Who's the G.O.A.T. ?

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Who's the G.O.A.T. ?

Michael Jordan
516
61%
LeBron James
210
25%
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
42
5%
Bill Russell
26
3%
Wilt Chamberlain
28
3%
Other
22
3%
 
Total votes: 844

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Re: Who's the G.O.A.T. ? 

Post#161 » by twyzted » Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:56 am

Magic Is Magic wrote:
LesGrossman wrote:
Magic Is Magic wrote:Yes as it turns out, based on mathematical principles and mathematic laws 38 points is not 40. So no, I do not see a "back to back" 40 point games. And anyway, LeBron still did more. I can reply back with, "Are you really going to ignore LeBron's 34-12-10 on 55%" in the 2017 Finals? I get that Kyrie was a special scorer, but LeBron still scored more so what does that say?

You got owned, man. Stand up to it. You talk without even doing the slightest bit of homework, and we all know people like you will pretend Bron carried AD in the bubble to the title two or three years from now. Its always the same ol' song, which is why noone with a bit of self esteem wants to play alongside bron. Stans will always try to exaggerate what he did and try to tell us his team mates are awful and useless.

I never get owned, ever. Let's start there. If anything, you as a LeBron hater has been getting owned ever since 2004. 17 years of being owned as a LeBron hater. Ouch. And guess what, year 18 is on the way. That means 18 years of ownage. How do you cope with that volume of abuse? You are a tough man.


Right you just stop responding.
That is possibly the worst comeback ive seen in a long time :lol:
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Re: Who's the G.O.A.T. ? 

Post#162 » by Caped Crusader » Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:45 am

Michael Jordan is easily the GOAT. LeBron is a great player but I don't think he's even the runner up right now, Kareem is.

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Re: Who's the G.O.A.T. ? 

Post#163 » by AussieCeltic » Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:12 am

Metallikid wrote:
RB34 wrote:
Metallikid wrote:MJ stans are legit cultish.


And LeBron fans are exactly the same.

That’s what’s wrong with people these days, completely unwilling and unable to see both sides of the coin.


I don't think that's the case though. I see, by proportion, probably 3:1 LeBron stans providing actual arguments and evidence as to why he is better than MJ whereas most MJ stans treat it like it's an axiomatic truth that he's the GOAT. LeBron stans, including me, are usually willing to give MJ credit and he typically ranks #2. MJ stans rarely give LeBron any credit and a lot of them don't rank LeBron #2 because even at #2 he would threaten MJ's standing.


The irony of this post is through the roof.

MJ typically ranks #2 from Lebron fans? Of course he does because he is the actual GOAT.

The only argument for Lebron over MJ is longevity, but then he is behind KAJ.

Any argument built up from the Lebron side can easily be beaten by MJ or KAJ. I'm sorry he's just not there yet.

Does he have a chance to be? Sure. If he continues to play at a high level and win another championship then there should probably be an argument but right now, it's really not that close.

The poll has had quite a few votes now, so it's pretty clear to see where the consensus is. So maybe you should think to yourself, maybe I am wrong?
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Re: Who's the G.O.A.T. ? 

Post#164 » by AlexanderRight » Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:50 am

I would take this debate much more seriously if it wasn’t for the fact that about most of the people that legitimately don’t believe that Jordan is the GOAT never actually saw him play. These are the same millennials that think Drake is the GOAT rapper too :lol:
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Re: Who's the G.O.A.T. ? 

Post#165 » by Pg81 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:09 am

AlexanderRight wrote:I would take this debate much more seriously if it wasn’t for the fact that about most of the people that legitimately don’t believe that Jordan is the GOAT never actually saw him play. These are the same millennials that think Drake is the GOAT rapper too :lol:

:crazy:
It is 2020 not 1990. Most of MJs career can easily be viewed on YT.
If you're asking me who the Mavs best player is, I'd say Luka. A guy like Delon Wright probably rivals his impact though at this stage in his career. KP may as well if he gets his **** together.
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Re: Who's the G.O.A.T. ? 

