2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 3)

[yoyoboy]

So is it fair to say Sengun is already the 4th most talented passing big in the league after Jokic, Draymond, and Giannis?

[LBJKB24MJ23]

so is Jalen Suggs another Marcus Smart? started out as a defensive stud and letting his offensive game grow through the years.

Smart was #6 in his draft so I mean both are lottery level talent.

[LoveMyRaps]

Mobfather is back plays out and he’s the runaway rookie of the year.

lol

[QPR]

Need a separate rookie thread for Raps fans so the rest of us can enjoy this one.

[UcanUwill]

so is Jalen Suggs another Marcus Smart? started out as a defensive stud and letting his offensive game grow through the years.

Smart was #6 in his draft so I mean both are lottery level talent.

I sure hope Suggs will be better offensively than Marcus Smart

[thelead]

I posted this on the magic board as we were discussing Suggs offensive struggles:

The top 10 rookie guards are struggling HARD to score efficiently. Here are their splits:
Cade: 33/24/87
Green: 38/28/81
Suggs: 34/25/77
Giddy: 40/28/65
Kuminga: 38/8/62 (listed as a PF... but he's a combo SF/SG to me)
Davion: 37/27/61
Ziare: 33/25/67

The true combo forwards/bigs are fairing MUCH better so far in scoring efficiency:
Franz: 43/36/79
Barnes: 49/26/73
Mobley: 49/31/77

I'm taking some liberties with how I view Kuminga but otherwise, I find the splits interesting.

[UcanUwill]

I posted this on the magic board as we were discussing Suggs offensive struggles:

The top 10 rookie guards are struggling HARD to score efficiently. Here are their splits:
Cade: 33/24/87
Green: 38/28/81
Suggs: 34/25/77
Giddy: 40/28/65
Kuminga: 38/8/62 (listed as a PF... but he's a combo SF/SG to me)
Davion: 37/27/61
Ziare: 33/25/67

The true combo forwards/bigs are fairing MUCH better so far in scoring efficiency:
Franz: 43/36/79
Barnes: 49/26/73
Mobley: 49/31/77

I'm taking some liberties with how I view Kuminga but otherwise, I find the splits interesting.

I think in general most rookies are never NBA ready. I mean NBA teams play them anyway cause league rewards player development, and most teams with top rookies arent in contention, but most rookies, even good ones are not net positives. I think Mobley is NBA ready, Sengun a bit, kid already won mens league MVP, Barnes is kinda ready, Duarte is ready, hes an old rook, thats about it.

I wrote in the past few days how any top prospect can bust really, cause watching someone like Victor Wembanyama being not top Euro league caliber at all, makes you realize how different and tougher top Mens basketball is, also makes me realize that probably no NBA prospects are NBA material until they actually play in the league and until it clicks for them. NBA takes the most prodigy of prodigy prospects in the world, so a lot of them click after facing and practicing with the best of the best, but it still takes time almost always.

I wouldnt be worried about Suggs yet at all, whatsoever. Sure, I have seen young players where after few plays I knew these guys cant play and will be busts, some players are just fatally dont belong, but those are rare, and Suggs defeinitely not one of them.

[zaymon]

Evan Mobley is looking great, Cavs got a good one. Suggs is struggling on offense, but as pointed out almost every guard from this class is. Nobody mentions he is in 93 rd percentile as a p&r defender, and not among rookies but all players. That alone should put him in conversation among best rookies so far.
Wagner slowed down a little after Anthony rolled his ankle but thats understandable, we have no legit ball handlers right now to setup our offense. I would say Wagner and Barnes are on similar level after Mobley.

[anotherhomer]

Evan has already mastered the off-ball defense
Something that's the hardest to do for a big, and take years to learn

And is already a legit DPOY candidate this year.....

one of our writers was a very strong advocate for Evan Mobley even at#2

Barnes with 17pts, 7 reb, 4 dimes, 2 steals, 1 blk on 5/9 shooting.

