How Come Buford and Gregg Popovich Get a Pass for Blowing the Kawhi Leonard Trade?

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Re: How Come Buford and Gregg Popovich Get a Pass for Blowing the Kawhi Leonard Trade? 

Post#161 » by DoctorX » Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:28 am

Leslie Forman wrote:Because the media loves sucking off the Spurs. They are everything that is good and holy about sports.

If it wasn't for miraculously winning the lottery two years where there was a clear and obvious stud at #1, there probably wouldn't be an NBA team in San Antonio right now.


If that was true the media would have sided with the Spurs over Kawhi during the Spurs-Kawhi saga. That whole entire year Kawhi sat out they were siding with Kawhi simply because they wanted him in LA. They tore up the Spurs organization from '17-'19 and praised Kawhi. The media has never loved the Spurs. They started begrudgingly giving the Spurs respect after they had won 4 titles due to the Spurs being successful.
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Re: How Come Buford and Gregg Popovich Get a Pass for Blowing the Kawhi Leonard Trade? 

Post#162 » by Pharmcat » Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:28 am

GREY 1769 wrote:
NoZoLakers wrote:
DoctorX wrote:
They were not offering the farm. Grey has broken this down over a million times now. They offered Deng,BI,Ball/Hart. Spurs had no need for Ball/Hart since they already had Dejounte/White at the time. Deng was a garbage contract and BI is an empty stat player. If that's what you call the farm that's a **** farm that has been burned down.

stop the deng bs n no la wasnt offering ball n Ingram, it was 1 or the other....Deng didnt need to be included, la had cap space, its why deng wasnt included in AD deal

That you think it COULD have happened or didn't need to be included has no bearing on the fact that he parties involved didn't get to where you now think they could/ought to have with respect to Deng. LAL lowballed Spurs thinking they had it in the bag. Two weeks after our season was done #2 was 'finished with his rehab' and sitting in Magic's Dodger seats. Like **** right off to that whole scheme and scam.

Ball OR Ingram?! Oh WOW! What a 'Godfather offer'! Bwahahahahaha! We decided on another offer. We liked it better.

ingram is better than anything spurs got from TOR in that trade
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Re: How Come Buford and Gregg Popovich Get a Pass for Blowing the Kawhi Leonard Trade? 

Post#163 » by levon » Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:29 am

GREY 1769 wrote:
levon wrote:Also Spurs fans, you don't get to frame this as the Laker fans being greedy when there's been multiple reports of Pop reaching out to other front offices and urging them not to make a deal with the Lakers. Let's just say very few Laker fans are lamenting Pop's career going out with a whimper in perpetual 9th seed fashion.

Pray tell, what were the Lakers' fortunes before LBJ decided to go there after your big name players left the game? And for how long? I'd say Spurs are faring far better in our transition period.

The Pau trade was fair game to rail against.

The AD trade was fair to give prudent advice about. NOP got a better package in waiting after following Pop's advice in doing so - it was sought and given and NOP benefited from it.

It's not about Pop's career, which again like others you're assigning an arbitrary end point to, but about how you navigate through the sweet years and the challenging years. If there's no system of values and guiding principles in place, you get perpetual mediocrity for years. We've missed the playoffs once in 22 years and have a young group more ready to take on bigger roles. With cap space coming up - read: no Deng. lol

Weird how this revisit has emerged after the DeMar to LAL rumours fizzled...

Why exactly was the Pau trade fair game to rail against? Is whining about the prudent moves of your competition somehow an admirable quality? It's entirely his prerogative to do whatever he wants. He's earned more than that right. You can't write the story of basketball without Pop. He's indelibly a part of my own childhood.

But also expect to catch some flack from fans of the opposing organization if you're consistently trying to sabotage them, while not being competitive yourself. There's going to be some kicking while the Spurs are down from Lakers fans. It's just how this works, man. It's how it worked when the Lakers were down too. Folks in here acting like the jeering at Pop is just in a vacuum.
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Re: How Come Buford and Gregg Popovich Get a Pass for Blowing the Kawhi Leonard Trade? 