Post#166 » by AlexanderRight » Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:13 am

Pg81 wrote:
AlexanderRight wrote:I would take this debate much more seriously if it wasn’t for the fact that about most of the people that legitimately don’t believe that Jordan is the GOAT never actually saw him play. These are the same millennials that think Drake is the GOAT rapper too :lol:

:crazy:
It is 2020 not 1990. Most of MJs career can easily be viewed on YT.

Watching highlights on YouTube and watching actual full games and years of play are two completely different things.
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Re: Who's the G.O.A.T. ? 

Post#167 » by Pg81 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:16 am

AlexanderRight wrote:
Pg81 wrote:
AlexanderRight wrote:I would take this debate much more seriously if it wasn’t for the fact that about most of the people that legitimately don’t believe that Jordan is the GOAT never actually saw him play. These are the same millennials that think Drake is the GOAT rapper too :lol:

:crazy:
It is 2020 not 1990. Most of MJs career can easily be viewed on YT.

Watching highlights on YouTube and watching actual full games and years of play are two completely different things.


Just one example:


Entire games are watchable and I am sure there are other sources to watch MJs career online plus probably can buy DvDs and Blu Rays, too and those are just the legal options. Again this is 2020, not 1990 when non-Americans had to have American friends taping games on VHS so they can watch them. The internet provides a sea of information.
If you're asking me who the Mavs best player is, I'd say Luka. A guy like Delon Wright probably rivals his impact though at this stage in his career. KP may as well if he gets his **** together.
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Re: Who's the G.O.A.T. ? 

Post#168 » by AlexanderRight » Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:24 am

Pg81 wrote:
AlexanderRight wrote:
Pg81 wrote: :crazy:
It is 2020 not 1990. Most of MJs career can easily be viewed on YT.

Watching highlights on YouTube and watching actual full games and years of play are two completely different things.


Just one example:


Entire games are watchable and I am sure there are other sources to watch MJs career online plus probably can buy DvDs and Blu Rays, too and those are just the legal options. Again this is 2020, not 1990 when non-Americans had to have American friends taping games on VHS so they can watch them. The internet provides a sea of information.

No question, the content is out there. But how much of today’s instant gratification generation do you believe are actually watching full entire nba games of a time before they were born? I doubt it’s very many. They rather let basketball reference tell them the story, instead of the action on court.
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Re: Who's the G.O.A.T. ? 

Post#169 » by LesGrossman » Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:31 am

jaymo123 wrote:
Ito wrote:
Drylick wrote:
Sorry but anyone who says that all Jordan did was score is an idiot and loses all credibility.



Accomplishments and skills say otherwise.


Obviously Jordan was a great all around player but did he win before Pippen? No.. He would score 30-40 points easily with no rings to show so therefore all he did was score a lot of points.. and during the 6 championships finals Pippen led the two in every stat besides points.. :dontknow:


Did Lebron win before teaming up with Bosh, Wade, Irving, Love, and Davis?

Leave it alone, those kds dont get it. They dont understand that MJ created Scotty Pippen, got the worm to cooperate. LeBron just goes shopping for ready "win now" players and he is being equalled to MJ lol. Scotty comes in to the league and goes through a brutally hard school that made him a HOF'er and MJ is being blamed for that, is the most ironic thing ever. Meanwhile, LeBron's first thing when he joins his next superteam base, is to sell away all young talent in an instant.

Interestingly, the following question has not ever been answered by any quality of lebron fans.

Scotty was taught by MJ and made into an allstar. Which rookie has LeBron ever helped consistently and successfully? Name some please.
If you can't, use every bit of force that you can find within you to keep yourself from ever mentioning Scotty's name in a G.O.A.T. context again as something negative.
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Re: Who's the G.O.A.T. ? 

Post#170 » by LesGrossman » Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:35 am

Magic Is Magic wrote:
LesGrossman wrote:
Magic Is Magic wrote:Yes as it turns out, based on mathematical principles and mathematic laws 38 points is not 40. So no, I do not see a "back to back" 40 point games. And anyway, LeBron still did more. I can reply back with, "Are you really going to ignore LeBron's 34-12-10 on 55%" in the 2017 Finals? I get that Kyrie was a special scorer, but LeBron still scored more so what does that say?

You got owned, man. Stand up to it. You talk without even doing the slightest bit of homework, and we all know people like you will pretend Bron carried AD in the bubble to the title two or three years from now. Its always the same ol' song, which is why noone with a bit of self esteem wants to play alongside bron. Stans will always try to exaggerate what he did and try to tell us his team mates are awful and useless.