Watched this game. He wasn’t bad. Tried hard. If I’m being honest, I see him as the glue guy on a good team some day. Guy that does a little bit if everything. Good lock room guy. Team defense is bad.

9-11 team, 7-11 when he plays. He’s not the difference between winning or losing or particularly positive as a player. Looks lost a lot. Second worst on numbers tonight of the starters.

He’s good for a rookie and has exceeded expectations on offense and not really been much on defense, but he’s not at all a difference maker to this point. He’s just a dude. That’s not a knock as a rookie

Mobley is clearly the best in the draft and it's not close, but I think Barnes has Superstar potential in him if all goes right (aiming for the stars), if he doesn't reach those lofty peaks he's a really good bet for All Star status at least. (he has great size and fluid mobility, it just will depend on his jumpshot and handle)

He rebounds at an elite level for his position, scores efficiently and in bulk, is a good playmaker. It's just that Mobley's defense is light years ahead of the rest of the draft class.

[NRSV]

Raptors fan wilding thinking barnes and Mobley remotely on the same tier. As on par for them. Mobley is 10 times the defender and has a much better touch and skill around the rim.

Pretty much. I watched the Cavs last night. Mobley is basically defensively perfect and anchoring. Has eyes in the back of his head. The on/off numbers are gonna be crazy by the end of the season. He’s also opening up his offensive game. Driving, shooting 3s. He’s got HOF written all over him.

[JonFromVA]

Raptors fan wilding thinking barnes and Mobley remotely on the same tier. As on par for them. Mobley is 10 times the defender and has a much better touch and skill around the rim.

Pretty much. I watched the Cavs last night. Mobley is basically defensively perfect and anchoring. Has eyes in the back of his head. The on/off numbers are gonna be crazy by the end of the season. He’s also opening up his offensive game. Driving, shooting 3s. He’s got HOF written all over him.

I'm surprised when someone scores on Evan ... it does happen, opponents haven't given up challenging him or driving in to his area but it's a very strange feeling for a Cavs fan that's used to more of a revolving door defense.

It may very well change how teams think about defense because clearly Allen+Mobley is much harder to scheme against than just one or the other. You can't just draw one out to the perimeter and go to work on someone like a Kevin Love

[The-Power]

Kuminga: 38/8/62 (listed as a PF... but he's a combo SF/SG to me)

I'm taking some liberties with how I view Kuminga but otherwise, I find the splits interesting.

Just a quick note: Kuminga is a 4/5 like Draymond Green, and not a 2/3 at all.

[HiRez]

Rookie Tracker through Nov. 27.

[nikster]

Rockets get 2 wins with Green missing one game and only playing 10 min in the other...

[yoyoboy]

Team Defensive Rating with Player On-Court:

Mobley: 99.5
Draymond: 101.0
Giannis: 99.0
George: 103.0
Turner: 101.2
Gobert: 102.9
Jokic: 98.9
Adebayo: 101.0
Embiid: 102.3
Horford: 102.8

Defensive On-Off:

Mobley: -9.0
Draymond: +5.6
Giannis: -14.9
George: +8.2
Turner: -9.4
Gobert: +0.9
Jokic: -15.7
Adebayo: -4.8
Embiid: -7.3
Horford: -2.3

[Vampirate]

you need to tank and develop him for 4 yrs which is a big commitment and its not even a guarantee just likely.
mobley is a superstar now at yr 1 huge difference he would have won a title on a top 10 team.
barnes is closer to suggs, cade tier i would say as of now.

I never said he's on the same tier as Mobley, but Barnes is definitely on a higher tier than Cade, Green and everyone else thus far and has easily surpassed Suggs.

In other words Mobley is clearly a tier all of himself but so is Barnes, it's just that Barnes is a clear tier below Mobley.

Forget the Mobley tier, in order for Cade and especially Suggs to get into Barnes tier as a player they have to start scoring in the high teens on average on a much higher efficiency than they've shown.

