw FT's...

But anyway, you have moved the discussion from healthy Zion vs. healthy Embiid currently into first 40 games of each player's career for some reason...

Embiid this season so far has been a much improved finisher and shooter and is currently averaging a career high 42.3 points per 100 on 67%TS, which destroys Tubby's offensive value easily... Then you add elite defense on top and it's not even close.

Current shape/form Embiid is an MVP level player working on a GOAT level season...

Current shape/form Zion is not even better than the 2018 version of Embiid...

JRoy · Post #180 » by **JRoy** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 3:53 pm

bballaddict1999 wrote:
JRoy wrote:I will make a bet right now that Zion misses more career games than Embiid even including Embiids first 2 seasons.

Let's bet, if you lose you need to reply to this comment the day Zion retires and tell me how much of a god I am?

I hope you’re right but I doubt it