I never get owned, ever. Let's start there. If anything, you as a LeBron hater has been getting owned ever since 2004. 17 years of being owned as a LeBron hater. Ouch. And guess what, year 18 is on the way. That means 18 years of ownage. How do you cope with that volume of abuse? You are a tough man.


:lol: Nice try. Or rather,


I hope that laugh helps you over your L.
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Re: Who's the G.O.A.T. ? 

Post#171 » by Pg81 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:45 am

AlexanderRight wrote:
Pg81 wrote:
AlexanderRight wrote:Watching highlights on YouTube and watching actual full games and years of play are two completely different things.


Just one example:


Entire games are watchable and I am sure there are other sources to watch MJs career online plus probably can buy DvDs and Blu Rays, too and those are just the legal options. Again this is 2020, not 1990 when non-Americans had to have American friends taping games on VHS so they can watch them. The internet provides a sea of information.

No question, the content is out there. But how much of today’s instant gratification generation do you believe are actually watching full entire nba games of a time before they were born? I doubt it’s very many. They rather let basketball reference tell them the story, instead of the action on court.

:roll:
Do you have any actual statistics or are you just pulling stuff out of thin air? Always easy to point at a certain group of people you perceive as "less than me" and proclaim that you are "superior".
If you're asking me who the Mavs best player is, I'd say Luka. A guy like Delon Wright probably rivals his impact though at this stage in his career. KP may as well if he gets his **** together.
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Re: Who's the G.O.A.T. ? 

Post#172 » by AlexanderRight » Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:47 am

Magic Is Magic wrote:
LesGrossman wrote:
Magic Is Magic wrote:Yes as it turns out, based on mathematical principles and mathematic laws 38 points is not 40. So no, I do not see a "back to back" 40 point games. And anyway, LeBron still did more. I can reply back with, "Are you really going to ignore LeBron's 34-12-10 on 55%" in the 2017 Finals? I get that Kyrie was a special scorer, but LeBron still scored more so what does that say?

You got owned, man. Stand up to it. You talk without even doing the slightest bit of homework, and we all know people like you will pretend Bron carried AD in the bubble to the title two or three years from now. Its always the same ol' song, which is why noone with a bit of self esteem wants to play alongside bron. Stans will always try to exaggerate what he did and try to tell us his team mates are awful and useless.

I never get owned, ever. Let's start there. If anything, you as a LeBron hater has been getting owned ever since 2004. 17 years of being owned as a LeBron hater. Ouch. And guess what, year 18 is on the way. That means 18 years of ownage. How do you cope with that volume of abuse? You are a tough man.

It’s no wonder why Kyrie wanted to get away from Lebron. Mofo dropped 30PPG in the 17 Finals and homers still trynna act like its “Lebron vs The World”! :lol:
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Re: Who's the G.O.A.T. ? 

Post#173 » by LesGrossman » Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:52 am

AlexanderRight wrote:
Magic Is Magic wrote:
LesGrossman wrote:You got owned, man. Stand up to it. You talk without even doing the slightest bit of homework, and we all know people like you will pretend Bron carried AD in the bubble to the title two or three years from now. Its always the same ol' song, which is why noone with a bit of self esteem wants to play alongside bron. Stans will always try to exaggerate what he did and try to tell us his team mates are awful and useless.

I never get owned, ever. Let's start there. If anything, you as a LeBron hater has been getting owned ever since 2004. 17 years of being owned as a LeBron hater. Ouch. And guess what, year 18 is on the way. That means 18 years of ownage. How do you cope with that volume of abuse? You are a tough man.

It’s no wonder why Kyrie wanted to get away from Lebron. Mofo dropped 30PPG in the 17 Finals and homers still trynna act like its “Lebron vs The World”! :lol:

Same happened to everyone who was a superstar before siding up with Bron. His stans, the media and the league itself, unbearable, force-feeding brainwash that the younger generations who never saw a better product willingly succumbs to. Just watch the ads, the little fill-ins between plays. Its all about one guy, no team ever...and of course the exact same happens to AD, who actually carried the team for big parts of the postseason. Suddenly he isnt even mentioned, its LeBron's ring alone. i believe that at this point, it takes a special kind of mental weakness and insecurity to accept the robin role to his batman. I'm puzzled AD can live with himself. And as someone who follows Kawhi's journey, i'm very proud he turned LeBron's begging down. Would have lost all respect for him had he joined.
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Re: Who's the G.O.A.T. ? 