Post#164 » by NoZoLakers » Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:31 am

GREY 1769 wrote:
NoZoLakers wrote:
DoctorX wrote:
They were not offering the farm. Grey has broken this down over a million times now. They offered Deng,BI,Ball/Hart. Spurs had no need for Ball/Hart since they already had Dejounte/White at the time. Deng was a garbage contract and BI is an empty stat player. If that's what you call the farm that's a **** farm that has been burned down.

stop the deng bs n no la wasnt offering ball n Ingram, it was 1 or the other....Deng didnt need to be included, la had cap space, its why deng wasnt included in AD deal

That you think it COULD have happened or didn't need to be included has no bearing on the fact that he parties involved didn't get to where you now think they could/ought to have with respect to Deng. LAL lowballed Spurs thinking they had it in the bag. Two weeks after our season was done #2 was 'finished with his rehab' and sitting in Magic's Dodger seats. Like **** right off to that whole scheme and scam.

Ball OR Ingram?! Oh WOW! What a 'Godfather offer'! Bwahahahahaha! We decided on another offer. We liked it better.

i have no beef with what you accepted....you might have liked better than but it certainly not working out like you would've thought....everyone got what they wanted, tor got a chip, Leonard got another chip n still ended up in la, lakers got Ad n a chip, Spurs ends up with Potel for 3 more yrs
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Re: How Come Buford and Gregg Popovich Get a Pass for Blowing the Kawhi Leonard Trade? 

Post#165 » by DoctorX » Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:31 am

NoZoLakers wrote:
DoctorX wrote:
NoZoLakers wrote:stop the deng bs n no la wasnt offering ball n Ingram, it was 1 or the other....Deng didnt need to be included, la had cap space, its why deng wasnt included in AD deal


I'm going to take Grey's word over yours when Grey stated Deng was included in it.

jim gray don't know jack n like i said deng wasnt part of ad trade so he didnt need to be included in Leonard trade either and 2ndly la wasnt going to include both ball n ingram because they wanted to preserve assets for AD as well


:lol: so the Lakers were just going to offer empty stat Ingram for Kawhi or Ball straight up for Kawhi? Wow 2 crappy offers to pick from. That's like offering some one the choice of eating a **** sandwich or drinking acid.
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Re: How Come Buford and Gregg Popovich Get a Pass for Blowing the Kawhi Leonard Trade? 

Post#166 » by G R E Y » Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:32 am

levon wrote:
DoctorX wrote:
levon wrote:Something I haven't seen noted here yet:
- It was unclear if Kawhi was going to be the same player. His value was relatively unknown
- BI had no known blood clot issues at the time (that surfaced at the end of the next season), but had also shown us much less than he has now. I don't think anyone envisioned him getting to 40% from 3 and jumping to like 85% or whatever from the line. Ironically a Kawhi-like jump in offensive prowess.
- The Spurs also gave up Danny Green

I don't like BI being caught in the crosshairs here by both fanbases. BI ended up being undeniably the more valuable asset than Derozan. Whether or not you think he's "empty stats" or whatever, he's still the younger, more efficient option of a proven empty stats player like Derozan.

tl;dr It's entirely possible to say it was a reasonable move by the Spurs at the time, and that in hindsight it wasn''t because Kawhi ended up being disproportionately more valuable across the league than Demar and Poetl. And you can do all this without getting up in your feelings or bagging on a promising young player.


Spur fans don't deny they got ripped off in this deal. It's undeniable but for the 1 millionth time they were never going to get equal value back for Kawhi. They were no better deals out there considering Kawhi sabotaged his value by sitting out a year and also telling everybody he was going to sign with LA regardless. He only had 1 year left on his contract so no team was going to give up a star player for him. Now if he had 2 years left on his contract the Spurs could have gotten a lot more in return.

