Ben Simmons/Sixers/Is he getting fined? (updated)

[Nuntius]

Or you know... you've been bamboozled. It's pretty damn telling that he didn't go through the proper channels to ensure he doesn't get fined with his mental health excuse. The only reason why the 76ers are able to actually fine him with this mental health issues, is because he has refused to be transparent with the whole process in getting help.

He played pretty damn well in the first round against the Wizards

The NBPA is one of these proper channels, though. And when the Sixers asked to co-operate with a team psychologist, he did that as well (granted, he didn't do it right away, he delayed that).

From all the reports/articles I have read, he hasn't been transparent with the 76ers organization/medical staff. Therefore, they have continued to be able to fine him. You think that if he was doing everything correctly in regards to getting help and keeping his employer informed that he 76ers would just be able to continue do so?

Straight from the Ramona article: https://www.espn.com.au/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/33188431/the-specter-saga-haunts-ben-simmons-philadelphia-76ers

...But the goodwill didn't last long. Simmons refused the mental health services offered by the team, instead telling the Sixers he was seeing a mental health professional he'd found through the National Basketball Players Association but wasn't comfortable sharing details.

...He has worked out separately with his own group of trainers, according to sources close to Simmons. He has organized his own runs with local players. He has lifted weights at a local fitness club that's open to the general public. He has seen his own therapist but hasn't shared information about his treatment with the team. He's living in the Moorestown, New Jersey, house he put up for sale months ago.

Pretty damn revealing.

And if I was in Simmmons' place, I wouldn't share details with Philly's leaky organization/medical staff either. Do not forget that Philly has used these kind of details in the past as leverage against its players. See the Markelle Fultz saga.

[Nuntius]

The difference here is that I can directly respond to you about the presumption: The simple answer here is that I don't exactly know how my mental health would have been affected had I been bound to work at that place by a contract. Could I have a meltdown? Maybe. Could I just bottle it up inside and see what avenues I have at my disposal to get out of the contract? I suppose. There's a whole litany of things that could be decided. To make an assumption about me given that you don't know me any more than you think you know Simmons is pretty laughable. If you want to know something in MY specific case, all you need to do is ask. You have that luxury; however, with Simmons, all we can do is speculate.

I am sorry but I didn't make any kind of assumption. I did ask you whether that would have affected you differently, hence the question mark at the end of my very first sentence. I never claimed that I know anything about you or Simmons.

Edit: If it's the "I don't think that it would" part that you saw an assumption then I sincerely apologize for it. I didn't mean it as an assumption at all. That's just what I've heard mental health professionals say when it comes to mental health issues but since I'm not a professional, I shouldn't have added it in my post.

Simmons didn't air the bit about mental health until well after all of this came to light insofar as I recall. Had his mental health been as big a talking point as it has come to be known, it would have been at the forefront of the trade request. It wasn't.

Your timeline isn't accurate. Based on the NBPA, Simmons has been working with their mental health professionals ever since the summer and that was well before all the fines started. The fact that Simmons didn't tell the press about it in the summer doesn't mean anything. No one is forced to disclose whether they've sought mental health help or not.

Simmons is fine to REQUEST a trade privately with the team; he has zero leverage to demand one and doing so publicly, regardless of any diagnosis of mental illness or whatever, is only going to get him in trouble with the league and cause teams to be highly wary of him. Even if he does end up having a valid case, he should have handled the situation more rationally and thoughtfully as an adult given the repercussions.

Meh. Whatevs, man. It is what it is. Whoever gets him is going to have their hands full given I don't personally think it's going to end should he be traded somewhere else.

Sent from my VS996 using Tapatalk

Based on everything we know, he did request a trade privately around the same time he started seeking mental health help. That request wasn't met so this whole saga started. Again, I'm not saying that he is in the right or anything of that sort but the way that people have generally talked about his mental health is pretty abhorrent.

If your looking at it from that angle then his just free loading money from the team. I just,ve never heard such thing in sports over petty comments that was said to the media to be blown out of proportions. If he really does have mental illness from that he shouldn't play this sport.

Again, people seem to be forgetting the very serious family problems that Simmons was going through at the time. It's not immaterial to this.

[Nuntius]

Stop with the mental health BS. Look at the timeline. had nothing to do with mental health until he started losing money and that;s a fact.

Nope. The fact is that he first sought mental health help from the NBPA in the summer. The fines didn't start until September/October. So, you're wrong.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

He already got 50% of his salary, so he's not under immediate financial stress.
He's probably counting on settling this after a trade or going for an arbitration.

___
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[SelfishPlayer]

Yes, he's not just changed the NBA but all professional sports. I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about. This is the guy who co founded the sloan conference which has had drastic impact in all leagues and sports. He's completely reshaped the way every NBA team's back office functions. He's massively change the personnel in the league. He's shaped strategies for every single team in the league. He's changed scouting. His efforts have subsequently lead to companies being created to create data for the league which has even greater influenced the game.

No CHIP...

A common theme among some of the most influential and important people in sports.