Post#174 » by AlexanderRight » Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:02 am

Pg81 wrote:
AlexanderRight wrote:
Pg81 wrote:
Just one example:


Entire games are watchable and I am sure there are other sources to watch MJs career online plus probably can buy DvDs and Blu Rays, too and those are just the legal options. Again this is 2020, not 1990 when non-Americans had to have American friends taping games on VHS so they can watch them. The internet provides a sea of information.

No question, the content is out there. But how much of today’s instant gratification generation do you believe are actually watching full entire nba games of a time before they were born? I doubt it’s very many. They rather let basketball reference tell them the story, instead of the action on court.

:roll:
Do you have any actual statistics or are you just pulling stuff out of thing air? Always easy to point at a certain group of people you perceive as "less than me" and proclaim that you are "superior".

Calm down there buddy. Nobody’s saying anything about being “better than” or “superior” to people. Don’t get your panties all twisted. Looks like my words hit a little too close to home for you. Most millennials can’t tolerate a 10 second buffering time so you have to forgive my doubt about them watching a full 48 minute game of an era that they’ve already decided was lame.
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Re: Who's the G.O.A.T. ? 

Post#175 » by Pg81 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:02 am

AlexanderRight wrote:
Pg81 wrote:
AlexanderRight wrote:No question, the content is out there. But how much of today’s instant gratification generation do you believe are actually watching full entire nba games of a time before they were born? I doubt it’s very many. They rather let basketball reference tell them the story, instead of the action on court.

:roll:
Do you have any actual statistics or are you just pulling stuff out of thing air? Always easy to point at a certain group of people you perceive as "less than me" and proclaim that you are "superior".

Calm down there buddy. Nobody’s saying anything about being “better than” or “superior” to people. Don’t get your panties all twisted. Looks like my words hit a little too close to home for you. Most millennials can’t tolerate a 10 second buffering time so you have to forgive my doubt about them watching a full 48 minute game of an era that they’ve already decided was lame.

:crazy:
If you're asking me who the Mavs best player is, I'd say Luka. A guy like Delon Wright probably rivals his impact though at this stage in his career. KP may as well if he gets his **** together.
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Re: Who's the G.O.A.T. ? 

Post#176 » by Doug_12 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:36 am

Pg81 wrote:
AlexanderRight wrote:
Pg81 wrote: :crazy:
It is 2020 not 1990. Most of MJs career can easily be viewed on YT.

Watching highlights on YouTube and watching actual full games and years of play are two completely different things.


Just one example:


Entire games are watchable and I am sure there are other sources to watch MJs career online plus probably can buy DvDs and Blu Rays, too and those are just the legal options. Again this is 2020, not 1990 when non-Americans had to have American friends taping games on VHS so they can watch them. The internet provides a sea of information.

There can be significant bias towards a player even if someone sees full games and not highlights. There are much fewer games of Kobe for example on youtube where he shot the Lakers out of a game - which happened often after 2010 and time to time in his prime as well.

Or there's the Duncan-KG comparison: Duncan again has more "important" games (WCF, Finals etc...) and he is almost always ranked above KG. But 10 years ago - when everyone who was judging them seen them on a daily basis - it was a toss up.

This kind of bias will always be present towards players in previous eras.
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Re: Who's the G.O.A.T. ? 

Post#177 » by scrabbarista » Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:52 am

There are a lot dumb, thin arguments tossed around when it comes to this debate, including from so-called experts. The two dumbest, imho, are "six for six" and "ten Finals." (If you at least go on to elaborate on the significance/meaning of "6 for 6" or "ten Finals," then maybe you're saying something worth hearing.)

A person could probably write a hundred-page essay on either side of this debate, yet most commenters attempt to defend their position with a few sentences or a handful of stats.

Which is (kind of) what I'm about to do.

