Does it bother you that NBA Champions is referred as 'World Champions"?

[tribulations]

I mean its the biggest and best league in the world, and has a largely international flavour.

I can see why some people find it very slightly contentious, but seems like mere semantics to me (and I'm not American).

[JujitsuFlip]

I got a question though. Could the best current European team beat the worst NBA team?

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/boxscore/2010-10-07/LA-Lakers-at-FC-Barcelona-Regal/101915

Looks like the NBA champ lost against the Euroleague champ...oopsss...BTW with NBA rules... any more doubts?

Watch on YouTube

throwback to the last time the NBA champion played against the Euroleague champion

unsurprisingly the NBA hasn't done it since

This was a preseason game lolol

[Inspektor1312]

It's just typical american bull, no one should really care. They can call them champions of the universe if it strokes their egos that much.

[turnmeup88]

No one is arguing that NBA has strongets teams or that NBA champion isnt a strongest team, but to be world champions, you need to beat opponents and representatives from the entire world, NBA is not world championship, so their champions arent world champions and thats facs.

To be World Champions in theory, you would need to win a tournament where all teams one way or another have access to play.

The World Cup has qualifiers for every nation in the World.
The Winner of the Champions League, is by far the best team in the world outside of Europe, however they are only named World Champions if they win the world championships which includes the winners of other continents.

But when you talk national teams, you're talking about teams with restrictions to who can play for the teams. Thus why nobody puts these international (national) teams on the same level as professional teams. They're too limiting. And while maybe a us national team would win the nba title. It makes no sense to chose a "world" champion when each team can't pull players from the whole world.

No when I talk national teams there is no restrictions on who can play.

Every national team in the world can qualify for the World Championships. Once again I am not saying that there are clubs out there better than NBA teams, but let's say Real Madrid gets injected with a ton of money (from Middle East or whatever). Find a way to keep Doncic, get the majority of the spanish national team and splurge 100m a season for Morant, Zion, and Ayton.

Now that team would be at an NBA level, but because the NBA is closed league they would not even be on the road to an NBA championship. So that championship cannot be called the WORLD championship by definition...

[dhsilv2]

Bother is not the word but it is just classic USA arrogance with their patriotism and stuff.

With that being said, let's make a comparison with a sport that it's more global than basketball as in football (soccer for USA) and mentioning something that some posters have been arguing why the NBA champion is the World Champion.

- 95% (at least) of the best players in the world play on clubs in Europe and most of the time on teams that play the UEFA Champions League or UEFA Europa League. Is the champion of the UCL or UEL the champion of the world? No. They need to play the FIFA Club World Cup tournament against the champions of Asia/Oceania, North and Central America, South America and Africa. 99% of the time European teams that play in the tournament have the best players BY FAR, usually not a single player from any of the other clubs in that tournament would make the roster on any competitive team that plays on the UCL but still, they need to play and prove that they are better, and sometimes, not so often, but sometimes, there are surprises and mainly the South American team upsets the European team.

So yes, it's arrogant and self-centric to call the NBA champion the 'World Champion'. And I do firmly believe that any NBA team who wins a championship is going to beat the champion of the Euroleague but if played to the best of 1 as they play in the FIFA Club World Cup there could be an upset every 'x' years.

In soccer (the European name for the sport that the US uses because of) is there a league that has 50 or less (less is WAY better) teams, fixed teams, no changes, that has 80-90% of the best players in the world? And they pay far and away the best money for scrubs, let alone good players? No risk of a team sucking getting put in a lower league or something.

Hm, champions league says hello. Winning that gives far better excuse to call yourself world champ, but they arent doing that, they call themselves Euro champs however, cause thats who they are.

Beg my ignorance but it's a league of the same teams who play eachother and not others and the teams never change? Cause otherwise....no

[dhsilv2]

To be World Champions in theory, you would need to win a tournament where all teams one way or another have access to play.

The World Cup has qualifiers for every nation in the World.
The Winner of the Champions League, is by far the best team in the world outside of Europe, however they are only named World Champions if they win the world championships which includes the winners of other continents.

But when you talk national teams, you're talking about teams with restrictions to who can play for the teams. Thus why nobody puts these international (national) teams on the same level as professional teams. They're too limiting. And while maybe a us national team would win the nba title. It makes no sense to chose a "world" champion when each team can't pull players from the whole world.