You want accuse spur fans being in their feelings about calling BI an empty stat player which I find ironic considering Laker fans are in their feelings about BI. Whenever someone criticizes BI they get ultra defensive. I guess you guys have to justify BI's value after the Lakers ripped off the Pelicans to somehow create the narrative that it was a fair deal.

a) It's obvious you weren't going to get requisite value for a disgruntled superstar, but that deal is disproportionately poor even if you normalize by the discount for disgruntled superstars leaguewide. Also, it was entirely unclear what Kawhi was going to return as. It wasn't as cut-and-dry as AD.
b) The Paul George deal was basically the same as the Anthony Davis one, and this was without the public spectacle that AD put on, so I'm not entirely sure NO got "ripped off". And you can argue that BI is better than SGA, and you'd probably win that argument.
c) Derozan was a proven empty stats player that the Spurs held their nose on to bring in to keep them afloat in the Western conference for the last few years of Pop's tenure. You know how I know that? There is no other way to justify bringing in Derozan after multiple years of subpar playoff performances. He had absolutely zero long-term value. He wouldn't even shoot the most important shot in the game.

Simply put, who is more valuable today, Derozan or Brandon Ingram? Even if you hated Ingram's empty statsness, which would net you more on the market today?

You're either missing the point or ignoring it intentionally. I think now perhaps the latter because it can't have escaped anyone's notice in this thread by now that this was NOT A DEAL ABOUT BI VS. DD. It's about the package.

So, lol, one more time: Q: DID LAL OFFER AN ALL-STAR, A PROSPECT WE NEEDED AND FIT OUR CULTURE, AND A PICK?

Simply put - yes or no?

A: No.

AND we have Jakob who is a D anchor at C for us - position of need, AND we have Keldon Johnson who is better than either Ball or Hart, and better for us as well. AND we have the second most cap space in 2021.

AGAIN, WE LIKE THE DEAL WE TOOK BETTER THAN THE DEAL LAL OFFERED. You can tell because that's the deal we took. You can also tell because of the benefits just mentioned.

It's getting kind of sad that two plus years later some fans keep insisting we need the players they no longer have more. Still no lol
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Re: How Come Buford and Gregg Popovich Get a Pass for Blowing the Kawhi Leonard Trade? 

Post#167 » by DoctorX » Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:35 am

Pharmcat wrote:
GREY 1769 wrote:
NoZoLakers wrote:stop the deng bs n no la wasnt offering ball n Ingram, it was 1 or the other....Deng didnt need to be included, la had cap space, its why deng wasnt included in AD deal

That you think it COULD have happened or didn't need to be included has no bearing on the fact that he parties involved didn't get to where you now think they could/ought to have with respect to Deng. LAL lowballed Spurs thinking they had it in the bag. Two weeks after our season was done #2 was 'finished with his rehab' and sitting in Magic's Dodger seats. Like **** right off to that whole scheme and scam.

Ball OR Ingram?! Oh WOW! What a 'Godfather offer'! Bwahahahahaha! We decided on another offer. We liked it better.

ingram is better than anything spurs got from TOR in that trade


Yes the spurs could have had a younger empty stat player in Ingram over the older empty stat player in Derozan. AT the end of the day I'am never going to lose sleep about not getting Ingram. He will never be a top 5 player in this league and thus not worth caring about since Kawhi is a top 5 player arguably top 3 when he wants to play.
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Re: How Come Buford and Gregg Popovich Get a Pass for Blowing the Kawhi Leonard Trade? 

Post#168 » by NoZoLakers » Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:35 am

DoctorX wrote:
NoZoLakers wrote:
DoctorX wrote:
I'm going to take Grey's word over yours when Grey stated Deng was included in it.

jim gray don't know jack n like i said deng wasnt part of ad trade so he didnt need to be included in Leonard trade either and 2ndly la wasnt going to include both ball n ingram because they wanted to preserve assets for AD as well


:lol: so the Lakers were just going to offer empty stat Ingram for Kawhi or Ball straight up for Kawhi? Wow 2 crappy offers to pick from. That's like offering some one the choice of eating a **** sandwich or drinking acid.
youre right empty stats Derozan who probably leaves at end of this season n Potel is better, cant argue that
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Re: How Come Buford and Gregg Popovich Get a Pass for Blowing the Kawhi Leonard Trade? 