Prefacing by saying I could probably write that hundred-page essay if I wanted to spend six months working on it, I'll now try to summarize in just two reasons, or ten minutes, the essence of what I believe made Michael Jordan the greatest to ever play the game. It won't be better than this:



but it's a small part of what I can add to the conversation at the moment.

Reason #1: Shot-making.

In an era when space around the basket was at a premium and contact was the norm on the perimeter, Michael Jordan could create a high-quality shot for himself or a teammate, from any spot on the floor, at any time, in the half-court. One of the most convincing arguments against LeBron James in the above video is the knock on his shooting outside of 3 feet: 35.9% for his playoff career, and not much better in the regular season. This hasn't hurt him as much as it might have, because he's played much of his career in an era when:

a.) it's been relatively easy to get to the rim, and/or

b.) greater emphasis on the three has increased every player's ability to be mathematically efficient from outside while not necessarily being a very good shooter.

The last game of the '96-'97 season, which the Bulls lost while going for their second-straight 70-win season (MJ scores 33, not 65, lol), is a good example of the kind of shot-making Jordan was capable of even at the age of 34. Look at the shots he's taking/making, and then realize he shot 14 of 22 from the field in this game. There is no gameplan for that. You simply hope. One major difference between MJ and LeBron is that when you were hoping MJ would miss from outside, you were hoping for a much more unlikely outcome:



Reason #2: Mentality.

In the NBA, Jordan never had to learn what James finally learned in Boston in 2012, because Jordan had learned it before he got to UNC. This is maybe what some people are implying when they say "six for six" - as stupid as that argument is on its face. I could name a few other mental areas where Jordan excelled James (psychological domination of opponents and fearlessness when a miss would mean a loss, to name two), but suffice to say that Jordan almost never had a playoff game where you could say "they lost because of him," and he certainly never had a series like that. James had two such series while in his prime.

Everyone is familiar with his unforgettable 18 ppg on 48/32/60 splits with 7 assists and 4 TO's per game in the 2011 Finals. Perhaps worst of all, he only took 15 shots per game and only shot 3 free throws per game in that series.

Lesser known, but arguably just as bad, was his total, personal collapse over the last three playoff games of his first tenure in Cleveland. These are James' numbers over the last three games of that series, as he "lead" the 61-win Cavaliers in three straight losses to the 50-win Celtics, giving up a 2-1 advantage to lose the series, 2-4:

21 ppg on 34/15/74 splits. 8 assists and 6 TO's per game.

Astonishingly bad. This was a player coming off of back-to-back MVP seasons, who had reached the Finals before, and whose team had averaged 64 wins in the previous two seasons. This was not a youngster still learning the ropes of the NBA playoffs.

And while I'm here, though we usually give him a pass because he was young or something, it's worth remembering James' numbers while getting swept in the 2007 Finals:

22 ppg on 35/20/65 splits. 7 assists and 6 TO's per game.

Brutal.

Michael Jordan doesn't have a single blemish on his record as bad as any of these, never mind three such blemishes. Whether it was because of his superior shot-making ability, or his tighter handle, greater mobility, and better control of the game, or his tougher mental makeup - or, all of the above - no one ever saw Jordan neutered in that way, and that speaks volumes about the gap between he and James.
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Re: Who's the G.O.A.T. ? 

Post#178 » by Amares » Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:27 am

It's LeBron of course, Jordan doesn't seem to have much left in this debate, he was GOAT for a long time, but now people realize it's over. LeBron's domination, and amount of time his prime longs is unmatched in history, especially when you consider he's doing this in modern greatest league.
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Re: Who's the G.O.A.T. ? 

Post#179 » by LesGrossman » Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:28 am

Amares wrote:It's LeBron of course, Jordan doesn't seem to have much left in this debate, he was GOAT for a long time, but now people realize it's over. LeBron's domination, and amount of time his prime longs is unmatched in history, especially when you consider he's doing this in modern greatest league.

oh, okay then. Thank you for clarifying.
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Re: Who's the G.O.A.T. ? 

Post#180 » by twyzted » Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:34 am

scrabbarista wrote:There are a lot dumb, thin arguments tossed around when it comes to this debate, including from so-called experts. The two dumbest, imho, are "6 for 6" and "ten Finals." (If you at least go on to elaborate on the significance/meaning of "6 for 6" or "ten Finals," then maybe you're saying something worth hearing.)