No when I talk national teams there is no restrictions on who can play.

Every national team in the world can qualify for the World Championships. Once again I am not saying that there are clubs out there better than NBA teams, but let's say Real Madrid gets injected with a ton of money (from Middle East or whatever). Find a way to keep Doncic, get the majority of the spanish national team and splurge 100m a season for Morant, Zion, and Ayton.

Now that team would be at an NBA level, but because the NBA is closed league they would not even be on the road to an NBA championship. So that championship cannot be called the WORLD championship by definition...

As long as a team is called a "club" I can't really respect it as a professional organization. But...you CANNOT have a world champion professional title UNLESS it is a CLOSED LEAGUE! A CLOSED LEAGUE is an absolute 100% requirement!

Now if there were a situation where another league had a competitive team as you've mention...that would be interesting. We of course don't have anything like that. I'd really wonder what those guys would think because it would be really weird to take the money over competing to be the best by playing in the best league.

[The Moose]

I got a question though. Could the best current European team beat the worst NBA team?

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/boxscore/2010-10-07/LA-Lakers-at-FC-Barcelona-Regal/101915

Looks like the NBA champ lost against the Euroleague champ...oopsss...BTW with NBA rules... any more doubts?

Watch on YouTube

throwback to the last time the NBA champion played against the Euroleague champion

unsurprisingly the NBA hasn't done it since

This was a preseason game lolol

yeah?
sort of goes without saying they didn't play a regular season game considering they aren't in the same league.

[Richard4444]

It doesn't bother me but it's unnecessary in American football because it has next to no global presence. But in the NBA and MLB it's more accurate to say they are world champions because they are global sports, it's just that all the best international players from around the world play in a league that is centralized to North America.

I get what you are saying but i wouldn't call baseball a global sports yet, they are far from it imo. I can't even name 1 European country that has baseball even as a Top 10 sport.

Baseball isn't very popular in Europe or Africa but it's played pretty much everywhere else in the world. It's very popular in east Asia and central and south America. If you want to say a global sport has to be popular everywhere in the world... then there's only one truly global sport.

I am from Brazil.

Please, explain to me what is that base... thing you guys are talking about...

[UcanUwill]

In soccer (the European name for the sport that the US uses because of) is there a league that has 50 or less (less is WAY better) teams, fixed teams, no changes, that has 80-90% of the best players in the world? And they pay far and away the best money for scrubs, let alone good players? No risk of a team sucking getting put in a lower league or something.

Hm, champions league says hello. Winning that gives far better excuse to call yourself world champ, but they arent doing that, they call themselves Euro champs however, cause thats who they are.

Beg my ignorance but it's a league of the same teams who play eachother and not others and the teams never change? Cause otherwise....no

Its a tournament, where any team from Europe can make it, if they perform well domestically and win qualification. How is league being closed helps your argument, if anythings thats more of the reason why you cant call it world championship, beside the fact that its not world championship and you arguing against something thats factual.

[JujitsuFlip]

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/boxscore/2010-10-07/LA-Lakers-at-FC-Barcelona-Regal/101915

Looks like the NBA champ lost against the Euroleague champ...oopsss...BTW with NBA rules... any more doubts?

Watch on YouTube

throwback to the last time the NBA champion played against the Euroleague champion

unsurprisingly the NBA hasn't done it since

This was a preseason game lolol

yeah?
sort of goes without saying they didn't play a regular season game considering they aren't in the same league.

I'm sure Kobe playing 24 minutes in a preseason exhibition game is comparable to his 38 MPG in the regular season that year, or his 40 MPG in the playoffs that year, or his 41 MPG in the Finals that year.

But hey, you all do you. I'm sure a single exhibition game on foreign soil is comparable to a 7 game NBA series, LOL

[UcanUwill]

This was a preseason game lolol

yeah?
sort of goes without saying they didn't play a regular season game considering they aren't in the same league.

I'm sure Kobe playing 24 minutes in a preseason exhibition game is comparable to his 38 MPG in the regular season that year, or his 40 MPG in the playoffs that year, or his 41 MPG in the Finals that year.