Post#169 » by levon » Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:36 am

Since memory is mercurial, here's an article from Zach Lowe assessing the deal.

DeRozan as a centerpiece is a disappointing return, but also one that reflects market realities. Gregg Popovich does not want to finish his career in a rebuild. The Spurs never showed interest in packages -- including Boston's -- heavy on picks and unproven players, sources have said. The Celtics would not swap any of their core guys, including Jaylen Brown, perhaps the most interesting Leonard trade chip in the league, without some assurances about Leonard's health and future plans, sources have said.

Philadelphia's potential package of Robert Covington, Dario Saric, and the Heat's unprotected 2021 pick didn't move the needle. It's unclear if the Spurs had interest in Markelle Fultz; the two sides never discussed him seriously, and the Sixers would not have parted with him, sources say. The Spurs made it clear any deal with Philly would require Ben Simmons or Joel Embiid (likely Simmons), and the Sixers weren't going anywhere near that, league sources say.

Talks with Boston and Philly stalled weeks ago. There was no frenzied last call Monday or Tuesday. San Antonio over the past four days lowered its asking price with a few other potential Leonard teams, according to sources around the league, but it was hard to build any realistic deal.


DeRozan was decent in Games 1 and 2 of their second-round series before vanishing in Cleveland. He finished the series 0-of-9 from deep. He spent the fourth quarter of Game 3, his last meaningful game playing for a team and city he grew to love and that loved him back, on the bench as the Raptors rallied (but still lost) without him.


Poeltl is solid -- a nimble center who thinks and feels the game at a high level. Losing him makes the prospect of someday trading Jonas Valanciunas -- a Nurse favorite, by the way -- more fraught. But he also might top out as a nice backup, or fifth starter who struggles defending lineups with five 3-point shooters. The first-round pick is about as low-value as one can get.


It's possible Boston, Philly, and other teams loaded with picks weren't offering their best ones -- including the juicy 2019 Kings pick the Sixers and Celtics have divided like a summer timeshare. But a franchise with different priorities could have bid those sorts of teams against each other, and come out with an interesting collection of future assets.


The Spurs lost some leverage when LeBron James opted out of his deal with Cleveland, and lost more when he joined the Lakers without issuing any immediate mandates about superstar partners. They were going to lose a little more every day until training camp.

They didn't start with much, either. Nobody knows if Leonard is healthy enough to regain status as a top-five player and MVP candidate. (He still has to pass a physical.) Suitors feared his impending free agency, and his reported preference for one of the L.A. teams.


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24128608/zach-lowe-kawhi-leonard-trade-spurs-raptors-nba
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Re: How Come Buford and Gregg Popovich Get a Pass for Blowing the Kawhi Leonard Trade? 

Post#170 » by DoctorX » Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:37 am

NoZoLakers wrote:
DoctorX wrote:
NoZoLakers wrote:jim gray don't know jack n like i said deng wasnt part of ad trade so he didnt need to be included in Leonard trade either and 2ndly la wasnt going to include both ball n ingram because they wanted to preserve assets for AD as well


:lol: so the Lakers were just going to offer empty stat Ingram for Kawhi or Ball straight up for Kawhi? Wow 2 crappy offers to pick from. That's like offering some one the choice of eating a **** sandwich or drinking acid.
youre right empty stats Derozan who probably leaves at end of this season n Potel is better, can argue that


Yes I'm very happy with Derozan leaving after this year.
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Re: How Come Buford and Gregg Popovich Get a Pass for Blowing the Kawhi Leonard Trade? 