A person could probably write a hundred-page essay on either side of this debate, yet most commenters attempt to defend their position with a few sentences or a handful of stats.

Which is (kind of) what I'm about to do.

Prefacing by saying I could probably write that hundred-page essay if I wanted to spend two months working on it, I'll now try to summarize in just two reasons, or ten minutes, the essence of what I believe made Michael Jordan the greatest to ever play the game. It won't be better than this:



but it's a small part of what I can add to the conversation at the moment.

Reason #1: Shot-making.

In an era when space around the basket was at a premium and contact was the norm on the perimeter, Michael Jordan could create a high-quality shot for himself or a teammate, from any spot on the floor, at any time, in the half-court. One of the most convincing arguments against LeBron James in the above video is the knock on his shooting outside of 3 feet: 35.9% for his playoff career, and not much better in the regular season. This hasn't hurt him as much as it might have, because he's played much of his career in an era when:

a.) it's been relatively easy to get to the rim, and/or

b.) greater emphasis on the three has increased every player's ability to be mathematically efficient from outside while not necessarily being a very good shooter.

This random game, which the Bulls lost while going for their second-straight 70-win season (he scores 33, not 65, lol), is a good example of the kind of shot-making Jordan was capable of even at the age of 34. Look at the shots he's taking/making, and then realize he shot 14 of 22 from the field in this game. There is no game-plan for that. You simply hope. The difference between MJ and LeBron, is that when you were hoping Jordan would miss from outside, you were hoping in a much more unlikely outcome:



Reason #2: Mentality.

Jordan never had to learn what James finally learned in Boston in 2012, because Jordan had already learned it before he got to UNC. This is maybe what some people are implying when they say "6 for 6" - as stupid as that argument is on its face. I could name a couple of other mental areas where Jordan excelled James (psychological domination of opponents, and fearlessness when a miss would mean a loss, to name two), but suffice to say that Jordan almost never had a game where you could say "they lost because of him," and he certainly never had a series like that. James had two such series while in his prime.

Everyone is familiar with his dismal 18 ppg on 48/32/60 splits with 7 assists and 4 TO's per game in the 2011 Finals. Perhaps worst of all, he only took 15 shots per game and only shot 3 free throws per game in that series.

Lesser known, but arguably just as bad, was his total collapse over the last three games of his first tenure in Cleveland. While "leading" the 61 win Cavaliers against the 50 win Celtics, these are James' numbers over the last three games of that series, as his team went from up 2-1 to losing 4-2:

21 ppg on 34/15/74 splits. 8 assists and 6 TO's per game.

Astonishingly bad. This was a player coming off of back-to-back MVP seasons, who had reached the Finals before, and whose team had averaged 64 wins in the previous two seasons. This was not a youngster still learning the ropes of the NBA playoffs.

And while I'm here, though we usually give him a pass because he was young or something, it's worth remembering James' numbers while getting swept in the 2007 finals:

22 ppg on 35/20/65 splits. 7 assists and 6 TO's per game.

Michael Jordan doesn't have a single blemish on his record as bad as any of these, never mind three such blemishes. Whether it was because of his superior shot-making ability, or his tighter handle, greater mobility, and better control of the game, or his tougher mental makeup - or, all of the above - no one ever saw Jordan neutered in that way, and that speaks volumes about the gap between he and James.


Great post!
I watched game 6 of the 92 series vs portland tonight.
They were down 15 at the start of the 4th with Jordan on the bench.
He came in around 9 mins left and he just let the offense flow then around 5 minute mark he just went of scored 12 points on 5-7 shooting, 2 steals, 2 rebounds 2 assists
To finish the game. But he played of the ball for most parts and was always moving off ball.

Go to timestamp 2:01:50 listen to what marv said to mike fratello


Spoiler:
(Mike and Marv talking off camera)
Mike: Marv's shaking his head like there's no way ...
Marv: Yup ... Michael's gonna come in and wreck this. No ... He is, I mean that's what's gonna happen ... it's over.
Pennebaker wrote:Jordan lacks LeBron's mental toughness.

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