Is there a reasonable argument that MJ was actually better at basketball than LeBron?

[Def Leppard]

Why the need for this everyday? Sorry to be a debbie downer

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[dakomish23]

Scored a lot of points (on worse efficiency even adjusted for era) on impossibly stacked teams against Kurt Rambis and John Stockton with the greatest coach ever while sticking his tongue out and being "feared"

Yeah, that little white guy was a scrub...



(btw, don't see your friend Lebron in those stats...)

The blasphemy against Stockton never ends. Ppl have no clue how unbelievably skilled this man was. If MJ doesn’t come back, he might have 2 titles to add to that stacked resume

[LAKESHOW]

Kenny said his rockets had beaten the bulls. They were a problem for the bulls, because they couldn't matchup with Olajuwon. And they would've defeated them if MJ was present for those tween years.

[Jonny Blaze]

Do people think Jordan beats the GSW Durant team? Or that Lebron wouldn't of dominated with Scottie by his side vs really no one who could match his speed/size in the 90s?

The wing defenders Lebron has played against are better than just about anything Jordan faced... Kawhi\Draymond\Iguodala\Durant vs Byron Russel or 6ft Gary Payton?

That said I still probably pick Jordan > Lebron at the end of the day... but it's close. Jordan has the better resume in terms of Finals wins but the longevity and peak of Lebron is insane.

I would take the 1996 Bulls over any team in NBA history.

The Warriors have been beaten in the Finals and taken to 7 games multiple times.

No one ever beat the Bulls.

[kazyv]

Arguments for LeBron:

Highest box and non-box statistical peak in a much, much more internationally competitive and sophisticated era against superior athletes and teams who actually mathematically understand how to play basketball

Far superior versatility and longevity


"Arguments" for MJ:

Romanticized sociopathy

Scored a lot of points (on worse efficiency even adjusted for era) on impossibly stacked teams against Kurt Rambis and John Stockton with the greatest coach ever while sticking his tongue out and being "feared"


I have no doubt whatsoever that Kawhi could have three-peated twice in MJ's situation.

as it happens, scoring points is what basketball is about. for the longest time of lebrons career, the gameplan was pretty much the same as with giannis currently. make him a jump shooter and he might very well lose. if this is your star player who is supposed to close the games for you, you're in trouble. as demonstrated by the bucks.

so yes, mj is a better basketball player because he can't get shut down as easily.

[twyzted]

not sure why people put value on these titles like they do. If he plays great basketball, then that helps his case. If he doesn't, then it doesn't help it. Right now he's playing great and yeah he might win this summer league tourney, but win or lose what he's doing should be judged by how he individual plays, not the results of his team as a whole.

This is how the greatest in sports are measured by how much they won, Messi and CR7 they won a bunch, pele also, Russell, Jabbar, Magic, Bird, Brady also won a bunch.
Its like that in all sports the guys who win the most=greatest.
That is what fans want TITLES not 2nd places.
But you want change how people view the greatest because it fits your narative to prop Lebron up

Given I don't care for lebron, I'm clearly not trying to change the criteria. I'm just going against stupid criteria used by simple casual fans.

Simple casual fans so analysts who get paid for it are simple casual fans?

[dakomish23]

Every team Jordan beat in the Finals was better than 2011 Mavericks. Like literally, there are six teams who would have been NBA champs right now if they had just existed in the 2010-2011 season.

Nice troll thread though.

Indubitably my dude. Great post totally unbiased and pure facts. You love to see it

Maybe playing against MJ brought the down the postseason net efficiency for the teams he beat in the finals?

We need to compare the opponents finals efficiency against Lebron led teams vs Jordan led teams and also vs what the opponents efficiency was leading up to the finals.

[dakomish23]

Kenny said his rockets had beaten the bulls. They were a problem for the bulls, because they couldn't matchup with Olajuwon. And they would've defeated them if MJ was present for those tween years.

This play robbed us of seeing MJ play Hakeem

Watch on YouTube

[JoeyLightYears]

Kenny said his rockets had beaten the bulls. They were a problem for the bulls, because they couldn't matchup with Olajuwon. And they would've defeated them if MJ was present for those tween years.