He may be proof that analytics may be of a greater cost than they are worth being that his leadership hasn't produced a championship. For instance, all of the potential trades that he turned down for Ben Simmons. Wiggins and Garland could have been Sixers if Morey didn't try to fleece the Cavs and Warriors in the process ,,

[Childs]

“Bit in hindsight, Simmons feels Rivers and the Sixers could have done more, like show up at a well-known gym in the San Fernando Valley where he was training.”

Didn't he refuse them, when they sent a plane to him? Didn't he not answer their texts and messages?

[Flash4thewin]

He already got 50% of his salary, so he's not under immediate financial stress.
He's probably counting on settling this after a trade or going for an arbitration.

___
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He is toast if it goes to arbitration.

[dhsilv2]

No CHIP...

A common theme among some of the most influential and important people in sports.

He may be proof that analytics may be of a greater cost than they are worth being that his leadership hasn't produced a championship. For instance, all of the potential trades that he turned down for Ben Simmons. Wiggins and Garland could have been Sixers if Morey didn't try to fleece the Cavs and Warriors in the process ,,

Every single team now has an analytics department because of him. You're missing the forest looking at a tree man.

[HartfordWhalers]

He already got 50% of his salary, so he's not under immediate financial stress.
He's probably counting on settling this after a trade or going for an arbitration.

___
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I've seen 25%.

[MrBigShot]

Every aspect of this situation has been discussed to death at this point. I really hope Simmons ends up traded this season. Off the court issues aside he's a very good player, and Embiid deserves the best supporting cast he can get with the season he's having.

[Ballerhogger]

Read on Twitter

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[SelfishPlayer]

A common theme among some of the most influential and important people in sports.

He may be proof that analytics may be of a greater cost than they are worth being that his leadership hasn't produced a championship. For instance, all of the potential trades that he turned down for Ben Simmons. Wiggins and Garland could have been Sixers if Morey didn't try to fleece the Cavs and Warriors in the process ,,

Every single team now has an analytics department because of him. You're missing the forest looking at a tree man.

KISS principle...

[phanman]

The NBPA is one of these proper channels, though. And when the Sixers asked to co-operate with a team psychologist, he did that as well (granted, he didn't do it right away, he delayed that).

From all the reports/articles I have read, he hasn't been transparent with the 76ers organization/medical staff. Therefore, they have continued to be able to fine him. You think that if he was doing everything correctly in regards to getting help and keeping his employer informed that he 76ers would just be able to continue do so?

Straight from the Ramona article: https://www.espn.com.au/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/33188431/the-specter-saga-haunts-ben-simmons-philadelphia-76ers

...But the goodwill didn't last long. Simmons refused the mental health services offered by the team, instead telling the Sixers he was seeing a mental health professional he'd found through the National Basketball Players Association but wasn't comfortable sharing details.

...He has worked out separately with his own group of trainers, according to sources close to Simmons. He has organized his own runs with local players. He has lifted weights at a local fitness club that's open to the general public. He has seen his own therapist but hasn't shared information about his treatment with the team. He's living in the Moorestown, New Jersey, house he put up for sale months ago.

Pretty damn revealing.

And if I was in Simmmons' place, I wouldn't share details with Philly's leaky organization/medical staff either. Do not forget that Philly has used these kind of details in the past as leverage against its players. See the Markelle Fultz saga.

That is why he is losing pay cheques. You have an obligation to your employer/team to be transparent as to why your not with the team. What exactly did Philly do wrong with Fultz? They were as patient as can be with a former #1 overall pick that literally developed a rare condition that I'd bet 99% of people on this forum even knew what it was...Thoracic Outlet Syndrome. They shut him down after 4 games in his rookie campaign for like 75% of the season.

Were Doc/Embiid critical of Ben following his disastrously playoff showing? - Yes, but they've tried to make amends in the off-season and the beginning of this new one to no avail. I mean honestly, have we gotten so soft as a league/society that we can't even criticize a guy when has failed to live up to his expectations as a marquee player and super max player?

[GeorgeSears]

For this entire situation to turn out well, Ben Simmons needs to be fined for missing the games and the Sixers need to get a haul for him.

Morey is probably the smartest FO exec. He knows the importance of holding the line. He's also doing a massive favor to small/mid level market teams by not placating to Ben's wishes of sending him to a big market of his choice.

[CIN-C-STAR]

He already got 50% of his salary, so he's not under immediate financial stress.
He's probably counting on settling this after a trade or going for an arbitration.

___
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He is toast if it goes to arbitration.

Imagine losing your salary to charity for not honoring your contract, and then after the fact trying to recoup money from the charity?
If he does that then Klutch can proudly claim to be behind the worst PR disaster in basketball since The Decision, which I think was also Rich Paul's idea

[TheLand13]

So... here's a question. What happens when Ben Simmons DOES in fact get traded?