But hey, you all do you. I'm sure a single exhibition game on foreign soil is comparable to a 7 game NBA series, LOL

No doubt Lakers would win 7 game series, but they lost that game and thats facts. You guys will spin and ignore any fact to prove your point. NBA champions are NBA champions and not world champions, is being NBA champion not enough, thats really pathetic if you ask me, proclaim a title to yourself thats not even true to boast your already over inflated, globally shamed ego?

I remember in 2011 before I even joined RealGM, I was on Raptors forum, and a Dallas Mavericks lurker fan made a banner for himself, Mavericks world champions 2011, and when I said - you know its stupid to call NBA champion - World champion, and he basically said, do not ruin this for me, I waited all my life for Mavs to win. Its not enough for these people just to be a champion of strongest, most popular basketball league in the world, no... as we can see it here, they will go out of their way to change the definition itself, logic and fact itself, just so they would be overlords of the world

Well, good, keep calling yourselfs that, but most people outside north america that I know of, think its stupid, and they dont aknowledge NBA winners as world champions, so whats it good for, you are just empowering the negative american stereotype and thats it, ''world'' champs.

Sorry for being harsh, but I honestly stunned seing some ''arguments'' here.

[mowcrowbar]

But it is 100% a global league. Just because they don't play games all over the world doesn't make it not a global league. And for a while the league was trying to play games outside the states. It's just been difficult to do with travel logistics.

It's not a global league because there are other leagues in the world that are not included. Sure the NBA has a global presence, but it doesn't involve any other leagues like the CBA, Euroleague, etc... In soccer (football) each nation has a league and winners from that league is represented in something called a "Champions League" - a mix of teams from different nations. The winner from that league is called the Asian champions or European champions, etc...

Why would they include other leagues? The NBA is a global organization that puts the best players into their company. It would make no sense to "include" other leagues...the idea is to create a truly global LEAGUE.

If the best team from the NBA faces the best team from the Euroleague, Asian league and other leagues and wins; then they would be the world champions. There’s a possibility that the best Euro team could beat the best NBA team.

[ACMFFL]

But when you talk national teams, you're talking about teams with restrictions to who can play for the teams. Thus why nobody puts these international (national) teams on the same level as professional teams. They're too limiting. And while maybe a us national team would win the nba title. It makes no sense to chose a "world" champion when each team can't pull players from the whole world.

No when I talk national teams there is no restrictions on who can play.

Every national team in the world can qualify for the World Championships. Once again I am not saying that there are clubs out there better than NBA teams, but let's say Real Madrid gets injected with a ton of money (from Middle East or whatever). Find a way to keep Doncic, get the majority of the spanish national team and splurge 100m a season for Morant, Zion, and Ayton.

Now that team would be at an NBA level, but because the NBA is closed league they would not even be on the road to an NBA championship. So that championship cannot be called the WORLD championship by definition...

As long as a team is called a "club" I can't really respect it as a professional organization. But...you CANNOT have a world champion professional title UNLESS it is a CLOSED LEAGUE! A CLOSED LEAGUE is an absolute 100% requirement!

Now if there were a situation where another league had a competitive team as you've mention...that would be interesting. We of course don't have anything like that. I'd really wonder what those guys would think because it would be really weird to take the money over competing to be the best by playing in the best league.

Why is it an absolute requirement? Just because clubs have to earn their spot? By this logic the winner of the FIFA Club World Cup cannot claim the title of world champion.

[dhsilv2]

Hm, champions league says hello. Winning that gives far better excuse to call yourself world champ, but they arent doing that, they call themselves Euro champs however, cause thats who they are.

Beg my ignorance but it's a league of the same teams who play eachother and not others and the teams never change? Cause otherwise....no

Its a tournament, where any team from Europe can make it, if they perform well domestically and win qualification. How is league being closed helps your argument, if anythings thats more of the reason why you cant call it world championship, beside the fact that its not world championship and you arguing against something thats factual.

I'm just so completely lost on what you're wanting here.

A tournament? That already doesn't count. Unless you're playing the same level of competition to make the tournament then it's just stupid. You couldn't have the G league champion make a playoff with the NBA champion for example.