This play robbed us of seeing MJ play Hakeem

Watch on YouTube

It's incredible that he can hit a shot like that when you can barely even make out the basket due to the tough pixelation of the era.

[stormi]

Jordan has zero iconic finals wins. Jordan ducked all of the greats from his era. Got spanked by the Pistons, Bird, Magic; couldn't win until they all either got old or retired.

Lebron is clear tbh.

No iconic finals wins? I guess carrying the team all by himself in 1998, scoring 40+ points the last game and hitting one of the most iconic game-winners of all time doesn't count?

Magic wasn't "old" in 1991, he was still a top 5 player, easily. He just was forced into early retirement due to HIV.

He got spanked by the Celtics because he had no team.

He took the Pistons to 6 and 7 games in the ECF, that's not getting spanked.

That meme game winner over a 90s TJ McConnell lmfao

[JoeyLightYears]

That meme game winner over a 90s TJ McConnell lmfao

Watch on YouTube

[Nazrmohamed]

The problem with these arguments is that they utilize pace and efficiency, hand checking and physicality but never strictly about rules. The game is so vastly different that to make someone understand they'd have to first understand that WITHIN todays game, WITH todays players different players would emerge as great players, while others would be limited.

Start there. I'll vote Jordan every time. Titles do matter to me and don't try, you won't change my mind on that. And if somebody feels that says Russell is better than both I won't argue with them. Wasnt alive. But I was alive too see both Jordan and Lebron play and have made my choice. I do think its laughable when people go the other way and say Lebron couldn't handle the 90 though. He'd be just as scary.

[tanuki1031]

We wearing Air Jordans and not Air Lebrons or Air Russells for a reason and it ain't because of fashion.

[oaktownwarriors87]

You're welcome

[dhsilv2]

This is how the greatest in sports are measured by how much they won, Messi and CR7 they won a bunch, pele also, Russell, Jabbar, Magic, Bird, Brady also won a bunch.
Its like that in all sports the guys who win the most=greatest.
That is what fans want TITLES not 2nd places.
But you want change how people view the greatest because it fits your narative to prop Lebron up

Given I don't care for lebron, I'm clearly not trying to change the criteria. I'm just going against stupid criteria used by simple casual fans.

Simple casual fans so analysts who get paid for it are simple casual fans?

I doubt an actual analyst paid to do it would say such things. Someone who's paid to get views on tv? Well of course, their motto is more spews for more views. Smart intelligent talking points doesn't get views.

[Nate505]

Arguments for LeBron:

Highest box and non-box statistical peak in a much, much more internationally competitive and sophisticated era against superior athletes and teams who actually mathematically understand how to play basketball

Far superior versatility and longevity


"Arguments" for MJ:

Romanticized sociopathy

Scored a lot of points (on worse efficiency even adjusted for era) on impossibly stacked teams against Kurt Rambis and John Stockton with the greatest coach ever while sticking his tongue out and being "feared"


I have no doubt whatsoever that Kawhi could have three-peated twice in MJ's situation.

Jordan was an absolute assassin. He had no issue ripping another team's heart out to win, and for it often.

Lebron is more like a cyborg. He probably is the best player I've ever seen in a vacuum, but he doesn't have the killer instinct that Jordan did.

[OdomFan]

Absolutely.

MJ was able to accept being coached better
MJ Shot the ball better
MJ played defense better both 1 on 1, and help defense.
MJ was the better overall leader that pushed his team to bring it.

Lebron wants to be their buddy until things fall apart in which case he'll throw them under the bus then leave.

Lebron passes better, and rebounds better which makes sense considering he's a forward and all. That's really about it.

Yeah. I'm sticking with Jordan as number 1.

Lebron is simply the greatest of his own prime era and nothing more.

[BloodNinja]

Jordan is by far the best player ever.

[DaPessimist]

You can make a reasonable argument for either player. Just like you can make a reasonable argument that Kareem is better than both of them.

[TheHardenChoke]

Jordan has zero iconic finals wins. Jordan ducked all of the greats from his era. Got spanked by the Pistons, Bird, Magic; couldn't win until they all either got old or retired.

Lebron is clear tbh.

And this is why people don't take the LeBron fans seriously.

95% of them are jokes