Cade can if he starts to gets hot from 3 and his A/TO keeps improving might but Suggs is even a clear tier below that of Cade imo.

Mobley looks transcendent, but it’s still early. I can’t imagine him not being a star if healthy, but I don’t assume anything until he stays healthy. His defense is already elite, but his offense is hit or miss. It’s almost a bonus if he can score a little.

I’m just kind of looking at Barnes as a stand-alone. Not comparing him to the others except I can tell what they will try to be or fail to be easier.

He’s been very good. I kind of question what he’ll be?

I think he’ll certainly be a solid rotation player who might be a borderline all star some day. I like a lot of things about him. Not his defense so far, and he’s been really reluctant to shoot 3s. But he’s strong and active and plays hard.

He’s just hard to picture as a final product. We will have to see. I feel like I know what the other guys are going to try to become, and look like at times, and with Barnes, I’m just unsure. When a kid isn’t shooting 3s and playing bad defense, yet isn’t a go to scorer, it’s hard to envision the final product.

I like his passing. His rebounds are good, but he wouldn’t get them if he was playing with an actual center. That said, he’s got something. He looks like a rotation guy already, which most rookies don’t. I don’t know what his ultimate skill will be. I know what scouts thought, but he’s kind of been the opposite. His offense has been good and defense a little struggle.

I agree, Mobley is pretty easy to project forwards at this point.

Green is going to be a scoring champion at some point probably.

Cade is gonna be an anchor for Detroit while hitting some clutch shot sin his career like Paul Pierce.

Suggs looks like a defensive specialist who needs to grow his offensive game.

Barnes is a complete mystery, his theoretical ceiling is in the stars but it's difficult to see what he can become because he was drafted so raw offensively but has made big strides even being a bad 3 point shooter still.

Some say Iggy, others say Scottie Pippen in terms of who they remind you of, maybe he goes lower than those 2, maybe higher.

Maybe he works hard enough to be the next Kawhi, or something else, or maybe he's just gonna be Draymond light?

I've always thought he was a mix of a Kawhi/Giannis personally although obviously he's nowhere close to those 2.

It'll be interesting to see moving forwards.

[LoveMyRaps]

Team Defensive Rating with Player On-Court:

Mobley: 99.5
Draymond: 101.0
Giannis: 99.0
George: 103.0
Turner: 101.2
Gobert: 102.9
Jokic: 98.9
Adebayo: 101.0
Embiid: 102.3
Horford: 102.8

Defensive On-Off:

Mobley: -9.0
Draymond: +5.6
Giannis: -14.9
George: +8.2
Turner: -9.4
Gobert: +0.9
Jokic: -15.7
Adebayo: -4.8
Embiid: -7.3
Horford: -2.3

Had me thinking he was first in these categories for a sec which blew my mind.
Realizes later it wasn't in order. Still very impressive nonetheless.

[NRSV]

Team Defensive Rating with Player On-Court:

Mobley: 99.5
Draymond: 101.0
Giannis: 99.0
George: 103.0
Turner: 101.2
Gobert: 102.9
Jokic: 98.9
Adebayo: 101.0
Embiid: 102.3
Horford: 102.8

Defensive On-Off:

Mobley: -9.0
Draymond: +5.6
Giannis: -14.9
George: +8.2
Turner: -9.4
Gobert: +0.9
Jokic: -15.7
Adebayo: -4.8
Embiid: -7.3
Horford: -2.3

These numbers are insane…

[srhcan]

Rookie Tracker through Nov. 27.

Difference between Mobley and Barnes is not that huge as some people would say. Barnes is still ahead of Mobley in points, rebounds, assists and steals. Mobley is ahead of Barnes in 2 point %, 3 point %, free throw %, blocks, turnovers and true shooting %.

If Barnes picks up his defense to be as good as he was at start of season then it will be very competitive.

[Kordic27]

Rookie Tracker through Nov. 27.

What stat is this sorted by?