The nba is a world organization, with the absolute best players around the world in it. And by having a closed system it assures that the absolute best players MUST compete in the league to compete at that highest level. if you have some open system with lesser organizations able to compete, you water down the whole system and take away any semblance of having a real world championship. We already have MANY fans concerned that the NBA having 30 teams is too many. The less teams involved and the higher the level of competition to MAKE the league as a player, the better!

This isn't the stupid Olympics or world championships where our stupid boarders define where player can play. This is about the best teams build from the entire world who play for money at a professional level. What really makes the NBA continue to grow and make sense is that fans are increasingly NOT tribal. We're not fans of teams because we live near the city they play in but because we like the players or the coaches or whatever else. I for example was a HUGE Tim Duncan fan living 1,200 miles (1,900 KM) from the spurs (which is further than say London to Madrid). San Antonio is every bit as foreign to me as an american as Tokyo minus the language barriers. Two cities I'll likely never go to. So again where teams play is just an annoyance to fans who live in different time zones (sometimes big ones).

Without a closed system and without a real playoff with long series (at least best of 3 but really best of 5 should be seen as an absolute min), you can't be a world champion, at least in basketball...some sports might lend themselves to less games..

[dhsilv2]

No when I talk national teams there is no restrictions on who can play.

Every national team in the world can qualify for the World Championships. Once again I am not saying that there are clubs out there better than NBA teams, but let's say Real Madrid gets injected with a ton of money (from Middle East or whatever). Find a way to keep Doncic, get the majority of the spanish national team and splurge 100m a season for Morant, Zion, and Ayton.

Now that team would be at an NBA level, but because the NBA is closed league they would not even be on the road to an NBA championship. So that championship cannot be called the WORLD championship by definition...

As long as a team is called a "club" I can't really respect it as a professional organization. But...you CANNOT have a world champion professional title UNLESS it is a CLOSED LEAGUE! A CLOSED LEAGUE is an absolute 100% requirement!

Now if there were a situation where another league had a competitive team as you've mention...that would be interesting. We of course don't have anything like that. I'd really wonder what those guys would think because it would be really weird to take the money over competing to be the best by playing in the best league.

Why is it an absolute requirement? Just because clubs have to earn their spot? By this logic the winner of the FIFA Club World Cup cannot claim the title of world champion.

Isn't the world cup a tourney where teams are made up of players from just one nation? That's not a professional league or tournament. So yeah, of course you couldn't call that a real world champion PROFESSIONAL TEAM! This isn't 1,000 years ago where these stupid made up lines controlled where people lived and worked. We've moved past that crap functionally.

[UcanUwill]

Beg my ignorance but it's a league of the same teams who play eachother and not others and the teams never change? Cause otherwise....no

Its a tournament, where any team from Europe can make it, if they perform well domestically and win qualification. How is league being closed helps your argument, if anythings thats more of the reason why you cant call it world championship, beside the fact that its not world championship and you arguing against something thats factual.

I'm just so completely lost on what you're wanting here.

A tournament? That already doesn't count. Unless you're playing the same level of competition to make the tournament then it's just stupid. You couldn't have the G league champion make a playoff with the NBA champion for example.

The nba is a world organization, with the absolute best players around the world in it. And by having a closed system it assures that the absolute best players MUST compete in the league to compete at that highest level. if you have some open system with lesser organizations able to compete, you water down the whole system and take away any semblance of having a real world championship. We already have MANY fans concerned that the NBA having 30 teams is too many. The less teams involved and the higher the level of competition to MAKE the league as a player, the better!

This isn't the stupid Olympics or world championships where our stupid boarders define where player can play. This is about the best teams build from the entire world who play for money at a professional level. What really makes the NBA continue to grow and make sense is that fans are increasingly NOT tribal. We're not fans of teams because we live near the city they play in but because we like the players or the coaches or whatever else. I for example was a HUGE Tim Duncan fan living 1,200 miles (1,900 KM) from the spurs (which is further than say London to Madrid). San Antonio is every bit as foreign to me as an american as Tokyo minus the language barriers. Two cities I'll likely never go to. So again where teams play is just an annoyance to fans who live in different time zones (sometimes big ones).

Without a closed system and without a real playoff with long series (at least best of 3 but really best of 5 should be seen as an absolute min), you can't be a world champion, at least in basketball...some sports might lend themselves to less games..