Post#171 » by G R E Y » Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:37 am

NoZoLakers wrote:
GREY 1769 wrote:
NoZoLakers wrote:stop the deng bs n no la wasnt offering ball n Ingram, it was 1 or the other....Deng didnt need to be included, la had cap space, its why deng wasnt included in AD deal

That you think it COULD have happened or didn't need to be included has no bearing on the fact that he parties involved didn't get to where you now think they could/ought to have with respect to Deng. LAL lowballed Spurs thinking they had it in the bag. Two weeks after our season was done #2 was 'finished with his rehab' and sitting in Magic's Dodger seats. Like **** right off to that whole scheme and scam.

Ball OR Ingram?! Oh WOW! What a 'Godfather offer'! Bwahahahahaha! We decided on another offer. We liked it better.

i have no beef with what you accepted....you might have liked better than but it certainly not working out like you would've thought....everyone got what they wanted, tor got a chip, Leonard got another chip n still ended up in la, lakers got Ad n a chip, Spurs ends up with Potel for 3 more yrs

But in order to take a jibe at the Spurs you're ignoring what we DID get -- WHAT WE ASKED FOR, which is NOT what LAL offered.

It's DD's vet presence - sorely needed, DD's scoring - also needed, DD'c cap space coming up - as we have planned, plus Jakob who fits a C need and D need, and Keldon Johnson - also a need. So in your list of everyone got what they wanted, you ignore us to take a shot when we would rather what we have than what LAL offered - BI at now max taking up cap space without adding meaningful win margins, Ball and Hart - no need for them, and Deng's contract - self-expanatory. We are far better off with the deal we made.
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Re: How Come Buford and Gregg Popovich Get a Pass for Blowing the Kawhi Leonard Trade? 

Post#172 » by G R E Y » Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:39 am

Pharmcat wrote:
GREY 1769 wrote:
NoZoLakers wrote:stop the deng bs n no la wasnt offering ball n Ingram, it was 1 or the other....Deng didnt need to be included, la had cap space, its why deng wasnt included in AD deal

That you think it COULD have happened or didn't need to be included has no bearing on the fact that he parties involved didn't get to where you now think they could/ought to have with respect to Deng. LAL lowballed Spurs thinking they had it in the bag. Two weeks after our season was done #2 was 'finished with his rehab' and sitting in Magic's Dodger seats. Like **** right off to that whole scheme and scam.

Ball OR Ingram?! Oh WOW! What a 'Godfather offer'! Bwahahahahaha! We decided on another offer. We liked it better.

ingram is better than anything spurs got from TOR in that trade

And yet he led his team to a worse record than the Spurs' this past season.
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Re: How Come Buford and Gregg Popovich Get a Pass for Blowing the Kawhi Leonard Trade? 

Post#173 » by NoZoLakers » Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:40 am

GREY 1769 wrote:
NoZoLakers wrote:
GREY 1769 wrote:That you think it COULD have happened or didn't need to be included has no bearing on the fact that he parties involved didn't get to where you now think they could/ought to have with respect to Deng. LAL lowballed Spurs thinking they had it in the bag. Two weeks after our season was done #2 was 'finished with his rehab' and sitting in Magic's Dodger seats. Like **** right off to that whole scheme and scam.

Ball OR Ingram?! Oh WOW! What a 'Godfather offer'! Bwahahahahaha! We decided on another offer. We liked it better.

i have no beef with what you accepted....you might have liked better than but it certainly not working out like you would've thought....everyone got what they wanted, tor got a chip, Leonard got another chip n still ended up in la, lakers got Ad n a chip, Spurs ends up with Potel for 3 more yrs

But in order to take a jibe at the Spurs you're ignoring what we DID get -- WHAT WE ASKED FOR, which is NOT what LAL offered.

It's DD's vet presence - sorely needed, DD's scoring - also needed, DD'c cap space coming up - as we have planned, plus Jakob who fits a C need and D need, and Keldon Johnson - also a need. So in your list of everyone got what they wanted, you ignore us to take a shot when we would rather what we have than what LAL offered - BI at now max taking up cap space without adding meaningful win margins, Ball and Hart - no need for them, and Deng's contract - self-expanatory. We are far better off with the deal we made.
jakob is a career backup, i cant argue the all star part with DD but if did your execs not watch any of DD playoffs? if they did they certainly ignored his short comimgs
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Re: How Come Buford and Gregg Popovich Get a Pass for Blowing the Kawhi Leonard Trade? 

