Will we ever see an organic champion again?

[Pablo Escobar]

Lebron started the trend. It isn't fair that only he can stack the deck without ridicule, but the minute other players do it they get flamed.

[Jedi32]

Folks whine about stars wanting out or forcing their way out, but I haven't heard one team get dragged for trading a player that doesn't want to leave. I've heard no one say "Man that's cold how the nets did Levert" or "that's cold how the 6ers were willing to trade Simmons at the drop of a dime".

[wutevahung]

the hell? are we just pretending like Warriors didn't win in 15? Spurs in 13? and how is Raptors in 19 not "organic"? where the majority of their players had been there for 2-3 years, with 2 key role players developed from G league? and organic means nothing, it's just something you have in your mind to demean other organization's championships.

[dhsilv2]

Lebron started this BS. It's really all his fault. Can't wait for this fraud to retire.

Yes Lebron started the big 3 in boston

You do realize Wilt and Kareem wanted out in the 60s and 70s right?

And then many examples after that?

KD is the only guy I can recall who joined a prime MVP and has now played with THREE mvps in THEIR PRIME

Moses Malone forced his way to the 76ers to team up with Dr J. Sure he didn't move as much in his prime, but lets not act like MVP level guys haven't teamed up. Wilt forced his way to join West...sure west never won an mvp but he was right there with anyone contending for MVPs year after year.

[JXL]

Kobe Bryant was the very last one.

I thought it was Dirk.

[Harry Garris]

Seriously. The NBA is completely rooted in my opinion.

The players clearly have all the power. A top 5 player can now force his out of while contracted for a pile of steaming ****.

Nobody wants to preserve through anything it seems like and they’d rather force their way to go play with LeBron, KD etc.

Does anyone actually find this **** entertaining?

I don't love superteams forming in one offseason, but I hate dynasty teams way more. It makes for a boring and uncompetitive league when one team is favored to win the finals 5 or 6 years in a row. Player movement can be annoying but the league was so much less competitive back in the day.

Hell the Lakers, Celtics, Bulls, Pistons, and Rockets won every single championship for almost 20 straight years during the 80s and 90s. That's two straight decades where the majority of the league had absolutely zero chance of winning a title. Is that the NBA you'd prefer? Because that's what we had before player movement.

No thanks - current NBA system is flawed but it's way better than knowing one team is going to be in the finals for 5 or 6 straight years and there's nothing any other team can do about it.

[Benedict_Boozer]

Multiple teams having two stars each was great - that’s what it should be, ironically Kawhi is the one who kept it that way by going to the LAC and not the LAL.

Durant needs to have more confidence in himself, guy doesn’t need to always play with an MVP and stacked roster to win a title. It’s ridiculous he killed parity with GSW and now does it again in BKN.

[Marrrcuss]

I think we need one more person to whine and say LeBron started it....

[EArl]

Seriously. The NBA is completely rooted in my opinion.

The players clearly have all the power. A top 5 player can now force his out of while contracted for a pile of steaming ****.

Nobody wants to preserve through anything it seems like and they’d rather force their way to go play with LeBron, KD etc.

Does anyone actually find this **** entertaining?

There's no such thing.

[Curmudgeon]

The real question is whether or not there will ever be a offseason again where less than 40% of the players change teams. There are only a handful of team brands that matter any more. It's the individual player brands that matter, so the league doesn't give a rat's butt about "organic champions."

[Egg Nog]

Lebron started this BS. It's really all his fault. Can't wait for this fraud to retire.

LeBron didn't start it. He got the idea after losing to Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, and Ray Allen on their way to a title in their first season together.

...not that the 2008 Celtics were the first ones to do it...it's happened many times in NBA history.

Again, LBJ was 26 when he started that. Pierce was 30, Garnett 31, Allen 32 in their first season together in Boston. It's very much different, Garnett and Allen were both past his prime, PP was close to past his prime.

I don't see a distinction here at all. When that team was assembled, Pierce and KG were still very close to prime, Ray Allen had just posted the highest scoring numbers of his career. It's three hugely talented players being assembled in a single off-season and immediately winning a title (with expectations to match).

[FlatearthZorro]

LeBron didn't start it. He got the idea after losing to Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, and Ray Allen on their way to a title in their first season together.

...not that the 2008 Celtics were the first ones to do it...it's happened many times in NBA history.

Again, LBJ was 26 when he started that. Pierce was 30, Garnett 31, Allen 32 in their first season together in Boston. It's very much different, Garnett and Allen were both past his prime, PP was close to past his prime.

I don't see a distinction here at all. When that team was assembled, Pierce and KG were still very close to prime, Ray Allen had just posted the highest scoring numbers of his career. It's three hugely talented players being assembled in a single off-season and immediately winning a title (with expectations to match).

The distinction is that these guys were past their primes, all of them HOFers playing on low quality teams for most of their careers. LBJ did what he did much earlier, which set a bad example. Nobdy would say anything about James if he joined a superteam at the age of 30-31, I wouldn't at least. If Pierce/Allen/KG joined forces ~26-27 they would've won multiple championships.

[Lalouie]

Seriously. The NBA is completely rooted in my opinion.

The players clearly have all the power. A top 5 player can now force his out of while contracted for a pile of steaming ****.

Nobody wants to preserve through anything it seems like and they’d rather force their way to go play with LeBron, KD etc.

Does anyone actually find this **** entertaining?

what we're talking about are the superstars. them who ain't get moved all the time, so we're just talking superstars and not all superstars move.

i expect giannis, doncic, and lillard to stay. i think curry will stay. i don't think the growing trend is for superstars to move as much as them staying. i also don't think any player will wield as much power as lebron/klutch, so the trend will abate once he retires

but you also have to define "organic". i define organic as organizational moves because it is in the nature the sports teams to be ever changing. i define NOT organic as being what lebron did at miami cavs and lakers,,,and what kyrie/harden/kd have done. essentially THAT IS IT! gsw has been essentially organic in spite of the addition of kd. to classify them in the same breath with lebron's team would be woefully misrepresnting them. the spur teams were organic. toronto is a tougher nut to define. they only added the one player - there was no collusion of several players to flex their muscle which i think is the core of your meaning

[brutalitops]

All started with the 08 celtics trading for KG defensive player or the year and all NBA player

Organic champion? GTFO, good teams use assets and pull to get pieces to win, Marion/Chandler isnt heading to Dallas without Nowtizki

[robbie84]

Luka, Giannis or Tatum+Brown.

[Def Leppard]

Were the Lakers not organic last year? I thought they were a middle-of-the-pact team with aging role players/left-overs like Rondo, Howard, Green and Cousins.

Funny how the goal posts change so often.

Hahahahahhahahahja

Sent from my SM-G981W using RealGM mobile app

[BayWarrior]

The last "organic champion" was the 14/15 Golden State Warriors. That was only 6 years ago so its very possible we will see it again. Organic to me means not trading for a Superstar to get you there. Every team has Free Agents and thet GS team had David Lee, Iggy and Bogut. All of those players were stars by all means at one time but never superstars.

[LakersNavy]

I think you guys are conflating separate issues. LeBron didn't force his way out of any team. He was a free agent every single time he left. Please don't conflate what LeBron did with what Anthony Davis, Kyrie and Harden have done which is behave poorly and complain until they got what they wanted.