Well, sorry, thats what every world championsip is, a tournament that anyone from the world at least innitialy had a chance to make. To some those cahnces almost guarantee and to some its astronomically low, but thats what world championship mean, where everyone has team that represents them, but you can go to Spanish or Greek and explain how one of NBA teams represent them, cause location they play in doesnt matter, wonder will it work.

Sorrry my man, I love ya, but everything you wrote in this thread is either wrong or backwards. No, NBA being closed league does not guarantee best players to be in it, its the opposite. It just works RIGHT NOW cause club basketball outside US is very niche, so no one has interest or need or popularity to compete with NBA teams for best players in the world. But if Basketball becomes more than niche in rish countries and they start matching NBA salaries to star players, how will being closed league help you?

Several years ago Manchester City and Paris sait Germain were average teams, what if Euros had this stupid closed league rule, they would have excluded those teams in their ultimate European league, but then oil bilionaires buy those team, buyout lots of best players in the world, make ManCity and PSG top 5 teams in the world, but crap, they wouldnt be in ultimate Euro league cause it is closed league now. No, we dont do stupid thing like closed league when we are talking about global or continental titles, closed league is antitesis of that.

[ACMFFL]

As long as a team is called a "club" I can't really respect it as a professional organization. But...you CANNOT have a world champion professional title UNLESS it is a CLOSED LEAGUE! A CLOSED LEAGUE is an absolute 100% requirement!

Now if there were a situation where another league had a competitive team as you've mention...that would be interesting. We of course don't have anything like that. I'd really wonder what those guys would think because it would be really weird to take the money over competing to be the best by playing in the best league.

Why is it an absolute requirement? Just because clubs have to earn their spot? By this logic the winner of the FIFA Club World Cup cannot claim the title of world champion.

Isn't the world cup a tourney where teams are made up of players from just one nation? That's not a professional league or tournament. So yeah, of course you couldn't call that a real world champion PROFESSIONAL TEAM! This isn't 1,000 years ago where these stupid made up lines controlled where people lived and worked. We've moved past that crap functionally.

Ehm..I was talking about the CLUB World Cup, not the World Cup contested by national teams.

[dhsilv2]

It's not a global league because there are other leagues in the world that are not included. Sure the NBA has a global presence, but it doesn't involve any other leagues like the CBA, Euroleague, etc... In soccer (football) each nation has a league and winners from that league is represented in something called a "Champions League" - a mix of teams from different nations. The winner from that league is called the Asian champions or European champions, etc...

Why would they include other leagues? The NBA is a global organization that puts the best players into their company. It would make no sense to "include" other leagues...the idea is to create a truly global LEAGUE.

If the best team from the NBA faces the best team from the Euroleague, Asian league and other leagues and wins; then they would be the world champions. There’s a possibility that the best Euro team could beat the best NBA team.

There really isn't. In a best of 7 format there might be a team or two that could beat the worst nba team due to them being loaded with prospects vs players ready to play at the pro level, but that's about it. Any team with the talent to compete against the NBA is going to be in the NBA. What competitive basketball player would want to compete in a league where they'll never know how they stand against the best in the world? This goes back again to why the NBA system works. if you want to compete you HAVE to be in the NBA. You have to go through a draft where you don't get control of where you play.

[dhsilv2]

Why is it an absolute requirement? Just because clubs have to earn their spot? By this logic the winner of the FIFA Club World Cup cannot claim the title of world champion.

Isn't the world cup a tourney where teams are made up of players from just one nation? That's not a professional league or tournament. So yeah, of course you couldn't call that a real world champion PROFESSIONAL TEAM! This isn't 1,000 years ago where these stupid made up lines controlled where people lived and worked. We've moved past that crap functionally.

Ehm..I was talking about the CLUB World Cup, not the World Cup contested by national teams.

Didn't know that was a thing. I mean as long as it's a proper best of 5 or more games, then I guess that's fine. As long as there isn't a league where the top 10 teams should all be in it and only 1 makes it of course. But I wasn't even aware of this existing so you'd have to explain it to me.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

This is a really stupid thing to get upset about. It doesn't make me mad when people say the Lakers are World champions. But welcome to the new world, where everything is an argument, everything gets broken down and analyzed and turned into an absolute.