Post#174 » by kobe_vs_jordan » Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:40 am

DoctorX wrote:
Pharmcat wrote:
GREY 1769 wrote:That you think it COULD have happened or didn't need to be included has no bearing on the fact that he parties involved didn't get to where you now think they could/ought to have with respect to Deng. LAL lowballed Spurs thinking they had it in the bag. Two weeks after our season was done #2 was 'finished with his rehab' and sitting in Magic's Dodger seats. Like **** right off to that whole scheme and scam.

Ball OR Ingram?! Oh WOW! What a 'Godfather offer'! Bwahahahahaha! We decided on another offer. We liked it better.

ingram is better than anything spurs got from TOR in that trade


Yes the spurs could have had a younger empty stat player in Ingram over the older empty stat player in Derozan. AT the end of the day I'am never going to lose sleep about not getting Ingram. He will never be a top 5 player in this league and thus not worth caring about since Kawhi is a top 5 player arguably top 3 when he wants to play.

Gotta better chance of being a top 5 player than what the spurs got. Guy had a great season for a 22 year old.
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Re: How Come Buford and Gregg Popovich Get a Pass for Blowing the Kawhi Leonard Trade? 

Post#175 » by levon » Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:42 am

GREY 1769 wrote:It's DD's vet presence - sorely needed, DD's scoring - also needed, DD'c cap space coming up - as we have planned, plus Jakob who fits a C need and D need, and Keldon Johnson - also a need. So in your list of everyone got what they wanted, you ignore us to take a shot when we would rather what we have than what LAL offered - BI at now max taking up cap space without adding meaningful win margins, Ball and Hart - no need for them, and Deng's contract - self-expanatory. We are far better off with the deal we made.

This is the biggest example of rose-colored glasses I've ever seen. You're intentionally bringing up fit to diminish the value of BI and Ball as assets. If the rest of the league operated this way, they would consistently get worse talent in the draft because they'd be assessing fit into their lame teams instead of trying to garner value and figure out fit later. The deal was reasonable at the time, but I think it's frankly ridiculous to think it was undeniably the right move in hindsight. I'm not entirely sure you couldn't convince yourself of anything the Spurs do as being the right move, given enough time and creativity.
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Re: How Come Buford and Gregg Popovich Get a Pass for Blowing the Kawhi Leonard Trade? 

Post#176 » by DoctorX » Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:44 am

kobe_vs_jordan wrote:
DoctorX wrote:
Pharmcat wrote:ingram is better than anything spurs got from TOR in that trade


Yes the spurs could have had a younger empty stat player in Ingram over the older empty stat player in Derozan. AT the end of the day I'am never going to lose sleep about not getting Ingram. He will never be a top 5 player in this league and thus not worth caring about since Kawhi is a top 5 player arguably top 3 when he wants to play.

Gotta better chance of being a top 5 player than what the spurs got. Guy had a great season for a 22 year old.


He will never be a top 5 player. If he was the Lakers would not have traded him for Davis.
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Re: How Come Buford and Gregg Popovich Get a Pass for Blowing the Kawhi Leonard Trade? 

Post#177 » by NoZoLakers » Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:45 am

DoctorX wrote:
NoZoLakers wrote:
DoctorX wrote:
:lol: so the Lakers were just going to offer empty stat Ingram for Kawhi or Ball straight up for Kawhi? Wow 2 crappy offers to pick from. That's like offering some one the choice of eating a **** sandwich or drinking acid.
youre right empty stats Derozan who probably leaves at end of this season n Potel is better, can argue that


Yes I'm very happy with Derozan leaving after this year.

the best asset in the Leonard trade and youre happy cause hes leaving :lol:
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Re: How Come Buford and Gregg Popovich Get a Pass for Blowing the Kawhi Leonard Trade? 