I mean... I can't imagine he's gained many fans during this time period. Forget Philly for a minute. There are a lot of people in the NBA fanbase who have clowned this dude for the way he's acted throughout this debacle. I can't help but think that every stadium he goes to and plays in, regardless of what team he's on, he's going to get booed anytime he touches the ball, no? I don't think it'll be to the extent of, say, LeBron when he first played in Cleveland in a Miami uniform, but if he's trying to go away from Philly in part to escape the negative backlash he'd get from his own fans, I hate to break it to him but that problem most likely won't be going away, at least not anytime soon. I'm sure the boos would die down eventually when people move on from this saga, but fans heckling him and booing him for the way he's been acting... that's going to be a reoccurring problem.

I don't see an endgame for Simmons here. I truly don't. His problem is just going to continue no matter where he goes. The only way he can truly fix this problem is if HE accepts things for what they are and plays through it. That would have happened by now if that were the case.

[Nuntius]

That is why he is losing pay cheques. You have an obligation to your employer/team to be transparent as to why your not with the team.

Sure. We'll see what happens with all that in the end.

What exactly did Philly do wrong with Fultz? They were as patient as can be with a former #1 overall pick that literally developed a rare condition that I'd bet 99% of people on this forum even knew what it was...Thoracic Outlet Syndrome. They shut him down after 4 games in his rookie campaign for like 75% of the season.

They pretty much did everything wrong with Fultz. They leaked the theory that he was injured in a motorcycle accident, they refused to accept the diagnosis provided by an independent third party and insisted that he had no physical injury while painting him as a nutcase. It was mismanagement 101.

Were Doc/Embiid critical of Ben following his disastrously playoff showing? - Yes, but they've tried to make amends in the off-season and the beginning of this new one to no avail. I mean honestly, have we gotten so soft as a league/society that we can't even criticize a guy when has failed to live up to his expectations as a marquee player and super max player?

Personally, I have no issue with what Doc and Embiid said after the playoff showing. In my opinion, Simmons' offensive issues have been a key detriment to Philly's success. They are a big reason why they haven't advanced past the second round. In hindsight, chances are that they should have traded Simmons away a couple of years ago (no way to know that at the time, though).

But all of that is irrelevant. My personal view of Simmons as a player doesn't matter. What matters is how Ben Simmons interpreted these comments and his team's lack of support (and I'm not talking about his on-court struggles, I'm talking about the lack of support for his family issues). I am definitely not the one to judge how Simmons or anyone else ought to feel.

[Mister Ze]

I’d love to be at Ben Simmons first game against Philly once he’s traded.

[Nate505]

I’d love to be at Ben Simmons first game against Philly once he’s traded.

He'll never play there. He's way too cowardly.

[MrBigShot]

So... here's a question. What happens when Ben Simmons DOES in fact get traded?

I mean... I can't imagine he's gained many fans during this time period. Forget Philly for a minute. There are a lot of people in the NBA fanbase who have clowned this dude for the way he's acted throughout this debacle. I can't help but think that every stadium he goes to and plays in, regardless of what team he's on, he's going to get booed anytime he touches the ball, no? I don't think it'll be to the extent of, say, LeBron when he first played in Cleveland in a Miami uniform, but if he's trying to go away from Philly in part to escape the negative backlash he'd get from his own fans, I hate to break it to him but that problem most likely won't be going away, at least not anytime soon. I'm sure the boos would die down eventually when people move on from this saga, but fans heckling him and booing him for the way he's been acting... that's going to be a reoccurring problem.

I don't see an endgame for Simmons here. I truly don't. His problem is just going to continue no matter where he goes. The only way he can truly fix this problem is if HE accepts things for what they are and plays through it. That would have happened by now if that were the case.

I honestly don't think any fan base other than philly will care enough that they'd boo him. LeBron joining Wade/Bosh in Miami was viewed much, much worse in the public eye than this ever will be. The MVP joining another MVP caliber player + a perennial all star through free agency was just unprecedented at the time.

In Philly though, he will get absolutely eviscerated though lol. I honestly would not be surprised if he chooses to sit his first game back to avoid the crowd.

Personally, I have no issue with what Doc and Embiid said after the playoff showing. In my opinion, Simmons' offensive issues have been a key detriment to Philly's success. They are a big reason why they haven't advanced past the second round. In hindsight, chances are that they should have traded Simmons away a couple of years ago (no way to know that at the time, though).

But all of that is irrelevant. My personal view of Simmons as a player doesn't matter. What matters is how Ben Simmons interpreted these comments and his team's lack of support (and I'm not talking about his on-court struggles, I'm talking about the lack of support for his family issues). I am definitely not the one to judge how Simmons or anyone else ought to feel.

That's pretty fascinating to me. I think what Doc and Embiid said is a classic example of what not to do as a leader. Criticizing your teammate to the media, and bringing attention to one particular play at the end, is a big mistake that will only create strife. They should have kept things behind closed doors. Simmons screwed up but that singular play didn't lose them the series. Thybulle missed FTs, Embiid had 8 turnovers (plus games with 8/24 and 4/20 shooting earlier in the series)