Post#178 » by NoZoLakers » Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:47 am

DoctorX wrote:
kobe_vs_jordan wrote:
DoctorX wrote:
Yes the spurs could have had a younger empty stat player in Ingram over the older empty stat player in Derozan. AT the end of the day I'am never going to lose sleep about not getting Ingram. He will never be a top 5 player in this league and thus not worth caring about since Kawhi is a top 5 player arguably top 3 when he wants to play.

Gotta better chance of being a top 5 player than what the spurs got. Guy had a great season for a 22 year old.


He will never be a top 5 player. If he was the Lakers would not have traded him for Davis.

lakers traded him for AD cause AD is already a top 5 player, doesn't mean Ingram won't be top 5 or 10 someday
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Re: How Come Buford and Gregg Popovich Get a Pass for Blowing the Kawhi Leonard Trade? 

Post#179 » by kobe_vs_jordan » Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:48 am

DoctorX wrote:
kobe_vs_jordan wrote:
DoctorX wrote:
Yes the spurs could have had a younger empty stat player in Ingram over the older empty stat player in Derozan. AT the end of the day I'am never going to lose sleep about not getting Ingram. He will never be a top 5 player in this league and thus not worth caring about since Kawhi is a top 5 player arguably top 3 when he wants to play.

Gotta better chance of being a top 5 player than what the spurs got. Guy had a great season for a 22 year old.


He will never be a top 5 player. If he was the Lakers would not have traded him for Davis.

Makes no sense. You wouldn’t trade a guy with too 5 potential for a guy who is top 5 now with lebron James on your team?

Lakers wouldn’t trade Ingram for DD and Poelt. But AD or Kawhi is a no brainer
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Re: How Come Buford and Gregg Popovich Get a Pass for Blowing the Kawhi Leonard Trade? 

Post#180 » by G R E Y » Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:48 am

levon wrote:
GREY 1769 wrote:
levon wrote:Also Spurs fans, you don't get to frame this as the Laker fans being greedy when there's been multiple reports of Pop reaching out to other front offices and urging them not to make a deal with the Lakers. Let's just say very few Laker fans are lamenting Pop's career going out with a whimper in perpetual 9th seed fashion.

Pray tell, what were the Lakers' fortunes before LBJ decided to go there after your big name players left the game? And for how long? I'd say Spurs are faring far better in our transition period.

The Pau trade was fair game to rail against.

The AD trade was fair to give prudent advice about. NOP got a better package in waiting after following Pop's advice in doing so - it was sought and given and NOP benefited from it.

It's not about Pop's career, which again like others you're assigning an arbitrary end point to, but about how you navigate through the sweet years and the challenging years. If there's no system of values and guiding principles in place, you get perpetual mediocrity for years. We've missed the playoffs once in 22 years and have a young group more ready to take on bigger roles. With cap space coming up - read: no Deng. lol

Weird how this revisit has emerged after the DeMar to LAL rumours fizzled...

Why exactly was the Pau trade fair game to rail against? Is whining about the prudent moves of your competition somehow an admirable quality? It's entirely his prerogative to do whatever he wants. He's earned more than that right. You can't write the story of basketball without Pop. He's indelibly a part of my own childhood.

But also expect to catch some flack from fans of the opposing organization if you're consistently trying to sabotage them, while not being competitive yourself. There's going to be some kicking while the Spurs are down from Lakers fans. It's just how this works, man. It's how it worked when the Lakers were down too. Folks in here acting like the jeering at Pop is just in a vacuum.

RE: Pau - because the Lakers got Pau for a crap collection of an offer - wait for it - Kwame Brown, Crittenton, McKie and rights to Marc. Please PLEASE don't tell me this was in any way a fair offer. And it's the kind of offer that's probably used to getting the better player back, and probably why people are still upset that PATFO didn't take LAL up on their 'Godfather offer' when it was really more like the 'Fredo offer' wasn't it...

Small market Spurs not being competitive in making the playoffs 22 consecutive years? It's kind of rich when I look at LAL prior to LBJ deciding to go there...
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